[Suggestion] Weaving should be removed

Okamu · January 27

Hi

This is not a bait title and I'm not looking to make people angry with the title or anything, I just genuinely think that Weaving should be removed from the game.

The game has a lot of very nice and well designed abilities, each with their own colors and special effects and the new 2H abilities look great too, but all that creativity and design is just hidden by the weaving mechanic making every battle look so rushed and desperate, a constant mashing of buttons that just don't look visually appealing at all and, imo, just adds an extra layer of unnecessary technicality to the game.

Yes, I know some people like it. Yes, I know there are build that do little to no weaving. Yes, I know it is a mechanic that has been present for years and some people have mastered it. Yes, I know there is timing involved but I stand by what I say: the game can live without it.

Spells, dmg values and passives that interact with the mechanic by generating resources or just improving your damage should be revised instead to compensate for a possible removal of the mechanic.

I honestly believe it would create a better state of the game, more simple and new-player friendly. Not necessarily more easy, I doubt removing weaving would make the game easier because there are boss mechanics and elements that you still need to master to beat a content, but at least not having weaving would be 1 less thing to worry about and you'd focus more on your abilities instead.

Light and heavy attacks would still exist of course, but that sneaking animation in between spells shouldn't.

Thanks.

imPDA · January 27

No. Thanks.

Renato90085 · January 28

honest, you can try now
we've try that before in nude normal trial,but most guild member feel this more stiff than weave,because you need waiting GCD over,in pvp maybe will more boring
also,if delete weave,light attack not need reason to exist

Okamu · January 28

Renato90085 wrote: »

honest, you can try now
we've try that before in nude normal trial,but most guild member feel this more stiff than weave,because you need waiting GCD over,in pvp maybe will more boring
also,if delete weave,light attack not need reason to exist

Maybe they could adjust the cooldowns in return so they are a bit more spammable to compensate the removal of weaving and downtime due to the GCDs. Also, they could keep light and heavy attacks because there is a glyph system in the game, maybe you could still spam those attacks but just not in between spells like atm and cutting the animations short, you could be still able to proc poison or get resources back through them. Or just rework light and heavy attacks entirely or make them their own type of combat.

I think there are ways to keep light and heavy attacks even if weaving got removed from the game and I feel like the "stiff" feeling comes from being used to weaving for years so not having it would make combats feel more slower than before I guess. It'd just be a matter of adapting

Renato90085 · January 28

Okamu wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

honest, you can try now
we've try that before in nude normal trial,but most guild member feel this more stiff than weave,because you need waiting GCD over,in pvp maybe will more boring
also,if delete weave,light attack not need reason to exist

Maybe they could adjust the cooldowns in return so they are a bit more spammable to compensate the removal of weaving and downtime due to the GCDs. Also, they could keep light and heavy attacks because there is a glyph system in the game, maybe you could still spam those attacks but just not in between spells like atm and cutting the animations short, you could be still able to proc poison or get resources back through them. Or just rework light and heavy attacks entirely or make them their own type of combat.

I think there are ways to keep light and heavy attacks even if weaving got removed from the game and I feel like the "stiff" feeling comes from being used to weaving for years so not having it would make combats feel more slower than before I guess. It'd just be a matter of adapting

This is not enough. delete weave just mean lengthen all combat or you just from weave lightattack to weave more spamblade/bash,Zos need change manything here
About my guild member,they all join game last 1-3 year when Zos add Chinese in game(so they all beginners in low cpm beam or one bar sorc meta),most never don't know how do good weave but sill feel stiff,I don't think it about adapting
and nope,it just your feel,if Zos delete weave,no body have any reason to light attack anymore,it will be a wasteful GCD thing ,if you need ult buff or stam/magic,just heavy attack.glyph can from skill
now lightattack in best weave(every skill have light attack) only 7-10%dps,ppl still weave just because Dps need get ult point buff,consider now only needs to be lightlattacked every 10 seconds(or block/dodge dmg)to get buff, and meta light attack only 0.01%dps .It doesn't matter at all for beginners..
also ,why noone feedback delete cast skill can drink pot/bash/block/roll too
they are samething(in 1GCD do other thing to have advantage,in high rank is necessary to do)

Okamu · January 29

Renato90085 wrote: »

Okamu wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

honest, you can try now
we've try that before in nude normal trial,but most guild member feel this more stiff than weave,because you need waiting GCD over,in pvp maybe will more boring
also,if delete weave,light attack not need reason to exist

Maybe they could adjust the cooldowns in return so they are a bit more spammable to compensate the removal of weaving and downtime due to the GCDs. Also, they could keep light and heavy attacks because there is a glyph system in the game, maybe you could still spam those attacks but just not in between spells like atm and cutting the animations short, you could be still able to proc poison or get resources back through them. Or just rework light and heavy attacks entirely or make them their own type of combat.

I think there are ways to keep light and heavy attacks even if weaving got removed from the game and I feel like the "stiff" feeling comes from being used to weaving for years so not having it would make combats feel more slower than before I guess. It'd just be a matter of adapting

This is not enough. delete weave just mean lengthen all combat or you just from weave lightattack to weave more spamblade/bash,Zos need change manything here
About my guild member,they all join game last 1-3 year when Zos add Chinese in game(so they all beginners in low cpm beam or one bar sorc meta),most never don't know how do good weave but sill feel stiff,I don't think it about adapting
and nope,it just your feel,if Zos delete weave,no body have any reason to light attack anymore,it will be a wasteful GCD thing ,if you need ult buff or stam/magic,just heavy attack.glyph can from skill
now lightattack in best weave(every skill have light attack) only 7-10%dps,ppl still weave just because Dps need get ult point buff,consider now only needs to be lightlattacked every 10 seconds(or block/dodge dmg)to get buff, and meta light attack only 0.01%dps .It doesn't matter at all for beginners..
also ,why noone feedback delete cast skill can drink pot/bash/block/roll too
they are samething(in 1GCD do other thing to have advantage,in high rank is necessary to do)

All I'm saying is that everything can be balanced with the right conditions. Light and Heavy attacks could be reworked entirely or just change the way they gather resources back, GCDs could be reduced a bit to lower the downtime between abilities, damage values could be adjusted to compensate for the lack of weaving.

As players, we can only guess and theorize about possible solutions, but it's up to devs to decide how to compensate the values and adjust the mechanics so it is a seamless transition. The rest is just a matter of adapting. It can be done in a good way.

El_Borracho · January 29

No thank you. If you don't want to weave, run an HA sorc or an Arcanist where the LA is only there to build Ultimate. LA weaving, whether it be a feature or an animation cancelling bug that never went away, is a major source of damage in both PVE and PVP.

albertberku · January 29

Well, "weaving" was probably unintended anyway, and a mistake in the gameplay code. If ESO players ever play any other video game, they may notice this. So many broken elements in the combat gameplay of ESO, playerbase believes this "combat gameplay" is what makes ESO combat special. ESO combat left special because other games fix their combat gameplay when there was need for it. Here playerbase is rioting when there is any discussion about it.

Okamu · January 29

El_Borracho wrote: »

No thank you. If you don't want to weave, run an HA sorc or an Arcanist where the LA is only there to build Ultimate. LA weaving, whether it be a feature or an animation cancelling bug that never went away, is a major source of damage in both PVE and PVP.

Hence, why I propose possible fixes to compensate the lack of damage if Weaving gets removed from the game. There are ways remove it while keeping the spirit alive, PvE and pvp interesting and maintain the dmg output. I'm not saying what I propose are the ultimate solutions because that's up to the devs based on their data, but I can theorize.

albertberku wrote: »

Well, "weaving" was probably unintended anyway, and a mistake in the gameplay code. If ESO players ever play any other video game, they may notice this. So many broken elements in the combat gameplay of ESO, playerbase believes this "combat gameplay" is what makes ESO combat special. ESO combat left special because other games fix their combat gameplay when there was need for it. Here playerbase is rioting when there is any discussion about it.

I also don't feel like it is a refined mechanic. Idk if either it was always intended or not but I agree with what you say about it not being the essence of the combat or what makes ESO special. There could be better systems that could look and feel better than weaving. Removing it wouldn't be the end of the game, just an improvement on the gameplay with a more accessible and fluid combat.

And yeah, it would be cool if some people in the community were more open about talking about it without being angry because a good portion of the playersbase dislike the mechanic too. Not everyone enjoys it and no, the answer is not using a set that dissuades you from weaving or playing other game, ESO is not all about weaving.

dehzr · January 29

Okamu wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

No thank you. If you don't want to weave, run an HA sorc or an Arcanist where the LA is only there to build Ultimate. LA weaving, whether it be a feature or an animation cancelling bug that never went away, is a major source of damage in both PVE and PVP.

Hence, why I propose possible fixes to compensate the lack of damage if Weaving gets removed from the game. There are ways remove it while keeping the spirit alive, PvE and pvp interesting and maintain the dmg output. I'm not saying what I propose are the ultimate solutions because that's up to the devs based on their data, but I can theorize.

albertberku wrote: »

Well, "weaving" was probably unintended anyway, and a mistake in the gameplay code. If ESO players ever play any other video game, they may notice this. So many broken elements in the combat gameplay of ESO, playerbase believes this "combat gameplay" is what makes ESO combat special. ESO combat left special because other games fix their combat gameplay when there was need for it. Here playerbase is rioting when there is any discussion about it.

I also don't feel like it is a refined mechanic. Idk if either it was always intended or not but I agree with what you say about it not being the essence of the combat or what makes ESO special. There could be better systems that could look and feel better than weaving. Removing it wouldn't be the end of the game, just an improvement on the gameplay with a more accessible and fluid combat.

And yeah, it would be cool if some people in the community were more open about talking about it without being angry because a good portion of the playersbase dislike the mechanic too. Not everyone enjoys it and no, the answer is not using a set that dissuades you from weaving or playing other game, ESO is not all about weaving.

Then don't weave, who cares? Why take weaving away from those that want to weave? Play how you want.

Lucasl402 · January 29

Weaving is an integral part of the combat system in ESO. If you don't want to weave then build a beam machine meta and you don't have to worry about it.

Okamu · January 29

dehzr wrote: »

Okamu wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

No thank you. If you don't want to weave, run an HA sorc or an Arcanist where the LA is only there to build Ultimate. LA weaving, whether it be a feature or an animation cancelling bug that never went away, is a major source of damage in both PVE and PVP.

Hence, why I propose possible fixes to compensate the lack of damage if Weaving gets removed from the game. There are ways remove it while keeping the spirit alive, PvE and pvp interesting and maintain the dmg output. I'm not saying what I propose are the ultimate solutions because that's up to the devs based on their data, but I can theorize.

albertberku wrote: »

Well, "weaving" was probably unintended anyway, and a mistake in the gameplay code. If ESO players ever play any other video game, they may notice this. So many broken elements in the combat gameplay of ESO, playerbase believes this "combat gameplay" is what makes ESO combat special. ESO combat left special because other games fix their combat gameplay when there was need for it. Here playerbase is rioting when there is any discussion about it.

I also don't feel like it is a refined mechanic. Idk if either it was always intended or not but I agree with what you say about it not being the essence of the combat or what makes ESO special. There could be better systems that could look and feel better than weaving. Removing it wouldn't be the end of the game, just an improvement on the gameplay with a more accessible and fluid combat.

And yeah, it would be cool if some people in the community were more open about talking about it without being angry because a good portion of the playersbase dislike the mechanic too. Not everyone enjoys it and no, the answer is not using a set that dissuades you from weaving or playing other game, ESO is not all about weaving.

Then don't weave, who cares? Why take weaving away from those that want to weave? Play how you want.

Not the same as reworking the combat around a system that doesn't include weaving though.

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Weaving is an integral part of the combat system in ESO. If you don't want to weave then build a beam machine meta and you don't have to worry about it.

Some people just got used to it, might be integral in the current state of the game but definitely not indispensable to a point where it can't be theorized/suggested it's possible removal. The game can work perfectly without weaving as long as other areas are compensated to keep the values similar to what players can reach at the moment

dehzr · January 29

Okamu wrote: »

dehzr wrote: »

Okamu wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

No thank you. If you don't want to weave, run an HA sorc or an Arcanist where the LA is only there to build Ultimate. LA weaving, whether it be a feature or an animation cancelling bug that never went away, is a major source of damage in both PVE and PVP.

Hence, why I propose possible fixes to compensate the lack of damage if Weaving gets removed from the game. There are ways remove it while keeping the spirit alive, PvE and pvp interesting and maintain the dmg output. I'm not saying what I propose are the ultimate solutions because that's up to the devs based on their data, but I can theorize.

albertberku wrote: »

Well, "weaving" was probably unintended anyway, and a mistake in the gameplay code. If ESO players ever play any other video game, they may notice this. So many broken elements in the combat gameplay of ESO, playerbase believes this "combat gameplay" is what makes ESO combat special. ESO combat left special because other games fix their combat gameplay when there was need for it. Here playerbase is rioting when there is any discussion about it.

I also don't feel like it is a refined mechanic. Idk if either it was always intended or not but I agree with what you say about it not being the essence of the combat or what makes ESO special. There could be better systems that could look and feel better than weaving. Removing it wouldn't be the end of the game, just an improvement on the gameplay with a more accessible and fluid combat.

And yeah, it would be cool if some people in the community were more open about talking about it without being angry because a good portion of the playersbase dislike the mechanic too. Not everyone enjoys it and no, the answer is not using a set that dissuades you from weaving or playing other game, ESO is not all about weaving.

Then don't weave, who cares? Why take weaving away from those that want to weave? Play how you want.

Not the same as reworking the combat around a system that doesn't include weaving though.

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Weaving is an integral part of the combat system in ESO. If you don't want to weave then build a beam machine meta and you don't have to worry about it.

Some people just got used to it, might be integral in the current state of the game but definitely not indispensable to a point where it can't be theorized/suggested it's possible removal. The game can work perfectly without weaving as long as other areas are compensated to keep the values similar to what players can reach at the moment

I like weaving, keeps me frosty and is fun and easy to do. May I ask what the end goal is? To do more damage or to make the game feel more fluid? Just trying to better understand your position.

ViggyBoi · January 29

You can just... not do it if you dont want to.

ESO_Nightingale · January 30

No

Nord_Raseri · January 30

How about

No

Neatle · January 30

The game would feel even more clunky and restrictive since abilities are locked behind a static global cooldown.
Right now, ESO's combat is built around light attack weaving to fill the gaps created by a static 1 second global cooldown that is triggered after using any ability, during that window you can't cast another ability, regardless of the ability's animation length and because that cooldown is fixed and affects all skills equally, removing weaving would leave players frequently locked out of actions, unable to do anything meaningful while waiting for the GCD to expire. It's a systemic issue.

Also in ESO, unlike other MMORPGs, global cooldown can't be reduced or influenced by stats. Without weaving to offset that downtime, combat would feel slower, heavier, and far less responsive.

If abilities instead respected their own animation timing, the system would feel much smoother but implementing that would require significant changes.

I'm not opposed to changing the system but doing so would require major structural changes such as reworking the global cooldown model and/or introducing stats like cooldown reduction or attack speed to make ESO's combat fast-paced and interactive and responsive, which is, in my opinion, how it was originally intended to be designed.

Attorneyatlawl · January 30

Weaving is not only fun, but it's also essential for combat to feel smooth. In 2013 beta I discovered it within 5 minutes of gameplay because it was so intuitive.

They've nerfed it a lot anyway, and it's unnecessary in most situations (except maxing damage in pvp when not blocking, and score pushing in trials). It looks like any other mmo game, nothing bad about it.

Renato90085 · January 30

Okamu wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

Okamu wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

honest, you can try now
we've try that before in nude normal trial,but most guild member feel this more stiff than weave,because you need waiting GCD over,in pvp maybe will more boring
also,if delete weave,light attack not need reason to exist

Maybe they could adjust the cooldowns in return so they are a bit more spammable to compensate the removal of weaving and downtime due to the GCDs. Also, they could keep light and heavy attacks because there is a glyph system in the game, maybe you could still spam those attacks but just not in between spells like atm and cutting the animations short, you could be still able to proc poison or get resources back through them. Or just rework light and heavy attacks entirely or make them their own type of combat.

I think there are ways to keep light and heavy attacks even if weaving got removed from the game and I feel like the "stiff" feeling comes from being used to weaving for years so not having it would make combats feel more slower than before I guess. It'd just be a matter of adapting

This is not enough. delete weave just mean lengthen all combat or you just from weave lightattack to weave more spamblade/bash,Zos need change manything here
About my guild member,they all join game last 1-3 year when Zos add Chinese in game(so they all beginners in low cpm beam or one bar sorc meta),most never don't know how do good weave but sill feel stiff,I don't think it about adapting
and nope,it just your feel,if Zos delete weave,no body have any reason to light attack anymore,it will be a wasteful GCD thing ,if you need ult buff or stam/magic,just heavy attack.glyph can from skill
now lightattack in best weave(every skill have light attack) only 7-10%dps,ppl still weave just because Dps need get ult point buff,consider now only needs to be lightlattacked every 10 seconds(or block/dodge dmg)to get buff, and meta light attack only 0.01%dps .It doesn't matter at all for beginners..
also ,why noone feedback delete cast skill can drink pot/bash/block/roll too
they are samething(in 1GCD do other thing to have advantage,in high rank is necessary to do)

All I'm saying is that everything can be balanced with the right conditions. Light and Heavy attacks could be reworked entirely or just change the way they gather resources back, GCDs could be reduced a bit to lower the downtime between abilities, damage values could be adjusted to compensate for the lack of weaving.

As players, we can only guess and theorize about possible solutions, but it's up to devs to decide how to compensate the values and adjust the mechanics so it is a seamless transition. The rest is just a matter of adapting. It can be done in a good way.

The problem is that it's unnecessary..
as i say,the weave in last 3 year really unimportant,the nerfed 3 time,so dps part very low,and weave set nerfed( rip rele),zos every year add new heavy attack build and beam(pts new dk flame) It was their way to the weave better gap problem,you think must to do weave,just in old patch they to strong ,so weave is compulsory in 2018
and new molten weapons(dk skill) have weave mech,their want weave and low cpm build coexist .
my guild member join game maybe 3 year ,they weave really bad,not like me(8year) so yes,i am a high cpm player,but they still have most trial trifecta with me too, the thing stop them in pvp be god or finish more hard trial trifecta never is weave.
To be honest,weave only important in last 5 new trial trifecta in score push, runing Huntsman's Warmask,and nb grim focus
so what reason for you think you and new beginners must need to learn/do this?

Necrotech_Master · January 30

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

No

this

im used to weaving, but prefer less "weaving intense" builds like arcanist and works fine for me

there are plenty of options in the game that use less weaving already, your not "forced" to do it

Oblivion_Protocol · January 30

albertberku wrote: »

Well, "weaving" was probably unintended anyway, and a mistake in the gameplay code. If ESO players ever play any other video game, they may notice this. So many broken elements in the combat gameplay of ESO, playerbase believes this "combat gameplay" is what makes ESO combat special. ESO combat left special because other games fix their combat gameplay when there was need for it. Here playerbase is rioting when there is any discussion about it.

Weaving was initially unintentional. However, the devs discovered it and purposefully left it in the game. One of the loading screen tips tells players that it exists.

albertberku · January 30

I would bet that they discovered it very early and actually planned to fix it but needed development ressources for the more urgent changes since it was very early in the game cycle. And they just couldnt return to it for a while, and when they returned to fix it, it was already too late since the playerbase was already adapted to it. And they just promoted it as a "feature" instead. I would bet money on it that this is actually the reason why ESO has weaving in its combat gameplay currently.

JBNimble · January 31

Completely reworking the combat system would mayyybe take some more work than the devs are willing to invest. And will p* off a large portion of players on the way.
Simply cutting out a core mechanic, intended or not (the cheap "solution", yay!), would just break it... well more. And will p* off a large portion of players, surprise.
A new horse is too expensive, so deal with the three-legged one instead of amputing another leg. It would walk on two legs, put on pants, get a lawyer and demand compensation.
What I'm saying is I'm disinclined to aquiesce.