SilverBride wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'd also add that when you are a solo player (I usually am) there are always other players like you who will happily group up for the convenience of completing content, without requiring you to speak or interact with them in any way.

IF that is the reason the player doesn't group. Some players just like to do things at their own pace and enjoy the story. Or don't want to be bothered waiting around for a group to form. Or have limited time to play that day and want to get the most from it. Or aren't geared enough to feel confident in their ability to join a dungeon group. (The last one was me for awhile so I worked on my gear and builds on all my guys and now feel comfortable in group content.)

So it's not a social thing that deters everyone from group content. Some of us that enjoy solo play enjoy group content, too. Just not every time.

Honestly, I've done all of those things myself and more. I'm not trying to make any assumption about anyone's reasons for being solo. I was just trying to make the point that whatever the reason, there are guilds and other players in the same situation should they need to be in a guild or a group to farm trial gear

hiyde wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I wish we didn't but judging and pressuring others to play the way someone else thinks they should, and telling them they shouldn't play an MMO unless they group still happens way too frequently.

Wow, I'm a lucky person! In decades of playing MMOs I've literally never once had that said to me.

It was said to someone in this very thread.

SilverBride wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I wish we didn't but judging and pressuring others to play the way someone else thinks they should, and telling them they shouldn't play an MMO unless they group still happens way too frequently.

Wow, I'm a lucky person! In decades of playing MMOs I've literally never once had that said to me.

It was said to someone in this very thread.

That doesn't change the accuracy of what I said in the partial quote above, or the rest of it.

Some of us just want to be able to do a vet dungeon 3 times to get the monster set and never step in there ever again.
Maybe keep the "notable" achievements only for groups, but I think making the vet dungeons more accessible for solo players a good step in the right direction.
Also most veteran dungeons are already solo-doable. Remove group mechanics from dungeons, and solo players will be happy.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I believe most players respect solo players and aren't particularly opposed to solo dungeons, provided that the rewards for solo dungeons are distinct from, and not superior to, those for group dungeons. This is because the difficulty of solo dungeons is inherently unlikely to exceed that of group dungeons. For example, in CR+3, players inside the portal need to coordinate with those outside to handle mechanics, but in a solo dungeon, there's no portal because there's only one player, eliminating the need for communication and coordination. Another example is the second boss in Black Gem Foundry. In a solo dungeon, the boss's beam attack is unlikely to be fatal because there's no tank blocking it, significantly reducing the difficulty.

These coordination-based mechanics are one reason why group dungeons attract group players. However, the biggest problem with group dungeons in ESO right now is that too many players have inadequate builds and don't understand or are unwilling to handle the mechanics. Tanks can't withstand boss attacks, healing is low, DPS is very low (some players only use bows for light attacks), and players stand still when mechanics occur, etc. These unqualified and unwilling players have fueled growing discontent among group players, and the increasingly long queue times have only exacerbated this discontent. The calls for the same rewards for solo dungeons as group dungeons have been the spark that ignited the anger of group players. Ultimately, what group players care about most is, "Why should you demand the same rewards when you're not willing to put in the same effort?"

I couldn't agree more!

...What people take issue with is the people who refuse to group for anything, and yet they demand that they should still be able to get the rewards for doing group content without grouping...

...What I don't agree with is coming into forums and demanding rewards for content you don't engage with. Or saying things like don't put that reward behind this content...

While I sort of agree with the above, as a solo player I don´t like it when content useful for solo players like me are locked behind group content. Putting trial sets as rewards in trials is one thing. Putting stuff like Dragonstar weapons behind "waiting for 5 hours every day for a week to get people to join and not quit", just sucks.

After all, we don´t have trial healer gear locked behind "kill 300 players in PvP"...

Also, IMO it creates a bit of a dysfunctional environment because people doing content they are forced to do (or at least don´t really want to do), aren´t the friendliest. And we have enough of that in ESO (see: Normal Dailies).

Of course, we have the Golden...

I dont demand it, but it would be nice if you could get some of the older content items from a vendor, at least if you could 'prove' via achievement that you cleared out Vateshran or something...

I mean, I am torn about this... on the one hand I felt it 'devalued' some monster sets when I found out you could buy them. OTOH some of us do not want internet friends and do not want to spend time doing trials (I did veteran voicechat trials years ago, it´s just not something I want to do anymore). ESO has tons of content for me. So alternative ways to get some items would be nice.

Group dungeons should be group dungeons. Mechanics and group coordination is fun! Playing solo is also fun though, and the approach is totally different - it´s like having several games in one, kind of sort of...

I mean, doing trials even as a DD who joins as a 'filler', I have to max damage and understand mechanics and follow the group leader. As a solo player versus world bosses or in PvP, I want different sets, I have to manage my resources alone, cannot rely on a tank to draw aggro etc. It is a different experience and mixing the populations against their will or making 'solo versions' of group content is IMO a bad idea. People don´t want the 'story' anyway, they want the gear. Making it purchasable and gating it behind achievements is better, and that´s what we already have.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what the situation is now when it comes to some trial weapons. I got most of what I wanted, deleted characters and lost it, didn´t care that much, and now play ESO 'for fun but with a bit of competitiveness mixed in' which is much healthier. But back when I wanted certain items and the trial guilds had moved on, man it was a hassle.

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'd also add that when you are a solo player (I usually am) there are always other players like you who will happily group up for the convenience of completing content, without requiring you to speak or interact with them in any way. You can 100% be solo and tag along with groups to do harder content. I've done a lot of normal trial runs with randoms and not said a word, just followed instructions from the group lead. Then still received a "thanks for healing" which is always appreciated

Some players don't understand that there are entirely legit reasons why a player may try to play solo as much as possible. I can be social or very very solo minded depending how RL is going. Sometimes I've been dealing with something and needed ESO as a distraction. I know others who have a diagnosis and genuinely have trouble interacting with people sometimes. Or simply prefer to be around players they know vs strangers.

So what I'm saying is don't feel like you have to avoid everyone in ESO, because there are others who 'get it' and they can actually be a good source of support inside and beyond ESO. I know I've been in voice with players who have diagnosed mental health things, and we can all talk safely about what's going on and our respective frustrations with work/family etc.

All this right here.

I love solo adventuring and there are reasons. But love chatting with my guild and supporting with whatever they need. I do love events though and wish that we'd have more of them. Taking down world bosses all together or more open world group content would be fun.

There is a fundamental flaw in your premise. Group content is harder, not because of the design, but because it requires a group - that's 4 - 12 people working together, acting together, and not making mistakes together.

A solo player can make a mistake and survive. Two or three players making a mistake means a death or wipe. A solo player only has to deal with what the mobs are doing, a group has to deal with what the mobs and the rest of the group are doing.

That argument can be reversed though: As a group player, I just need to do my specific role. I mess up, I can be resurrected. I do not need to heal, the healer does that for me. And so forth. (I know it´s different for tanks / healers depending on the exact setup).

As a solo PvP/PUG player, I need to manage damage output, mechanics (if applicable), defense, sustain, everything. I cannot rely on a healer, it is just a nice bonus sometimes. The environment is not predictable.

Both can be difficult, but in different ways. Trials are specifically designed to be hard though because that´s the target audience. But it is not inherent.

I fail to see the point on this discussion, ESO does mean grouping and it also means soloing, the thing is that you're not forced to do either, but also one doesn't exclude the other.

You're not going to run Vateshran in a group, but you're also not going to get Planesbreaker solo either, why is this such a difficult concept to accept?

Gabriel_H wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

That argument can be reversed though: As a group player, I just need to do my specific role. I mess up, I can be resurrected..

Well you just ruined the no death run for 3 - 11 other people. See the difference?

And in a reasonable group, everyone just says “ok, reset and try again.”

You know, just like how the solo arenas which ask for nodeaths will allow you to just reset and try again until you get it.

People are clinging on to this idea of “every person on the planet besides me is the most toxic horrible person that wants to dox me so they can kill me in my sleep.” Spoiler alert: that’s not common, especially if you start by looking for people you mesh with. And looking through the other thread, there are not only several suggestions of multi-platform guilds that are based around “run the content slowly to see the lore and without toxicity,” but we can see a number of different people who all have the same ideas that they want to run the content slowly and avoid toxicity. So… if there are a lot of people with similar ideas…

I get it, I really do. I have social anxiety. I have a mental health diagnosis from a therapist. But I chose not to let it control me. I chose to live my life and not be scared of it. And when I started ESO, I totally intended to play solo 100% of the time. But then I wanted a specific cosmetic, and for that I’d need to do group stuff. So I found a guild (one that was suggested in the other thread!) and started making friends and getting good at the gam. Now I can run things with others if I want to, or I can sit and do fashion for 35 hours straight if I want to. It opened more choices for me. And I’ll even say, learning more made me good enough that I can do more solo - one of the “upcoming solo” dungeons is perfectly soloable on normal (yes, people have even gotten the solo trifecta).

And even though I have every 4-man trifecta in the game - with my desired build, even, because I hate Subclassing and made it a point to get them all as a pure Class - I still know every story for every dungeon and trial. Why? Because my friends are also the ones who care about story and will do a slow first run. And if someone wants to see it, we go slower.

Because you don’t always find toxicity from others. You could also find respect.

Soarora wrote: »

If you’re not doing group content, you don’t need the gear from group content though? Maybe for minor slayer if you’re soloing dungeons & arenas but I’ve made DPS builds without trial sets that work completely fine. Right now, one of the meta sets is even craftable (tideborn for arcanist).

Of course I do group content such as battlegrounds and Solo Cyrodiil. It is really not fun to face with people one shot you,
just because they are in a guild or a part of a comunity and take place in group content. I have no problem with what I craft and content I do, the problem starts when I need to face with these people in pvp environments that gear makes huge difference.

There are games out there (guild wars2) regardless content you get the same high gear from pvp, dungeons, crafting or even other activities. This totally renders elitist mentality obsolute. I mean we all pay the same amount right? Why should a group content attendant should be rewarded with stronger gear which really makes difference in pvp.

Soarora wrote: »

The two groups you’ve laid out here aren’t mutually exclusive. I used the dungeon finder all the time when I was a casual. I still do solo things now, like IA and questing.

You can still have chance to do solo content and AI in hardcore realms... You missed my whole point, better gear reward from group content creates elitist mentallity against who does not have it, this is the core idea behind it. Seperated servers there hardcores have no problem doing group content will have same gear and they will not like this because elitist mentality needs some casuals who don't participate in group content.

Solution is either you will get everyone same progression gear with any of the above activities regardless group or solo content or you will seperate group defending and solo defending players.

I joined this post to give my insight because there was a guy one week ago who was complaining about addition of the solo dungeons will kill group finder which he thinks we casual solo players are not belong to mmo games.

What I said was: "A solo player can make a mistake and survive. Two or three players making a mistake means a death or wipe." - You should be able to infer from context that a single death is a problem.

1. I did do an edit. 2. Nope, there is nothing clear to 'infer' from that. A death in group content does not mean that the content is failed. Hell, we have sets that explicitly are designed for the multi-death situation. 3. I am not going to mind-read people on the internet.

And you've still got it backwards. So, the hardest content I have ever done is the MA and VH trifectas - I don't like the arena format, I find it dull and unengaging, so I had to really knuckle down and concentrate. Took me a few dozen hours of effort, learning the mechs, executing what I needed to do.

Now, lets turn to Veteran Lucent Citadel - I have 2/3 of the HM done. I've not run the HM often. So, why don't I have 3/3? Well, I'm typically the last to die.

So what you are saying is "difficulty is getting the hardest achievements that the devs threw in there". Well, by that logic if the devs threw in an achievement for 'solo face 4-man tryhards in 1v4 BG deathmatch for 10 consecutive hours winning every single match without dying once'', now all of a sudden solo play is 'harder'

And well, I can sense a tiny bit of frustration there...

MaleAmazon wrote: »

There is a fundamental flaw in your premise. Group content is harder, not because of the design, but because it requires a group - that's 4 - 12 people working together, acting together, and not making mistakes together.

A solo player can make a mistake and survive. Two or three players making a mistake means a death or wipe. A solo player only has to deal with what the mobs are doing, a group has to deal with what the mobs and the rest of the group are doing.

That argument can be reversed though: As a group player, I just need to do my specific role. I mess up, I can be resurrected. I do not need to heal, the healer does that for me. And so forth. (I know it´s different for tanks / healers depending on the exact setup).

As a solo PvP/PUG player, I need to manage damage output, mechanics (if applicable), defense, sustain, everything. I cannot rely on a healer, it is just a nice bonus sometimes. The environment is not predictable.

Both can be difficult, but in different ways. Trials are specifically designed to be hard though because that´s the target audience. But it is not inherent.

I always saw it like this. The gear from raiding is there to enable you to do the next level of raiding. There's nothing else in the game that requires that level of gear. Though I do understand that people do want the best thing because it's the best thing.