sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

PvP has always been this way... With that being said! Send them a tell and tell them you are just questing and to please stop killing you.
Now, most people go into PvP with OFFLINE on, so this wont work, So you Email them asking them to stop griefing you, as you are just trying to quest. And if it continues, you will report them. (usually comes after they have killed you a few times... dozen times).
Then, and only then! You report them for Griefing you.

Personally I have no time for pvp as I dont spend my life in Sillydill. And I wont unless I want to get tickets. And then its "Farm quests for 1 day and turn in 1 a day till event is over"

And with the state of Sub classing? I feel nothing but pain for anyone that walks in to pvp with zero exp and thinking to get somewhere. Hell! I feel sorry for anyone that learns that everything they learnt last year is now obsolete.

ANYWAYS. Spend 6 months practicing for next Midyear so that you to can grief other people!!

sshogrin wrote: »

queueing for an instance is an intended game mechanic in reality. People queue out for various reasons. Whether they intended it to be used for some reasons is a whatever...where the instant stealth pots intended to be a way to not take damage or get hit and exposed by an AOE? I would argue that it wasn't intended for that and is an exploit. I would also argue that queueing out of IC isn't an exploit either. You don't get an instant port, it takes time, period. At a minimum, it's around 5 seconds, and in some cases depending on the Cyro instance you queue to, it could be hours.

People can argue "exploit" all they want, it's not really an exploit, it's part of the game...like people just camping quest, ladder, base doors, and spawn points.

Nope, you're confidently incorrect here.

When IC was introduced, the zone itself was located inside of cyrodiil. To get to IC, you had to travel into the cyrodiil campaign and walk to the physical sewer entrance.

Since you were already technically in cyrodiil, you could not activate a queue to escape IC.

Apart from this, we know that you were never intended to be able too poof away at will because of the existence of the retreat sigils, and the functionality of "get me unstuck" in IC. This mechanic ports you to the base, but cannot be used in combat just like the sigils, and takes half your telvar if used.

The ability to escape via the queue was an unintended consequence of removing the imperial city from cyrodiil and making it into it's own instance. Abusing the queue to escape combat in order to avoid losing your telvar is absolutely an exploit of the system and was never intended to work this way.

JeroenB wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

See. I2p... hate to be the one to say i told toldjya so but...

Detect pots, armor, etc...

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

And then, an event comes along, and suddenly you want to skip all of that progression, and have the entire fabric of the game change to suit your needs, because that's easier and more reasonable than having you (God forbid) change your build.

You both make these statements apparently believing that you are providing a useful solution to the problem encountered by PvE players attempting to engage in PvE questing in Cyrodiil. As a PvE player, I do not understand how these suggestions are a solution. Please clarify. When I am standing still by a questgiver with my weapons sheathed, but unable to talk to the questgiver because a PvP player is continually attacking me, how does any amount of health or crit resist or mobility abilities or detect pots or armour or the best PvP build imaginable help me talk to the questgiver successfully?

ZOS chose to place PvE content in this PvP zone. Therefore, PvE activities are by the developer's own actions equally valid activities to be engaged with in this PvP zone.

To be clear, I fully understand that this is a PvP zone, and that a PvP player is free to attack me if they so choose. I am similarly free to consider them a rather sad and pathetic individual for continuing to attack someone who is clearly trying to talk to an NPC.

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

ZOS should just give out event tickets for free without any requirements /s

It's ZOS's decision to give out event tickets for PvE quests in PvP zones. If you disagree with that, take it up with ZOS, not the PvE players playing the game that ZOS chose to release.

If you're just standing there spamming activate on the NPC while someone is attacking you, you're going to die.

If you build for PvP, go in with friends, and call out to your alliance that there are people camping the quest spot, you'll likely be able to kill the gankers and turn in your quest. Gankers typically have less health than a PvE DPS player. That means they're incredibly squishy. It's a PvP zone, it requires a PvP solution.

If you don't like the PvP aspect, don't participate in the PvP event. There is nothing forcing you to participate other than your desire for cosmetic rewards that do nothing to affect the game.

sshogrin wrote: »

I don't think the devs intended for people to stealth gank during events like this, like at spawn points, quest areas, ladders, base doors, etc. That is what I'm saying.
You can't "counter crouch" after you've been hit, you can only try to use a stealth pot, which I don't think the devs intended those to be a way to get out of a fight either...maybe they did, and if so, then queueing for Cyro in IC shouldn't be an issue. Sometimes I don't want to take the time to run all the way back to the base when I'm gaming/questing, etc.

If you're convinced that stealth potions use in PvP wasn't intended by devs, then feel free to report it as a bug.
I guess you will trust the answers of a support specialist.

While you compare a stealth potion with porting from IC, you miss a tiny (well huge) detail:
- using a stealth potion can be countered by the opponent. Experienced PvPers know how, and you can easily find it too.
- porting from IC can't be countered by the opponent in any way
That's why the porting is fixed and the potion stays.

Blood_again wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I was just stealth ganked in Crops repeatedly. It's not new but I am fed up with this and prolly will give most the rest of the event a miss.

What was difficult was the complete disrespect from regular pvpers towards the questers.

They may be just pvers trying to do quests and gain some rewards and rank but they are still part of your faction. It wouldn't take much for a couple of so called elites to help out. You might just make another regular player in an increasingly diminished group that come into Cyro instead of making people into angry "never agains".

If I do something in a town, I'll join the party and help to alliance mates without any request.
If I'm somewhere out there, I won't. I will let you manage your learning curve at your own pace.
It is a respectful attitude, if you ask me. While running to save the questers like they are damsels-in-distress is not.

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll be fed for a lifetime.

Indeed, it is a respectful attitude .

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

Get your resistances and buffs up, use detection pots. L2p

This is very stupid advice. No potions, buffs, or detection actions will help. Regardless of them, you'll still get ganked or killed. To avoid this, you must learn everything about PvP (builds, tactics, etc.) and practice.
If you don't want to do this you have two options:
1) Get killed and return (think of it as a sudden loss of connection to the server) to do whatever you're doing. Believe me, they'll stop killing you very quickly because they're not interested in killing you if you ignore them.
2) Take a scout mission from the board. There are many ways to move stealthily at a decent speed and you don't need to run back (use the queue to IC in Cyrodiil, then the queue in Cyrodiil).

My wish to the devs is to add to game something like "PvP crafting" to give players who prefer PvE the opportunity to get tickets from this event without force them to hate game.

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.

I used to "deal" with it by doing quests beforehand.

This event goes for 14 days, right?

In Cyrodiil there are 3 marked villages with 2 PVE quests each. And there are the same amount of PVE quests in the unmarked villages. That's 12 quests in total. Then one scouting mission, and the Fighters Guild bounty mission. That's 14 PVE quests you can do before the event and just go an return a quest each day.

In IC you have 6 daily quests. You need 3 characters to do enough to last you the whole event. But do them all with 3 characters and you'll have 18 quests you can just hand in one a day during the event. This would mean that during the whole event you still get all the tickets and you don't need to step outside your alliance base a single time during the entire event.

Nowadays I deal with it by making a PVP build. Keep your buffs up at all times, have at least 30k health, at least 25k resistances, couple k crit resistance, and go to a different district if someone more powerful than you is camping. Or come back later. One good "bluff" that helps you to stay alive in two different ways is constant buffing.

If you see two enemy players running, your Squishy Finder shows both are equally tanky, but one is just running while the other one is running and constantly applying buffs, which one should you attack? The one not buffing. They are not prepared and are more likely less experienced. The one buffing all the time is ready for action at the drop of a hat. So buffing constantly will a) keep you ready to fight at all times with no downtime for buffing once the combat starts and b) it works as a deterrent if there are easier "prey" nearby.

sshogrin wrote: »

The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay.

Yes. That is correct.

It's not nice. It's not polite. It's not something a gentleman would do. But war is hell.

And I can understand why people do this. Ok, probably partly because some like feeling big when they gank anyone, even if it's a defenceless PVE player. But I would imagine it's also a great source for telvars. PVE players might not understand telvars and have received a lot of them from daily login rewards, forget or don't understand to put them in a bank and walk around IC with thousands of telvars in their pocket. How could any PVP player resist potentially thousands of telvar for basically no effort? And as long as PVE players do not empty their pockets before entering IC, this will remain as a viable method of collecting a lot of telvars with minimal effort.

Like I said, it's not very nice. But I don't think PVP players are there to make friends with the enemy alliance players.

sshogrin wrote: »

Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay,

No, invis pots, NB's cloak and vamp stage 4 running are mechanics of this game, not exploits. They work exactly as intended.

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
...

You’re right, they absolutely do! That’s what PvP is great for. Go get those campers and gankers. Several people in this thread have already offered great advice on how to help you, and others, do that more effectively.

Because that is what you’re asking, isn’t it? How you - and other PvE players - can adapt, improve, and perhaps even begin to enjoy a PvP-centric event that was designed primarily with PvPers in mind, but which you’d also like to participate in?

For surely you’re not asking for the game to be changed simply because this one particular aspect isn’t to your taste? ESO is an MMO with a wide range of content and playstyles, and it’s pretty unrealistic to expect every part of it to suit everyone equally.

Best of luck.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

See. I2p... hate to be the one to say i told toldjya so but...

Detect pots, armor, etc...

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

And then, an event comes along, and suddenly you want to skip all of that progression, and have the entire fabric of the game change to suit your needs, because that's easier and more reasonable than having you (God forbid) change your build.

You both make these statements apparently believing that you are providing a useful solution to the problem encountered by PvE players attempting to engage in PvE questing in Cyrodiil. As a PvE player, I do not understand how these suggestions are a solution. Please clarify. When I am standing still by a questgiver with my weapons sheathed, but unable to talk to the questgiver because a PvP player is continually attacking me, how does any amount of health or crit resist or mobility abilities or detect pots or armour or the best PvP build imaginable help me talk to the questgiver successfully?

ZOS chose to place PvE content in this PvP zone. Therefore, PvE activities are by the developer's own actions equally valid activities to be engaged with in this PvP zone.

To be clear, I fully understand that this is a PvP zone, and that a PvP player is free to attack me if they so choose. I am similarly free to consider them a rather sad and pathetic individual for continuing to attack someone who is clearly trying to talk to an NPC.

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

ZOS should just give out event tickets for free without any requirements /s

It's ZOS's decision to give out event tickets for PvE quests in PvP zones. If you disagree with that, take it up with ZOS, not the PvE players playing the game that ZOS chose to release.

Don’t just stand there where you can be seen. Crouch whenever near npcs. Scout out the area first for a few seconds before approaching. Always assume someone is waiting there.

I advise doing the Scouting Board dailies instead. You can ride up to a keep, crouch while you write the report, and then ride back. You will probably not see another player the whole time.

If you insist on doing Cyro town dailies, pick an empty campaign, all but Gray Host and only sometimes Blackreach were zero bars population for all factions on my server. If you just pick the first one in the list it is the home campaign for the serious PvPers.

This isn't just "standing there" as you suggest/assume.
People are literally camping quest/ladder/base locations. What part of that are you failing to understand?
This is more about the argument of an "exploit" or "unintended" thing. Queueing out of IC at this point isn't an exploit, and while they may not have thought it through when they changed things so many years ago, it's still very much a part of the game now because of the change.
I don't think they intended for instant stealth pots to for people to escape fights and taking damage, but it's how it works. That is a major exploit of the game.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Why have PvP players been complaining about people queuing out of IC to go do something else? Queueing for a different activity is part of the game.
It's why they're wanting to make a change to queueing out of IC.

Justosay wrote: »

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

Get your resistances and buffs up, use detection pots. L2p

This is very stupid advice. No potions, buffs, or detection actions will help.

This just isn't true. Slot 40k health, throw on Esoteric Environment Greaves, and pop an immovable potion+vigor before talking to the NPC. You will never get ganked at a quest giver again.

You're in a PvP zone. Put on a PvP build or continue to die repeatedly.

sshogrin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Why have PvP players been complaining about people queuing out of IC to go do something else? Queueing for a different activity is part of the game.
It's why they're wanting to make a change to queueing out of IC.

That's a PvP issue, and a valid question from PvP players in PvP content. Has no relevance to PvE players getting quest camped in a PvP zone.

React wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

queueing for an instance is an intended game mechanic in reality. People queue out for various reasons. Whether they intended it to be used for some reasons is a whatever...where the instant stealth pots intended to be a way to not take damage or get hit and exposed by an AOE? I would argue that it wasn't intended for that and is an exploit. I would also argue that queueing out of IC isn't an exploit either. You don't get an instant port, it takes time, period. At a minimum, it's around 5 seconds, and in some cases depending on the Cyro instance you queue to, it could be hours.

People can argue "exploit" all they want, it's not really an exploit, it's part of the game...like people just camping quest, ladder, base doors, and spawn points.

Nope, you're confidently incorrect here.

When IC was introduced, the zone itself was located inside of cyrodiil. To get to IC, you had to travel into the cyrodiil campaign and walk to the physical sewer entrance.

Since you were already technically in cyrodiil, you could not activate a queue to escape IC.

Apart from this, we know that you were never intended to be able too poof away at will because of the existence of the retreat sigils, and the functionality of "get me unstuck" in IC. This mechanic ports you to the base, but cannot be used in combat just like the sigils, and takes half your telvar if used.

The ability to escape via the queue was an unintended consequence of removing the imperial city from cyrodiil and making it into it's own instance. Abusing the queue to escape combat in order to avoid losing your telvar is absolutely an exploit of the system and was never intended to work this way.

I agree. But we've had this "feature" for so long it feels like it belongs in game now. It makes sense they're dealing with it, but I think the port out cap should be higher or there should be another solution. What happens when we queue for pop locked GH and we have more than 100 tel var?....or are we just supposed to not go to IC when we queued for a pop locked campaign? I go to IC a lot while waiting in queue. I expect to be ported into Cyrodiil when my queue hits regardless of other factors, like having more than 100 tel var on my toon.

@ZOS_Kevin

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Why have PvP players been complaining about people queuing out of IC to go do something else? Queueing for a different activity is part of the game.
It's why they're wanting to make a change to queueing out of IC.

Because queuing out of IC is unintended behavior. It was never supposed to be possible; it's a side effect of separating IC and Cyrodiil. Before that change, you weren't allowed to queue out because IC is supposed to function like an extraction shooter.

But what about players that go to IC while waiting in queue for GH? Are they just going to be stuck in queue for eternity if they have more than 100 tel var on them? What's that going to do to the queuing system? Shouldn't queue still hit and port you out of IC regardless of tel var?

I think there is a problem here that people aren't seeing yet.

@ZOS_Kevin

frogthroat wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MYM is a PvP event. The only question is why are PvE players complaining about PvP mechanics in a PvP zone during a PvP event.

Because of the tickets.

In PVE events you barely need to do any PVE activity to get the tickets.
In PVP event you need to do PVP whether you like it or not to get the tickets.

During the previous event, New Life, all you had to do was pick up the quest from the guy at the back of the tent, port somewhere to light a candle, and then collect your tickets.

During this event you need to port to Cyro, do a quest -- PVE quests are available but require a lot of riding, then you need to do PVE to kill the guards, pick up the quest, do some PVE so you can return it, get ganked by someone who camps at the village, ride again there, try to go through that door, get ganked again, ride, manage to get through that door and return the quest. Then you need to port to IC, try to do a quest, get ganked, try to do the quest again, get ganked again, rinse and repeat until you may possibly succeed.

That's why.

Everything else... meh, do whatever you want to do. If you want a lot of PVE boxes during a PVE event, prepare to do a lot of PVE. If you want a lot of PVP boxes during the PVP event, prepare to do a lot of PVP (well, more likely PVDoor).

The event tickets you get during MYM can easily be dismissed. PvE players can easily forego any event tickets given out during both MYM events and not fall short at all.

It's optional content that PvE players do not have to partake in. Out of all the events that take place all year long, PvP gets a total of 2 events geared towards them.