Quest Camping in PvP Zones

Vulkunne · January 28

Justosay wrote: »

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

Get your resistances and buffs up, use detection pots. L2p

This is very stupid advice. No potions, buffs, or detection actions will help. Regardless of them, you'll still get ganked or killed. To avoid this, you must learn everything about PvP (builds, tactics, etc.) and practice.
If you don't want to do this you have two options:
1) Get killed and return (think of it as a sudden loss of connection to the server) to do whatever you're doing. Believe me, they'll stop killing you very quickly because they're not interested in killing you if you ignore them.
2) Take a scout mission from the board. There are many ways to move stealthily at a decent speed and you don't need to run back (use the queue to IC in Cyrodiil, then the queue in Cyrodiil).

My wish to the devs is to add to game something like "PvP crafting" to give players who prefer PvE the opportunity to get tickets from this event without force them to hate game.

How is it you're calling this other person stupid when your advice is, "to avoid this, you must learn everything about PvP..."; So you're saying that his advice to "get your resistances and buffs up, use deterction pots, L2p" is not in scope for what you're saying "...you must learn everything about PvP...".

Last I checked, resistances, buffs, detection pots and of course L2P were all a big part of not only regular PvP, but avoiding it. In fact, it would be rather dumb to go into PvP without making your peace with those parts of your build first.

Vulkunne · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

All of this is part of the fun of it. Ok so what else do you want? Like crowds of questers shuffling mindlessly between quest locals?

Cyrodiil/IC was not intended to be a grocery store. But sometimes, it can be a buffet.

imPDA · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

the game has changed and evolved.

What evolution means for the game? I think, it means more people are interested in it and started to spend more time. I think, amount of player in IC reduced, so is it really an evolution and not degradation?

I am now would be happy to fight old enemies which I blacklisted in game, Discord and Twitch, because they are more worthy opponents than most of current players I met.

AzuraFan · January 28

frogthroat wrote: »

In PVP event you need to do PVP whether you like it or not to get the tickets.

You don't have to PvP to get tickets. You have to enter a PvPvE zone to get them, but you can get them without engaging anyone. I've not engaged in PvP with a single player and have only been ganked once (didn't bother fighting back so no PvP on my end), and I've gotten 3 tickets every day.

Choose your campaigns in IC and Cyrodiil wisely, and just go about your business. Worst case - someone kills you. Just go back in, or if it's someone camped at a quest giver, queue into another campaign.

Fortunately this should be the last time PvEers have to bother with PvP events, since tickets are going away. We'll be able to get currency to spend in the bazaar in many other ways.

sshogrin · January 28

Vulkunne wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

All of this is part of the fun of it. Ok so what else do you want? Like crowds of questers shuffling mindlessly between quest locals?

Cyrodiil/IC was not intended to be a grocery store. But sometimes, it can be a buffet.

I don't think the devs intended for PvP players to do any of that.
It always amazes me that PvP players think that everybody should make a PvP build to go into those zones to do the quest for the tickets, but complained about doing the PvE events when they didn't have to change anything.
If PvP players actually had to change their build to do PvE content, they might think different about things.
Maybe the end game trial and dungeon people should just kick PvPers out of group when they join if they don't want to use a PvE build when doing that content...put a gate on doing that content. It's bad enough we have people fake role queueing as it is. I don't think the PvP community would like it if they actually had to use the armory system to change their builds to go into any PvE zone. I already know they'd complain hard about that...it's like the complaint of saying that queueing out of IC is an "exploit".
They should make it so you can't queue if in an active PvP fight and that you can't accept the queue if in an active PvP fight. If they're going to do this Tel Var cap, then you shouldn't be able to accept the queue you're already in if you have over 100 Tel Var and make you deposit it before you can accept the queue. You'll have a lot of PvP players that will miss their queues, then they won't go into IC at all while they wait for their queue to pop. Make them use PvE builds in PvE content so they'll either just be standing there doing nothing waiting, or will have to change their build when they finally get into Cyro.

coop500 · January 28

Frayton wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

PvP and PvE builds are different, so you have to change your build if it's a dungeon or trial event unless you don't care about any meaningful contribution to your group.

The worst dungeon and trial groups I've ever been in were people who just didn't care that their builds weren't suitable for the content. This goes for both PvErs and PvPers.

I said events, not dungeons and trials. Events aren't dungeons and trials (except the undaunted one I guess? but everyone just farms Fungal Grotto 1 and that can be done with any build too.)

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Why have PvP players been complaining about people queuing out of IC to go do something else? Queueing for a different activity is part of the game.
It's why they're wanting to make a change to queueing out of IC.

Because queuing out of IC is unintended behavior. It was never supposed to be possible; it's a side effect of separating IC and Cyrodiil. Before that change, you weren't allowed to queue out because IC is supposed to function like an extraction shooter.

But what about players that go to IC while waiting in queue for GH? Are they just going to be stuck in queue for eternity if they have more than 100 tel var on them? What's that going to do to the queuing system? Shouldn't queue still hit and port you out of IC regardless of tel var?

I think there is a problem here that people aren't seeing yet.

@ZOS_Kevin

AFAIA, you can enter a queue before accumulating 100 TelVar, and accept the queue even after accumulating it. The new rule prevents you from entering a queue.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

All of this is part of the fun of it. Ok so what else do you want? Like crowds of questers shuffling mindlessly between quest locals?

Cyrodiil/IC was not intended to be a grocery store. But sometimes, it can be a buffet.

I don't think the devs intended for PvP players to do any of that.
It always amazes me that PvP players think that everybody should make a PvP build to go into those zones to do the quest for the tickets, but complained about doing the PvE events when they didn't have to change anything.
If PvP players actually had to change their build to do PvE content, they might think different about things.
Maybe the end game trial and dungeon people should just kick PvPers out of group when they join if they don't want to use a PvE build when doing that content...put a gate on doing that content. It's bad enough we have people fake role queueing as it is. I don't think the PvP community would like it if they actually had to use the armory system to change their builds to go into any PvE zone. I already know they'd complain hard about that...it's like the complaint of saying that queueing out of IC is an "exploit".
They should make it so you can't queue if in an active PvP fight and that you can't accept the queue if in an active PvP fight. If they're going to do this Tel Var cap, then you shouldn't be able to accept the queue you're already in if you have over 100 Tel Var and make you deposit it before you can accept the queue. You'll have a lot of PvP players that will miss their queues, then they won't go into IC at all while they wait for their queue to pop. Make them use PvE builds in PvE content so they'll either just be standing there doing nothing waiting, or will have to change their build when they finally get into Cyro.

The quest areas are in a capture zone for a reason. The developers absolutely intended for people to be able to kill others while questing, or else they would have made the quest areas a safe zone like they do in IC vaults. You are questing in a PvP zone, to call it "unintended behavior" is ridiculous.

Also, most PvP players do change their builds for PvE content. Every single PvP player I know has, at the very least, a rudimentary crit-based PvE set up.

If I were to show up in PvP gear to a trial I would absolutely deserve to be kicked.

Pheefs · January 28

Camping the Quest is pathetic, camping the Spawn Point is pathetic.

If I get ganked at the fountain or basically ANYWHERE except the Door/Quest/Spawn, I consider it the fun of the game.

If I get ganked at the Door/Ladder/Quest/Spawn, its jerks going for low hanging fruit and sucking all the fun out of the room.

PvP sucks because of the PvP'ers, have fun playing with yourself.

esotoon · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Notice how you never see PvP players complaining about the Undaunted event

Because PvP players can easily do those events without having to change builds completely.
Maybe if PvP players had to actually have a completely different build using the armory system, they'd think different.

As well as my main account, I'm currently doing the PVP event on one account running a lvl 12 nightblade with no set armour, and on another account with a lvl 14 warden with no set armour. So armour sets have nothing to do with it.

Given the number of servers and multiple ways of getting tickets in this event, and the current low population of PVP players this is not hard to do. I've only been killed a couple times in IC, never in Cyrodiil.

In Cyrodiil, if you want to do the quests in towns and your faction doesn't own the town, or someone is ganking, then head to a different town, or swap servers. If you have loads of Champion Points, don't let it fool you into thinking you are better off using the CP campaigns, the no-cp campaigns tend to be quieter and easier to quest in.

Scouting missions are also simple. Look for a server where your faction owns the map and you can get around easily. Just don't ride your mount along the tram lines between keeps and you shouldn't see anyone. When you get to a keep or resource, try to approach it out of line of sight (so if heading to a resource aim to get to it behind the tower, or if heading to a keep, try approaching from side or rear). If you can't find a map where your faction owns most the keeps, look for shortcuts to traverse the map using death porting. When you get killed by an enemy player or npc, you can port to any keep/outpost/town you own, so you can use this to traverse the map. You can use the same method, as well as dying to fall damage, using the /stuck commend, or switching to IC and back to a Campaign map, to return to your homebase to turn in the quest.

If you are struggling in IC, the easiest way Ive found of doing the daily is having a DC nightblade. Once you're level 10 and have Dark Cloak, head to iC and up the ladder to Elven gardens. The Ballistas quest there is easy, and Dark Cloak is all you need to get the quest done. The exit to the sewers in Elven Gardens is also the closest one to the DC Base, making it easy to turn the quest in. If you see enemy players just wait. Time is money in IC, and gankers don't tend to hang around if no one is around. If it's a particularly busy time then again, switch to a different IC instance.

sshogrin · January 28

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

All of this is part of the fun of it. Ok so what else do you want? Like crowds of questers shuffling mindlessly between quest locals?

Cyrodiil/IC was not intended to be a grocery store. But sometimes, it can be a buffet.

I don't think the devs intended for PvP players to do any of that.
It always amazes me that PvP players think that everybody should make a PvP build to go into those zones to do the quest for the tickets, but complained about doing the PvE events when they didn't have to change anything.
If PvP players actually had to change their build to do PvE content, they might think different about things.
Maybe the end game trial and dungeon people should just kick PvPers out of group when they join if they don't want to use a PvE build when doing that content...put a gate on doing that content. It's bad enough we have people fake role queueing as it is. I don't think the PvP community would like it if they actually had to use the armory system to change their builds to go into any PvE zone. I already know they'd complain hard about that...it's like the complaint of saying that queueing out of IC is an "exploit".
They should make it so you can't queue if in an active PvP fight and that you can't accept the queue if in an active PvP fight. If they're going to do this Tel Var cap, then you shouldn't be able to accept the queue you're already in if you have over 100 Tel Var and make you deposit it before you can accept the queue. You'll have a lot of PvP players that will miss their queues, then they won't go into IC at all while they wait for their queue to pop. Make them use PvE builds in PvE content so they'll either just be standing there doing nothing waiting, or will have to change their build when they finally get into Cyro.

The quest areas are in a capture zone for a reason. The developers absolutely intended for people to be able to kill others while questing, or else they would have made the quest areas a safe zone like they do in IC vaults. You are questing in a PvP zone, to call it "unintended behavior" is ridiculous.

Also, most PvP players do change their builds for PvE content. Every single PvP player I know has, at the very least, a rudimentary crit-based PvE set up.

If I were to show up in PvP gear to a trial I would absolutely deserve to be kicked.

The devs didn't intend for PvP players to camp quest, ladder, base doors, etc. That's the point I'm making, not that PvP players can't kill players questing, it's the camping of certain locations that the devs didn't "intend" for people to do.

I would also argue that it's not "most" PvP players that change their builds. I get a lot of PvP players that don't even know what a PvE build is and they still run around in their PvP setups in dungeon groups and trial groups. Sword/Board for a dps is NOT a damage build at all, and I see that a lot. I see a lot of PvP builds in random dungeon groups also.
Again, it's much easier for PvP players to engage in PvE activities than the other way around. You can do all PvE content with a PvP build, but you can't really do PvP with a PvE build...it's gate kept, all the PvP players keep saying you have to change your build to go to those 3 areas...so in reality PvP players should have to change their builds to do ANY PvE area if that PvP mindset continues like it is.
PvP players can tell who's just questing, and they should maybe let those questers just do their thing instead of praying on them. It actually makes me think that those PvP players aren't really good at PvP and do it to feed their own frail little egos, gives them something to brag about.

esotoon · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

The devs didn't intend for PvP players to camp quest, ladder, base doors, etc. That's the point I'm making, not that PvP players can't kill players questing, it's the camping of certain locations that the devs didn't "intend" for people to do.

Can you provide a source for this please? Given that in IC, when you leave your base, or use a ladder, or switch districts, you are given immunity for a short period of time, it would suggest that the developers knew full well the issues with ganking at certain points of the map and provided a solution. Logic therefore suggests that if you are somewhere where you do not have this immunity, you are fair game to be ganked.

You can do all PvE content with a PvP build

This is simply not the case. There are plenty of PVP builds that wouldn't survive the likes of MAelstrom Arena or Vatesham Hollows and would only manage veteran dungeons/trials, if they had a group willing to carry them .

, but you can't really do PvP with a PvE build...it's gate kept

Yes you can. I often PVP in PVE gear. Will you be good at actual PVP? No. Will you be able to 1v1, no. But you can be useful in a group, and if all you are doing is questing, PVE gear makes the quests easier/quicker to complete, and makes it easier to take resources.

sshogrin · January 28

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

The devs didn't intend for PvP players to camp quest, ladder, base doors, etc. That's the point I'm making, not that PvP players can't kill players questing, it's the camping of certain locations that the devs didn't "intend" for people to do.

Can you provide a source for this please? Given that in IC, when you leave your base, or use a ladder, or switch districts, you are given immunity for a short period of time, it would suggest that the developers knew full well the issues with ganking at certain points of the map and provided a solution. Logic therefore suggests that if you are somewhere where you do not have this immunity, you are fair game to be ganked.

You can do all PvE content with a PvP build

This is simply not the case. There are plenty of PVP builds that wouldn't survive the likes of MAelstrom Arena or Vatesham Hollows and would only manage veteran dungeons/trials, if they had a group willing to carry them .

, but you can't really do PvP with a PvE build...it's gate kept

Yes you can. I often PVP in PVE gear. Will you be good at actual PVP? No. Will you be able to 1v1, no. But you can be useful in a group, and if all you are doing is questing, PVE gear makes the quests easier/quicker to complete, and makes it easier to take resources.

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Sidewaves89 · January 28

Possible solution is to exclude event tickets from quests rewards in Bruma, Cropsford, Vlastarus and few other places on map so only quests you collect on your alliance base will provide you event tickets. This way pve players won't suffer from gankers and strong pvp players while they hand in pve quests. Everyone will do pvp in pvp zone, "pve quests in pvp zone" argument will disappear by itself and everyone will be happy.

esotoon · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

The devs didn't intend for PvP players to camp quest, ladder, base doors, etc. That's the point I'm making, not that PvP players can't kill players questing, it's the camping of certain locations that the devs didn't "intend" for people to do.

Can you provide a source for this please? Given that in IC, when you leave your base, or use a ladder, or switch districts, you are given immunity for a short period of time, it would suggest that the developers knew full well the issues with ganking at certain points of the map and provided a solution. Logic therefore suggests that if you are somewhere where you do not have this immunity, you are fair game to be ganked.

You can do all PvE content with a PvP build

This is simply not the case. There are plenty of PVP builds that wouldn't survive the likes of MAelstrom Arena or Vatesham Hollows and would only manage veteran dungeons/trials, if they had a group willing to carry them .

, but you can't really do PvP with a PvE build...it's gate kept

Yes you can. I often PVP in PVE gear. Will you be good at actual PVP? No. Will you be able to 1v1, no. But you can be useful in a group, and if all you are doing is questing, PVE gear makes the quests easier/quicker to complete, and makes it easier to take resources.

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

The Vault areas of IC have 100% immunity at all times because the devs didn't want players killing each other while they are opening chests for loot. If the devs didnt want people to camp quest giver areas in Cyrodiil, they would have the same 100% immunity at all times. They don't, so clearly it's not "unintentional".

sshogrin · January 28

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

You totally missed that they aren't ganking at the bottom of ladders or attacking people coming out of bases...they are literally ganking quest points, sewer entrances, and people coming back from the sewers.

The issue is really the fact that they want to do some stupid Tel Var cap so people can't queue out when in IC "because it's an exploit", which it really isn't. You typically have to already be queued.
They just need to make it so you can't accept the queue while in PvP combat. If they want to make it so you can't queue if you have more than 100 Tel Var, then they need to make it so you can't camp quest points, ladders, base doors, etc. The people that complained about queueing for Cyro while in IC are the same people that have been using it themselves as I read through all the forum posts about it. You can't say that one thing is an exploit without saying the other isn't either, like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply. If someone throws an AOE on someone using a pot and stealthed, it should pull them out of stealth, it shouldn't make them immune to any of those effects.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

You typically have to already be queued.

This is the part where your argument breaks down, because that's not true.

People abuse the queueing system to flee combat daily. Anyone that PvPs in IC can tell you that, because it happens all the time.

With an addon, it takes about 2 seconds total to queue out with a single button press. Without an addon, it takes about 3 seconds (as it's literally 3 button presses) and can be done with complete safety with a defensive ultimate.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

sshogrin · January 28

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

That is absolutely not true with the invis pots..they have actually stood in those direct damage AoEs and used the pot, and stayed invisible, even with spamming those AoEs in the area.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

That is absolutely not true with the invis pots..they have actually stood in those direct damage AoEs and used the pot, and stayed invisible, even with spamming those AoEs in the area.

Please show me a video of this if you're so certain.

That is not how invisibility works.

sshogrin · January 28

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

That is absolutely not true with the invis pots..they have actually stood in those direct damage AoEs and used the pot, and stayed invisible, even with spamming those AoEs in the area.

Please show me a video of this if you're so certain.

That is not how invisibility works.

I don't record my game play.
I have played this game since Beta, yesterday I got attacked by some ganker, I threw my AoEs on them, they invis potted, moved and shot at me again. One shot with 6 different abilities that got me, and it wasn't from the first attempt. You shouldn't be able to do any other abilities/light attack while stealthed. PvP is broken bad, even PvPers admit to that and complain about it. Invis pots need to be fixed/reworked completely.

esotoon · January 28

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

You totally missed that they aren't ganking at the bottom of ladders or attacking people coming out of bases...they are literally ganking quest points, sewer entrances, and people coming back from the sewers.

No, I fully understand that point. But as has been explained to you many times, there are ways around this. I have run PVP dailies on this event on 3 accounts on both EU and NA (including the LVL 12 and 14 characters I mentioned in an earlier post). I have come across very few gankers, and those I did I quickly avoided using all the tips given to you in this thread.

They just need to make it so you can't accept the queue while in PvP combat.

This I have no problem with and think is a good solution. Although, if they don't implement it this way, I can understand why they wouldn't want to, as the whole point of IC PVP is meant to be the risk/reward element.

If they want to make it so you can't queue if you have more than 100 Tel Var, then they need to make it so you can't camp quest points, ladders, base doors, etc. The people that complained about queueing for Cyro while in IC are the same people that have been using it themselves as I read through all the forum posts about it. You can't say that one thing is an exploit without saying the other isn't either

Yes you can say one thing is an exploit and the other isn't. If they want IC to return to it's risk/reward roots, then dealing with campers is simply one of the elements of risk.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

That is absolutely not true with the invis pots..they have actually stood in those direct damage AoEs and used the pot, and stayed invisible, even with spamming those AoEs in the area.

Please show me a video of this if you're so certain.

That is not how invisibility works.

I don't record my game play.
I have played this game since Beta, yesterday I got attacked by some ganker, I threw my AoEs on them, they invis potted, moved and shot at me again. One shot with 6 different abilities that got me, and it wasn't from the first attempt. You shouldn't be able to do any other abilities/light attack while stealthed. PvP is broken bad, even PvPers admit to that and complain about it. Invis pots need to be fixed/reworked completely.

If you're throwing your AoEs before they enter invis then clearly you don't understand the mechanic. Throwing AoEs before they enter invis isn't going to prevent them from going invis.

You have to hit them with a direct damage AoE (like Cleave, Scythe, Ele Explosion, Dawn Breaker, Streak - i.e. NOT a DoT) after they enter invis. It requires predicting where they are.

Throwing down a wall of elements isn't going to prevent them from going into stealth, nor will it pull them out of stealth, as it is a DoT. However, they also won't magically become immune to the damage either - they continue to take damage from any DoTs while invisible.

sshogrin · January 28

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

That is absolutely not true with the invis pots..they have actually stood in those direct damage AoEs and used the pot, and stayed invisible, even with spamming those AoEs in the area.

Please show me a video of this if you're so certain.

That is not how invisibility works.

I don't record my game play.
I have played this game since Beta, yesterday I got attacked by some ganker, I threw my AoEs on them, they invis potted, moved and shot at me again. One shot with 6 different abilities that got me, and it wasn't from the first attempt. You shouldn't be able to do any other abilities/light attack while stealthed. PvP is broken bad, even PvPers admit to that and complain about it. Invis pots need to be fixed/reworked completely.

If you're throwing your AoEs before they enter invis then clearly you don't understand the mechanic. Throwing AoEs before they enter invis isn't going to prevent them from going invis.

You have to hit them with a direct damage AoE (like Cleave, Scythe, Ele Explosion, Dawn Breaker, Streak - i.e. NOT a DoT) after they enter invis. It requires predicting where they are.

Throwing down a wall of elements isn't going to prevent them from going into stealth, nor will it pull them out of stealth, as it is a DoT. However, they also won't magically become immune to the damage either - they continue to take damage from any DoTs while invisible.

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, I have thrown AoEs after they went invisible, even from where they reappeared, they were standing in it and only became visible after they attacked me.
Quite frankly, if you're taking damage, and invis pot shouldn't work at all. If I'm in crouch or trying to go into crouch and take damage, I can't actually go invisible.

frogthroat · January 28

DenverRalphy wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Because of the tickets.

In PVE events you barely need to do any PVE activity to get the tickets.
In PVP event you need to do PVP whether you like it or not to get the tickets.

During the previous event, New Life, all you had to do was pick up the quest from the guy at the back of the tent, port somewhere to light a candle, and then collect your tickets.

During this event you need to port to Cyro, do a quest -- PVE quests are available but require a lot of riding, then you need to do PVE to kill the guards, pick up the quest, do some PVE so you can return it, get ganked by someone who camps at the village, ride again there, try to go through that door, get ganked again, ride, manage to get through that door and return the quest. Then you need to port to IC, try to do a quest, get ganked, try to do the quest again, get ganked again, rinse and repeat until you may possibly succeed.

That's why.

Everything else... meh, do whatever you want to do. If you want a lot of PVE boxes during a PVE event, prepare to do a lot of PVE. If you want a lot of PVP boxes during the PVP event, prepare to do a lot of PVP (well, more likely PVDoor).

The event tickets you get during MYM can easily be dismissed. PvE players can easily forego any event tickets given out during both MYM events and not fall short at all.

It's optional content that PvE players do not have to partake in. Out of all the events that take place all year long, PvP gets a total of 2 events geared towards them.

Have you met humans? If you ever interacted with a real life human before, you know you can't dangle a shiny in front of humans and say "you no need shiny" -- of course human wants the shiny.

For many tickets are the only thing they want from any given event. Once you have collected all the other things, only the new things you get from impresario are anything worthwhile. And since in all the PVE events it's trivial to get the tickets (except in Undaunted you need to do normal FG1 once a day), surely you're not objecting giving PVE players at least some chance to get the tickets unharassed just because "this our event. PVE stay away." Don't worry, once they manage to do the one quest they are there to do, they will be gone from there.

Oblivion_Protocol · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, I have thrown AoEs after they went invisible, even from where they reappeared, they were standing in it and only became visible after they attacked me.
Quite frankly, if you're taking damage, and invis pot shouldn't work at all. If I'm in crouch or trying to go into crouch and take damage, I can't actually go invisible.

Have you considered that maybe the person hit you before you hit them? That can especially be true if they’re using some ability with a low travel time. Because taking direct damage (not DOT) absolutely pulls you out of stealth, even with a stealth potion.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

You only get that immunity for a short time after coming down a ladder or leaving the base/spawn point area.
The reality is people are camping those areas for people that are either trying to go down the ladder or are returning to base.
They are also waiting at quest points, like the alters, pots, ogrim traps, etc.
You have people camping in Bruma, Vlastarus, and Cropsford by the quest givers either outdoors or the door to the buildings where the other quest givers are, and even the doors to the transitus shrine towers in Cyro.

Exactly, you get immunity for a short period of time. After that you are fair game.

I have no problem with saying what the gankers are doing is unfair, not very sporting, and spoils people's fun, but that's different to what you are saying which is they shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that the developers didn't intend for this type of ganking. The fact that the developers provide ant-ganking in some areas and not others, and have done nothing to change this issue in 10 years despite it being repeatedly complained about, should be a clear indicator that as much as you may not like it, this is indeed intended and part and parcel of the PVP experience.

like the instant stealth pots which make it so you don't take any damage even while standing in an AOE. That should actually expose you if you take damage, just like if you're crouching, the same should apply.

This is also just incorrect... invis does not make you immune to AoE. You still take damage from Single Target and AoE dots, and you will be pulled out of invis by Direct Damage AoE abilities.

That is absolutely not true with the invis pots..they have actually stood in those direct damage AoEs and used the pot, and stayed invisible, even with spamming those AoEs in the area.

Please show me a video of this if you're so certain.

That is not how invisibility works.

I don't record my game play.
I have played this game since Beta, yesterday I got attacked by some ganker, I threw my AoEs on them, they invis potted, moved and shot at me again. One shot with 6 different abilities that got me, and it wasn't from the first attempt. You shouldn't be able to do any other abilities/light attack while stealthed. PvP is broken bad, even PvPers admit to that and complain about it. Invis pots need to be fixed/reworked completely.

If you're throwing your AoEs before they enter invis then clearly you don't understand the mechanic. Throwing AoEs before they enter invis isn't going to prevent them from going invis.

You have to hit them with a direct damage AoE (like Cleave, Scythe, Ele Explosion, Dawn Breaker, Streak - i.e. NOT a DoT) after they enter invis. It requires predicting where they are.

Throwing down a wall of elements isn't going to prevent them from going into stealth, nor will it pull them out of stealth, as it is a DoT. However, they also won't magically become immune to the damage either - they continue to take damage from any DoTs while invisible.

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, I have thrown AoEs after they went invisible, even from where they reappeared, they were standing in it and only became visible after they attacked me.
Quite frankly, if you're taking damage, and invis pot shouldn't work at all. If I'm in crouch or trying to go into crouch and take damage, I can't actually go invisible.

I did. You said, and I quote, "I threw my AoEs on them, they invis potted, moved and shot at me again". Stating that they invis potted after you state that you cast your AoE abilities implies that you cast the abilities before they went invis.

If that isn't the case, then might I ask what abilities you're using?

I know with 100% certainty that direct damage AoE abilities will pull someone out of invis. That is how invisibility functions. So either:

1) You are using AoE DoTs and expecting that to pull them out (it won't)
2) You are simply not predicting where they are accurately.

Invis potions are not an exploit. Invisibility is not an exploit. Ganking at a quest giver is not an exploit.

Using an unintended mechanic (queueing in IC) that resulted from an oversight after a larger change to bypass the mechanics of this zone and flee from PvP with 0 repercussions or counterplay is an exploit.

sshogrin · January 28

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, I have thrown AoEs after they went invisible, even from where they reappeared, they were standing in it and only became visible after they attacked me.
Quite frankly, if you're taking damage, and invis pot shouldn't work at all. If I'm in crouch or trying to go into crouch and take damage, I can't actually go invisible.

Have you considered that maybe the person hit you before you hit them? That can especially be true if they’re using some ability with a low travel time. Because taking direct damage (not DOT) absolutely pulls you out of stealth, even with a stealth potion.

I threw direct damage AoEs on top of them and it didn't pull them out of stealth.
The reality is this also encompasses the stupid block of queueing in IC if you have 100 or more Tel Var. If they want to keep people from porting out in fights, then don't allow people to accept the queue while in active PvP combat. If that is an "exploit" even though you have to have joined the queue in the first place, then using invis pots to get out of combat falls under that same umbrella, and is even a "worse" exploit since you can have it on your quick bar and instantly use it.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

frogthroat wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Because of the tickets.

In PVE events you barely need to do any PVE activity to get the tickets.
In PVP event you need to do PVP whether you like it or not to get the tickets.

During the previous event, New Life, all you had to do was pick up the quest from the guy at the back of the tent, port somewhere to light a candle, and then collect your tickets.

During this event you need to port to Cyro, do a quest -- PVE quests are available but require a lot of riding, then you need to do PVE to kill the guards, pick up the quest, do some PVE so you can return it, get ganked by someone who camps at the village, ride again there, try to go through that door, get ganked again, ride, manage to get through that door and return the quest. Then you need to port to IC, try to do a quest, get ganked, try to do the quest again, get ganked again, rinse and repeat until you may possibly succeed.

That's why.

Everything else... meh, do whatever you want to do. If you want a lot of PVE boxes during a PVE event, prepare to do a lot of PVE. If you want a lot of PVP boxes during the PVP event, prepare to do a lot of PVP (well, more likely PVDoor).

The event tickets you get during MYM can easily be dismissed. PvE players can easily forego any event tickets given out during both MYM events and not fall short at all.

It's optional content that PvE players do not have to partake in. Out of all the events that take place all year long, PvP gets a total of 2 events geared towards them.

Have you met humans? If you ever interacted with a real life human before, you know you can't dangle a shiny in front of humans and say "you no need shiny" -- of course human wants the shiny.

For many tickets are the only thing they want from any given event. Once you have collected all the other things, only the new things you get from impresario are anything worthwhile. And since in all the PVE events it's trivial to get the tickets (except in Undaunted you need to do normal FG1 once a day), surely you're not objecting giving PVE players at least some chance to get the tickets unharassed just because "this our event. PVE stay away." Don't worry, once they manage to do the one quest they are there to do, they will be gone from there.

No one is telling PvErs to stay away. They're telling PvErs to either accept that they're going to have to interact with PvP in the PvP event or stay away. It's not a command, it's a choice.

It's a PvP event. If getting ganked at a quest giver upsets you, find a different empty campaign, call out the ganker in Zone Chat, join a group doing the quests, or simply don't participate.