Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of January 26:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
We will be performing maintenance for patch 11.3.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC).
DK's Inhale's sustain change needs to be reverted
-
hoangdz✭✭✭Notice how other than Xylena, I am the only other person to present any sort of in-game evidence for my claims. Almost everyone here who is defending Soul of Flame aren't willing to post anything to back up their claims. "Soul of Flame doesn't do enough damage", sure thing bro, care to post your build and CMX values so we can see if the skill is lackluster or you just didn't build correctly? "Soul of Flame still doesn't let me sustain as well", sure bro, care to post a video of your gameplay so we can see if the skill doesn't sustain well or you actually didn't play well?
My experience on the PTS has been otherwise, and I'm happy to use Inhale and duel everybody here.Edited by hoangdz on January 22, 2026 9:49AM1 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭My experience on the PTS has been otherwise, and I'm happy to use Inhale and duel everybody here.
In PvE, the most objective data is based on eso-log and CMX.
However, this is not the case in PvP because there are too many variables and exceptions, making quantification difficult.
But, after bounties and numerous duel invitations, no one can offer any other more reliable conclusions, then I think everyone else will see the answer, or at least seriously consider the possibilities proposed by hoangdz.
"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MXVIIDREAM wrote: »MXVIIDREAM wrote: »All you’ve proved in these clips is that essence Theif carried your stam sustain more than inhale with a pool much bigger than most players not many people with 30k stam and being at the lowest point and using inhale correctly you rarely get above 10k with a resorce pool close to 10k more than most people
two although not cc’ing you (you lost one duel) on cooldown still had you struggling for stam lucky you run essence Thief and it seems you’ve specced into ardent flame so you’re also seeing an improvement to your sustain from cumbustion aswell
first guy you dueled was he afk or just never dueled before (oh wait that’s your friend in this thread isnt it ?)
although you’ve lost your free clense, heal and crit damage from animal companions
Onslaught carried you more than anything
You also showcased just how weak the as the new flames of oblivion and inhale (specifically inhale you said it hit for only 6.7k with the onslaught crit and crazy full pen bonus 6.7k is nothing for the damage morph of the skill a 10k crit with full pen would have been worth talking about ) combined almost done less damage then hurricane alone with 100% uptime so they could probably do with a buff
Thanks for sharing your findings
My guy completely glossed over the screenshot showing Fissure and Soul of Flame having close tooltips. It's like talking to a brick wall.
I could literally wear 3 tank sets with zero sustain sets and you would still find some irrelevant reason to defend Inhale lol. You have demonstrated so much biasness in your comments, not only glossing over what I've presented, but also attacking premises I never made, that it's actually pointless to have any meaningful discussion with you.
This is exactly what happened when Hardened Ward was broken. People like you argued like this, ignoring the premise that is being discussed and arguing things that aren't. The funny thing is I so far I have been right in the concerns I brought up
Whether or not Inhale gets adjusted, I will abuse it when it goes live. I've done my job here
No I didn’t if you actually read my comment you’d understand that I myself also compared the example you gave
How’s it bias when you and two others on this thread have an issue with it (ones your friend and the other is now 50/50)
The other 60 odd people that have commented against you shows a significant ratio that can’t be ignored
I actually don’t think I’ve seen someone get ratio’d this hard ever 😂
Your comment brings up irrelevant points. It doesn't matter if I used Onslaught or Corrosive or whatever, and neither was the Win/Loss. The actual issue I wanted to show with those 3 duel videos was that I could comfortably sustain with 900 mag and 1100 stam recovery and ZERO tri pots. You bringing up Essence Thief was a valid point, but I never needed the stam sustain from it to begin with, and even if I swap to another set, you would have still found something irrelevant to nitpick instead of focusing on the actual point being discussed. Not only that, but Soul of Flame being an offensive ability already makes it better than pure sustain abilities. I was practically casting it off cooldown as part of my offensive rotation, whilst also boosting my sustain. This ability is basically identical to Essence Thief in function, and that makes it one of the best skills in the game, period.
Getting ratio-ed on the forums doesn't matter when more than half of them aren't good enough at PvP to present any meaningful arguments. I've gotten ratio-ed harder than this thread when I created the Hardened Ward nerf thread, and I ended up being right several months later when people found out it was in fact broken. News flash, most people on the forums argue off emotions, not numbers and in-game evidence. People like @Vaqual , @Turtle_Bot , and @xylena_lazarow , even if we don't come to an agreement, are still arguing in better faith than the majority of forum users.
You just defeated you own argument here 900 mag recovery and 1100 stam recovery. You claimed inhale was so good you could build zero recovery and sustain indefinitely with inhale alone. So I hate to say it you have not been arguing in good faith. As well as using a set that also helps with sustain.1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Might I add the comparison to deep fissure is negligible at best you site the first hit to the hit of soul of flame failing to take into account the secondary hit of deep fissure plus the fact it applies both major and minor breach if anything deep fissure is overturned compared to soul of flame1
-
hoangdz✭✭✭Might I add the comparison to deep fissure is negligible at best you site the first hit to the hit of soul of flame failing to take into account the secondary hit of deep fissure plus the fact it applies both major and minor breach if anything deep fissure is overturned compared to soul of flame
Inhale has a broken sustain mechanic. This is far more valuable than some major minor breach buff which will be redundant with full pen onslaught and corrosive.0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Might I add the comparison to deep fissure is negligible at best you site the first hit to the hit of soul of flame failing to take into account the secondary hit of deep fissure plus the fact it applies both major and minor breach if anything deep fissure is overturned compared to soul of flame
Inhale has a broken sustain mechanic. This is far more valuable than some major minor breach buff which will be redundant with full pen onslaught and corrosive.
Not for people who don’t run either of those skills fyi and in comparison I like how you didn’t even acknowledge the secondary hit from deep fissure. Now I’ll play the game soul of flame hits one time for almost 9 k while also restoring resources over 4 seconds based on missing resources (keyword missing resources) while deep fissure has an initial hit of around 9.5k a secondary hit for around 13k while also applying both major and minor breach. I also like how you failed to acknowledge me calling out your recoveries which should also be factored in the equation. I also like how one moment it doesn’t matter if you use onslaught or corrosive one moment and when I have a valid counter argument suddenly those skills are relevant. Again you are not arguing in good faith.1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭Might I add the comparison to deep fissure is negligible at best you site the first hit to the hit of soul of flame failing to take into account the secondary hit of deep fissure plus the fact it applies both major and minor breach if anything deep fissure is overturned compared to soul of flame
Inhale has a broken sustain mechanic. This is far more valuable than some major minor breach buff which will be redundant with full pen onslaught and corrosive.
Not for people who don’t run either of those skills fyi and in comparison I like how you didn’t even acknowledge the secondary hit from deep fissure. Now I’ll play the game soul of flame hits one time for almost 9 k while also restoring resources over 4 seconds based on missing resources (keyword missing resources) while deep fissure has an initial hit of around 9.5k a secondary hit for around 13k while also applying both major and minor breach. I also like how you failed to acknowledge me calling out your recoveries which should also be factored in the equation. I also like how one moment it doesn’t matter if you use onslaught or corrosive one moment and when I have a valid counter argument suddenly those skills are relevant. Again you are not arguing in good faith.
I will be posting a video with zero regen from sets and other passives, just to prove this skill is broken. Then you can kindly stop arguing0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭@BattleAxe
Here is your video evidence.
https://youtu.be/kxSpBo0ncIY
I have not heavy attacked ONCE in that entire 4 minute duel. I was running a 4-piece Essence Thief, so no sustain from that set. I was also using double armor pots, so no sustain from tri pots either. I was also using Sugar Skulls, so no sustain from food either. I had purposely removed 2 sustain passives from Dark Magic, removed Combustion, and removed Capacitor. I also did not run a sustain CP other than the Survival Instinct which EVERYBODY runs. If you actually nitpick on this then it will only make your stance weaker, not mine.
So yes, even without the sustain passives from other class lines, from any potion, food, etc. I still went toe to toe with another pure DK who had all the passives.
Do I need to strip off my armor too to prove my point?
0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.2
-
hoangdz✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.Edited by Decimus on January 22, 2026 12:22PM4 -
hoangdz✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.
It doesn't matter. My Sorc cannot sustain that well despite having all passives, using Essence Thief, AND using Blood for Blood.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.
It doesn't matter. My Sorc cannot sustain that well despite having all passives, using Essence Thief, AND using Blood for Blood.
That sounds like a you problem, sustain is not an issue for people who have the class and its playstyle figured out.Edited by Decimus on January 22, 2026 12:45PM3 -
hoangdz✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.
Hop on a Sorc or a NB, remove all sustain passives and play with 500 recoveries, then compare it to Inhale. I'll wait for your video. You can even use BfB if you want.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.
It doesn't matter. My Sorc cannot sustain that well despite having all passives, using Essence Thief, AND using Blood for Blood.
That sounds like a you problem, sustain is not an issue for people who have the class and it's playstyle figured out.
Inhale on a build without sustain passives from class lines, no essence thief, no sustain food, no sustain potions, is doing better than an optimized Sorc build. Focus on the argument being laid out instead of doing ad hominem attacks.Edited by hoangdz on January 22, 2026 12:28PM0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.
You're right, it's not the same... Because playing a healer is a lot more resource intensive than playing a normal damage build (block or not), thank you for pointing this out. You could do the same even easier on a block oriented DD build.
You may have picked up on how Hardened Ward was really strong before subclassing, well done. Unfortunately it stopped being strong the second subclassing was introduced (same patch where it was nerfed)... and now it's another dead ability in a game full of unused, dead abilities. And you've moved on to try and create more of them while thinking that's "good feedback".
The funniest thing is that even if old Hardened Ward existed on Live, it wouldn't be meta or considered "overpowered", because people have access to stronger skill lines with their own powerful defensive abilities... Since luckily "feedback" hasn't gotten all of those nerfed yet.4 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.
Hop on a Sorc or a NB, remove all sustain passives and play with 500 recoveries, then compare it to Inhale. I'll wait for your video. You can even use BfB if you want.
Go on live servers and use inhale on your set up then come talk you can even use all the sustain passives you want including BfB1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nothing. The meta is already a trash fire of infinite sustain and other degeneracy. The game is at its lowest point ever. What the hell are you so invested in preserving? A trash fire?This is what will happen if Inhale is allowed on live
Yeah don't put out the trash fire, it might make toxic smoke when you put it out. Just let it burn. Ignore all the toxic smoke already blackening out the sky. Animal assassins forever! /sPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP4 -
hoangdz✭✭✭
Nothing. The meta is already a trash fire of infinite sustain and other degeneracy. The game is at its lowest point ever. What the hell are you so invested in preserving? A trash fire?This is what will happen if Inhale is allowed on live
Yeah don't put out the trash fire, it might make toxic smoke when you put it out. Just let it burn. Ignore all the toxic smoke already blackening out the sky. Animal assassins forever! /s
I’m providing feedback. While it may not be the kind of feedback you like to hear, it is still feedback. I have presented my case. Whether ZOS acts on it is up to them.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭Too funny considering your primary spamable is a skill that costs health so of course it looks like your sustain is good when your primary resource for damage becomes your health. Your highest damage came from blood for blood and light attacks (light attacks cost no resources). A health potion further helps your sustain considering your primary source of damage. Might I also point out your mag and stam pools for a majority of that fight remained pretty low. So no you have not proven anything other than soul of flames needs a buff to its damage if nothing else considering being a vampire means you should take more flame damage and a pure dk deals only flame damage.
My guy, I have already severely nerfed my sustain more than meta subclass builds. A reasonable person can look and get the point. You are sounding very ridiculous right now, just stop talking please.
Dude when your primary source of damage doesn’t use either resource pool which soul of flame restores your being disingenuous.
Hop on a Sorc or a NB, remove all sustain passives and play with 500 recoveries, then compare it to Inhale. I'll wait for your video. You can even use BfB if you want.
Go on live servers and use inhale on your set up then come talk you can even use all the sustain passives you want including BfB
Inhale on live pales in comparison to PTS Inhale in terms of sustain.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.
You're right, it's not the same... Because playing a healer is a lot more resource intensive than playing a normal damage build (block or not), thank you for pointing this out. You could do the same even easier on a block oriented DD build.
You may have picked up on how Hardened Ward was really strong before subclassing, well done. Unfortunately it stopped being strong the second subclassing was introduced (same patch where it was nerfed)... and now it's another dead ability in a game full of unused, dead abilities. And you've moved on to try and create more of them while thinking that's "good feedback".
The funniest thing is that even if old Hardened Ward existed on Live, it wouldn't be meta or considered "overpowered", because people have access to stronger skill lines with their own powerful defensive abilities... Since luckily "feedback" hasn't gotten all of those nerfed yet.
Me picking up on how Hardened Ward overperformed day one of PTS was the key. It was immediately feedback that the playerbase deemed “overreacting”, yet became true when the meta established. It didnt take me months to figure that out. It took 1 day of PTS testing. You dismissing or playing it off doesn’t change the fact that before subclass came out, my prediction was correct. Don’t try to veer off.
The same thing is happening in this thread. I am simply pointing out how Inhale can overperform. Whether the meta catches up or not, time will answer.
I have noticed that your style of arguing is very much bad faith. I don’t know if you do it intentionally or you just don’t realize it, but your responses to my claims have been mostly ad hominem or strawman arguments.0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your feedback isn't "new Inhale overperforms at low resources on high pool builds" but more like "omg Inhale is going to ruin the game." LOL there's nothing to ruin. Why are you crusading against Inhale and not the crap proven to make people quit like Rushing Agony or Null Arca?I’m providing feedback.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭
Your feedback isn't "new Inhale overperforms at low resources on high pool builds" but more like "omg Inhale is going to ruin the game." LOL there's nothing to ruin. Why are you crusading against Inhale and not the crap proven to make people quit like Rushing Agony or Null Arca?I’m providing feedback.
When did I say Inhale ruins the game? I pointed out how Inhale, as a delayed burst ability, is outperforming Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks as a sustain ability, while having more efficient GCD usage. I also pointed out how Inhale can allow players to build more stats than what other sustain abilities can provide. All of my claims have been backed up with numbers/video clips.
This is valid feedback. You can spin it all you want but from my PoV, you are using the “current meta is trash” as basis for your argument that Inhale is fine. That is not objective whatsoever.
Edited by hoangdz on January 22, 2026 1:10PM2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.
You're right, it's not the same... Because playing a healer is a lot more resource intensive than playing a normal damage build (block or not), thank you for pointing this out. You could do the same even easier on a block oriented DD build.
You may have picked up on how Hardened Ward was really strong before subclassing, well done. Unfortunately it stopped being strong the second subclassing was introduced (same patch where it was nerfed)... and now it's another dead ability in a game full of unused, dead abilities. And you've moved on to try and create more of them while thinking that's "good feedback".
The funniest thing is that even if old Hardened Ward existed on Live, it wouldn't be meta or considered "overpowered", because people have access to stronger skill lines with their own powerful defensive abilities... Since luckily "feedback" hasn't gotten all of those nerfed yet.
Me picking up on how Hardened Ward overperformed day one of PTS was the key. It was immediately feedback that the playerbase deemed “overreacting”, yet became true when the meta established. It didnt take me months to figure that out. It took 1 day of PTS testing. You dismissing or playing it off doesn’t change the fact that before subclass came out, my prediction was correct. Don’t try to veer off.
The same thing is happening in this thread. I am simply pointing out how Inhale can overperform. Whether the meta catches up or not, time will answer.
I have noticed that your style of arguing is very much bad faith. I don’t know if you do it intentionally or you just don’t realize it, but your responses to my claims have been mostly ad hominem or strawman arguments.
I'm arguing in bad faith? You're laser focused on one good ability in the game while there are so many other "overpowered" abilities in the game.
Where's the same outrage about Merciless Resolve? New Molten Whip (faster travel time, stacking, more tt damage, not reflectable)? Superheated Ward ("old" Hardened Ward basically)? Shalks? Ele sus? Rune? Siphoning Attacks? Vigor?
There's a lot of abilities that do what they do really well in the game, and the answer isn't to nerf all of them to the point of uselessness... Especially ones that are not even in the game yet, unless something is obviously bugged and breaking the game (i.e. Engulfing Dragonfire stacking, which was fixed afaik).
Inhale does not break the game any more so than existing abilities, which I've already proven with what I linked.
The answer to all these "overpowered abilities" is buffing other underperforming abilities in the game and giving more tools for people to compete without subclassing. Which I believe is the whole idea behind the reworks...Edited by Decimus on January 22, 2026 1:14PM3 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.
You're right, it's not the same... Because playing a healer is a lot more resource intensive than playing a normal damage build (block or not), thank you for pointing this out. You could do the same even easier on a block oriented DD build.
You may have picked up on how Hardened Ward was really strong before subclassing, well done. Unfortunately it stopped being strong the second subclassing was introduced (same patch where it was nerfed)... and now it's another dead ability in a game full of unused, dead abilities. And you've moved on to try and create more of them while thinking that's "good feedback".
The funniest thing is that even if old Hardened Ward existed on Live, it wouldn't be meta or considered "overpowered", because people have access to stronger skill lines with their own powerful defensive abilities... Since luckily "feedback" hasn't gotten all of those nerfed yet.
Me picking up on how Hardened Ward overperformed day one of PTS was the key. It was immediately feedback that the playerbase deemed “overreacting”, yet became true when the meta established. It didnt take me months to figure that out. It took 1 day of PTS testing. You dismissing or playing it off doesn’t change the fact that before subclass came out, my prediction was correct. Don’t try to veer off.
The same thing is happening in this thread. I am simply pointing out how Inhale can overperform. Whether the meta catches up or not, time will answer.
I have noticed that your style of arguing is very much bad faith. I don’t know if you do it intentionally or you just don’t realize it, but your responses to my claims have been mostly ad hominem or strawman arguments.
I'm arguing in bad faith? You're laser focused on one good ability in the game while there are so many other "overpowered" abilities in the game.
Where's the same outrage about Merciless Resolve? New Molten Whip (faster travel time, stacking, more tt damage, not reflectable)? Superheated Ward ("old" Hardened Ward basically)? Shalks? Ele sus? Rune? Siphoning Attacks? Vigor?
There's a lot of abilities that do what they do really well in the game, and the answer isn't to nerf all of them to the point of uselessness... Especially ones that are not even in the game yet, unless something is obviously bugged and breaking the game (i.e. Engulfing Dragonfire stacking, which was fixed afaik).
Inhale does not break the game any more so than existing abilities, which I've already proven with what I linked.
The answer to all these "overpowered abilities" is buffing other underperforming abilities in the game and giving more tools for people to compete without subclassing. Which I believe is the whole idea behind the reworks...
I’ve already pointed out using a skill that costs health as primary damage skill completely discredits any claim of a skill restoring stam and mag being overpowered. Considering if using another skill in place of BfB such as molten whip which costs both would likely better show how much one gets from inhale.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.
You're right, it's not the same... Because playing a healer is a lot more resource intensive than playing a normal damage build (block or not), thank you for pointing this out. You could do the same even easier on a block oriented DD build.
You may have picked up on how Hardened Ward was really strong before subclassing, well done. Unfortunately it stopped being strong the second subclassing was introduced (same patch where it was nerfed)... and now it's another dead ability in a game full of unused, dead abilities. And you've moved on to try and create more of them while thinking that's "good feedback".
The funniest thing is that even if old Hardened Ward existed on Live, it wouldn't be meta or considered "overpowered", because people have access to stronger skill lines with their own powerful defensive abilities... Since luckily "feedback" hasn't gotten all of those nerfed yet.
Me picking up on how Hardened Ward overperformed day one of PTS was the key. It was immediately feedback that the playerbase deemed “overreacting”, yet became true when the meta established. It didnt take me months to figure that out. It took 1 day of PTS testing. You dismissing or playing it off doesn’t change the fact that before subclass came out, my prediction was correct. Don’t try to veer off.
The same thing is happening in this thread. I am simply pointing out how Inhale can overperform. Whether the meta catches up or not, time will answer.
I have noticed that your style of arguing is very much bad faith. I don’t know if you do it intentionally or you just don’t realize it, but your responses to my claims have been mostly ad hominem or strawman arguments.
I'm arguing in bad faith? You're laser focused on one good ability in the game while there are so many other "overpowered" abilities in the game.
Where's the same outrage about Merciless Resolve? New Molten Whip (faster travel time, stacking, more tt damage, not reflectable)? Superheated Ward ("old" Hardened Ward basically)? Shalks? Ele sus? Rune? Siphoning Attacks? Vigor?
There's a lot of abilities that do what they do really well in the game, and the answer isn't to nerf all of them to the point of uselessness... Especially ones that are not even in the game yet, unless something is obviously bugged and breaking the game (i.e. Engulfing Dragonfire stacking, which was fixed afaik).
Inhale does not break the game any more so than existing abilities, which I've already proven with what I linked.
The answer to all these "overpowered abilities" is buffing other underperforming abilities in the game and giving more tools for people to compete without subclassing. Which I believe is the whole idea behind the reworks...
You just did it again, using red herring to argue.
Definition: “A red herring is a misleading statement, question, or argument meant to redirect a conversation away from its original topic.”
The discussion is Inhale vs Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks. Bringing Merciless Resolve or non related abilities into the argument IS misleading and redirecting this conversation away from its original topic. Can you please focus on the topic at hand?
If you want to objectively look at this, you have to ask yourself these questions:
Can Inhale replace other recovery sources?
Can Inhale improve GCD efficiency?
Does Inhale require sacrificing other stats?
Does Inhale perform better than other sustain abilities?
So far my testings have found that Inhale checks all of these questions. This is why I created this thread.
2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So you looked at all the things wrong with the game, and concluded that New Inhale is the worst offender? Seriously, what do you think is going to be "worse" than it is now? Players already run around with infinite resources one shotting people with proc set combos.This is valid feedback.
I think your argument is "valid" when you specifically say that it returns too much at low resources on high pool builds, but the crusade seems biased. You know damn well sustain is already nigh infinite so why not crusade to nerf undercosted blocking, or Netch, or Templar Rune, etc.
Like if Netch is so strong that you can afford to run redundant major buffs and still 1vX with unoptimized bars, that sounds "overpowered" to me. I don't see Inhale affecting your open world experience, you'll still 1vX bads, you'll still stalemate the other 37k hp tryhards.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP3 -
hoangdz✭✭✭We're still going? Literally linked an example earlier of how you can do this on Live with Siphoning Attacks while not just tanking one person, but half a BG team... in noCP, without even dropping below 80% Stamina... With 800/900 regens.
What is the point you're trying to make here @hoangdz ? Do I need to dig through VODs and link you a Dark Deal example as well? I have one where I streak from one side of Cyrodiil to the other with a ball group chasing me if you're curious.
Also imagine thinking complaining about Hardened Ward is some kind of a flex.
How is Hardened Ward right now? Oh, right... No one runs it anymore because it's a garbage ability now and the skill line overall is meh.
This is exactly why I always say on my streams ZOS should be careful about what kind of "feedback" they listen to.
You were on a block healer. I am on a DPS build. Your comparison is not the same.
Hardened Ward when first released was utterly broken and I was the first person to create a long thread asking for it to be nerfed. A lot of people were doing what you're doing, arguing against me. Turns out I was right and ZOS eventually nerfed it to the ground. My feedback on abilities have been correct so far.
You're right, it's not the same... Because playing a healer is a lot more resource intensive than playing a normal damage build (block or not), thank you for pointing this out. You could do the same even easier on a block oriented DD build.
You may have picked up on how Hardened Ward was really strong before subclassing, well done. Unfortunately it stopped being strong the second subclassing was introduced (same patch where it was nerfed)... and now it's another dead ability in a game full of unused, dead abilities. And you've moved on to try and create more of them while thinking that's "good feedback".
The funniest thing is that even if old Hardened Ward existed on Live, it wouldn't be meta or considered "overpowered", because people have access to stronger skill lines with their own powerful defensive abilities... Since luckily "feedback" hasn't gotten all of those nerfed yet.
Me picking up on how Hardened Ward overperformed day one of PTS was the key. It was immediately feedback that the playerbase deemed “overreacting”, yet became true when the meta established. It didnt take me months to figure that out. It took 1 day of PTS testing. You dismissing or playing it off doesn’t change the fact that before subclass came out, my prediction was correct. Don’t try to veer off.
The same thing is happening in this thread. I am simply pointing out how Inhale can overperform. Whether the meta catches up or not, time will answer.
I have noticed that your style of arguing is very much bad faith. I don’t know if you do it intentionally or you just don’t realize it, but your responses to my claims have been mostly ad hominem or strawman arguments.
I'm arguing in bad faith? You're laser focused on one good ability in the game while there are so many other "overpowered" abilities in the game.
Where's the same outrage about Merciless Resolve? New Molten Whip (faster travel time, stacking, more tt damage, not reflectable)? Superheated Ward ("old" Hardened Ward basically)? Shalks? Ele sus? Rune? Siphoning Attacks? Vigor?
There's a lot of abilities that do what they do really well in the game, and the answer isn't to nerf all of them to the point of uselessness... Especially ones that are not even in the game yet, unless something is obviously bugged and breaking the game (i.e. Engulfing Dragonfire stacking, which was fixed afaik).
Inhale does not break the game any more so than existing abilities, which I've already proven with what I linked.
The answer to all these "overpowered abilities" is buffing other underperforming abilities in the game and giving more tools for people to compete without subclassing. Which I believe is the whole idea behind the reworks...
I’ve already pointed out using a skill that costs health as primary damage skill completely discredits any claim of a skill restoring stam and mag being overpowered. Considering if using another skill in place of BfB such as molten whip which costs both would likely better show how much one gets from inhale.
It doesn’t because sustain with Dark Deal using Bfb is much weaker. I don’t need to remove everything just to prove Inhale over performs. I just need to remove enough. You are ignoring this part of the argument to fit your own narrative.
0