Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Cyrodiil Consensus?
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heimdall14_9✭✭✭YesYandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:20AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!2 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭NoI think blanket nerfs applied via Battle Spirit are bad game design.
Specific abilities or interactions should be reviewed and targeted for change rather than blanket nerfs applied via Battle Spirit.2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other
By the time all the problematic game elements have been removed, the end result will look more similar to Vengeance than to the current GH.The_Meathead wrote: »From there, things like RoA, Warden Charm, certain PvE set buffs, Snowtreaders and whatever else can be isolated and considered for potential changes, but it should start with the HoTs AND Shields.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭
By the time all the problematic game elements have been removed, the end result will look more similar to Vengeance than to the current GH.The_Meathead wrote: »From there, things like RoA, Warden Charm, certain PvE set buffs, Snowtreaders and whatever else can be isolated and considered for potential changes, but it should start with the HoTs AND Shields.
No it won't. Vengeance is templated. If they fix the problematic game elements in GH it will look like GH but be better because the problems will be resolved or at least mitigated in some way. ZOS can fix GH performance if they prioritized it, which is what they've said they've been doing for years, so that's what they should be doing.
Vengeance is a fail by every measure and always will be.
1 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yes@AD42
there is an full report not just bits and pieces , and thanks for showing that they can have special rules per environment keeps me from having too
Edited by heimdall14_9 on January 19, 2026 4:50PMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yes
[snip]heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
back your post with facts or do you not have any????
(edited so as not to get band)
And I'm sure you understood when you put the 28 m that that meant it was affecting skills when you say that all it is is a buff that (cannot affect skill mechanisms whatsoever)but it already does and is already put in place to do so thats what an CONTROL SYSTEM IS FOR just because its never been used to its fill potential doesnt mean its not there and able to do something
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:13AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other
Objectively false: Vengeance significantly improved performance according to the devs.ToddIngram wrote: »Vengeance is a fail by every measure and always will be.
So if the Vengeance build system fails, they'll work on fixing that, not revert to Lag Host.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
The_Meathead✭✭✭✭✭Yes
By the time all the problematic game elements have been removed, the end result will look more similar to Vengeance than to the current GH.The_Meathead wrote: »From there, things like RoA, Warden Charm, certain PvE set buffs, Snowtreaders and whatever else can be isolated and considered for potential changes, but it should start with the HoTs AND Shields.
To an extent, I suppose so!
I feel like there's a world of difference in end result depending on which end you start from, though. If I'm to pick from barely adding back customization bit by bit on Vengeance vs. removing the worst or most problematic outliers on Greyhost, I sure know which one I'd rather pick and play.
That said, I think Vengeance has been very beneficial for Greyhost. Ballgroups and stacked abilities weren't even discussed until well after several goes at Vengeance, and surely things have been learned in great amount from the experiment. I may not enjoy Vengeance nearly as much as I enjoy "live"/Greyhost Cyrodiil, but I'm glad it happened and helped propel us forward as a whole.
Best case scenario imo, changes are made with Battlespirit as to how HoTs stack, and the end result not only makes for remarkably better gameplay but also diminishes the bad impact excessively stacked abilities were having on the Server. I personally NEVER have lag in Cyrodiil without a Ballgroup being present, even in the biggest Zerg on Zerg, and certain Ballgroups have much greater impact than others. I think stacked HoTs and (not looking to open a whole can of worms here, but recent green text from Kevin really made me think more this direction) specific AddOns/3rd party some groups use might be part of the reason, so... here's hoping.3 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other
Vengeance still needs a lot of improvement. Cyro needs drastic change, that's what I'm invested in seeing. Whether success ultimately comes from Vengeance, the class reworks, or the devs' renewed responsiveness, that doesn't actually matter to me, so long as Cyro can finally change.The_Meathead wrote: »I may not enjoy Vengeance nearly as much as I enjoy "live"/Greyhost Cyrodiil, but I'm glad it happened and helped propel us forward as a whole.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP4 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:21AM0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:23AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
AD42✭✭✭Noheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
back your post with facts or do you not have any????
(edited so as not to get band)
Ability range of 28 meters or more increased by 8 Cyrodiil Bonus
Here's an image from the character buff section. It doesn't affect abilities.
It's purely a buff/debuff. I repeat, you're incompetent. Most of your posts are misleading. Prove that BATTLE SPIRIT affects abilities.
And I'm sure you understood when you put the 28 m that that meant it was affecting skills when you say that all it is is a buff that (cannot affect skill mechanisms whatsoever)but it already does and is already put in place to do so thats what an CONTROL SYSTEM IS FOR just because its never been used to its fill potential doesnt mean its not there and able to do something
The range of skills is a buff. Battle Spirit gives buffs or debuffs. Battle Spirit does not change skills. Provide at least one piece of evidence that Battle Spirit changes skills.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:22AM1 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
back your post with facts or do you not have any????
(edited so as not to get band)
Ability range of 28 meters or more increased by 8 Cyrodiil Bonus
Here's an image from the character buff section. It doesn't affect abilities.
It's purely a buff/debuff. I repeat, you're incompetent. Most of your posts are misleading. Prove that BATTLE SPIRIT affects abilities.
And I'm sure you understood when you put the 28 m that that meant it was affecting skills when you say that all it is is a buff that (cannot affect skill mechanisms whatsoever)but it already does and is already put in place to do so thats what an CONTROL SYSTEM IS FOR just because its never been used to its fill potential doesnt mean its not there and able to do something
The range of skills is a buff. Battle Spirit gives buffs or debuffs. Battle Spirit does not change skills. Provide at least one piece of evidence that Battle Spirit changes skills.
guessing you never played night blade as Merciless Resolve is affected by battle spirit us in we can pre stack our proc BOW then get out of combat and KEEP our stacks PVE , but in PVP we get out of combat them stacks go away, same skill two different actions depending on what environment you are in PVE or PVP one convener by BATTLE SPIRIT one NOT
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:25AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:24AM0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:28AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi all, thanks for the continued feedback provided in this thread. We recognize that many of you would still like to see this issue addressed – we do too! – and reverting this change doesn’t mean we are shelving it. Again, this first try was exactly that – it was a first try and just didn’t land. This is all part of development being a bit more fluid moving forward and allowing us the space to iterate and try different things.
We do still plan to revert this change which you’ll see in next week’s PTS patch, but in the spirit of iteration and talking through options, here are a couple options (it would need to be one or the other) we may be able to explore for Update 49:
We could reduce the 50% modifier to a lower value, such as 33%
We could increase the number of HoTs it takes to trigger the modifier, maybe to 5
There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, but realistically, many require time-consuming code changes and bandwidth is currently very tight with everything else the team is working on. Also keep in mind any options we lay out for Update 49 don’t and won’t prevent us from considering a longer-term option later. We are definitely open to discussing a short-term solution, though, and are interested to hear what you think of the two options presented above.
dont know if you seen it or not but was last word we got before getting put on hold in the post for week2 to start
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:29AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:31AM1 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
not that they have forgotten how to but they refused to for so long it need an complete update
its like an car ( the game ) sam gets a new everything is good , he hits a pothole ( 1st change to system) knocking the alignment ( battle spirit ) out , so he now has drag and drift ( mis-fire of skills / lag ) but changing the tires ( every update added / band-aid trying to fix drag and drift ) made it smooth out but not getting the alignment done , it works good for a little then the tires wear to where drag and drift is back ,so he just changes the tires again and again 5 or 6 times every 6-8 months for 5 years , then sales the car to joe ( new management team ) everything is good until drag and drift is back , joe takes it to the shop and finds his alignment is out so he has his tires changed while having his alignment adjusted ( NEW BATTLE SPIRIT SYSTEM ) now the tires last longer and the drag and drift is gone and the cars like new aging back to when it performed at its best and was most popular amongst the car club's.. was it the cars fault SAM didnt use his resources right and should JOE continue limiting his resources or see the waste by SAM by not dealing with the core issues
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:33AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
not that they have forgotten how to but they refused to for so long it need an complete update
its like an car ( the game ) sam gets a new everything is good , he hits a pothole ( 1st change to system) knocking the alignment ( battle spirit ) out , so he now has drag and drift ( mis-fire of skills / lag ) but changing the tires ( every update added / band-aid trying to fix drag and drift ) made it smooth out but not getting the alignment done , it works good for a little then the tires wear to where drag and drift is back ,so he just changes the tires again and again 5 or 6 times every 6-8 months for 5 years , then sales the car to joe ( new management team ) everything is good until drag and drift is back , joe takes it to the shop and finds his alignment is out so he has his tires changed while having his alignment adjusted ( NEW BATTLE SPIRIT SYSTEM ) now the tires last longer and the drag and drift is gone and the cars like new aging back to when it performed at its best and was most popular amongst the car club's.. was it the cars fault SAM didnt use his resources right and should JOE continue limiting his resources or see the waste by SAM by not dealing with the core issues
I completely agree but thats at least to me what it seems like they are doing they offered a short term solution and acknowledged doing anything else would require a larger effort to get it working rather than just pushing it out and slapping on band-aids all we can do is wait for the time to come to see how it actually plays out
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:33AM0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
not that they have forgotten how to but they refused to for so long it need an complete update
its like an car ( the game ) sam gets a new everything is good , he hits a pothole ( 1st change to system) knocking the alignment ( battle spirit ) out , so he now has drag and drift ( mis-fire of skills / lag ) but changing the tires ( every update added / band-aid trying to fix drag and drift ) made it smooth out but not getting the alignment done , it works good for a little then the tires wear to where drag and drift is back ,so he just changes the tires again and again 5 or 6 times every 6-8 months for 5 years , then sales the car to joe ( new management team ) everything is good until drag and drift is back , joe takes it to the shop and finds his alignment is out so he has his tires changed while having his alignment adjusted ( NEW BATTLE SPIRIT SYSTEM ) now the tires last longer and the drag and drift is gone and the cars like new aging back to when it performed at its best and was most popular amongst the car club's.. was it the cars fault SAM didnt use his resources right and should JOE continue limiting his resources or see the waste by SAM by not dealing with the core issues
I completely agree but thats at least to me what it seems like they are doing they offered a short term solution and acknowledged doing anything else would require a larger effort to get it working rather than just pushing it out and slapping on band-aids all we can do is wait for the time to come to see how it actually plays out
3 hots for 33% debuff to healing and 5 hots for 50% debuff to healing ARE both BAD BAND-AIDS but lot better than 3 hots for 50% debuff i just hope there is an PVP community left after this goes live
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:34AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭Noheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
not that they have forgotten how to but they refused to for so long it need an complete update
its like an car ( the game ) sam gets a new everything is good , he hits a pothole ( 1st change to system) knocking the alignment ( battle spirit ) out , so he now has drag and drift ( mis-fire of skills / lag ) but changing the tires ( every update added / band-aid trying to fix drag and drift ) made it smooth out but not getting the alignment done , it works good for a little then the tires wear to where drag and drift is back ,so he just changes the tires again and again 5 or 6 times every 6-8 months for 5 years , then sales the car to joe ( new management team ) everything is good until drag and drift is back , joe takes it to the shop and finds his alignment is out so he has his tires changed while having his alignment adjusted ( NEW BATTLE SPIRIT SYSTEM ) now the tires last longer and the drag and drift is gone and the cars like new aging back to when it performed at its best and was most popular amongst the car club's.. was it the cars fault SAM didnt use his resources right and should JOE continue limiting his resources or see the waste by SAM by not dealing with the core issues
I completely agree but thats at least to me what it seems like they are doing they offered a short term solution and acknowledged doing anything else would require a larger effort to get it working rather than just pushing it out and slapping on band-aids all we can do is wait for the time to come to see how it actually plays out
3 hots for 33% debuff to healing and 5 hots for 50% debuff to healing ARE both BAD BAND-AIDS but lot better than 3 hots for 50% debuff i just hope there is an PVP community left after this goes live
The PvP community is not going anywhere if these don't go live. The community loses people whenever there are reckless, unpopular and poorly tested changes. Like this one.
Reckless game design has landed the game in this spot. More reckless game design will dig the hole deeper rather than get it out.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:36AM1 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
not that they have forgotten how to but they refused to for so long it need an complete update
its like an car ( the game ) sam gets a new everything is good , he hits a pothole ( 1st change to system) knocking the alignment ( battle spirit ) out , so he now has drag and drift ( mis-fire of skills / lag ) but changing the tires ( every update added / band-aid trying to fix drag and drift ) made it smooth out but not getting the alignment done , it works good for a little then the tires wear to where drag and drift is back ,so he just changes the tires again and again 5 or 6 times every 6-8 months for 5 years , then sales the car to joe ( new management team ) everything is good until drag and drift is back , joe takes it to the shop and finds his alignment is out so he has his tires changed while having his alignment adjusted ( NEW BATTLE SPIRIT SYSTEM ) now the tires last longer and the drag and drift is gone and the cars like new aging back to when it performed at its best and was most popular amongst the car club's.. was it the cars fault SAM didnt use his resources right and should JOE continue limiting his resources or see the waste by SAM by not dealing with the core issues
I completely agree but thats at least to me what it seems like they are doing they offered a short term solution and acknowledged doing anything else would require a larger effort to get it working rather than just pushing it out and slapping on band-aids all we can do is wait for the time to come to see how it actually plays out
3 hots for 33% debuff to healing and 5 hots for 50% debuff to healing ARE both BAD BAND-AIDS but lot better than 3 hots for 50% debuff i just hope there is an PVP community left after this goes live
You didnt actually read what i wrote i said they offered a "temporary solution" and said anything more would have to happen later the band-aid is the temporary solution and they walked it back i dont know why you are being so combative to a change they already said isnt happening because of feedback
I cant speak for everyone but nearly all my friends already dont want to play in cyro now because of how laggy it can be mostly due to people stacking in a giant blob and no one ever dies and I agree its not a good long term solution but I think even just having a 1 week trial run of the 5 hot = 50% less healing would be better than nothing for x amount of months before a better option comes along
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:36AM0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yesheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
That's exactly in line with how people want them to fix this problem though modify battlespirit tobe able to change how skills function rather than just buff/debuff it dosnt matter how long it takes to implement so long as its a goal for the future
I think it is more that we do not want skills to function completely differently between the two modes. We literally already have that and it's called Vengeance. I, for one, do not want any semblance of Vengeance or Vengeance-like thinking in my Grey Host.
I also do not want a ton of new conditional logic bloating-up the already chugging servers. Which is why using the existing access points to tweak and balance aspects of the game is preferable to needlessly complicated and overengineered "solutions".
Im not saying that i want there tobe a full separation of balance and function between skills the game code might not allow them to not allow hots to limit themselves to 1 per target without having it affect both pve and pvp at the same time thats probably why they cant just do this currently it would need tobe adjusted so this behaviour can be done with battlespirit and not effect pve
Side note adding a new check to see if a hot would need tobe replaced rather than stack extra performance load would be negligible since you are gaining performance from not having 5+ of the same effect ticking away most likely
we use to have it so we only had 1 source of an skill. players aint asking for something thats never been done, we are asking for something that was, to come back
Just because a system in the game worked a certain way 8+ years ago dosnt mean it still works that way neither of us really know and all you can do is take what the devs tell us at face value aka if we did this it would require to many resources from the current task so it isnt happening right now
If it was as simple as flicking a on switch and enabling this one skill function it wouldn't take any resources
the only reason they'd need to use so many resources to get it updated is because they have for gotten to utilize the system years ago and new code doesnt mix with the old , this has been pointed to many of times and the dev team has used the same reasoning for not using the system to make other changes .. we cant let that be the reason all the time
Pretty much talking in a circle at the end of the day we are saying the same thing they cant do it right now for whatever reason and they have said in the original post on this topic that they might do it in the future just constantly saying "no u devs bad they just dont wanna do it" isnt actually accomplishing anything they have already stated if anything on that scale were to happen to change healing it would come in the future and its the first time they have ever said they would look into the idea as far as im aware outside of the community talking about it and no one from zenimax ever directly acknowledging it
where have i said that the dev team is BAD/WRONG/NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ... ive just stated reasons why we are where we are today and a way to move forward in fixing the issues at hand while trying to tech others what the battle spirit system even is and what it alreadys does in the game and how it could be used to control a lot more if we just stop disrespecting everyone who shows us something
Ok so the tldr is we agree they need to cap heals and your theory as to why we cannot just do it currently is because the devs forgot how to
not that they have forgotten how to but they refused to for so long it need an complete update
its like an car ( the game ) sam gets a new everything is good , he hits a pothole ( 1st change to system) knocking the alignment ( battle spirit ) out , so he now has drag and drift ( mis-fire of skills / lag ) but changing the tires ( every update added / band-aid trying to fix drag and drift ) made it smooth out but not getting the alignment done , it works good for a little then the tires wear to where drag and drift is back ,so he just changes the tires again and again 5 or 6 times every 6-8 months for 5 years , then sales the car to joe ( new management team ) everything is good until drag and drift is back , joe takes it to the shop and finds his alignment is out so he has his tires changed while having his alignment adjusted ( NEW BATTLE SPIRIT SYSTEM ) now the tires last longer and the drag and drift is gone and the cars like new aging back to when it performed at its best and was most popular amongst the car club's.. was it the cars fault SAM didnt use his resources right and should JOE continue limiting his resources or see the waste by SAM by not dealing with the core issues
I completely agree but thats at least to me what it seems like they are doing they offered a short term solution and acknowledged doing anything else would require a larger effort to get it working rather than just pushing it out and slapping on band-aids all we can do is wait for the time to come to see how it actually plays out
3 hots for 33% debuff to healing and 5 hots for 50% debuff to healing ARE both BAD BAND-AIDS but lot better than 3 hots for 50% debuff i just hope there is an PVP community left after this goes live
You didnt actually read what i wrote i said they offered a "temporary solution" and said anything more would have to happen later the band-aid is the temporary solution and they walked it back i dont know why you are being so combative to a change they already said isnt happening because of feedback
I cant speak for everyone but nearly all my friends already dont want to play in cyro now because of how laggy it can be mostly due to people stacking in a giant blob and no one ever dies and I agree its not a good long term solution but I think even just having a 1 week trial run of the 5 hot = 50% less healing would be better than nothing for x amount of months before a better option comes along
Cyrodiil
Heal-over-Time Changes [Feedback]: After feedback about the originally proposed changes to how Battlespirit modifies Heals-over-Time in Cyrodiil, we are reverting the change in PTS Week 2 (related post.) We are investigating alternate short-term and long-term solutions (related post.) One of the short-term solutions we defined in that second related post link would be possible for us to get in for an upcoming PTS incremental and Update 49. Longer-term solutions are still under discussion.
they said its possible to get the changes done this PTS to get 1 of the 2 options gave to US and by majority of the post players are willing to try the 5 hots for 50% and come back to it in another update , but we've heard that enough when it comes to CYRODIIL that is hard to believe that this time won't be any different from the rest sorry too many years being told the same has gotten to be old
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:38AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭YesYes the 5 hot cap aka the short term they can get done and were asking people if they should do it not they are doing it i know way to many people that already dont want to play cyro as it currently is so at least to me and the people I know this cant ruin it anymore than it already is because even if its bad we just go from not playing to not playing but I dont think we should commit to any changes we should be feeling them out in maybe small 1 week events0
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heimdall14_9✭✭✭YesYes the 5 hot cap aka the short term they can get done and were asking people if they should do it not they are doing it i know way to many people that already dont want to play cyro as it currently is so at least to me and the people I know this cant ruin it anymore than it already is because even if its bad we just go from not playing to not playing but I dont think we should commit to any changes we should be feeling them out in maybe small 1 week events
that could be an good way to figure out what really works and players like ok try 5 hots 50% , then try 3hots 33% , then try 1 hot per source, then try 1 shield per source, then try 1 hot/1 shield per source thats 5 test events to make 2xs AP and test for the next best thing if that be the roadmap put forth at end of PTS i could stand behind that type of changing
id even invite them to put it side by side with vengeance testing just to see what of the two get more interactionsEdited by heimdall14_9 on January 20, 2026 5:09AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
AD42✭✭✭Noheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
back your post with facts or do you not have any????
(edited so as not to get band)
Ability range of 28 meters or more increased by 8 Cyrodiil Bonus
Here's an image from the character buff section. It doesn't affect abilities.
It's purely a buff/debuff. I repeat, you're incompetent. Most of your posts are misleading. Prove that BATTLE SPIRIT affects abilities.
And I'm sure you understood when you put the 28 m that that meant it was affecting skills when you say that all it is is a buff that (cannot affect skill mechanisms whatsoever)but it already does and is already put in place to do so thats what an CONTROL SYSTEM IS FOR just because its never been used to its fill potential doesnt mean its not there and able to do something
The range of skills is a buff. Battle Spirit gives buffs or debuffs. Battle Spirit does not change skills. Provide at least one piece of evidence that Battle Spirit changes skills.
guessing you never played night blade as Merciless Resolve is affected by battle spirit us in we can pre stack our proc BOW then get out of combat and KEEP our stacks PVE , but in PVP we get out of combat them stacks go away, same skill two different actions depending on what environment you are in PVE or PVP one convener by BATTLE SPIRIT one NOT
Show the mention in the patch notes that BATTLE SPIRIT changes Merciless Resolve?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:26AM0 -
AD42✭✭✭Noheimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely in favor of only one copy of a given healing/shielding morph operating on a player.
But the proposal for shields was ambiguous enough for me not to vote for it.
I think that you want to ensure as much continuity with PvE rules and combat mechanics as is possible with any change. So I disfavor highly arbitrary and meta-gamey restrictions like "shields can only reach X% of a target's Max HP" or "players may only have Y shields on them at a given time". Not only do those approaches come with their own significant drawbacks, edge-cases, and overhead, but they do not articulate with the rest of the game's mechanics at all and so we should, IMO, pull other levers first for balancing shields.
In my eyes, the biggest two offending skills are, without a doubt, Warding Burst and Shielding Conti. Why? Because they are mundane abilities that can and are spammed nearly every GCD during combat, and, when you build for it, exceed ultimate-like levels of shielding without having to... use an actual ultimate. If you look at ballgroup logs for shields, those two abilities always top the charts.
The skills behave that way because they, for whatever bad reason or oversight, scale with Max HP and not exclusively with Max Resources as they should. So groups pump-up Max HP on one caster and then use them to spam giant HP-inflated shields on everyone else. As a rule, self-shields meant for PvE tanks should be the only shields to scale with Max HP and everything else should scale from Max Resources.
That simple change would completely neuter the Scribing shields for PvP groups and groups would likely stop using them altogether as a result (I know that my group would), eliminating a huge portion of their overall shield stack and relegating what remains to the domain of ultimates, which, IMO, should be strong.
From there, you can simply use the existing Battle Spirit mechanics to globally tune shield strength if it was still necessary, to perhaps 45% strength.
once you used PvE as part of your reasoning you lost me
we are talking about an BATTLE SPIRIT change that well do 0 change to how PvE works and how PvE works has no place in the matter how PvP should work , thats been the biggest factor with PVP has been out of control for so long PVE being effected by change to skills ... DONT LET AN CHANGE TO BATTLE SPIRIT GET BOLOCKED FOR THE SAME ABUSED REASON
You don't understand that BATTLE SPIRIT is a kind of buff/debuff. It doesn't allow you to change skill mechanics. And all the suggestions in this thread are about skill changes.
Any skill change affects PVE. [snip]
back your post with facts or do you not have any????
(edited so as not to get band)
Ability range of 28 meters or more increased by 8 Cyrodiil Bonus
Here's an image from the character buff section. It doesn't affect abilities.
It's purely a buff/debuff. I repeat, you're incompetent. Most of your posts are misleading. Prove that BATTLE SPIRIT affects abilities.
And I'm sure you understood when you put the 28 m that that meant it was affecting skills when you say that all it is is a buff that (cannot affect skill mechanisms whatsoever)but it already does and is already put in place to do so thats what an CONTROL SYSTEM IS FOR just because its never been used to its fill potential doesnt mean its not there and able to do something
The range of skills is a buff. Battle Spirit gives buffs or debuffs. Battle Spirit does not change skills. Provide at least one piece of evidence that Battle Spirit changes skills.
guessing you never played night blade as Merciless Resolve is affected by battle spirit us in we can pre stack our proc BOW then get out of combat and KEEP our stacks PVE , but in PVP we get out of combat them stacks go away, same skill two different actions depending on what environment you are in PVE or PVP one convener by BATTLE SPIRIT one NOT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BZ0ddoclik
BATTLE SPIRIT does not work on Merciless Resolve. You are wrong once again.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2026 11:26AM0 -
opethmaniac✭✭✭Yes* Only self-heal + one heal from another resource (maybe limit to group members only)
* NO shield stacking
Organized groups will still benefit from times ultimates, synergies and buff coverage.
Additionally introduce diminishing returns for every crowd-control effect.
This would force player to invest more in tankiness (less damage) or more damage (less tankiness) and prevent large groups to play god mode and single player to get unkillable tanks.
It also makes solo play more rewarding.0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭Yes@AD42 heres how youd test something to see the different actions between two areas 1st is pvp where merciless resolve loses its stacks outside of combat 2nd is pve where it holds it stacks outside of combat
https://youtu.be/GmuUc3oYgBI Edited by heimdall14_9 on January 20, 2026 10:53AMNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 98% full game all vet HM SR ND release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0
