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Necromancer class refresh
Having seen the DK refresh and seeing the positive changes they are making whilst listening to feedback adversely leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as i truly feel necromancers should have been higher on the list of refreshes. Honestly, necromancers both fail from a lore perspective and gameplay perspective. Necros are tedious to manage with a slew of dots and short duration abilities.
Now I'm not here to just *** and moan but actually give logical reasons and ideas to hopefully initiate a conversation. Which is the inherent beauty of having an online forum and people who love this game. So please remain respectful and lets pool are intellect together and hopefully provide some material for the devs, in hopes they take it into consideration.
Necromancers in the lore don't reanimate the dead in the traditional sense, the lore in the ES universe goes into detail on necromancy works. When a person dies their worldly body remains on mundus and their soul can go to different places, whether its the Aedra realms, Daedric realms or more importantly the Dreamsleeve They reach into the soul cairn/dreamsleeve and use a soul that then inhabits a cadaver to do their bidding and do a myriad of other things like soul gems, Daedric summoning into bodies etc. But to stay concise lets focus on soul magic. I think this is a very untraversed area. Most games take the shortcut with Necromancy but ESO to an extent, with Mannimarco and your origin as a vestige did a good job with the depiction of necromancy and soul magic.
But utterly dropped the ball when it came to player classes. So going off the back of soul magic and how it works in ES, for the necromancy rework i would love to see a completely unique CLASS SPECIFIC stats. which would not only help in regards to subclassing and identity but also to raise ESO classes to a standard befitting its revival with all the new great changes they're already making.
So what new stats am i taking about? I would love them to incorporate soul damage and a new stack called dread. Lets use DK as an example, dragon guy right? So makes sense they do flame damage with a sprinkle of earth magic for flavor. (with the new rework) the more DK abilities you use, you gain fury to then use on a fiery lash increasing its power and impact. Which makes sense for class pertaining to martial prowess. Necromancers should have a similar mechanic but its called dread. The more necromantic magic you use, the more dread that stacks and with those stacks you can do increasing damage/healing etc. And a new damage type which is unique to necromancers that does soul damage akin to flame/ice/storm etc. I would not like necromancers being relegated to the disease class. That should belong to NB alongside poison.
This all falls in line to then introduce a wholly different "Pet" mechanics system. Rather then just raising the dead who crawl from the earth, which as established necromancers do not do in the ES universe. Instead you can raise the fallen dead. And depending on the type of fallen enemy you have chosen to raise a variety of strategies and complexity that gives identity to the necros of ESO can flourish, from choosing between melee/range/magic mobs etc and you get to keep them till you recycle and change (Yes i know this sounds like a lot of work, but its entirely worth it and the argument its too much so not possible is a mute argument. If you want this game to flourish, long and arduous effort is needed.) So what happens if there is no corpse? Well your necromancer has soul gems, as per the ES lore of how soul gems work, can use it when no corpse is near by that last a certain duration. This creates a spectral minion, but with different mechanics which adds flavor and autonomy to necromancy as well as situational awareness and combat depth. All the while, soul gem/other necromancy abilities gives stacks of soul damage when attacking an enemy which Increase dot damage depending on number of stacks and raising bodies awards dread stacks (relegated to main Necros like the new dk damage bonuses only working for DKs not subclasses) which can be used to either incite a AoE fear for mobs or rotating minor negative effects on bosses and then consumed with an ability for increased direct damage increasing the damage for abilities such as a variant of blastbones/flame skull/scythe etc.
All in all, i want Necros to be unique and actually incite fear, not just be buff timer rotation class. All the while following the great lore of the ES universe. Necromancers are an all time favorite class of mine across many games and i want ESO to do them justice. This is just some of the ideas that i had, and i wanted to share with this forum. I would love to see what other peoples ideas are and what they would like to see what they would come up with.
Now I'm not here to just *** and moan but actually give logical reasons and ideas to hopefully initiate a conversation. Which is the inherent beauty of having an online forum and people who love this game. So please remain respectful and lets pool are intellect together and hopefully provide some material for the devs, in hopes they take it into consideration.
Necromancers in the lore don't reanimate the dead in the traditional sense, the lore in the ES universe goes into detail on necromancy works. When a person dies their worldly body remains on mundus and their soul can go to different places, whether its the Aedra realms, Daedric realms or more importantly the Dreamsleeve They reach into the soul cairn/dreamsleeve and use a soul that then inhabits a cadaver to do their bidding and do a myriad of other things like soul gems, Daedric summoning into bodies etc. But to stay concise lets focus on soul magic. I think this is a very untraversed area. Most games take the shortcut with Necromancy but ESO to an extent, with Mannimarco and your origin as a vestige did a good job with the depiction of necromancy and soul magic.
But utterly dropped the ball when it came to player classes. So going off the back of soul magic and how it works in ES, for the necromancy rework i would love to see a completely unique CLASS SPECIFIC stats. which would not only help in regards to subclassing and identity but also to raise ESO classes to a standard befitting its revival with all the new great changes they're already making.
So what new stats am i taking about? I would love them to incorporate soul damage and a new stack called dread. Lets use DK as an example, dragon guy right? So makes sense they do flame damage with a sprinkle of earth magic for flavor. (with the new rework) the more DK abilities you use, you gain fury to then use on a fiery lash increasing its power and impact. Which makes sense for class pertaining to martial prowess. Necromancers should have a similar mechanic but its called dread. The more necromantic magic you use, the more dread that stacks and with those stacks you can do increasing damage/healing etc. And a new damage type which is unique to necromancers that does soul damage akin to flame/ice/storm etc. I would not like necromancers being relegated to the disease class. That should belong to NB alongside poison.
This all falls in line to then introduce a wholly different "Pet" mechanics system. Rather then just raising the dead who crawl from the earth, which as established necromancers do not do in the ES universe. Instead you can raise the fallen dead. And depending on the type of fallen enemy you have chosen to raise a variety of strategies and complexity that gives identity to the necros of ESO can flourish, from choosing between melee/range/magic mobs etc and you get to keep them till you recycle and change (Yes i know this sounds like a lot of work, but its entirely worth it and the argument its too much so not possible is a mute argument. If you want this game to flourish, long and arduous effort is needed.) So what happens if there is no corpse? Well your necromancer has soul gems, as per the ES lore of how soul gems work, can use it when no corpse is near by that last a certain duration. This creates a spectral minion, but with different mechanics which adds flavor and autonomy to necromancy as well as situational awareness and combat depth. All the while, soul gem/other necromancy abilities gives stacks of soul damage when attacking an enemy which Increase dot damage depending on number of stacks and raising bodies awards dread stacks (relegated to main Necros like the new dk damage bonuses only working for DKs not subclasses) which can be used to either incite a AoE fear for mobs or rotating minor negative effects on bosses and then consumed with an ability for increased direct damage increasing the damage for abilities such as a variant of blastbones/flame skull/scythe etc.
All in all, i want Necros to be unique and actually incite fear, not just be buff timer rotation class. All the while following the great lore of the ES universe. Necromancers are an all time favorite class of mine across many games and i want ESO to do them justice. This is just some of the ideas that i had, and i wanted to share with this forum. I would love to see what other peoples ideas are and what they would like to see what they would come up with.
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tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One of the things I'm noticing is that a lot of people seem to have much different views of the refreshes than the devs seem to.
I've seen so many "Class [X] deserves to get the refresh earlier because [insert reason here]" posts. But I don't think the devs picked the order based on who needed the most work - after all, wouldn't it make sense for the ones that needed the most work to take the longest so they had more time to work on them? It seems like the order was chosen more out of the idea that some would be easier to overhaul than others.
The idea behind the refresh is to try to get each line to have a mostly-consistent theme and have use cases for all three roles to avoid circumstances like we have now where all the power lies in a few lines and it's easy to just drop the ones that don't match your role. They intend that we make choices in order to Subclass, not have worlds where Subclassing is just de facto more powerful.
Also, the first class refresh started before the surveys were collected, based on the timing they said. As such, whoever's going first was already being worked on before they got the results.
I'm pretty sure their thought process went: let's start with a basegame class that's got mostly themed lines that isn't in a bad state already. We'll shuffle some of the skills around to really drive home the "there's not one line per role" concept, and we'll make sure that we give it some cool looking animations and VFX. After that, well move to a slightly more complicated class that we've already started to add damage into one of the support lines, but we'll pretty well have to build support skills in the damage line and damage skills in the healing line from scratch to show that decentralizing roles is something we can do. Once we have those two proofs-of-concept, then we can get to the classes that need a lot of work.
Now Necro needs a lot of work. A lot. It's a muddle of concepts in the first place, and it's been everywhere from OP to literal garbage over its tenure, and pretty well every Necro playstyle has been decimated over the years. I think one of the main reasons it's so late in the game is because it needs so much thought going into it. Not only will they have to shuffle all of the skills around to make three coherent lines that don't centralize around one role, but then they have to make it something that people will enjoy. I'm sure the first part of that alone is the reason the DLC classes are at the end, save Warden which already has done half the work to make the tank line a frost DPS line.
TLDR: The fact that some classes are getting a later refresh probably isn't because they don't care. It's because they're gonna be harder to do and need more time.5 -
nightbringer1993✭✭✭Putting the necromancer refresh last was a huge insult to Necro who got trashed all over those years. And they don’t even want to admit the grave lord sacrifice failure.
It is a paid class that is being discriminated ingame due to its performance. Last year I was trying to go on trial with my necro DD and I got kicked multiple times for playing as necro. I play arca or sorc and I don’t get kickedPC EU3 -
Anumaril✭✭✭✭✭As a necro purist myself I was also dismayed to see it put last on the list, but honestly I think it makes sense. I doubt they're working on the class refreshes one at a time; their team is probably working on all of them somewhat simultaneously. From the description they gave, the necro "refresh" is really more like an overhaul that will change how the class works from the ground-up, so they need time to make that happen, more than with other class refreshes.
If I'm interpreting the description properly, then necro is going to finally be what it should've been from the beginning and what I've been advocating on the forums for years: a temporary minion-based class which actually raises the dead from corpses, instead of being a wizard using generic black magic with an occasional useless minion summoned from a portal.
Hopefully more details will follow, but if the description is accurate then I'm more than willing to give them the time they need to develop it fully. Necros not feeling like actual lore necromancers (like we even see in-game) plus laughably easy overland content are the two things that made me stop playing ESO, and it looks like the devs are on track to tackle both very soon.0 -
jm42✭✭✭✭the order of classes is not the problem, problem is 2 years until completion. if they finished at least this year, order wouldn't have been such a big deal3 -
nightbringer1993✭✭✭When I see that there are no changes made on class skills next patch exept DK, I have the feeling that next year necro will be unplayable because all other subclasses that we are using right now would have been remastered to a specific playstyle that won't match necro skills.
This remaster plan will take too long and if people see their own class unplayable and are unwilling to change class, then we will lose players the same way we lost player due to subclassing. If my necro goes unplayable again, then I might have to take a break from the game because am tired of being forced into other classes.
Devs really need to know the feeling of being kicked out of trial groups for being a necro DD or by going to cyro and be trashed by stupid OP wardens. the removal of stalking blastbone was a big hit on necro's damage, back then 90% of the players were against the change and it still went live and I was forced to change class.PC EU0