Question about plans for week 3&4 of PTS - Warden Charm & Rush of Agony

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 26

With the increased communication we've been seeing it feels like it might be a good time to again bring up 2 of the most widely discussed topics in PVP (outside of the power level of groups)

A few patches ago we were told that fixes were being worked on for the Rush of Agony set which at the time was pulling people through terrain upon the character moving.
It's still never really been answered as to why this set is allowed to break CC immunity rules in a PVP environment - Especially when we are seeing more and more sets and abilities have a 'battle spirit' toggle.

Similarly for a number of years at launch Fear was essentially an 'opposite charm' where enemies would run away from the fear caster (NB predominantly). This was causing players to be stuck in terrain and was removed.
Years later Charm has been added via a couple of different means which again causes the issues we saw with Fear. Players getting stuck in terrain.
The most prevalent is the warden charm signature script which not only causes these bugs but also has essentially no cooldown (same cooldown as CC immunity) AND also restores far higher resources higher than the other class script which can restore them - NB. It also allows for CC to be attached to some very powerful skills which previously used to be another 'rule' in combat that such types of abilities would not have CC options (One of the reasons dizzy swing was nerfed).

In addition to this both of these effects can now be combo'd due to the delayed activation of Contingency when combined with NB's Ambush/Lotus Fan skill essentially meaning that you could be double CC'd without the requirement for the enemy to cast an additional CC skill.

Is there a reason these 2 areas are not being addressed or discussed as part of the upcoming changes?

ATCWarhawk · January 26

@ZOS_Kevin what is the intent here? Warden Class Mastery is beyond overloaded and there has been countless feedback from the charm effect desyncing players or having them fall through the map. Any communication on balance in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Danse_Mayhem · January 26

This would be a great time to address these 2 things;

Rush of agony
Completely overloaded set. Applies a pull that didn’t grant CC immunity and has a built in damage bomb. It was given its own cooldown, but this still lets it double CC with other things and removes any counter play in cyrodil. Paired with charm, it’s completely impossible to escape an AOE dump unless you are very fast with streak. Even without charm, this can be paired with fear, dark convergence etc and just shouldn’t work this way. Rush of agony would still be fine, and honestly still extremely strong if it just granted normal CC immunity, and/or had a longer delay on the pull. That would change nothing in PVE, and in PVP it would prevent the ball groups from stacking this annoying set.

Warden charm
As someone said above, the warden class script is very overloaded. You don’t need to factor in anything like choosing a subclass with access to a good CC such as shadow or solider or earthen heart etc because you just get the best CC in the game, which is honestly close to an ultimate level skill, just passively when you spam heals. The AOE is huge, and because of how busted this thing is, many people have just rolled warden bases so they can spam this in group fights for constant easy CC. It outperforms every other class mastery by so much that the others are pretty much irrelevant.

Clipping into the ground aside, if the development are now listening to the playerbase about things that aren’t balanced, then it’s definitely time to address these 2 things because they have overperformed since day 1

tsaescishoeshiner · January 26

Controversial, but I like what Rush of Agony brings to PvP (even when I die to it), and it does require the use of a set slot. It provides different group control than back when Cyrodiil was snares, snares, snares. But, maybe I just enjoy the playstyle and playing around it, like Vicious Death.

If there was an issue with ball groups using it, maybe they could have it reduce targets' AoE damage taken from other players for a few seconds or something.

Durham · January 26

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Controversial, but I like what Rush of Agony brings to PvP (even when I die to it), and it does require the use of a set slot. It provides different group control than back when Cyrodiil was snares, snares, snares. But, maybe I just enjoy the playstyle and playing around it, like Vicious Death.

If there was an issue with ball groups using it, maybe they could have it reduce targets' AoE damage taken from other players for a few seconds or something.

Rush of Agony Last night I was pulled through a wall with this set. The set is very problemative in high latency PVP. This is one of the worst sets ever added to PVP and caused more people to leave pvp then anything ever added. The changes made with this set were not enough and this should be disabled with battle spirit. (NO SET SHOULD CONTAIN THE BEST CC IN THE GAME)

Warden Charm : Last week I wasCharmed and stuck in a box in which I had to Q to IC to get out of the box. Then I had another 35 minute Q to get back into G_Host. The area of the charm is way to large and with new PVPers they simply do not even know they are CCed until its to late. This one abliity why most of your 1VX and most experienced PVPers are running base Wardens. I think best fix is a complete overhaul of this ability, or just disable it with battle spirit until addressed.

There is a reason why nearly everyone runs the same thing( its out of balance!)

nightbringer1993 · January 26

It is vital that charm is removed for the previously mentioned problems.

Reminder that next patch there will be a tel var limit to which players will be capped in order to queue for cyro. And if this charm is not removed, people that get stuck in a wall in IC and are out of teleport stones, then they will be stuck for a long time which might require ZOS to get them unstuck. And if in combat you can’t use stones. The /stuck command doesn’t work either.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 26

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Controversial, but I like what Rush of Agony brings to PvP (even when I die to it), and it does require the use of a set slot. It provides different group control than back when Cyrodiil was snares, snares, snares. But, maybe I just enjoy the playstyle and playing around it, like Vicious Death.

If there was an issue with ball groups using it, maybe they could have it reduce targets' AoE damage taken from other players for a few seconds or something.

Pull sets in pvp is something which can be argued separately, we have them now but they should follow the rules of combat.

Turtle_Bot · January 27

Charm really does need to go at this point. I used to be of the opinion that it could be a regular CC, but being a random effect that can be tacked onto some of the strongest skills in PvP has slowly changed my mind on this. It needs a complete rework into something else (maybe something to play on chilled or to tie in with whatever ZOS does to warden with the rework next season).

Seen far too many "good" players crutching on the meta charm + animal companions + assassination combo just to farm questers during the current MYM event, and because they are doing this inside the quest buildings there's no way to stop them because the charm AoE covers the entire floor inside these buildings, so there's literally zero counterplay to the charm effect...

Also, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO just to add some info to your original post, the rule about powerful abilities not having CC options was part of the reason Crystal Blast was removed and turned into Crystal Weapon. It was a hard hitting ranged AoE that stunned.

YandereGirlfriend · January 27

Adding another voice to the chorus calling for the abolition of Charm.

This PTS has been much more responsive in terms of incorporating ideas proposed and popular with the forum and this should rocket to basically the top of the priority queue based upon that precedent.

Rush of Agony should also definitely apply proper CC immunity after the pull. Though, with its huge telegraph, the only real excuse to be pulled by it in 2026 is latency and server lag. If your connection quality is decent there really isn't a good excuse to fall prey to the set.

TheMrPancake · January 27

The most under-reported issue with the set IMO is that the 12m area that it affects is not telegraphed. Only the 7m damaging area that explodes after two seconds has an aoe. This makes it quite difficult to know exactly how to play against it if you are not at the very center of the action.

Should I roll dodge to get out of the 12m area before it goes off? I don't know! Sometimes I roll and get pulled in because I wasn't as close to the edge as I thought. Please change at least this so that I can actually see the thing which is about to get me obliterated.

Radiate77 · January 27

Charm has a place in ESO, along with old Fear.

Where it doesn’t belong, is on a large AoE that can be tacked onto any Scribed Skill if you chose Warden to start with.

BioBitter100 · January 27

I agree with the charm part but disagree with asking for RoA nerfs. The set is by far not as strong as it used to be and has good counter play. You hear a loud chain sound and have almost a whole second to block the pull and then another second to block the damage. I personally used it a lot in the past and it´s current iteration has much lower successful pull rates compared to the original version, you literally just have to hold block and you´re fine.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 27

BioBitter100 wrote: »

I agree with the charm part but disagree with asking for RoA nerfs. The set is by far not as strong as it used to be and has good counter play. You hear a loud chain sound and have almost a whole second to block the pull and then another second to block the damage. I personally used it a lot in the past and it´s current iteration has much lower successful pull rates compared to the original version, you literally just have to hold block and you´re fine.

Can you give a reason why it should allow for a subsequent CC after the pull when every other pull method doesn't allow for this? Why would you consider it a nerf to make it respect the rules of PVP combat around CC immunity.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 27

Radiate77 wrote: »

Charm has a place in ESO, along with old Fear.

Where it doesn’t belong, is on a large AoE that can be tacked onto any Scribed Skill if you chose Warden to start with.

Both would be fine if they didn't desync people within textures but agreed that the warden specific element is too readily available and strong based on rules applied to other similar abilities.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 29

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Also, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO just to add some info to your original post, the rule about powerful abilities not having CC options was part of the reason Crystal Blast was removed and turned into Crystal Weapon. It was a hard hitting ranged AoE that stunned.

It was also the reason a cast time was added to some ultimates.

MincMincMinc · January 29

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Charm really does need to go at this point. I used to be of the opinion that it could be a regular CC, but being a random effect that can be tacked onto some of the strongest skills in PvP has slowly changed my mind on this. It needs a complete rework into something else (maybe something to play on chilled or to tie in with whatever ZOS does to warden with the rework next season).

Seen far too many "good" players crutching on the meta charm + animal companions + assassination combo just to farm questers during the current MYM event, and because they are doing this inside the quest buildings there's no way to stop them because the charm AoE covers the entire floor inside these buildings, so there's literally zero counterplay to the charm effect...

Also, @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO just to add some info to your original post, the rule about powerful abilities not having CC options was part of the reason Crystal Blast was removed and turned into Crystal Weapon. It was a hard hitting ranged AoE that stunned.

Yeah the charm effect as it stands could easily be an ultimate. Not some silly every 8s cooldown 70% snare and massive aoe stun tacked onto the strongest healing and buff skill in the game. Same goes for DC and rush of agony, these are all ultimate quality effects that are tacked onto basic skill use with way too short cooldowns.

Zos has always said they dont want powerful abilities to have cc..........which was their reasoning for gutting the old knockup dizzy that had about 36% more damage. But now we have things like offbalance into merciless resolve. Which has 0 telegraph animation because you can medium weave cancel the offbalance into merciless. Merciless does like 60% or more damage than the old dizzy swing btw..........Merciless as of this pts is now the single highest tooltip in the game above all ultimates every 5s.

heimdall14_9 · January 29

the bigger issue i think no one ever points out them running these builds aint out 1vXing they are out 4-12 v 1or2 85% of the time and dealing with outnumbered players ontop of these sets/skills makes most encounters an death sentence as the merciless ( or 2 ) the next things to be hitting you 90% of death recaps theres always an merciless or 2 in it ... and to top it all off when you come upon these players 1v1 they RUN FAST billy baddases when they outnumber you but oh no not an fair fight and i really think thats the part zos doesnt get alone these players aint anything but running pixels but give them 3 or more friends and they'll x down every solo they see for hours lol

xylena · January 29

Null Arca needs to be nuked from PvP as well. Thank you for your time.

danko355 · January 29

Charm is the most annoying feature, buggy, overloaded, disgusting. It’s the single reason why most of the PVP players use wardens as a base class.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 29

xylena wrote: »

Null Arca needs to be nuked from PvP as well. Thank you for your time.

Null Arca could definitely use a damage nerf, but I'd also settle for a telegraph on the target so that you at least have a chance to dodge it. The projectile sounds the exact same as half the other skills or sets in the game so unless you're staring at the person who procced it on you, there's basically no counterplay. For a set that can be procced off-screen from range, that's a problem.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 30

xylena wrote: »

Null Arca needs to be nuked from PvP as well. Thank you for your time.

I understand where you're coming from but tbh I don't really care about 'strong' sets more just things which are actually broken / don't follow combat rules.

If you nerf Null Arca there will just be some other strong set added in its place but getting charmed into a wall or pulled into a 2nd CC is super punishing especially in lag situations.

xylena · January 30

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

don't follow combat rules

some other strong set added in its place

Burst damage procs absolutely categorically do NOT belong in this PvP. If this isn't a "rule" then it needs to be. Their PvP set design philosophy needs serious change, if they keep releasing more sets into PvP designed like Null Arca then all their work on build PvP will mean nothing.

I'm with you that RoA and Charm should be nuked based on their game destroying bugs alone, before even getting to their balance or design issues.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 30

@ZOS_Kevin It would be really nice if the team are able to make some comment on this if possible. At this point I understand it wont change for this PTS but hopefully just a 'feedback seen we'll look into it' is possible?

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · January 30

Strong disagree that Rush of Agony is still a problem set in 2026. I’m not a fan of Cyrodiil’s pull meta either, but after the most recent changes Rush feels genuinely balanced. Like @YandereGirlfriend said earlier, if you’re still getting pulled by Rush consistently in 2026, that’s almost always a skill issue. The pull is heavily telegraphed by how bombers and organized groups time their pushes, and the ground AoE is basically a countdown that tells you exactly when the pull is coming.

Yes, it doesn’t follow standard CC immunity rules, but that’s the entire gimmick of the set. It’s a very low skill check with a clear warning, and failing it should be punished hard because that’s what makes the set matter. If Rush is forced to follow normal CC rules, it needs compensation elsewhere, because otherwise you’re not “balancing” it, you’re making it irrelevant.

The Warden Class Mastery, though, has absolutely overstayed its welcome and is the real problem here. Compared to other class masteries that mostly boil down to a couple stats or modest utility, this one is doing way too much in a PvP environment. An AoE unblockable charm stapled to a massive snare is already excessive on paper, and in practice it’s even worse because the effect feels janky and inconsistent.

The bigger issue is that it’s broken. It clips people into terrain and sometimes even under the map, and a lot of players report that breaking free from it feels unusually unreliable compared to other CCs—whether that’s the broader CC bug showing up more here or something specific to this charm. Either way, the end result is the same: people get stuck, can’t properly respond, and die to something that isn’t just strong, but game-breaking. This mastery should’ve been reworked a long time ago.

So if the question is why these topics aren’t being addressed: Rush doesn’t need to be treated like an emergency right now, but the Warden charm absolutely does.

MincMincMinc · January 30

Rush is definitely closer to being right, however at this point now its just a means to either pull or guaranteed players will be charmed. If a player is near the middle you are practically guaranteed to be stunned and killed unless you have enough movement speed+immunity or streak ready.

Its just the script/subclassing reality that now suddenly we can pair up some ridiculous combinations that can lead to impossible counterplay situations. No wonder 90% of builds these days are stall oriented that just tank and wait for 5 different things like balorgh+acuity+ult+charm+deepfissure to all go off at the same instance.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 30

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Strong disagree that Rush of Agony is still a problem set in 2026. I’m not a fan of Cyrodiil’s pull meta either, but after the most recent changes Rush feels genuinely balanced.

ESO as a game has had CC immunity since launch, adding a set which bypasses that in a PVP environment is not a fun and balanced mechanic. I would rather that they add CC immunity in and then make the set have no target cap on its pull.

Look at Dark Convergence. The set was nerfed from 8s cooldown to 25s cooldown and it provides CC immunity. Yet Rush is a larger pull radius and doesn't give CC immunity.

MincMincMinc · January 30

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Strong disagree that Rush of Agony is still a problem set in 2026. I’m not a fan of Cyrodiil’s pull meta either, but after the most recent changes Rush feels genuinely balanced.

ESO as a game has had CC immunity since launch, adding a set which bypasses that in a PVP environment is not a fun and balanced mechanic. I would rather that they add CC immunity in and then make the set have no target cap on its pull.

Look at Dark Convergence. The set was nerfed from 8s cooldown to 25s cooldown and it provides CC immunity. Yet Rush is a larger pull radius and doesn't give CC immunity.

Its no secret, massive aoe pulls like this are ultimate quality material. Leaving these unchecked just leaves doors open for something else like charm to come along and create abuse situations. Something this potent needs to be controlled either by being on a long cooldown or something very hard to trigger.

If I were to design it youd have the trigger event throw chains out to affected players with a sound effect. Then while the chains are on them, they have ~1s to block or instead CC break the chains off. only CC breaking grants immunity. Failure to do so deals damage to that one player and causes them to be pulled and stunned, which can then be CC broke. The cooldown should be on the caster of the set and should be in the realm of 30s-45s at least. The most important part is that the chains attach to the affected targets before the counterplay window, so players actually know who is affected. "oh *** they got me, i need to do this X"

s3dulo · January 31

This week I was on a mount and road up the stairs from Aleswell toward the farm. At the top I jumped, intending to leap over an on going skirmish and head to Bleakers.There happened to be a charm someone had laid at the top of the stairs As I was mid-air I was charmed right off my mount, having spent zero time actually present in the charm area. I just lol'd at the extreme absurdity of this broken class script. This needs to be dealt with. It is one of the most ridiculously busted abilities in this game.

Null Arca is the other one. It is just far too OP in PVP. I have fought a lot of very good players and my build can handle 99/100 build scenerios. Anytime I get absolutely shredded in a fight against a single player where it felt like I never stood a chance, I always see silvers in my death recap. Everytime. It is clearly a notch above anything else. It simply procs too easily and too often to hit as hard as it does.

It hits harder than Shadow Of the Red Mountain, procs almost as easily as Tarnished Nightmare, has almost zero telegraph, and only a 4 second cool down. If you factor how fast it can proc, it's a 5.5 second cool down. That's 1952 damage that can crit every 5.5 seconds. That's 355 damage per second. That is significantly more single-target DPS than the original Pyrebrand could do before the heavy-handed nerf where it lost 18% damage and the ability to crit.

Being a trial set, Null Arca needs two words added to it: "against monsters".

dcrush · January 31

In my experience, getting pulled by RoA or DC in 2026 isn’t so much skill issue, it’s a lag and server performance issue. I’ve lost track of the amount of times where I’m pulled in from far out of range of the aoe. Just now I got pulled from the back flag of a keep to the front flag by an aoe that was centered on the front flag.

On top of that, most of the time the pull itself happens before the aoe even appears.

emilyhyoyeon · January 31

They changed fear to not cause player movement because of the stuck issues and then proceeded to bring it back it the game LOL

Lord_Hev · January 31

Remove rush of agony and dark convergence completely and make Gravelord Colossus ultimate, shadow ultimate veil of blades, and arcanist ability displacement rune the only ultimates and [ability morph] in the entire game that can do a group wide pull. This reinforces class identities and re-institutes ultimate abilities as actual ultimate abilities that change the tide of battle. Not being cheapened and relegated to 5pc sets anyone can wear and abuse.

And yea the Volundrung ultimate as well but that's an obvious exception, don't think needs mentioning.