Poll: PvP HoT Stacking Options for Update 49

Djiku · January 23

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone!

Last week, we had shared two options We did see many of you asking about not allowing the same type of heals to stack; this is something that was actually in the game years ago, and the sentiment was so poor that we removed it from the game. It’s something we could explore or iterate on in the future, but not for Update 49. We look forward to hearing and seeing what everyone is leaning toward for this update!

I don't know when this was in the game but please bring it back! The game must have been different back then that players didn't like it but it would definitely help todays problem. Take a look at shields next, please.

xylena · January 23

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

NEITHER do what many people have suggested and make it one instance of healing/shielding per skill best option in everyone’s opinion I’ve seen multiple times

This is not the best option. It is in fact terrible. Comp groups will adapt by running every uniquely named effect in the game. Pugs will rage quit as they overwrite each others' heals. The balls are maybe less tanky but the power gap is even wider than before.

They need to do something that punishes the deliberate stacking that comp groups do, but not the incidental stacking that happens with pugs or randoms. Easier said than done. I would think diminishing returns would be the desired effect, but how to get there? Dunno.

gariondavey · January 23

React wrote: »

I don't think this is punishing enough to make a difference. These groups are healing many times in excess of the damage theyr'e taking, so a 33% reduction probably won't phase them. If it is too punishing, they'll stack 7 HOTS and shift their efforts to shields and burst burst heals, maybe with a few ground HOTs mixed in. At least when it was being proposed at 5, that was a number thst would actually be difficult to avoid having.

As for the stacking mechanics, please explore this further. Times have changed, and in this post youre referencing something from 5+ years ago. This isn't the same game or community thet it was 5+ years ago. Healing is exponentially stronger than it was back then, and every other aspect of survivability has been power crept as well.

Making it so same morph HOTS don't stack would instantly solve the hot issue.

Hope to see shields addressed in a future patch!

Yup.
No stacking hots.
1 shield on at a time (maybe 2) max OR capped at 60 percent hp.
No more pve support sets in pvp.
Change snow treaders so they only provide snare/root immunity while sprinting OR apply a 30 percent movespeed penalty with snow treaders on.

Suddenly ball groups aren't immortal and the power creep is reigned in drastically.

MXVIIDREAM · January 23

xylena wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

NEITHER do what many people have suggested and make it one instance of healing/shielding per skill best option in everyone’s opinion I’ve seen multiple times

This is not the best option. It is in fact terrible. Comp groups will adapt by running every uniquely named effect in the game. Pugs will rage quit as they overwrite each others' heals. The balls are maybe less tanky but the power gap is even wider than before.

They need to do something that punishes the deliberate stacking that comp groups do, but not the incidental stacking that happens with pugs or randoms. Easier said than done. I would think diminishing returns would be the desired effect, but how to get there? Dunno.

Well no more than two stacking skills at max anything after that gets rediculous
Similarly you can’t stop shields stacking that’s will hurt/cripple mag sorc even more than it already is however the same change can be made there to shields no more than two of the shame shield should be active on you at a time it’s pretty simple just because you’re in a pug you should still have a burst heal and be watching your health

This will hit ballgroups the hardest while small group/solo play remains largely untouched which is what cyrodil needs along with a lot less calculations no refreshing if you have 2 of the same hot or shield on you then you just have to wait it out and look after yourself for a few seconds

Artisian0001 · January 23

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

MashmalloMan · January 23

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

Artisian0001 · January 23

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

Agreed. If the outside of group healing was addressed the change would be okay. If shields were addressed on top of it I think the change would be good for the greater portion of players and groups.

Treeshka · January 23

I think it is either one instance of any healing over time ability can be active on you or very gradual reduction in healing done based on how many healing over time abilities on you.
Because groups can now optimize, for example if the 8 is going to reduce %X healing done. I can just get away with this with 6 or 7 healing over time.
I believe it is better if it is like this, 3 hots %X reduction, 4 hots %(X+5), 5 hots %(X+10), 6 hots %(X+15) and so on, capping at 8 hots at whichever value is decided.

MeridiaFavorsMe · January 23

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

MincMincMinc · January 23

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

Teeba_Shei · January 23

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

That's a flaw in the polling. These people are just trying to nerf what they aren't playing to benefit themselves. Their goal isn't to balance pvp.

Artisian0001 · January 23

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

Everyone should vote no if it works on people outside of group, it is bad for every single person in that scenario aside from someone who legitimately plays strictly by themself. Everyone else which is 95% of cyro can be trolled maliciously or ignorantly by bad HoTs from random players. I don't want a 33% reduction in my trio/4 man group because of someone hitting me with a 40HPS echoing vigor and radiating.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · January 23

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone!

Last week, we had shared two options to help address healing in PvP - most notably with stacked HoTs - after removing the initial change on the PTS: reducing the modifier to a lower value, or increasing the number of HoTs it would take to trigger the modifier. There was a lot of back-and-forth discussion in the original thread and, understandably, some pretty strong opinions.

As we start to finalize what will be going into Update 49, we’d like to ask what you would ultimately like to see, knowing our current bandwidth limitations. As we mentioned before, this is not the end all, be all; we do still intend to explore other options in the future beyond Update 49.

The two poll options below are currently the only options for Update 49. We did see many of you asking about not allowing the same type of heals to stack; this is something that was actually in the game years ago, and the sentiment was so poor that we removed it from the game. It’s something we could explore or iterate on in the future, but not for Update 49. We look forward to hearing and seeing what everyone is leaning toward for this update!

Until HoTs from players outside your group don’t contribute to the stack count, I have to keep disagreeing with this change because of the griefing implications.
Right now this creates a really obvious abuse case: random players (intentionally or “helpfully”) can throw cheap HoTs on you to push you over the threshold and proc the modifier, effectively reducing your healing at the worst possible time. That’s not counterplay — it’s external manipulation of your survivability.
If you want this to be fair, the stack counter needs to only count HoTs from yourself and/or your group (or at least exclude out-of-group sources). Otherwise it’s going to be weaponized.

Frooke · January 23

50% for 5 or 6 Hots would be a better option, no one should have that amount of heals. When you try to save a friend/ally, you usually use burst heal, and sometimes 1 HoT, a stack of 5 or 6 already characterizes the strategy of a ball group, and this makes the players immortal, 5 or 6 in 50% would be fair

xAlucardx92 · January 23

It is possible to change to "when Battle Spirit is active, you can only have 3 HoT on you". When a new HoT is cast, it overwrites the heal with the shortest runtime ?

The idea of a debuff is poor. A healer tries to heal you and then becomes responsible for your death because the healing is reduced. Sry but that sucks.

Teeba_Shei · January 23

xAlucardx92 wrote: »

It is possible to change to "when Battle Spirit is active, you can only have 3 HoT on you". When a new HoT is cast, it overwrites the heal with the shortest runtime ?

The idea of a debuff is poor. A healer tries to heal you and then becomes responsible for your death because the healing is reduced. Sry but that sucks.

That just reintroduces the same problem. You cast your strong short duration hot and some other people overwrite it with their super weak hots with a longer durations.

forum_propagandist · January 23

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

Shielding Is the Real Problem in Ball Groups — Not HoTs

Logs show it clearly: shielding is doing the heavy lifting

In the screenshot below from the logs of a ball group:

Shielding is circled in blue

Healing is circled in red

What stands out immediately is that a huge portion of the healing is overhealing, because the group is constantly sitting behind layers of shields. The healing isn’t “too strong” — it’s often not even being used effectively because damage isn’t reaching health bars in the first place.

I really think the dev team is trying to address an issue that doesn’t actually exist.

Healing isn’t the problem in ball groups — shielding is.

Right now the proposed change to nerf HoTs by applying a heal reduction when you have more than 8 HoTs active doesn’t meaningfully impact what’s making 12-man ball groups so durable. It mainly punishes healing in situations where healing is already not the reason groups are surviving.

Why shields are stronger than healing in a ball group

Shields outperform healing in organized 12-man groups for a few reasons:

1) Shields prevent damage instead of reacting to it
Healing is reactive — it only matters after damage happens.
Shields are proactive — they stop burst damage from ever creating pressure.

2) Shields make healing look stronger than it is
When shields are constantly absorbing incoming damage, healing turns into mostly overhealing, which means it’s not actually contributing to survival in the way people think it is.

3) Shields scale better the more coordinated the group is
The more stacked and organized a group is, the easier it is to maintain near-permanent shield uptime. That creates a situation where damage has to break multiple layers before anyone is even “in danger.”

4) Burst windows get erased
In smaller fights, coordinated burst and target swaps can break through healing.
In ball groups, shields often erase those burst windows completely, so fights become less about timing and pressure and more about whether you can overwhelm layers of mitigation.

The HoT nerf doesn’t fix the actual problem

The proposed HoT cap/heal reduction mechanic doesn’t really address the thing that makes ball groups unkillable, because:

- ball groups aren’t surviving because they’re receiving too many HoTs

- they’re surviving because they aren’t taking real health damage most of the time

So this change ends up being a weird “healing tax” that mainly impacts:

- smaller scale fights

- open field brawls

- outnumbered groups trying to survive pressure

- builds that rely on sustained healing to function

Meanwhile, the core ball group problem remains intact, because shields are still doing what they’ve always done: preventing damage from mattering.

This is a 12-man issue, not a general healing issue

This isn’t even a problem in smaller scale groups.

In 4–8 player fights, healing actually has counterplay:

- pressure sticks

- burst creates kill windows

- healing has to work to keep people alive

But in 12-mans, with coordinated stacking and constant shield uptime, healing becomes secondary — it’s mostly just topping people off behind shields.

TL;DR

If the goal is to reduce ball group survivability, nerfing HoTs is targeting the wrong system.
Shield stacking is what’s preventing pressure from sticking and creating kill windows.
The logs already show it: healing is often overhealing because shields are covering the group constantly.

This change ends up nerfing active/burst healing along with passive HoT stacking, while your intended goal is trying to target HoTs specifically—not punish direct healing that actually requires timing and decision-making.

THESE ARE LOGS FROM AN ACTUAL BALL GROUP. ALMOST ALL HEALING IS OVERHEALING. SHIELDING IS WHAT IS TOO EFFECTIVE NOT HOTS.

It amuses me to see a well structured and well thought out post with actual evidence be completely ignored. People posting in support of this change (and voting for it) don't seem to be engaging with reality.

Personally I think its strange that a change meant to nerf hot stacking will also be reducing burst healing - I do not believe burst healing is an issue so I think this is an oversight I haven't seen discussed enough.

The proposed change completely ignores shield spamming and shield stacking which I would argue are a bigger reason why ballgroups are to hard to kill - "Burst windows get erased" is perfectly accurate and a much more prevalent problem.

With this change a group can still be negatively affected by a player outside of their group applying hots. If this goes through then coordinated groups will be intentionally staying just below the hot limit and another player on their own faction can effectively nerf them.

fizzybeef · January 23

Imagine making a poll in a medium wich is only 1% of the playerbase using.

Plus this is gonna have a bad effect on pve too

Teeba_Shei · January 23

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

If your group runs around with only 6-7 hots active so they fall below the reduction, all it would take is one person to troll your group.

TheLoreMaster420 · January 23

As someone who’s played this game for a long time, it’s really sad seeing the devs so out of touch with the balance issues. In 12-man “ball groups,” most healing is just overhealing because shields absorb damage before health bars are affected. Shields, not HoTs, are what make these groups unkillable. They prevent damage proactively, scale with coordinated groups, and erase burst windows, turning fights into a battle of mitigation rather than strategy. The proposed HoT nerf doesn’t fix this—it mostly punishes active healing where it isn’t the problem.

TL;DR: To reduce ball group survivability, nerf shields, not HoTs

Deimus · January 23

It's better than nothing, but this is way to weak to solve anything. If this is the direction the team is looking it needs a higher modifier or the modifier needs to become more intense as more HoTs are placed on a player.

Other good solutions are no stacking HoTs and shields or a small cap of maybe 3 HoTs and additional heals are ignored unless it is stronger and then it replaces the current HoT or one of the stacks.

There was another suggestion I saw on the previous thread that might be an option is creating a new Major/Minor buff only active with Battle Spirit that is a HoT and just replaces the healing from HoT granting skills with this buff in PvP environments. If it hits more than one target have it be the Minor version and if it hits one target have it be the Major version.

Lord_Hev · January 23

I voted for do nothing and wait for a better solution, as that is the most sensible and rational option. And this is coming from someone who is outspoken about the obnoxious state of ballgroups rn.

This x amount of hots from outside sources reducing MY OWN SELF HEALING is an atrociously bad take and excessively deceptive in its promise. It is a lie and will lead to ballgroups remaining to be too powerful because of the other stacking variables that make them obnoxiously powerful, all the while removing the individual user's personal agency over their own healing and survivability while in addition, crippling the capabilities of unorganized players that rely on any amount of healing they can get from others.

ceruulean · January 23

They could revert the Vitality changes that applied to shielding.

Major and Minor Vitality: Updated these buffs to increase healing received and damage shield strength by 6/12%, rather than increasing healing received by 8/16%.

Developer Comment:
We’re opening Vitality to influence damage shield effectiveness in hopes to differentiate the buff types more from Mending, as well as making damage shields less binary in their performance. As such, we’ve slightly lowered the potency of the buff to make up for the fact that it can double up in many cases.

Source: u41 patch notes
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654002/pc-mac-patch-notes-v9-3-5-scions-of-ithelia-dlc-update-41

MincMincMinc · January 23

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

That's a flaw in the polling. These people are just trying to nerf what they aren't playing to benefit themselves. Their goal isn't to balance pvp.

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

Everyone should vote no if it works on people outside of group, it is bad for every single person in that scenario aside from someone who legitimately plays strictly by themself. Everyone else which is 95% of cyro can be trolled maliciously or ignorantly by bad HoTs from random players. I don't want a 33% reduction in my trio/4 man group because of someone hitting me with a 40HPS echoing vigor and radiating.

Bingo, sadly nobody has proposed better anti ballgroup changes that zos can actually implement. Actually I am pretty sure you two adamantly shot down any possible solution to the group stacking problem. Now we are left with zos only giving us this one blanket option that is low effort.

Everyone votes and comments in their best interest instead of the best interest of the game. Thats just how the forums works 99% of the time. Just look at people who defend onslaught......Ive been playing 2h since IC and even I admit onslaught will be too strong, yet some people still jumped to defend it.

SneaK · January 23

I don’t want to vote on this cause picking one feels like I’m saying I agree, which I don’t.

Adding a flat debuff like that isn’t the answer, it’s nice it’s a conversation that’s being had though.

Remove the stacks, that’s (part of) the answer. It still lends to unique gameplay. Comped out groups will truly need to optimize who’s running what skills and lines etc rather than all just simply running the best HoTs available to everyone. Solo healers will still be relevant without penalizing random players they hit with their HoTs.

Y’all really need to look at how healing scales though. IMO, ball groups get a really bad rap meanwhile the worst balancing act in ESO history has nothing to do with them, but rather the fact that a 4x20 is common and of the 4 is only one healer/tank. The other three are self sustaining monster DDs with massive self crit heals.

Artisian0001 · January 23

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

That's a flaw in the polling. These people are just trying to nerf what they aren't playing to benefit themselves. Their goal isn't to balance pvp.

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What are you doing to address people trolling others by putting hots on them and putting them above the healing reduction cap?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

At 8 stacks, how would you even achieve this?

Thinking from the mind of a troll, lets say they stack all health, no w/s damage or max resources to keep their HOTS weak. Now they have to follow a group, spamming 5+ hots on multiple allies, just to get them at -33% hot reduction. Even with super weak hots, you just gave your enemy 5 hots they wouldn't otherwise have, in addition to still being able to burst heal and shield themselves.

I fail to see how any of that succeeds in trolling other players. I'd happily take the troll for free hots. What a waste of time and engery they could spend on better trolling.

This is just silly, I also think you don't understand the change based on your wording. HoTs aren't the only thing reduced, they are just what trigger the reduction, it applies to all healing. Someone giving 200 HPS and then ruining every other HoT, ground HoT, and direct heal would be a huge reduction in healing, even for a duo. Like you said, they would make themself as tanky as possible and then run around with a level 3 ruby ash resto staff in grey quality and the tooltip for their echoing would be extremely low, along with every other HoT they apply. Their trolling would be extremely effective and healing from outside of group should be disabled because of this, or at the very least HoT application so they can't add to the limit. Otherwise, I don't really mind the change, but shields still need to be reduced. Ballgroups live for shields and will avoid the issue just by stacking even more of them, as well as more ground HoTs.

Apologies, you're right I did think this new proposal was adjusted to only include healing received from HOTS, but upon second glance it looks like they took the initial idea and just made it less potent. Unfortunate.

I don't mean this post an insult to you at all, but this is a prime example of why this sort of poll doesn't work. This person didn't even really understand the question. People are just voting for nerfs, they don't care about how its done or if its balanced.

Well they took an idea that may hurt solo/smallman and made it only hurt ball and largeman pvp groups. Anyone who plays solo/smallman is going to vote yes

Everyone should vote no if it works on people outside of group, it is bad for every single person in that scenario aside from someone who legitimately plays strictly by themself. Everyone else which is 95% of cyro can be trolled maliciously or ignorantly by bad HoTs from random players. I don't want a 33% reduction in my trio/4 man group because of someone hitting me with a 40HPS echoing vigor and radiating.

Bingo, sadly nobody has proposed better anti ballgroup changes that zos can actually implement. Actually I am pretty sure you two adamantly shot down any possible solution to the group stacking problem. Now we are left with zos only giving us this one blanket option that is low effort.

Everyone votes and comments in their best interest instead of the best interest of the game. Thats just how the forums works 99% of the time. Just look at people who defend onslaught......Ive been playing 2h since IC and even I admit onslaught will be too strong, yet some people still jumped to defend it.

If you are going to lie about people's positions you should just get off the forums. I have over 20 comments pushing for a change, just a better one. But yeah, go off king.

fizzybeef · January 23

WHY NOT MAKE A INGAME SURVEY???

acastanza_ESO · January 23

Absolutely no option that cuts burst heals dependent on HOTs is acceptable.

Poss · January 23

Just limit the max amount of hots and shields you can have on yourself. Like you’ve done in vengeance

Currently you can run around with a million vigors, regens and a stupid amount of all manner of shields and their morphs. Cut them all down

acastanza_ESO · January 23

@ZOS_GinaBruno the way that this poll is worded without clearly specifying that this modifier affects ALL HEALS and NOT just the stacked HOTs renders it completely invalid. Yes this was clarified in my previous thread but asking a bunch of people on the forums to vote on this (randoms on the forums which is not a representative cross section of the PVP community) without clearly specifying ALL the relevant information is gross statistical malpractice.