That corrosive change is perfect! That should bring the skill to a much more reasonable power level in PVP.
Edit: On further thought, while the dot being removed from PVP is absolutely the right call, the damage mitigation cap probably didn't need to be raised from 8% to 12%.

Searing strike change looks great too.

Molten should probably keep the WD/SD in addition to the new monster modifier.

Thanks for the continued communication and transparency.

All of these changes look amazing. Finally a PTS where feedback is actually being listened to and there are notable changes. Also, I think it's great that the crit damage buff got placed in the more supportive line, so players aren't being punished for taking skills which help out the group. Please more changes like this!

I would love to see Standard of Might back as a DPS ult if possible. Giving increased uptime on Empowered whip is a way of doing it.

React wrote: »

That corrosive change is perfect! That should bring the skill to a much more reasonable power level in PVP.

Searing strike change looks great too.

Thanks for the continued communication and transparency.

100% on board with this and I’m sure we won’t be the only ones either

These changes look really good. Like REALLY good. Agree with React about maybe keeping a little bit of that Weapon/Spell damage on Molten.

Big things for me still are no Eruption morph and no Standard of Might DPS option (just a support Ult now)

Decimus wrote: »

Oof... while there's some good changes, I'm not sure who asked for removal of weapon/spell damage from Whip or for people to take even more damage in Corrosive.

The problem with Corrosive Armor hasn't been the defensive value it provides, the problem has been the insta kill potential it provides on PTS.

On Live server where Corrosive limits your damage taken to 3% and provides full penetration for Direct Damage it is rarely seen as a problem and is just seen by good players as a good open world ultimate for offensive windows when you're outnumbered, that's about it. It is not meta, it is not popular... it is an option.

With 12% damage taken it isn't an option, because being 30k health (the bare minimum in PvP) for example means taking 3600 damage per hit... this is pretty much full damage from every DoT, every spammable. This makes it impossible to engage in an outnumbered fight without crossheals/shields, which encourages ball grouping and other negative aspects of PvP.

I'd just reroll Corrosive back to how it is on Live for PvP (although adding penetration on DoTs in PvE won't make a difference in high end content, you're reaching penetration cap from group buffs anyway).


Other changes are good, although I'm not sure if the game needs more access to Critical Damage... I'd much rather see Critical Resistance added to various passives given the state of PvP.

Yeah the whip one confused me a lot adding it would have been brilliant replacing its , just nerfed it
I don’t know about corrosive admittedly I thought taking more damage was a good shout but open to be told the better options
300/600 at level 1-2 crit resist would be considerably better for PvP but offer nothing y to pve I guess this helps both

5/10% crit damage and healing would have been nicer however for everyone dps tanks healers in both PvP/pve

Decimus wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Oof... while there's some good changes, I'm not sure who asked for removal of weapon/spell damage from Whip or for people to take even more damage in Corrosive.

The problem with Corrosive Armor hasn't been the defensive value it provides, the problem has been the insta kill potential it provides on PTS.

On Live server where Corrosive limits your damage taken to 3% and provides full penetration for Direct Damage it is rarely seen as a problem and is just seen by good players as a good open world ultimate for offensive windows when you're outnumbered, that's about it. It is not meta, it is not popular... it is an option.

With 12% damage taken it isn't an option, because being 30k health (the bare minimum in PvP) for example means taking 3600 damage per hit... this is pretty much full damage from every DoT, every spammable. This makes it impossible to engage in an outnumbered fight without crossheals/shields, which encourages ball grouping and other negative aspects of PvP.

I'd just reroll Corrosive back to how it is on Live for PvP (although adding penetration on DoTs in PvE won't make a difference in high end content, you're reaching penetration cap from group buffs anyway).


Other changes are good, although I'm not sure if the game needs more access to Critical Damage... I'd much rather see Critical Resistance added to various passives given the state of PvP.

Yeah the whip one confused me a lot adding it would have been brilliant replacing its , just nerfed it
I don’t know about corrosive admittedly I thought taking more damage was a good shout but open to be told the better options

Well, Corrosive on PTS 1v1s (only thing you can test) isn't broken because of the tankiness it provides (you can just play 40k health rallying permablock & survive without it & go for the stronger Onslaught burst), but it does make DoT pressure unbearable if you're not built right. Instead of fixing this issue, they've decided to ignore it and just make it worse in open world fights, BGs etc... unless you have a personal heal bot keeping you alive. Not a fan of this design, at all.

How it is on Live is fine and no one is really complaining about it, why make changes that'll just make people upset one way or the other. I would've been fine with just a flat buff to it given that it's a DK rework after all, but a flat 400% nerf to survivability is crazy.

In the original post:

we know there’s a desire to see the power level for Dragonknight increased.

...and yet it's mostly just nerfs for PvP (apart from the DoT skills getting buffed, which is nice) - I've kinda gone from enthusiastic about next patch to indifferent after reading these notes, it's just going to be another subclassing patch.

They said things and effects can be adjusted so let’s hope they save molten whip and adjust corrosive
I was excited I still am but the molten whip nerf and focus on crit damage as posed to crit dmg +healing has taken the wind out my sails there heck they could add 300/600 crit resist aswell that wouldn’t effect pve at all

All classes should get an addition to crit resist in my opinion it can be added anywhere and has no effect to pve given everyone’s running at crit damage cap almost currently in any pvp instance
Not in ardent flame though that’s skill probably best in earthern heart to give people incentive to stay pure class not sure where it would fit on other classes till they’re reworked but every class needs access to it at this point

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

wow zos is really cooking! i can't wait for warden!!!!

Me too man, me too.

Finger’s crossed we’re finally severed from Vvardenfell. I love the idea of the class but if it wasn’t so ugly... 😅

I really like these changes as they directly address much of the concern from week one. I'm especially excited to see more skills that work differently in PVE vs PVP situations, allowing for more skill to be effective in PVE without needed to be nerfed for PVP reasons.

MSattrtand wrote: »

If it's former, I don't mind. But all skill lines should have something like that, some unique bonus, that makes this skill line stronger to use on that base class. Like every skill line for every class. Otherwise - what's the point?

If it's later, can't we just have something like x% bonus for every DK skill line instead?

I like this thought of having a skill that is stronger for the base class as it make subclassing more of a theory craft tool rather than just what it the meta damage. Also x% is a good idea for making pure classes stronger.

Matter of fact.
I think I’m done here.

I’ll be back when we stop seeing class requirements on skills.

Dragon Leap: This Ultimate and its morphs now determine what type of CC will play based on the type of enemy they hit. Players are knocked back 4 meters and stunned for 2 seconds, while monsters are knocked into the air and stunned for 3 seconds. This change was done based on the discussions we saw come up - where much of the powerful feeling and benefits of knocking enemies away is lost in the context of PvE.

YES!!! thankyou ZOS for looking into this as the fix for leaps knockback/knock up CC issues for PvE DDs.

It definitely was a massive pain point for PvE DDs unstacking their tanks stacked pulls, but in PvP (and visually) the knockback just felt so much better, so I am glad to see that we are getting the best of both worlds here.

---

In regards to flame lash specifically, this change feels the right direction, but I would like to see consideration to potentially adjusting the values slightly and allowing it to work in PvP as well. Something along the lines of grants +5% increased damage done with DK abilities after casting, this bonus doubles (or triples) against monsters.

Gives Flame Lash just a little bit more oomph in PvP to allow it as a slightly less damaging but better survivability option to wear down enemies compared to molten whips massive burst potential (that is comparable to Merciless Resolve as it currently sits on PTS) while still keeping the intended goal of closing the much bigger gap it has in PvE.

I am personally not a fan of having bonuses be tied to base class itself. It feels very anti theory crafting and I do hope they are a temporary measure in the long term. I really like subclassing as a concept and making a skill line fundamentally worse when I grab it on a different class is not fun. The way you have been doing it based on amount of skills feels significantly better as it encourages pure classing while leaving subclasses the ability to engage with it. I really like the aspect of it feeling like a trade off. I do recognize that until more classes are done the new paradigm of mixed role skill lines (which is the correct direction IMO) leaves the classes reworked earlier in an odd state that could use some temp buffs. My worry is pure class players wont want to give them up when it is time to remove them.

I realize that the state of subclassing vs pureclass is unbalanced currently and we are going to have several patches before things feel good overall, but even as a temporary measure I really don't like the look of "buff if x class" to skill lines. I thought the rework was supposed to give power to pureclass without restricting the freedom of subclassing. As many have said before me, some of us never felt represented in the pureclass options for classes and couldn't really play what we felt was the class that fit our character until subclassing. To have that given to us then taken away for a year to a year and a half potentially just feels unfair. Please find another way to balance dragon knight power in the interim. My biggest fear with the class reworks and pushing power fantasy assigned to default classes was something like this.

Also, as others pointed out before me, these changes are very dps centric overall. What about dk tank and healer power?

I do like the dragon leap changes that make the skill interact in a desirable way in both pvp and pve, would like to see more skills that have desirable effects in both pvp and pve balanced in a similar manner going forward if possible.

Edit to add:
I think I'd rather see a pureclass buff as a temporary Active Effect aura than tied to specific skills if we're doing it like this. That feels more reassuring as temporary and not something that could potentially be forgotten down the line as many other unfinished systems and combat changes in game have been. There are people who love subclassing, there are people who love pureclassing, and there are people who love both and I'd love to see eso embrace freedom and options while giving all three groups what they want.

Radiate77 wrote: »

I also have to say, if we’re going to backpedal every week on the value of individual skill lines, and make them inseparable from their core class, just roll back Subclassing.

I have been the biggest advocate for the system, and have made incredibly effective thematic builds for several friends and myself and the idea that you can’t use Whip as a spammable if you Subclass into Ardent Flame goes completely against the very philosophy that made Subclassing a great idea to begin with.

Seeing this makes me feel like an idiot.

I feel stupid for wasting my time and energy on this system now that your team has decided to trample it.

So once again, just roll back Subclassing if you’re not going to commit. I’ll move on from the game happily.

I'm also someone who really enjoys the concept of subclassing and have been having fun making thematic combinations. But, it's undeniable that having class-unique buffs to skills will benefit combat by a lot, try to see the greater scheme of things.

In time, I hope, every class will have unique buffs like that. Even if you subclass, you can choose to keep those class-only effects from your class, this will create a scenario where your main class matters even if you're using the same combo as someone else that has a different main class, in the long term this will only provide more variability.

Whether you like subclassing or not, it will be great to have pure classes on the table again, just have patience.