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U49 PTS DK Healing Skills Targeting

ickypiggy
ickypiggy
Soul Shriven
Hello, this is my first time writing anything on forum, and I would like to share some thoughts regarding the new DK changes on pts U49, particularly those that involve healing and buffs related to it.

As a player who has mainly played the healer/supportive role in 12-man raids for several years, I have some frustrations towards how healing abilities work in this game. It has come to our realization that players get assigned healing priority based on how early they arrive in "chunks" of world space. We came up with the nickname "chunk" to describe what are typically 5k by 5k world unit squares which are arbitrarily laid out in the game. Not all "chunks" in a zone are these perfect squares though, e.g. a bridge or a hallway can be a chunk of its own. In situations where players are full on health, the first 6 players who enter a chunk first will always be the ones the healing ticks select. This applies to majority of the multi-target healing skills. As for situations where some players are injured, these AoE over time healing skills will target the 6 most injured players on the first tick, and lock onto them for the remainder of the duration. So there we have our dilemma: Most healing skills will target the same 6 players, and the buffs that are applied through healing will only go to these 6 targets.

As a result, the buffs that get applied to players when they receive healing ticks, are almost impossible to maintain on everyone. (Eg. Minor berserk that comes from Combat Prayer, Minor heroism that comes from Fire Keeper, Minor Courage that comes from Blood of the Elder Dragon). In order for a raid group to rely on these skills to provide these sought-after buffs, raid group will have to be highly disciplined, to constantly be in 2 groups of 6, so their supports can aim and shift these ground targeting healing skills back and forth among the groups, or run far enough to outrange 1 group follow by running to the opposite direction to outrange yet another group. These methods are highly unreliable (some more than others) and impossible for less experienced groups. As a result, players will simply abandon these skills as a source to provide said buffs and seek for simpler and more reliable options. I think I can quite confidently say that, the newly changed Fire Keeper and Blood of the Elder Dragon, will NOT be the skills of choice to provide Minor Heroism and Minor Courage in a raid environment. At least, no groups will have their players pick up a skill line just for these skills. In stead, people will go back to using expensive heroism potions, and skills that are guaranteed to provide Minor Courage to everyone like Banner Bearer. Another good example is the change to Zenas' Empowering Disc to provide minor courage to only 6 made Curative Runeforms drop from a must-have skill line into one that is rarely used. If ZOS intends that these long-forgotten skills and skill lines can see the light of day again, the targeting of these skills needs to be redesigned.

Last but not least, I hope that the targeting of AOE healing over time skills can be changed to smart target every tick (just like Illustrious healing), because watching your allies dying and not getting healed despite standing in your healing circles, is every healer's nightmare T.T
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Thanks for writing - funny how the game works.
    Rest in Peace:
    The Dragonknight
    2014-2025

    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • Jestir
    Jestir
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    What is being said by OP is incredibly important to making these class reworks actually land for supports

    You can add all the names buffs you want but they are worthless if they dont properly hit all the players in a group
  • MSattrtand
    MSattrtand
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    Just for folks to understand the absurdity of the situation with poor targeting:

    Illustrious Healing has smart targeting. Healing Springs has stupid targeting. That's two morphs of one skill; they do almost the same, but they have different targeting for no reason.

    There's a chance that it was silently fixed in some patch, but I doubt it.
  • Emeratis
    Emeratis
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    This has been a pain point for years and I hope it's fixed because it has made healing more clunky and frustrating than it needs to be. As mentioned above, the springs vs illustrious problem means one morph is essentially dead for those who know about it, but you often see many people not knowing about it and then wondering why their heals are not working how they should.

    Supports deserve QOL for their abilities and to feel like they function properly and in a rewarding manner. As I mentioned before, dk healer was one of my favorite healer builds and I was happy to see a lot of support given to it in the dk overhaul but after trying out those heals last night in the Opulent Ordeal and seeing the same problems with other heals that have negatively impacted other heals, I've been frustrated. Most of the changes and fixes after the initial dk overhaul in week 1 have been dps centric. It would be tragic for dk healer to finally get some balancing love only for it to be ruined by the same heal and buff targeting problems we've had for years.

    Can we please get at least an acknowledgement we can see this addressed? I am very much aware that due to the problem being bigger than just dk and affecting many other heals in the game that it might take longer than this cycle to fix.
  • isiiimode
    isiiimode
    Soul Shriven
    thanks to icky for all the work she does!
    this post deserves big attention
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    How does this issue impact something like the second boss of OC hm?
    Rest in Peace:
    The Dragonknight
    2014-2025

    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • Treeshka
    Treeshka
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    How does this issue impact something like the second boss of OC hm?

    Most groups place the healers in a way that their abilities only target no more than 6 player during curse phases. Some groups also utilize Soul Siphon.
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    Treeshka wrote: »
    How does this issue impact something like the second boss of OC hm?

    Most groups place the healers in a way that their abilities only target no more than 6 player during curse phases. Some groups also utilize Soul Siphon.

    Which is an intelligent adaptation to a, frankly, dumb situation that is created by the flawed mechanics of healing. Mechanics that should 1000% be improved to be more player-friendly and then better communicated (or really... communicated at all...) to the players.

    Big agreement with this thread and its important message.

  • Reginald_leBlem
    Reginald_leBlem
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    Healer Haven and their test crew out here doing the Lords work, thank you
  • Yudo
    Yudo
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    Yes also noticed this with scribing skills.
    These skills can change target but it requires you to first drop the heal/buff, at which point it will select new targets IF lowest health targets. Otherwise it still defaults to the same ones.

    But was it not like this that PA healers could recast vigor, or double tap combat prayer to apply to every target or these also no longer work in smart way?
  • Admiral_Schneider
    Yudo wrote: »
    But was it not like this that PA healers could recast vigor, or double tap combat prayer to apply to every target or these also no longer work in smart way?

    This is also really funny. PA itself was reworked years ago to be smart, but Vigor is not. Meaning you will recast Vigor and can give the same 6 players Vigor 2 times, but the PA still to 12 players. Combat Prayer was never smart in the first place as it follows the rules described above.
    Tank for passion. Tank for love. Tank for life.
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
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    Healing and support in eso would do wonders if they got rid of smarthealing on 90% of skills and designed without it. Not every skill needs to be a smartheal. People already find healing boring innately, smarthealing doing all the work for you certainly doesn't help.

    The problem is for 10 years the game has been designed this way, so now we are stuck with boss fights where the method is just balling up the group in one spot and let smartheals go Brrrrrrrr.
    I only use insightful
    BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
    PvP needs more incentives, even simple purple/gold mats would suffice.
  • ickypiggy
    ickypiggy
    Soul Shriven
    Saw the upcoming fix on Hearth Fire's targeting :D:D Extremely exciting news. Thanks so much!!!!

    Here's a list of ground-targeted (non-sticky), area-of-effect, healing over time skills that we have tested in the past, which have the same bugged targeting as Hearth Fire before getting fixed (In other words, these skills will target the 6 most injured players without ever swapping targets for the entirety of their duration):

    - Healing Spring morph
    - Refreshing Path
    - Enduring Undeath
    - Renewing Undeath
    - Extended Ritual
    - Budding Seeds
    - Reconstructive Domain
    - Ring of Preservation
    - Energy Orb

    I forgot to check some unmorphed version of skills, like Grand Healing and Life amid Death.
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