Remember when Talons was nerfed? I do.

Why can't DK have strong CC like other classes have?

It’s actually really strong lol

Petrify is unironically stronger now than it was before. They actually need to make it so you can dodge the application of the skill, because right now on the PTS you can just cast it on someone mid roll and guarantee they get hit by it every time - and since it's delayed, if you hit them with it you can now also guarantee you'll land the whip or whatever other burst skill/ult you want to use.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Red99 wrote: »

Dk need a proper stun skill for pvp, this new petrify is almost like sorcerer Rune Cage or arcanist Rune of Eldritch Horror and nobody use it

The big difference between Rune and Fossilize/Petrify is that Rune forces a block, not a dodge.

A stun that can be blocked is infinitely worse than a stun that can be dodged. Forcing a dodge is very powerful, as the target will eat any AoE ability.

A quick block tap also doesn't really pressure an opponent's stamina pool, while a dodge roll does.

Rune Cage ignores block, not dodge.

Eldrich ignores dodge, not block.

Old Petrify ignored both.

New one is more balanced like Rune Cage and Eldrich, which is understandably why OP is complaining, but considering all of the old CC's will be reworked, I'd say the new version is pretty damn good.

Frankly, I'd be happy to lose Rune Cage and Defensive Rune, Sorc has 8 hard CC's including ultimates, Streak, and Familiar. Streak is the most iconic, so I pray they find a way to keep that and rebalance it properly. At minimum, they'll probably slap on the 1s delay like these 3 abilities in question.

These CC for example are all designed well......but again we see them take back seats to poorly designed CC like offbalance which was designed with no clear telegraph or play/counterplay for the stun.

Same reasoning for things like charm.........people have trouble distinguishing the counterplay, even if you do see it, the area is so large chances are you can only prepare to cc break.........even so it works like old fear which was removed/changed several times because cc break was unresponsive and sometimes failed to work.........At the end of the day chances are you will be stuck in a wall.

Same reasoning for things like RoA where again the telegraphs were unclear and poorly done leading to abuse, frustration, and complaints.

So long as zos has poorly designed mechanics left, the more proper designed skills are going to SEEM like garbage and not worth it.

Previously, you couldn't really land anything against a person that has good reaction time when using petrify. They can just break free and dodge roll before you can land a hit. This same issue exists with other on demand stuns like incap too. Now since it has a delay, you can guarantee your burst will hit as long as they dont dodge it after 1 second. You can see how this makes it so much more stronger than before. And if it's the damage removal on fossilize that you dont like, any decent player will continue to use shattering rocks because the heal was always better than the immobilize because players will almost always dodge roll after breaking free making fossilize the worst morph in the majority of scenarios.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Frankly, I'd be happy to lose Rune Cage and Defensive Rune, Sorc has 8 hard CC's including ultimates, Streak, and Familiar. Streak is the most iconic, so I pray they find a way to keep that and rebalance it properly. At minimum, they'll probably slap on the 1s delay like these 3 abilities in question.

imo part of that is the visual clutter and brightness of the new DK skills (they look great, don't get me wrong) which will hide or limit the tells of fossilize being cast, which makes counterplay much harder.

Ive seen this same comment in like every thread now, all the new animations are way overblown on particle effects. They should focus on the actual character model movement for generic skills instead of fancy particles.

Then go and have overblown visually jarring particles and animations for CC skills and ultimates.

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It’s actually really strong lol

Yea so strong lol, this is literally rune cage a garbage skill that nobody use and someone says is stronger than the old undogeable and unblockable petrify

React wrote: »

They actually need to make it so you can dodge the application of the skill, because right now on the PTS you can just cast it on someone mid roll and guarantee they get hit by it every time - and since it's delayed, if you hit them with it you can now also guarantee you'll land the whip or whatever other burst skill/ult you want to use.

This is how burst combos should work? Hitting the stun perfectly mid roll like that isn't trivial, players don't just roll into open gcds. It gets you one big hit, but they have CC immunity by then. So unless a bunch of broken garbage proc sets go off, this is not a one shot.

While abstractly better for combos on paper than Old Petrify, OP is still right, there's good reason you don't see Rune Cage or Arc stun much. New Petrify is significantly worse on dot pressure builds that want to stun exactly when pressure builds highest.

On pre-subclass pure dot DK, Thrive in Chaos into Shattering Rocks was my best finisher. That is too unreliable now, so I would continue to be better served subclassing Streak or Jav. Old Petrify did NOT lend itself to one shots, so I'm not sure what play needed counter here.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Red99 wrote: »

Dk need a proper stun skill for pvp, this new petrify is almost like sorcerer Rune Cage or arcanist Rune of Eldritch Horror and nobody use it

The big difference between Rune and Fossilize/Petrify is that Rune forces a block, not a dodge.

A stun that can be blocked is infinitely worse than a stun that can be dodged. Forcing a dodge is very powerful, as the target will eat any AoE ability.

A quick block tap also doesn't really pressure an opponent's stamina pool, while a dodge roll does.

Rune Cage ignores block, not dodge.

Eldrich ignores dodge, not block.

Old Petrify ignored both.

New one is more balanced like Rune Cage and Eldrich, which is understandably why OP is complaining, but considering all of the old CC's will be reworked, I'd say the new version is pretty damn good.

Frankly, I'd be happy to lose Rune Cage and Defensive Rune, Sorc has 8 hard CC's including ultimates, Streak, and Familiar. Streak is the most iconic, so I pray they find a way to keep that and rebalance it properly. At minimum, they'll probably slap on the 1s delay like these 3 abilities in question.

I was referring to Arcanist Rune, not Rune Cage. Rune Cage's real issue is that it competes with Streak, one of the best stuns in the game.

Well streak is its own set of problems not to derail cuz im sure we will see more of this when sorc's patch comes. I think they should just follow the vengeance concept of making streak only do an aoe circle at the end where it stuns and does damage. So now its a highcost situational skillshot instead of a one click wonder. I would much rather have streak do the stun at the end and then revert BoL to do the stun at the beginning like it used to. This way now you have to choose between an engagement skill and a disengagement version. Then move the snare removal to boundless or something where it is more comparable to skills like wings or rats.

We def should be designing more CC mechanics to have proper telegraphs and counterplay like rune cage instead of the slop we see with things like offbalance or old petrify which dont have telegraphs or counterplay other than "be immune idiot lol"

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Rune Cage is not only competing with Streak, but it has one of the most obvious tells/counterplay in the game, spawning giant distinct purple crystals around it's target that then visually animate the delay until it actually stuns the target.

Rune Cage also has to stun for it's full duration just to get the damage proc. Both morphs of Petrify get their secondary effects no matter what, even if the target breaks free of the stun.

Rune Cage is not only competing against such a strong option in Streak, but even if Streak didn't exist, Rune Cage still wouldn't be used due to how bad/outdated it is.

Yeah also good to point out how rune cage has a telegraph ON the character vs some incoming environmental hazard.

Like compare javelin vs rune cage. Javelin for a good player can be dodged (granted a decade of blocking it is annoying to fix muscle memory). Really the telegraph needs to be seen way off in the distance and dodged within the travel distance. Rune cage is placed over the receiver's character and then has the duration before it has to be counterplayed. IMO javelin could be slightly slower because it is not directly on the character and has to be seen during travel. Rune cage on the other hand could be sped up slightly because it is actually seen easily.

You could probably fix things like ROA or charm this way too. If you had an effect that goes onto the receiving player character it is much easier to make counterplay noticed. For instance with RoA you would make it shoot out chains that tether to players, then you have a 1 sec period to block or cc break the chain off before being pulled. Instead we have some disjointed ground effect that you have to hope you are looking at it and can see the animation to know what is going on.