Selling the solution: why the crafting bag and additional storage shouldn’t be paywalled

wolfie1.0. · January 17

freespirit wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I already said it several times. Develop quality content we want to pay for. Simple as that. Not have a year of flimsy new content that has to be free.

We both know that's not going to happen. They've gone in a different direction. They're not charging for content anymore, so that's off the table. In fact, it makes retaining subscribers even more important. So what's your solution?

This game is known to be one of the most heavily montetized MMOs there is. It doesn't need to implement every unscrupulous tactic under the sun and get support for doing so.

Okay, but what's your solution? How would you replace the revenue that would be lost due to a significant number of cancellations of ESO+?

Here is what i think would clear things up and solve some issues, i dont know how much of this is doable:
- increase base bank cap to 300 (600 with sub)
- clean up mat lists and consolidate mats using jewelry levels as a transition point.
- increase stack sizes to 400 OR reduce mat consumption costs for crafting.
- add a limited mat storage bag to the upcoming Bazaar using the new trade currency. Make it obtainable, limit how much can be placed in with a cap, and limit how many types of mats can be placed. But make it a bit more accessible.
- include a free tome (premium) access coin for every 3 months subbed to eso+
- reduce crowns received from eso plus per month from 1650 to 1500 to compensate for added value.

Thoughts on these? Just some ideas im shooting out there.

All sound good, except reducing crown numbers per month, I would argue we have already lost enough value from the subs that they need to make it more attractive, I like my crowns!

The basic idea with the crowns was to claw back some value on there end for combining the premium tome benefits. But ya i dont want the crowns to change..

Honestly, i think that if ZOS adjusts how many mats top gear uses and does the jewelry matching for equipment levels, along with increased bank space. That combined with the other changes zos has made the mat situation becomes a lot better and more tolerable.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 26

Just played for a good 3 hours last night, cleared out about 50 slots of my inventory and the amount of times I had to vendor materials after dismantling gear was an absolutely disgusting user experience. I was constantly cycling through my vendor and dismantle assistants barely hanging onto any available space because each dismantle equipment type requires 4 open slots. So often I would go to dismantle with 25-30 slots open, carefully select all the equipment, be short by 1-2 slots, vendor some more crap and do it all over again.

I'm not a freeloader. By definition, no one is in a buy2play game. Ironically I've probably spent more than most ESO+ subscribers on crowns and collector's editions of expansion packs and DLCs over the years. I'd encourage Zenimax Online Studios to bundle in ESO+ benefits with the premium battlepass for the duration of that pass instead as an alternate monetization avenue, or offer a limited version of the crafting bag for free.

AzuraFan · January 26

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I'd encourage Zenimax Online Studios to bundle in ESO+ benefits with the premium battlepass for the duration of that pass instead as an alternate monetization avenue, or offer a limited version of the crafting bag for free.

What about current ESO+ subscribers? We have to pay for the battlepasses too. After having to pay for dungeons we already had access to last year, I doubt subscribers would be on board with your plan.

I get that it's inconvenient to play without the craft bag, but there's a simple solution to that: subscribe.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 26

That's your own battle to fight, why are you getting nickeled and dimed for a battlepass on top of your subscription and everything else they monetize?

ESO+ subscribers are getting crowns and DLC access in addition to those benefits.
The premium battlepass including those benefits minus the DLC and crowns would enrich the premium option, while also offering what we should've always had, a cheaper tier of ESO+ for people who don't need the crowns and already bought the DLCs.

It also provides an alternative to automatic billing and keeps ZOS on their toes, because if the battlepass sucks, no one buys it. Which is how buy2play games should operate. They only get paid if they keep providing value.

AzuraFan wrote: »

I get that it's inconvenient to play without the craft bag, but there's a simple solution to that: subscribe.

Given the backlash to their announcements over the past month, that simple solution isn't satisfactory. There's another alternative people are taking instead of subscribing: "Uninstalling".

I would argue that the crafting bag is counterintuitive to their goal of making money because it drives people away from the game. Stepping over a twenty dollar bill to make a dime as the saying goes. Whaling works, for a while, but eventually you *** everyone else off and develop a bad reputation for egregious monetization.

I know for a fact that I would probably be more likely to subscribe if the game made me feel good about doing it. Right now? Hell no, I'd be rewarding bad business practices.

AzuraFan · January 26

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I know for a fact that I would probably be more likely to subscribe if the game made me feel good about doing it. Right now? Hell no, I'd be rewarding bad business practices.

That's fine, but if you've decided you're not going to subscribe, stop complaining about the inconvenience of playing without the craft bag. It's your choice to play without it. If you don't want the inconvenience, you know what to do.

(I'm all for an alternative solution/monetization for the craft bag that makes sense, but nobody has ever come up with one, except for "make it free" or "make it so that a ton of ESO+ subscribers would unsubscribe if they did it that way.")

AlexanderDeLarge · January 26

Or I could keep complaining about the inconvenience because it's inconvenient? What kind of response is that? I'm on the side of the users, not the company. There's a middle ground to be struck if we're being reasonable, I'm being reasonable, you're telling me to shut up.

The community in this thread has come up with several alternatives, some of them monetized. Including mine. Again, why are we even talking about a subscription in a buy2play game? Guild Wars didn't do that. Guild Wars 2 didn't do that, Destiny didn't do that. If anything, ESO+ should be dropped entirely and it should all be monetized through the cash shop and battlepass.

ESO+ in addition to the cash shop in addition to the battlepass is ZOS having their cake and eating it too. It's the straw that finally broke the camel's back, thus the community response.

Lekjih · January 26

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I hope and believe that this suggestion will never happen, but at the very least those who promote it ought to support their argument with some better funding alternative beyond just "the game is monetised enough already".

I provided the alternative: Give me a version of the game that strips out everything from the cash shop and distributes it as loot. I'll gladly pay $15 a month for a return to what we originally had. My issue with free2play is why am I paying a subscription and still subjected to all the additional monetization avenues of free2play?

Yeah no. I cannot justify $15 a month on gaming. I can occassionally splurge or spend birthday/christmas money on eso+. When I don't have plus, I sell everything or give it to guildies with craftbags. Your 'solution' would lock people like me out of the game entirely.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 26

I understand, but you can see it all from my perspective right? I'm expected to spend the same $15/mo that I was paying in 2014, but now there's thousands of items being sold in the cash shop, including quarterly paid content releases and a separate battlepass.

It feels bad to pay the same amount and still be exposed to all that additional monetization. It's to the point where I wish they ran two versions in parallel, the version that exists currently, and a subscription-only version where everything is included and added to the drop tables/earnable in game.

AzuraFan · January 26

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Or I could keep complaining about the inconvenience because it's inconvenient? What kind of response is that? I'm on the side of the users, not the company. There's a middle ground to be struck if we're being reasonable, I'm being reasonable, you're telling me to shut up.

If you'd rather complain than solve your problem, I suppose that's your choice. I'm different. If there's a solution available, and it's not completely unreasonable (an ESO+ subscription isn't), then I solve my problem. But I understand that people are different.

You know, you don't have to subscribe all year. Even paying for a month a couple of times a year would help you, coupled with the occasional ESO+ trial.

If anything, ESO+ should be dropped entirely and it should all be monetized through the cash shop and battlepass.

That's an interesting proposal. I'd go for them dropping ESO+ and bundling everything with the battlepass. They could have two versions - a battlepass as advertised now, and one at a higher price point that includes ESO+ benefits.

Then again, there are current ESO+ subscribers who won't be interested in buying the battlepasses. The solution of dropping ESO+ and bundling its benefits with the battlepass wouldn't work for them.

mavfin · January 26

Pauwin wrote: »

I think it would help the subscriber numbers if they gave the crafting bag to everyone and added more value in other ways.

They should make the game satisfying to play on its own. If players subscribe to ESO+ it should be from interest and love for the game, rather than frustration.

That's not how this works.

The game company makes the game, and makes their choices.

We, the players can play (and pay), or not. That is the choice we get to make.

We don't get to rewrite how the craft bag works or costs. We don't get to change the rules of the game.

We just get to use it, or walk away. That is the only real choice we get to exercise.

If you think ESO+ is too expensive, you really need to look at your budget, and maybe gaming doesn't fit into it at all. Or find something else to play that has zero costs to it, if that's your thing.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 27

mavfin wrote: »

Pauwin wrote: »

I think it would help the subscriber numbers if they gave the crafting bag to everyone and added more value in other ways.

They should make the game satisfying to play on its own. If players subscribe to ESO+ it should be from interest and love for the game, rather than frustration.

That's not how this works.

The game company makes the game, and makes their choices.

We, the players can play (and pay), or not. That is the choice we get to make.

We don't get to rewrite how the craft bag works or costs. We don't get to change the rules of the game.

We just get to use it, or walk away. That is the only real choice we get to exercise.

If you think ESO+ is too expensive, you really need to look at your budget, and maybe gaming doesn't fit into it at all. Or find something else to play that has zero costs to it, if that's your thing.

You’re right, that’s not how this works, but not in the way you think. This is a live-service game within an entertainment industry, and feedback is part of how those games succeed or fail.

Last we heard, there's 25 million Elder Scrolls Online accounts, but player counts are visibly well below the top performing games in this genre. Meaning the vast majority didn't stick with the game and uninstalled. Monetization is one of the primary complaints. Especially the crafting bag.

In that context, addressing feedback, especially around monetization, isn’t giving into entitlement. It's sensible business.

This isn’t about affordability, it’s about perceived value. Users are more willing to pay when they feel they’re choosing to, not when they feel badgered into doing it. Look at the top performing games on any platform. Think about the games with positive community sentiment behind them. None of them are engaging in these practices.

The majority already made their decision, and that outcome is not playing the game, whether it’s voiced on these forums or not. Dismissing feedback as irrelevant doesn’t change the fact that player retention is itself a form of feedback.

Radiate77 · January 27

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

This isn’t about affordability, it’s about perceived value. Users are more willing to pay when they feel they’re choosing to, not when they feel badgered into doing it. Look at the top performing games on any platform. Think about the games with positive community sentiment behind them. None of them are engaging in these practices.

Can confirm, I am 1000x more likely to spend on a game that doesn’t tell me I have to.

Several of my own personal examples being, the 400 dollar Path of Exile 2 founder back, multiple Warframe Prime packs all around 150 each, several hundreds in Marvel Rivals skins… the list goes on and on.

When a game doesn’t make me feel like I have to spend money, I’m more likely to spend money on supporting the team making it.

That said, I am an active ESO+ Subscriber and will be until I finally stop playing, and I could care less about the Craft Bag as a “premium” benefit.

I’d rather everyone have it.

Emeratis · January 27

Craft bag is one of the major or main draws for subscribing for a lot of people I know and ESO+ has lost a lot of value over the years. That being said, I'm not against making the craft bag free for all as it makes it easier to add new craft loot and lines and other things that could breathe new life into that part of the game. The main problem is, ESO+ if it stays around needs something of comparable value back. Taking from other games I play or have played in the past, they could make the sub give more crowns (or crown gems/season of endeavor/trade bars/etc on top of what it already gives or will give) in exchange for the loss of the craft bag. It could also do something like give a daily crown crate or weekly/monthly bundle of crates for the subscription. I'm not picky about what value is added back in but I wish for something in return for losing the craft bag since I've already seen us lose so much over the years like free eso+ weeks used to give a crown crate for eso+ members a day for logging in during that time. Little stuff like that felt bad to lose. Personally, I would happily take craft bag being free and more cosmetics/premium currency. Other options do not give me things back I value, want, or need. I've played for a very long time and outside of cosmetics and achievements there isn't really anything tangible I chase. Mind you, I don't want exclusive cosmetics for eso+ either, but more opportunities to obtain cosmetics if we're going that route.