Question about plans for week 3&4 of PTS - Warden Charm & Rush of Agony

tomofhyrule · February 1

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Remove rush of agony and dark convergence completely and make Gravelord Colossus ultimate, shadow ultimate veil of blades, and arcanist ability displacement rune the only ultimates and [ability morph] in the entire game that can do a group wide pull. This reinforces class identities and re-institutes ultimate abilities as actual ultimate abilities that change the tide of battle. Not being cheapened and relegated to 5pc sets anyone can wear and abuse.

And yea the Volundrung ultimate as well but that's an obvious exception, don't think needs mentioning.

??

Neither of those are pulls.

They pull because of sets like Dark Convergence

MXVIIDREAM · February 1

Has there been any communication from any of the zos team on this at all?

BetweenMidgets · February 1

Please remember that is is the weekend. Temper expectations of a ZoS response. It may happen, or it may not until the official work week resumes.

I'd like to also agree with the sentiments about RoA and Charm needing to be re-assessed by ZoS.

Lord_Hev · February 1

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Remove rush of agony and dark convergence completely and make Gravelord Colossus ultimate, shadow ultimate veil of blades, and arcanist ability displacement rune the only ultimates and [ability morph] in the entire game that can do a group wide pull. This reinforces class identities and re-institutes ultimate abilities as actual ultimate abilities that change the tide of battle. Not being cheapened and relegated to 5pc sets anyone can wear and abuse.

And yea the Volundrung ultimate as well but that's an obvious exception, don't think needs mentioning.

??

Neither of those are pulls.

They pull because of sets like Dark Convergence

That's the point... I'm saying they SHOULD be the only things in the game that can pull lol

The necro refresh and nightblade refresh should rework those ultimates to have group pull built-in, and completely remove group pull sets from existence. Group pull should only be possible with ultimates, and one outlier ability morph.

xylena · February 1

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Group pull should only be possible with ultimates, and one outlier ability morph.

Yeah this. If players want AoE displacement that much, the small radius delayed Arc dot pull is fine, a bigger pull effect can go on an expensive class ult like Veil of Blades. Absolutely never attach a pull effect to burst damage. Do apply CC immunity. No more brainless i-win-buttons.

Displacement attached to a free off gcd gear proc is some of the worst PvP design I've ever seen. Spammable displacement like the DK chain in Vengeance is nearly as bad. Abject failure.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 3

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

It would be nice to get some sort of 'we've seen this' type post so that the community doesn't feel like it need to repost this (it's been mentioned for over 1 year so far with no acknowledgement)

Militan1404 · February 3

ATCWarhawk wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin what is the intent here? Warden Class Mastery is beyond overloaded and there has been countless feedback from the charm effect desyncing players or having them fall through the map. Any communication on balance in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin It would be really nice if the team are able to make some comment on this if possible. At this point I understand it wont change for this PTS but hopefully just a 'feedback seen we'll look into it' is possible?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

It would be nice to get some sort of 'we've seen this' type post so that the community doesn't feel like it need to repost this (it's been mentioned for over 1 year so far with no acknowledgement)

I think they just dont care, they have answerd in tons of other treads so if they cared they would have answerd by now..

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 3

Militan1404 wrote: »

ATCWarhawk wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin what is the intent here? Warden Class Mastery is beyond overloaded and there has been countless feedback from the charm effect desyncing players or having them fall through the map. Any communication on balance in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

ATCWarhawk wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin what is the intent here? Warden Class Mastery is beyond overloaded and there has been countless feedback from the charm effect desyncing players or having them fall through the map. Any communication on balance in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin It would be really nice if the team are able to make some comment on this if possible. At this point I understand it wont change for this PTS but hopefully just a 'feedback seen we'll look into it' is possible?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

It would be nice to get some sort of 'we've seen this' type post so that the community doesn't feel like it need to repost this (it's been mentioned for over 1 year so far with no acknowledgement)

I think they just dont care, they have answerd in tons of other treads so if they cared they would have answerd by now..

The forum isn't the main part of the job and they likely get a lot of notifications, however it would be nice to see a reply I agree

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · February 5

Hi everyone. We wanted to let you know we do this post and others like it (like this one), though we do acknowledge there are at least a couple potential bugs called out between the two, plus feedback. I'll head over to that other linked thread next. Thank you for your patience.

We're currently putting together the PTS Week 4 Summary, and while we want to include a note about this there, we also wanted to reply in this thread with the note now.

We have seen your bug reports, feedback, and general concerns about the Rush of Agony item set and Warden Charm script (and Charms in general). While these are not explicitly related to this PTS cycle and Update 49, we wanted to acknowledge that we do see your posts about these and are investigating the CC-related issues you’ve raised in a few forum discussion threads including this one and the other linked earlier in this post.

With the upcoming Warden class refresh (our next one), we will be looking at every facet of the class including the Warden Charm script. We do see your continued feedback about the Rush of Agony set as well and while we don't have any planned changes to it for Update 49, we are investigating the reported CC-related issues of getting pulled through environmental fixtures and getting stuck in terrain related to the item set and Warden Charm script (and all Charm effects.)

For Charm, one element that we're investigating is if there are collision-related bugs with certain areas of the environment or fixtures. That's where you can help. If you notice that you or your friends are getting stuck in certain fixtures and/or parts of the environment, sharing the location with us along with screenshots and/or video would be greatly appreciated. With terrain and fixture issues, for example, if they don't have proper collision or pathing, we can work with our art team to get those fixed.

Thanks again, and we hope this helps a little.

Radiate77 · February 5

You can get stuck in the first set of stairs leading into any of the Resource Towers circling a keep.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · February 5

Radiate77 wrote: »

You can get stuck in the first set of stairs leading into any of the Resource Towers circling a keep.

Thank you! This is after being hit with Charm? Or have you experienced it happening with other CC effects, too?

ArctosCethlenn · February 5

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

You can get stuck in the first set of stairs leading into any of the Resource Towers circling a keep.

Thank you! This is after being hit with Charm? Or have you experienced it happening with other CC effects, too?

Charm from either warden mastery, uncanny adoration, or faun's lark can drag you under terrain including those stairs, warden charm is just the most pervasive of the options as well as being aoe and unblockable.

Other ccs can still get you stuck in terrain if they're forced movement ccs though, such as javelin, meteor, destro scribe skill, mad tinkerer, or dragon leap. This is on top of those knockbacks/knockups sometimes desyncing players.

Radiate77 · February 5

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

You can get stuck in the first set of stairs leading into any of the Resource Towers circling a keep.

Thank you! This is after being hit with Charm? Or have you experienced it happening with other CC effects, too?

After being hit by the scribed skill, the charm will walk you into the ground, this can also happen when you get hit by a knockback into the same spot.

So to replicate, player 1 is in the tower with the charm skill, player 2 is at the bottom of the steps, player 1 shield throws player 2 to proc Warden Charm, player 2 starts walking towards tower steps and then phases through them.

Radiate77 · February 5

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I also want to highlight, that these issues are not exclusive to Cyrodiil, and are further pronounced within player homes.

Any positional displacement skill, or ground based AOEs completely ignore placed furniture, which is a huge problem when building arenas within homes. If this could be looked into, that would be an incredible improvement to housing.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 5

Thanks for the feedback @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Is there a reason that Charm specifically has the functionality of controlling the movement of your character - Functionality that was specifically taken away from NB Fear due to exactly the same bugs. Why wouldn't the team want to simply make charm also not 'move' the enemy.

Also the issue players are specifically complaining about with Rush of Agony is the combat rule breaking aspect of allowing a character to be pulled in and not applying CC immunity.

Turtle_Bot · February 6

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone. We wanted to let you know we do this post and others like it (like this one), though we do acknowledge there are at least a couple potential bugs called out between the two, plus feedback. I'll head over to that other linked thread next. Thank you for your patience.

We're currently putting together the PTS Week 4 Summary, and while we want to include a note about this there, we also wanted to reply in this thread with the note now.

We have seen your bug reports, feedback, and general concerns about the Rush of Agony item set and Warden Charm script (and Charms in general). While these are not explicitly related to this PTS cycle and Update 49, we wanted to acknowledge that we do see your posts about these and are investigating the CC-related issues you’ve raised in a few forum discussion threads including this one and the other linked earlier in this post.

With the upcoming Warden class refresh (our next one), we will be looking at every facet of the class including the Warden Charm script. We do see your continued feedback about the Rush of Agony set as well and while we don't have any planned changes to it for Update 49, we are investigating the reported CC-related issues of getting pulled through environmental fixtures and getting stuck in terrain related to the item set and Warden Charm script (and all Charm effects.)

For Charm, one element that we're investigating is if there are collision-related bugs with certain areas of the environment or fixtures. That's where you can help. If you notice that you or your friends are getting stuck in certain fixtures and/or parts of the environment, sharing the location with us along with screenshots and/or video would be greatly appreciated. With terrain and fixture issues, for example, if they don't have proper collision or pathing, we can work with our art team to get those fixed.

Thanks again, and we hope this helps a little.

Thanks for looking into these.

I do want to re-iterate @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO 's point about the Rush of Agony item set though, the main issue with this set is the fact that it doesn't apply CC immunity to anything it pulls (completely contrary to every single other pull effect in the game) allowing for "chain CC" that never feels good to face, especially since it is also an AoE on top of this (being AoE allows it to ignore things like dodge roll, which is usually the preferred method of escaping an area that is about to be very deadly to anyone still standing inside it, blocking or not).

There's plenty of other smaller balance issues with the set (high damage it does, extremely short cooldown, etc.) but fixing that one above issue by making it grant full CC immunity to anyone it pulls would solve the vast majority of the complaints about the set.

Uezok · February 6

The Charm is way more problematic than Rush of Agony which has counterplay.
You can survive getting pulled by rush of agony and it has a rather long Cooldown.

Charm straight up breaks your characters.
Me and my friends were doing thematic runs in Cyro the whole event and the only issues we had were: Ball groups(which we should look forward into finding a proper counterplay, like old Azureblight) and Warden Charm which put my friends and myself inside walls.

This is a game breaking bug that will cause issues once the IC teleport change gets implemented and the player stuck in the terrain doesn't have a recal consumable.

nightbringer1993 · February 6

This toxic warden charm plague has been one of the reasons why many players left cyro. It is too overpowered, exploited by trolls, and ignores CC immunity, and most importantly, it is buggy

This is why it is vital that the charm is removed PvP wise. And the IC teleport problem that I have mentioned in previous threads will only make it worst.

ZOS, if you do want to remove charm because you play warden, I will consider it unacceptable, especially when we know that some other classes are underperforming.