We Don't Need A Challenge Difficulty...We Need People To Use Their Brains

Malyore · January 26

Muizer wrote: »

Interesting take by the OP. Personally I always found the need for 'mechanics' to make content harder a crutch. Something that's apparently necessary because the AI of mobs and bosses is too stupid to meet the player on remotely equal terms. A symptom of failure for the game if you ask me. The reason I want veteran overland is because I hope it will make Overland somewhat difficult without resorting to these silly, contrived crutches.

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

We need challenge difficulty and people to use their brains. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I don't know how you can look at footage of a completely naked, statless character AFKing in front of a bear attacking them for a minute and a half and not think there's a problem: https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

I think these two points are big factors. Even though the game has a tutorial at the beginning, the overland combat does nothing but train you to stand still, eat damage, and start blasting away. It's a core piece of its combat that effects dungeons too, and since that lacks, there are wilder and wilder mechanics introduced into the game to force a player to respond and move.
Elder scrolls has never had particularly engaging combat. But ESO definitely lacks.
The bear video speaks for itself in terms of overland difficulty.

That's why IA became so fun to me at first, because it served as a better tutorial than most of the game, imo. The constant increment in difficulty, with slowly introducing more mechanics, made it where I would have to be almost constantly moving and actually fighting for my characters life. That showed me the line of where me and my character would fail. Then I'd rework my build, learn some new methods, go in and get further than before. It turned me into a much better solo player.

Vulkunne · January 26

There is an old saying about being careful whose messes you clean up after.

I can certainly understand the frustration as well as the temptation to 'help'. However, I don't do that anymore. What I learned was most people don't really want 'help' in the token its given. In other words, expectations are not matching up. And that's not helping them or you.

So no, going forward, and for some time now, unless I wrong someone or make an actually mistake, that ain't my glass to sweep up. The help section in this game (available even from in-game) explains 'enough'. There are videos and docs of all shapes and sizes posted online that can help, including some streamers or online personalities who can also help if nothing else by example.

So no, my time is too valuable and there's just too much ground to cover to hold everyone's hand.

Lekjih · January 26

I am so tired of npcs repeatedly screaming at me what to do, as I am doing it, while the other people nearby are not listening. You can lead a player to mechs but you can't make them think, and frankly less npcs shouting the obvious would be nice.

Warhawke_80 · January 26

Soarora wrote: »

Theoretically, challenge modes will force people into learning basic combat as right now you can brute force overland with no spammable, no set bonuses, just light attacks and a dream.

I still want combat tutorials for tank (line of sight & outranging tests, mitigation test, taunt uptime test, etc.), dps (weaving, stand in front of healer, dot/direct/aoe/channeled/st damage types, what a proc is, et.), healer (buff & debuff selection mostly), pvp (resist test, penetration test, break free practice, etc.), and maybe solo (resist/roll dodge test, etc.).

Nothing is going to force people to do anything.... the handful of sweatlords will turn everything up to nightmare and it still won't be hard enough for them and everyone else will play the way they always did....the Big news is going to be the Solo Dungeons and inevitably...the Story Mode Trials.

Soarora · January 26

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Theoretically, challenge modes will force people into learning basic combat as right now you can brute force overland with no spammable, no set bonuses, just light attacks and a dream.

I still want combat tutorials for tank (line of sight & outranging tests, mitigation test, taunt uptime test, etc.), dps (weaving, stand in front of healer, dot/direct/aoe/channeled/st damage types, what a proc is, et.), healer (buff & debuff selection mostly), pvp (resist test, penetration test, break free practice, etc.), and maybe solo (resist/roll dodge test, etc.).

Nothing is going to force people to do anything....

I meant if people choose the higher difficulties they’ll be met with a situation that’ll have them either learning basic combat such as rolling and bashing and work on a build or they’ll turn the difficulty back down.

Warhawke_80 · January 26

Soarora wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Theoretically, challenge modes will force people into learning basic combat as right now you can brute force overland with no spammable, no set bonuses, just light attacks and a dream.

I still want combat tutorials for tank (line of sight & outranging tests, mitigation test, taunt uptime test, etc.), dps (weaving, stand in front of healer, dot/direct/aoe/channeled/st damage types, what a proc is, et.), healer (buff & debuff selection mostly), pvp (resist test, penetration test, break free practice, etc.), and maybe solo (resist/roll dodge test, etc.).

Nothing is going to force people to do anything....

I meant if people choose the higher difficulties they’ll be met with a situation that’ll have them either learning basic combat such as rolling and bashing and work on a build or they’ll turn the difficulty back down.

Yeah it might help some folks but I honestly think that people are going to play the way they want to .....if they don't want to be all sweaty over their games new mechanics won't make any difference.

/shrug

tsaescishoeshiner · 12:07AM

An overland difficulty option could play a role in helping players learn to play and build. (But probably not with group coordination.)

Many new or casual players would be motivated by increased enemy gold (even though it's not much to an experienced player), and that means they couldn't just light attack tigers to death with no healing. Just more of a transition into dungeons/arenas, and even PvP (even slotting a stun and a heal lol).

Rkindaleft · 5:21AM

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Theoretically, challenge modes will force people into learning basic combat as right now you can brute force overland with no spammable, no set bonuses, just light attacks and a dream.

I still want combat tutorials for tank (line of sight & outranging tests, mitigation test, taunt uptime test, etc.), dps (weaving, stand in front of healer, dot/direct/aoe/channeled/st damage types, what a proc is, et.), healer (buff & debuff selection mostly), pvp (resist test, penetration test, break free practice, etc.), and maybe solo (resist/roll dodge test, etc.).

Nothing is going to force people to do anything....

I meant if people choose the higher difficulties they’ll be met with a situation that’ll have them either learning basic combat such as rolling and bashing and work on a build or they’ll turn the difficulty back down.

Yeah it might help some folks but I honestly think that people are going to play the way they want to .....if they don't want to be all sweaty over their games new mechanics won't make any difference.

/shrug

This might be true, however there's a massive difference between being sweaty and just learning what the basic mechanics of the game are.

It's pretty much undeniable that one of the reasons people think this is a problem to begin with is because 90% of the game's content is extremely easy. As soon as you are required to shield, block, interrupt, dodge roll, or cast healing skills while avoiding what's on the ground, the game becomes too hard for many questing players - because 99% of the time you don't need to be doing any of those things to beat the questing content, they are never taught that these things are mandatory if you want to be able to play the game properly outside of it.

These are by no means "sweaty" things. They're literally just the most basic parts of combat people aren't doing.

Blood_again · 12:54PM

arena25 wrote: »

People out here getting hyped over the challenge difficulty coming up...and I'm sitting over here thinking that while getting something you can't faceroll would be nice, what we need more is content that requires people to USE. THEIR. BRAINS.

Just today, Sunday, I encountered:

-Several pugs who could not for the life of them understand the purpose of the siege weapons against the big harvester boss in Writhing Fortress. Even though Walks-In-Ash practically SHOUTS WHAT TO DO AT YOU - I have never seen so many pugs fail to understand basic mechanics. I even tried to show them what to do, and still they couldn't get it.
-Then, just 1 hour later, encountered several players who could not understand a basic world boss mechanic. All you had to do was block or roll dodge. They didn't get it. Required me to come over there and show them that blocking and roll dodging is in fact required.
-And finally, one [snip] player who spent 2 hours whacking at a city guard. Dying, getting up, whacking the guard, rinse and repeat. And then have the audacity to ask in zone chat - anyone want to help me kill this city guard?

As I can see, you blame the random players you saw for their lack of experience, don't you?
Writhing Fortress is designed to mix various players with absolutely different experience. It is OK when some people doesn't know how to play effective. They will play their role in the encounter anyway, and they will obtain their experience with some time.
World boss is the same: the overland encounter where any type of player might join the party. From first timer lvl3 to trifecta+emperor maniac.
Fighting with guards is the good old way to meet the heavy hand of law in Tamriel. It is fun, if you ask me.

Actually, the moment that newbie actions irritate you shows that you also lack some experience.
You'll get used to it after some time really, if you stay with them a bit more

arena25 wrote: »

ZOS, I truly think we do not deserve a challenge difficulty...at least not yet. No, what we need more is content requiring people to actually USE. THEIR. FETCHING. NOGGINS.

So you think that you don't deserve a good content watching the new players do silly things?
Probably you don't deserve a new trial, because 80-90% of the player base have newer done the previous one? And they would do just horrible things being joined that trial

Well, who am I to persuade you?
I'm definitely deserve a trial, a difficult overland and more interesting things to play in ESO. I'm convinced that people I play with deserve it too.
So feel free to deny the offer, but my friends and I will play it when it comes.