PTS Update 49 - Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Dragonknight

SuperMexHero · January 23

Hi, me and my raid group were really excited to see some new sources of highly sought after buffs entering the game such as Minor Courage via "Blood of the Elder Dragon" and Minor Heroism via "Hearthfire".
We tested them both in the PTS and were quite disappointed in both of these abilites lack of usefulness for maintaining these buffs in 12-man content as their targeting for allies is quite awful.

They only affect 6 players and it's always the first 6 people to enter the current map "Chunk" you're in.
What's even more criminal is this even applies to the healing ticks of "Hearthfire" and it's morhps.
It "Smart targets" on the initial tick from the cast but the subsequent ticks do not.
Meaning if you cast it while someone in your 12-man raid group is low on health, all the ticks after the cast for the entire duration of the skill will prioritze them, even if they're at full health and someone else is not.

This means there are situations where you can be dying, standing in this ability, and just die because it's healing people with full health from the "Chunk" priority or the intial "Smart target" cast and not you.
Dying slowly while standing in a healing ability is pretty lame if you ask anyone.

Furthermore this also applies for every ground-targeted healing ability in the game on the live server with the very specific exception of the Illustrious springs morph.
Not even Healing springs or Grand healing "Smart target" on subsequent ticks outside of the initial cast's first tick.

Same goes with the new "Blood of the Elder Dragon" ability, the Minor courage/Major fortitude only goes to the first 6 people in the map "chunk".
It does "Smart target" people with lower health but this means in 12-man content maintaining the Minor courage sourced from this ability is not really viable.
It would be nice to see skills like these prioritize the people closest to the caster and in addition "Smart targeting" people with lower health. That way you can keep up the Minor courage and also heal people in need. (Not saying this is the best solution but I'd think it's a rather simple one)
I understand there are technological limitations involved but this whole "Chunk" priority thing is really plaguing the 12-man content in this game by making so many sources of buffs from abilites and sets borderline useless because they're impractical to maintain on everyone in your raid group.

We always love to see new tools to source these strong buffs in content, just wish we could actually justify using them for once instead of keeping them in the toolbox collecting dust.
A lot people I know in the raiding community share these frustrations.

Anyways Thanks for reading the long post, peace.

MXVIIDREAM · January 23

SuperMexHero wrote: »

Hi, me and my raid group were really excited to see some new sources of highly sought after buffs entering the game such as Minor Courage via "Blood of the Elder Dragon" and Minor Heroism via "Hearthfire".
We tested them both in the PTS and were quite disappointed in both of these abilites lack of usefulness for maintaining these buffs in 12-man content as their targeting for allies is quite awful.

They only affect 6 players and it's always the first 6 people to enter the current map "Chunk" you're in.
What's even more criminal is this even applies to the healing ticks of "Hearthfire" and it's morhps.
It "Smart targets" on the initial tick from the cast but the subsequent ticks do not.
Meaning if you cast it while someone in your 12-man raid group is low on health, all the ticks after the cast for the entire duration of the skill will prioritze them, even if they're at full health and someone else is not.

This means there are situations where you can be dying, standing in this ability, and just die because it's healing people with full health from the "Chunk" priority or the intial "Smart target" cast and not you.
Dying slowly while standing in a healing ability is pretty lame if you ask anyone.

Furthermore this also applies for every ground-targeted healing ability in the game on the live server with the very specific exception of the Illustrious springs morph.
Not even Healing springs or Grand healing "Smart target" on subsequent ticks outside of the initial cast's first tick.

Same goes with the new "Blood of the Elder Dragon" ability, the Minor courage/Major fortitude only goes to the first 6 people in the map "chunk".
It does "Smart target" people with lower health but this means in 12-man content maintaining the Minor courage sourced from this ability is not really viable.
It would be nice to see skills like these prioritize the people closest to the caster and in addition "Smart targeting" people with lower health. That way you can keep up the Minor courage and also heal people in need. (Not saying this is the best solution but I'd think it's a rather simple one)
I understand there are technological limitations involved but this whole "Chunk" priority thing is really plaguing the 12-man content in this game by making so many sources of buffs from abilites and sets borderline useless because they're impractical to maintain on everyone in your raid group.

We always love to see new tools to source these strong buffs in content, just wish we could actually justify using them for once instead of keeping them in the toolbox collecting dust.
A lot people I know in the raiding community share these frustrations.

Anyways Thanks for reading the long post, peace.

Hmm maybe the minor courage could be applied to players in x area idk 15 m or something the buffs is really nice tied to the skill though helps dramatically

MashmalloMan · January 23

Tannus15 wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Passives:
For the most part I do like that the passives seem to be more balanced out, however I think Avalanche is the elephant in the room here. You guys really talked up this passive, like it was going to be central to what makes a DK a DK, but its really not good at all. It takes almost a full minute to get up to speed, then falls off pretty much as soon as a boss has a phase where you aren't dealing damage. I think something with a faster charge up and less falloff would be better, even if the % goes down a little.

Bang on with Avalanche, however I'd also argue it's too weak with a max of 10% damage done. Or at least, as the only dps passive in that skill line, it's not enough.

Look at it this way, if they added +10% crit damage would people be looking at the earthen heart line and be saying "omg, this is too strong!".
I seriously doubt it.

Honestly what ZoS should be doing is pushing the class up until they are thinking "ok, that's a bit much" and then take one step back from there. If it needs nerfing as the other classes get reworked, fine, balance it more then, but leaving it in this very very average state isn't a win for anyone.

I think they took your comment a little too literally lmao.

Seriously, why does DK have crit damage over pretty much any other bonus. It's like they went:

"Hey we gotta buff them up for PVE? They're not performing well. What 2 bonuses can we provde that have nothing to do with the class fantasy we spent the better part of 5 months developing?"

"How about a fat +15% monster damage done and 10% crit damage! Perfect!"

"Thats great, but what about their 300 w/s damage?"

"Remove it, it synergizes too well with Minor Brutality!"

shark_goomba · January 23

Hello,

Just wanted to say thank you for putting a lot of effort into the new update and listening to the community. You guys are doing a great job and many players are looking forward to the future of ESO.

I also wanted to provide some constructive feedback as a long-time DK player (mostly PVP, but also PVE). This is my first time joining to forums, because I have hope that my input might be useful to these great discussions that we are having.

The visuals and sound effects are really cool! You can even boost the sound in terms of impact if possible, to put more weight into the skills. Whip looks great, but it should sound like a scary weapon, not a wet noodle. Most of the visuals and sounds are going in the right direction or already perfect, but some like whip or armor could use more power. You guys got a lot of feedback on the bugs already and are working to resolve them so that's appreciated, nothing to say there.

In terms of balance and power, I have a few comments I really hope you can address. Starting with the new post you guys made about DK power, I was disappointed to see molten whip and corrosive gutted for PVP, after having so much hope.

The Flame lash, searing strike, and breath changes are necessary and good, so well done on that. While I appreciate wanting to split PVP and PVE functionality, you are aware that it is a delicate matter. I'd say put back the WD/SD on molten. Other morphs are fine. The other skills in ardent flame are looking good (I won't comment unless I think there REALLY needs to be a change, I realize that the team is busy and has limited time and the creativity should come from you). The passives look nice, and I am VERY HAPPY with how pure class is being incentivized and supported. I would say though that doing 5% increased flame damage might be better so that it's not all tied to a debuff and its more useful in group settings, but this one is not a huge deal.

For draconic power, talons are still underwhelming in both PVP and PVE, especially the radius for a such a clunky skill to use. I think the buffs to chains are good, but its still not going to be used much in PVP unless it gets just a little more juice (both morphs). For the elder dragon passive, this is a good step in the right direction, but health recovery in both PVP and PVE is very minimal in terms of usefulness. I do like the flavour though, so something along the lines of this, but maybe with much higher numbers would be cool to see (Battle Spirit halves it anyway).

Now moving on to Earthen Heart. This one is a bit of a problem. I'm gonna be straightforward, this skill line is going to be dead on arrival. Especially now that you have nerfed corrosive and petrify (the only usable skills in this line). The passives are also not very useful. The ultigen passive needs a buff. The armor passive should be percentage based or higher. Avalanche needs to build up fast and drop off slower. Mountain giant is a cool idea, maybe give it a little more power. Reliably landing a fully charged heavy in PVP is a big challenge due to how slow and telegraphed it is. For the skills, corrosive is now really bad. Full pen on all damage is good, and i think nerfing to 8% damage taken was enough, 12% is too far. And please bring the damage back. It doesn't have to be as high as it was initially but there needs to be an aoe pressure component to it, removing it from PVP entirely is not a good idea. Corrosive is an expensive ult and you cannot generate ult during it. It needs to be worth its cost. Please make it strong again, theres already a lot of counterplay (going defensive, kiting, etc...). I like the change for igneous but its still not on par with other brutality buffs like netch or surge, same with armor. Right now, storm calling is just superior in every way to earthen heart, plus it gives you streak. Earthen should obviously have less mobility, but more utility and defensiveness. So armor needs to be buffed in some way, like better shield strength, or a minor named buff. One igneous buff needs to be more for solo play, while another more for group, and a little more effectiveness wouldn't hurt. Petrify was useful as an instant stun, and since it was melee range that was its main strength against its weakness, I'd like to see that return or at least make it stronger when you do successfully land it as it is now. Obsidian shield is getting better, but I don't know if its ever gonna be used in pvp as is, needs to be a little more worth the cost and GCD, same with the superheated ward. Ok, basically, this line needs some serious love.

All in all, I am grateful for the attention the team is putting into this, and how open and transparent you are being, as well as listening to the players. I wanna say, good job, thank you for your time, and please take my feedback, as well as others', into consideration for Update 49. 2026 is gonna be ESO's year, if we can get off to a good start!

shark

wilsonwjesse · January 24

I'm still worried about Engulfing Dragonfire and Take Flight.

The channel time is 4.8 and ramps up to 80%. It's basically useless unless you're using Take Flight. This limits the build variety even within the class. It should do the same damage no matter what, but only last 2.4 seconds without Take Flight. This would let you feel good about running it without Take Flight, but to get a nice bonus if you are running Take Flight. The ramping damage doesn't feel good for PvP, PvE, or casual.

The Take Flight nerf for PvP is depressing. I feel like the 10% buff should be for Ferocious Leap since you want to stay and fight longer with that massive Shield which synergizes with a long channel where you can't block. Take Flight should just have more up front damage for a higher risk higher reward playstyle, especially since the fun range is being nerfed.

Also I would love to see more ability specific buffs to monsters or nerfs to monsters/players as a way to balance PvP and PvE.

Protect the Brood feels out of place in ESO lore since dragons don't roost or procreate in ESO. This is a major flavor fail. I would change the name and rework it so it can give support when in a group, but be selfish for solo play. There are so many buffs that give major expedition. This should do something fun like make an AOE fireball around you whenever you take projectile damage, up to once every .5 seconds. Wing Buffet and the morphs should also be reduced to like 35% since 50% makes ranged builds feel like it's impossible to kill them for PvP. 35% Still gives you the upper hand and give more room for the ability to also do other cool things.

One last thing, I don't like the Traumatic Burns elemental and World in Ruin AOE % damage buffs. This goes for all lines. It inevitably leads to anti-synergies in the class. Molten Whip is fire, but not a DoT or AoE so in the future if you buff a class with single target, elemental, or direct damage, then it feels like you have to subclass if your build revolves around whip. This is especially true for Warden's and Winter's Embrace when the rest of the skill lines can't deal frost damage, but Herold of the tome has Tentacular Dread. Combined with Draconic Power World in Ruin, that makes Ice comet and and Tentacular dread hit for 22% more damage. What if next you release a class with 7% direct damage? Now that's 29% increase if you subclass. These types of buffs both limit sub classing and make it way better for mixing certain classes. They don't encourage pure classing or balanced and fun sub classing creativity. They reinforce rigid subclass metas.

wilsonwjesse · January 24

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Really dislike moving minor brutality out of Earthen Heart. If you have to move it put it in Ardent Flame instead of Draconic, as I don't see Draconic being a skill line a DK DPS is necessarily going to want. The group alternative is minor sorcery from Templar which has its own issues.

With the nerf to Stone Giant, changes in stamimna recovery, and moving minor brutality I am not sure why I'd want to be a DK tank any more. Seems to be losing identity instead of improving it from tank perspective. The only good change I see for tank (beyond healing perhaps) is moving major resolve to Earthen Heart, but that won't matter on trial tank (even many dungeon tanks) because we use Frost Cloak anyway.

That's literally the point. They need to balance the skill lines. That's the whole point of this whole class update. It should encourage you to choose all the lines as they all have something to offer for DPS, Healing, and Tanks, and PvP AND they work together more cohesively than other class lines. They did a surprisingly good job at this, with some room for improvements that I listed above.

I'm hopeful after the other class updates, sub classing will be creative and fun rather than rigid and mandatory. By balancing the lines, they make pure classing a valid strategy, and they make sub classing more fun and creative with more variety.

Ways they can improve is to remove the certain types of damage buffs like AoE/dot and Fire, from DK, and Frost, Shock, and Physical from others.

YandereGirlfriend · January 24

SuperMexHero wrote: »

Hi, me and my raid group were really excited to see some new sources of highly sought after buffs entering the game such as Minor Courage via "Blood of the Elder Dragon" and Minor Heroism via "Hearthfire".
We tested them both in the PTS and were quite disappointed in both of these abilites lack of usefulness for maintaining these buffs in 12-man content as their targeting for allies is quite awful.

They only affect 6 players and it's always the first 6 people to enter the current map "Chunk" you're in.
What's even more criminal is this even applies to the healing ticks of "Hearthfire" and it's morhps.
It "Smart targets" on the initial tick from the cast but the subsequent ticks do not.
Meaning if you cast it while someone in your 12-man raid group is low on health, all the ticks after the cast for the entire duration of the skill will prioritze them, even if they're at full health and someone else is not.

This means there are situations where you can be dying, standing in this ability, and just die because it's healing people with full health from the "Chunk" priority or the intial "Smart target" cast and not you.
Dying slowly while standing in a healing ability is pretty lame if you ask anyone.

Furthermore this also applies for every ground-targeted healing ability in the game on the live server with the very specific exception of the Illustrious springs morph.
Not even Healing springs or Grand healing "Smart target" on subsequent ticks outside of the initial cast's first tick.

Same goes with the new "Blood of the Elder Dragon" ability, the Minor courage/Major fortitude only goes to the first 6 people in the map "chunk".
It does "Smart target" people with lower health but this means in 12-man content maintaining the Minor courage sourced from this ability is not really viable.
It would be nice to see skills like these prioritize the people closest to the caster and in addition "Smart targeting" people with lower health. That way you can keep up the Minor courage and also heal people in need. (Not saying this is the best solution but I'd think it's a rather simple one)
I understand there are technological limitations involved but this whole "Chunk" priority thing is really plaguing the 12-man content in this game by making so many sources of buffs from abilites and sets borderline useless because they're impractical to maintain on everyone in your raid group.

We always love to see new tools to source these strong buffs in content, just wish we could actually justify using them for once instead of keeping them in the toolbox collecting dust.
A lot people I know in the raiding community share these frustrations.

Anyways Thanks for reading the long post, peace.

Thank you so much for testing this!

Big agree that there needs to be a better solution found to this issue.

Personofsecrets · January 24

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Really dislike moving minor brutality out of Earthen Heart. If you have to move it put it in Ardent Flame instead of Draconic, as I don't see Draconic being a skill line a DK DPS is necessarily going to want. The group alternative is minor sorcery from Templar which has its own issues.

With the nerf to Stone Giant, changes in stamimna recovery, and moving minor brutality I am not sure why I'd want to be a DK tank any more. Seems to be losing identity instead of improving it from tank perspective. The only good change I see for tank (beyond healing perhaps) is moving major resolve to Earthen Heart, but that won't matter on trial tank (even many dungeon tanks) because we use Frost Cloak anyway.

That's literally the point. They need to balance the skill lines. That's the whole point of this whole class update. It should encourage you to choose all the lines as they all have something to offer for DPS, Healing, and Tanks, and PvP AND they work together more cohesively than other class lines. They did a surprisingly good job at this, with some room for improvements that I listed above.

I'm hopeful after the other class updates, sub classing will be creative and fun rather than rigid and mandatory. By balancing the lines, they make pure classing a valid strategy, and they make sub classing more fun and creative with more variety.

Ways they can improve is to remove the certain types of damage buffs like AoE/dot and Fire, from DK, and Frost, Shock, and Physical from others.

At the end of the 2 year update, we will see that the game will be all about sub-classing more than ever before and the designers will find a new non-tent solution to the problem that they made.

YandereGirlfriend · January 24

Wanted to signal-boost a neat idea that I saw while watching a recent Creative Excuses video on the DK changes:

Adding a small Direct Heal component to Burning ticks that, if you are leaning into the Burning status, can collectively function as a viable self-heal. Like a more specialized version of Critical Surge for DKs but uncapped in procs per second and healing for a relatively token amount per proc. To further reward DKs for spreading the Burning effect, as fits the class power fantasy.

Would fit easily into the Combustion passive. Or wherever it would be most balanced.

SugaComa · January 24

Can we look at the stupid name we have for wing buffet, seriously sounds like all you can eat chicken feast ...

I'm officially requesting change to Maarselok's Gale 🐉
(Earthen Heart · Active Ability · Cost: 3780 Magicka · Cooldown: 18s)

Summon the spectral azure wings of Maarselok, the Scalebreaker blight-dragon, to unleash a corrupting gale! Knocks back all enemies within 6m by 4m (1s delay), while reducing your projectile damage taken by 50% for 6s + Major Expedition (20% speed) for 4s.

Epic visuals: Blighted wind vortex erupts from massive, floating dragon wings—pure Scalebreaker DLC flex!

Morph 1: Blighted Gale (PvE/PvP Damage Focus)
Infuse the gale with Maarselok's azureblight!
Keeps full knockback + personal shield/Expedition.
Adds 8k Disease Damage DoT (scales w/ Spell Dmg) over 10s to all knocked-back foes—stacks blight corruption for DOT DK hell.
"Channel the blight-dragon's fury to scatter and fester your enemies!"

Morph 2: Scalecaller Winds (Group Support/Mobility)
Invoke the storm winds of Scalecaller Peak (nod to Zaan/Thurvokun cult)!
Sacrifices knockback for group utility: Allies in 12m get 25% projectile reduction (6s) + Minor Protection (8% dmg reduction, 20s).
You + group still get Major Expedition (4s).
Lower cost (3240 Magicka) for spam.
"Call ancient dragon winds to shield your brood and charge into battle!"

GloatingSwine · January 24

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Really dislike moving minor brutality out of Earthen Heart. If you have to move it put it in Ardent Flame instead of Draconic, as I don't see Draconic being a skill line a DK DPS is necessarily going to want. The group alternative is minor sorcery from Templar which has its own issues.

With the nerf to Stone Giant, changes in stamimna recovery, and moving minor brutality I am not sure why I'd want to be a DK tank any more. Seems to be losing identity instead of improving it from tank perspective. The only good change I see for tank (beyond healing perhaps) is moving major resolve to Earthen Heart, but that won't matter on trial tank (even many dungeon tanks) because we use Frost Cloak anyway.

That's literally the point. They need to balance the skill lines. That's the whole point of this whole class update. It should encourage you to choose all the lines as they all have something to offer for DPS, Healing, and Tanks, and PvP AND they work together more cohesively than other class lines. They did a surprisingly good job at this, with some room for improvements that I listed above.

I'm hopeful after the other class updates, sub classing will be creative and fun rather than rigid and mandatory. By balancing the lines, they make pure classing a valid strategy, and they make sub classing more fun and creative with more variety.

Ways they can improve is to remove the certain types of damage buffs like AoE/dot and Fire, from DK, and Frost, Shock, and Physical from others.

That's not how it works though. They don't just need "something to offer" they need to have enough concentrated value in each to compete with every other skill line in the game. Right now, before these changes, Earthen Heart has that for tanks. After the changes no Dragonknight skill line will have enough value in one line to compete with Winter's Embrace or Soldier of Apocrypha and no value as a third with those already picked.

It is a dead class for tanking after these changes. The number of viable skill lines on it is going from one to zero, and a class with zero viable skill lines cannot be used as a base and will not be picked into from others

And it doesn't even get better as a pureclass, in fact it's actually worse because it loses the consistent value of Helping Hands when using magicka skills for a much more situational stamina restore on heavy attack, the value of Stagger is going down, and the ultimate generation and minor brutality are getting split up instead of both being activated by skills you are already incentivised to use regularly (Stone Giant).

These changes are a nerf to DK for pureclass tanking and delete it from subclass tanking, and they don't seem to have addressed this in any of the responses, focusing only on its DD performance.

Red99 · January 24

The changes you want to put in week 3 of the pts regarding Molten Whip are a big nerf in general for DK in pvp, this skill is not overperfoming please reconsider

MXVIIDREAM · January 24

Red99 wrote: »

The changes you want to put in week 3 of the pts regarding Molten Whip are a big nerf in general for DK in pvp, this skill is not overperfoming please reconsider

It’s also going to make people either drop molten whip completely or other side is that they will keep molten whip and use the arcanist beam instead
I genuinely believe they’re trying to experiment and that’s absolutely fine but it just doesn’t always work out well that’s the idea of an experiment and that’s fine but this one they’ve got wrong so should be reverted as soon as possible
So things that in my opinion need to change and the changed for them below

Molten whip
needs to be reverted back to how it was weapon damage and spell damage 100 per stack 3 stacks include 3% damage done per stack to monsters

avalance
Great great idea, sadly a little ineffective in combat bosses immune phases and just combat in general make this a little redundant I propose 2 seconds to build stacks 4 seconds of no damage to lose them
Much better uptime for 90% of combat this alone could fix a lot of the underwhelming dk performance in most pve scenarios

blessings of the peak
Adding crit damage to this is a brilliant idea however for the sake of all roles I believe it should be crit damage and crit healing this benefits both support dps and tanks

I wouldn’t mind also seeing 300/600crit resistance rank 1 and 2 added into blessings of the peak, with PvP the way it is and how impen got the treatment it did a while ago I would like to see every class also now have crit resistance worked into them over the refreshes and I think this is the correct skill line to work it into
I think it would go a great way to slowing down some of this insane burst we have reached in PvP
I picked the numbers out of my own experience it’s roughly equal to the champion point tree cp aswel as 600 Crit Resistance ≈ ~9% reduction in incoming crit bonus damage so it seems a fair number to me

Appreciate you reading

Including these changes I’m ecstatic if dk went live exactly as is including the additional pts notes

Personofsecrets · January 24

GloatingSwine wrote: »

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Really dislike moving minor brutality out of Earthen Heart. If you have to move it put it in Ardent Flame instead of Draconic, as I don't see Draconic being a skill line a DK DPS is necessarily going to want. The group alternative is minor sorcery from Templar which has its own issues.

With the nerf to Stone Giant, changes in stamimna recovery, and moving minor brutality I am not sure why I'd want to be a DK tank any more. Seems to be losing identity instead of improving it from tank perspective. The only good change I see for tank (beyond healing perhaps) is moving major resolve to Earthen Heart, but that won't matter on trial tank (even many dungeon tanks) because we use Frost Cloak anyway.

That's literally the point. They need to balance the skill lines. That's the whole point of this whole class update. It should encourage you to choose all the lines as they all have something to offer for DPS, Healing, and Tanks, and PvP AND they work together more cohesively than other class lines. They did a surprisingly good job at this, with some room for improvements that I listed above.

I'm hopeful after the other class updates, sub classing will be creative and fun rather than rigid and mandatory. By balancing the lines, they make pure classing a valid strategy, and they make sub classing more fun and creative with more variety.

Ways they can improve is to remove the certain types of damage buffs like AoE/dot and Fire, from DK, and Frost, Shock, and Physical from others.

That's not how it works though. They don't just need "something to offer" they need to have enough concentrated value in each to compete with every other skill line in the game. Right now, before these changes, Earthen Heart has that for tanks. After the changes no Dragonknight skill line will have enough value in one line to compete with Winter's Embrace or Soldier of Apocrypha and no value as a third with those already picked.

It is a dead class for tanking after these changes. The number of viable skill lines on it is going from one to zero, and a class with zero viable skill lines cannot be used as a base and will not be picked into from others

And it doesn't even get better as a pureclass, in fact it's actually worse because it loses the consistent value of Helping Hands when using magicka skills for a much more situational stamina restore on heavy attack, the value of Stagger is going down, and the ultimate generation and minor brutality are getting split up instead of both being activated by skills you are already incentivised to use regularly (Stone Giant).

These changes are a nerf to DK for pureclass tanking and delete it from subclass tanking, and they don't seem to have addressed this in any of the responses, focusing only on its DD performance.

This is absolutely correct.

Furthermore, the changes are updending of all kinds of different playstyles and disrespectful to those who enjoy those playstyles. We will get nothing for these troubles.

The designers are doing a bad thing and I hope that they understand that sentiment even if it's just for a moment. I was thinking it would be funny for other classes to get depressing nerfs too, but I have to change my belief. No players should be treated as bad as those of us who have used DK as a core of our ESO experience and now sit through this indignity.

HalfDragoness · January 24

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Wanted to signal-boost a neat idea that I saw while watching a recent Creative Excuses video on the DK changes:

Adding a small Direct Heal component to Burning ticks that, if you are leaning into the Burning status, can collectively function as a viable self-heal. Like a more specialized version of Critical Surge for DKs but uncapped in procs per second and healing for a relatively token amount per proc. To further reward DKs for spreading the Burning effect, as fits the class power fantasy.

Would fit easily into the Combustion passive. Or wherever it would be most balanced.

I have wanted this since I first made a DK. It's the ultimate power fantasy that thae more everything else is on fire, the more I heal. >:D

MXVIIDREAM · January 24

HalfDragoness wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Wanted to signal-boost a neat idea that I saw while watching a recent Creative Excuses video on the DK changes:

Adding a small Direct Heal component to Burning ticks that, if you are leaning into the Burning status, can collectively function as a viable self-heal. Like a more specialized version of Critical Surge for DKs but uncapped in procs per second and healing for a relatively token amount per proc. To further reward DKs for spreading the Burning effect, as fits the class power fantasy.

Would fit easily into the Combustion passive. Or wherever it would be most balanced.

I have wanted this since I first made a DK. It's the ultimate power fantasy that thae more everything else is on fire, the more I heal. >:D

Burning embers ironically this is also really good for tanks along with a lot of the changes that have been made people just can’t see it idk why they must have not been on pts and tested

Ustavshiy · January 25

"Is there anything else you would like to share about the DK changes?"
The new visual effects are disgusting and actually don't fit into the visual style of the game. For example: the brutality buff seems to be taken from WoW or old parts of God of War, which I personally don't like. Overall, the visual reworking of DK (IMHO) It looks like it's taken from asian or mobile games. Those who did this should be fired.

Sordidfairytale · January 25

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

avalanche
Great great idea, sadly a little ineffective in combat bosses immune phases and just combat in general make this a little redundant I propose 2 seconds to build stacks 4 seconds of no damage to lose them
Much better uptime for 90% of combat this alone could fix a lot of the underwhelming dk performance in most pve scenarios

I agree, but similar to your suggestion for Blessing of the Peak, for the sake of all roles, Avalanche should also increase healing done as well as reducing the damage the DK takes, while in combat or while taking damage.

wilsonwjesse · January 25

GloatingSwine wrote: »

That's not how it works though. They don't just need "something to offer" they need to have enough concentrated value in each to compete with every other skill line in the game.

I can agree with this. I think they were successful at moving it in that direction, but they need to go further and really make sure each line has something uniquely invaluable to offer each: DD, tank, healer, and PvP.

I am a DK main btw. I like these changes, but I agree more needs to be done at least until the other lines are balanced and there are no allstar lines to choose from for DD, Healing, Tanking, and PvP at the end of the 2 years (although that's scary because people aren't going to want to give up temporary buffs).

wilsonwjesse · January 25

GloatingSwine wrote: »

That's not how it works though. They don't just need "something to offer" they need to have enough concentrated value in each to compete with every other skill line in the game.

I can agree with this. I think they were successful at moving it in that direction, but they need to go further and really make sure each line has something uniquely invaluable to offer each: DD, tank, healer, and PvP.

I am a DK main btw. I like these changes, but I agree more needs to be done at least until the other lines are balanced and there are no allstar lines to choose from for DD, Healing, Tanking, and PvP at the end of the 2 years (although that's scary because people aren't going to want to give up temporary buffs).

But actually, if they buff each class sufficiently with power creep, then there won't be a need to revert any buffs. I think they should go big with the DK buffs, but they need to just buff the abilities not add random percent damage buffs or certain type of damage buffs like fire or AoE which restricts playstyle within the class and encourages certain type of subclassing like Draconic with Storm Calling.

GloatingSwine · January 25

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

GloatingSwine wrote: »

That's not how it works though. They don't just need "something to offer" they need to have enough concentrated value in each to compete with every other skill line in the game.

I can agree with this. I think they were successful at moving it in that direction, but they need to go further and really make sure each line has something uniquely invaluable to offer each: DD, tank, healer, and PvP.

I am a DK main btw. I like these changes, but I agree more needs to be done at least until the other lines are balanced and there are no allstar lines to choose from for DD, Healing, Tanking, and PvP at the end of the 2 years (although that's scary because people aren't going to want to give up temporary buffs).

I literally just explained how they did not do that and did the opposite. Dragonknight is worse for tanks and no better for healers than it was, which was unusable, because the skills that sounds interesting for their buffs don't actually consistently provide those buffs as explained above.

And as a DD it's still worse than Arcanist, it's worse than Arcanist at using its own buffs!

They cannot balance things based on a hypothetical state two years in the future, they need to balance every class as competitive now in the current game with the current power of a fully subclassed alternative with the best possible picks in mind.

Personofsecrets · January 25

I wouldn't be surprised if the game goes into maintenance mode in less than two years.

The Elder Scrolls Legends released a year long road map of card releases when the designers already new that the game would be in maintenance mode by that time.

Development was reluctant to give soul gem refunds in exchange for cards that they nerfed, a standard practice for digital card gaming platforms, despite this knowledge of maintenance mode. I want to think that, deep down, they are well meaning individuals, so it's interesting to think about what could have been influencing them toward making decisions that were to the detriment of their fans.

It's pretty heinous that people were mislead with that road map. We may not know what the future has in store for ESO, but these times seem volatile. We could get a couple more half-baked class-refreshes and, boom, be in maintenance mode for a few years before the plug is pulled. Again, I have to think that those who are currently making choices for the game are well-meaning, but the changes that are about to happen for DK don't inspire confidence in their vision or the future of the game.

Enkil84 · January 25

Hi,
we were just checking out, how the new DK effects look for 3rd persons.
E.g. if I'm tank what all effects I'll get to notice, while having additional effects from allies turned off.

My big request, please rework that setting, e.g. the new fire beam from DK is taking far too much capacity.
From players pov the new skill effect is nice, but for others in group & especially as Tank this is an awful effect and puts way too much distraction into the game fights.

GloatingSwine · January 25

Enkil84 wrote: »

Hi,
we were just checking out, how the new DK effects look for 3rd persons.
E.g. if I'm tank what all effects I'll get to notice, while having additional effects from allies turned off.

My big request, please rework that setting, e.g. the new fire beam from DK is taking far too much capacity.
From players pov the new skill effect is nice, but for others in group & especially as Tank this is an awful effect and puts way too much distraction into the game fights.

The Jeff Days return.

wilsonwjesse · January 25

GloatingSwine wrote: »

I literally just explained how they did not do that and did the opposite. Dragonknight is worse for tanks and no better for healers than it was, which was unusable, because the skills that sounds interesting for their buffs don't actually consistently provide those buffs as explained above.

And as a DD it's still worse than Arcanist, it's worse than Arcanist at using its own buffs!

They cannot balance things based on a hypothetical state two years in the future, they need to balance every class as competitive now in the current game with the current power of a fully subclassed alternative with the best possible picks in mind.

And I agreed. I they need to make each skill line much better at every aspect. However, you can’t do that without making DK op for PvP where DD, Healing, and Tanking all matter because it is competing with dedicated skill lines which are the best of the best and completely unbalanced. You’re never going to have a non-op DK that is on par with subclassing until you balance the other skill lines.

Realistically they should do this all at once. And do the animation updates later (I don’t even think the animation updates are widely liked).

BattleAxe · January 25

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

GloatingSwine wrote: »

I literally just explained how they did not do that and did the opposite. Dragonknight is worse for tanks and no better for healers than it was, which was unusable, because the skills that sounds interesting for their buffs don't actually consistently provide those buffs as explained above.

And as a DD it's still worse than Arcanist, it's worse than Arcanist at using its own buffs!

They cannot balance things based on a hypothetical state two years in the future, they need to balance every class as competitive now in the current game with the current power of a fully subclassed alternative with the best possible picks in mind.

And I agreed. I they need to make each skill line much better at every aspect. However, you can’t do that without making DK op for PvP where DD, Healing, and Tanking all matter because it is competing with dedicated skill lines which are the best of the best and completely unbalanced. You’re never going to have a non-op DK that is on par with subclassing until you balance the other skill lines.

Realistically they should do this all at once. And do the animation updates later (I don’t even think the animation updates are widely liked).

Issue is not enough workers to spread out and rework every class at once. With way devs are handling class reworks is the best course we could hope for whether it’s ideal or not. I have seen people assuming this class refresh will take 2 yrs which I highly doubt will be 2 yrs maybe1.5 yrs as after we get thru the classes this yr the reamining4 nightblade templar necromancer and Arcanist will likely not need as much especially necro and Arf as they are the newest classes. Chances are after dk, warden, and sorc the remaining classes may be done 2 at a time likely one of the base game classes with one of the dlc classes nightblade necro or Templar Arcanist most likely. Mind you I’m speculating but I definitely believe after this yr we will likely see increase in rework speed/efficiency.

tomofhyrule · January 25

Hi all,

Here are my feelings on the kit after week 2 of PTS and considering the upcoming balance changes:

ARDENT FLAME

Dragonknight Standard
- Shifting Standard: Add a ramping DoT to this, either by increasing the damage while the standard is unmoved, or by increasing damage for enemies who manage to stay in the area. This may make it feel better for DDs who prefer the old use case of Standard in PvE scenarios.
  Also, the name is not as cool as the name of the other morph, and something suggesting "Warlord" or "Domination" might fit better
Lava Whip
- Even as much as I hate Subclassing, tying empowerments to being a DK at base does feel icky. It does read a bit like the dev comment is suggesting that tying those buffs to being a base class are temporary while the Class Refresh is ongoing and those will be reworked once the Refresh is done, but even in that case I'd like to see it explicitly stated in the notes that the buffs based on being a baseclass DK are going to definitely be removed in the future.
Searing Strike
- Searing Claw: recolor the icon to red. Honestly, all three icons for this skill should be reworked to be a claw instead of a sword.
Core of Flame
- All morphs: the regen does feel slightly on the higher side. Also, if the regen of each is recalculating every tick, will that leave the server with a lot of calculations in which case a snapshot method would be preferred?
- Heart of Flame: Move the increased damage of the final explosion here instead
- Soul of Flame: I'd love to see this return to the effects of Live's Deep Breath with a slightly modified setup that focuses the healing and AoE interrupt - Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, making a tether effect from nearby enemies and healing you for [X] per enemy hit. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing X% of the healing taken as Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
Hearthfire
- All morphs: change the cost to a fixed cost, as no other ground effects have a cost-per-second. This skill is also much more expensive than comparable skills (a rank 4 Illustrious Healing is also a 15s 8m heal for only 3510 mag, instead of the 5265 that Hearthfire comes out to), so the cost should be reduced.
- Fire Keeper: Add the protection from the Hearth and Home morph, but have the buffs fall off on those outside of the area much faster
- Hearth and Home: Revert the effects to Eruption as on live. Keep the new animation, reduce the radius to 5m, have it deal damage instantly with the fireball, do a DoT to enemies inside, and snare them by 70%
DRACONIC POWER
- Dragonfire Breath
  - Disintegrating Dragonfire: Change the debuff from Major Breach to a unique armor debuff, which could help the lack of penetration in the DK kit and also allow this to be useful for supports to apply debuffs to enemies, as Major Breach is a very common debuff.
    Also revert the icon to the pre-U10 Burning Breath icon, shown below:
    It may even make more sense for the old icon to be the base and the current base icon be for the Disintegrating morph since it is more impressive.
  - Engulfing Dragonfire: Convert this to a cost-per-second like other similar channelled abilities
- Elder Dragon passive: Also give minor Sorcery to the group to account for hybridization

EARTHEN HEART

Magma Armor
- Base and Magma Shell morphs: Allow the player to generate Ultimate while these are active. To prevent Magma spam in the Infinite Archive, give the skill a cooldown of 60s. However, being unable to generate Ultimate in group content does hurt the use of these in Dungeons and Trials, and the increased duration of the skills from Live (15 vs 10 seconds) means that this is a nerf to Ultimate generation from Live as players go even longer without gaining Ultimate.
- Corrosive Armor: The restriction for the aura to only damage monsters and the reduced damage limit are too much for PvP. It should be one or the other (or even scale the damage as in "does X Flame damage to enemies within 8m, and 300% more to monsters).
  Also change the icon to the base morph icon, while the new base skill gets the old pre-U10 icon for Corrosive Armor, shown below:
  "Corrosive" may also still imply poison damage, so a new name involving "Melting" or "Lava" may be more appropriate.
Avalanche passive: This name evokes snow. Change the name to "Rockslide," which still has the same meaning but matches the line better.