oh wow. they really are starting to listen to feedback. im sure you're happy @React i remember seeing you complain about this. It is very annoying.

coop500 wrote: »

Great, now make the telvar thieves have to carry some stones too so the risk is actually RISKY for everyone involved, not just PvEers farming mobs.

Nice try. I always roam with at least 1000 Tel Var. The "PvEers" that are venturing into PVP content will not be saved.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Great change for the gankers, I guess. Not sure how this is going to bring more people into the zone, but I doubt that's the point. It's no fun when your victims can flee a one-sided violation, I suppose. Guess they can "git gud" or just not play the mode.

Hint: they'll just not play the mode.

Wrong. I farm the Imperial City and fight any enemy players I come across. Its my favorite content in the game and its what I spend the majority of my hours doing. Whether or not PVP or PVE players show up, I will. Players who PVP in PVP content aren't called gankers; they're players. They are playing precisely as the game has been designed. Its a good change for everyone who likes PvPvE content. Don't like the whole package? ESO has a lot of room for plenty of player types.

coop500 wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Great change for the gankers, I guess. Not sure how this is going to bring more people into the zone, but I doubt that's the point. It's no fun when your victims can flee a one-sided violation, I suppose. Guess they can "git gud" or just not play the mode.

Hint: they'll just not play the mode.

Yup, I'm not playing the mode anymore once the update drops. Tired of being bullied for mandatory PVE tanking glyphs.
Guess I'll just farm more gold and buy from the trader.
Wait, prices will probably skyrocket due to this change, so uuh.. yeah.

Yep. You'll have to buy them from me. I basically only charge 10k maybe I can reduce it for you.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Great change for the gankers, I guess. Not sure how this is going to bring more people into the zone, but I doubt that's the point. It's no fun when your victims can flee a one-sided violation, I suppose. Guess they can "git gud" or just not play the mode.

Hint: they'll just not play the mode.

Wrong. I farm the Imperial City and fight any enemy players I come across. Its my favorite content in the game and its what I spend the majority of my hours doing. Whether or not PVP or PVE players show up, I will. Players who PVP in PVP content aren't called gankers; they're players. They are playing precisely as the game has been designed. Its a good change for everyone who likes PvPvE content. Don't like the whole package? ESO has a lot of room for plenty of player types.

Okay, I'll bite... how am I wrong? You're one of the gankers. You like the change because people can't flee you anymore by hiding in a corner and queuing for Cyrodiil once they hit their goal. Of course you are going to keep playing the mode. This change doesn't negatively impact YOU at all. It's specifically made for YOUR benefit.

But the mode already isn't very popular. PVP in ESO is obtuse and janky. Figuring out an actually decent combination of skills, gear, traits, and so on was bad enough BEFORE sub-classing. Now it's pure unmitigated misery for most players, who just don't stand a chance against the hardcore peeps who have toughed out the esoteric madness and built their meta-gank characters. The only way a new participant to Imperial City would beat you is if you fell asleep at your keyboard. Even then, I'm not entirely sure they'd pull it off. :-D

This change is just going to chase them away. Your easy prey is going to evaporate, save once every six months when ZOS throws you a bone. Even then, people will just focus on the few dailies that involve the minimum amount of fuss to get done as quick as possible.

Eh. Oh well. You seem fine with it, given your boasting about how coop500 will have to buy tanking runes from you (but maybe, MAYBE, you'll find it in your heart to give him a discount).

Yeah I reported that comment for baiting. And people wonder why folks like me don't like PvPers. They're nasty man.

And yes, this is all very much something people should keep in mind, especially those HAPPY about the change.
This change isn't going to bring anyone back, it's just going to drive prey away. You'll see some who don't know the change came into effect until it's too late, but once it becomes widespread knowledge among folks ingame (not just forums), the ghosttown of IC is going to become even moreso.

Something more needs to be done with the mode to make it attractive and FUN and FAIR for everyone, not just one minority.

coop500 wrote: »

And people wonder why folks like me don't like PvPers. They're nasty man.

This kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated on the forums, period.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

I mean... I'm not trying to be mean-spirited to you, Markytous.

Not all PVPers are gankers, but some are. Some just live for the hunt and love it.

On-topic aside: my best friend played this game for four years. He lived for the ganking. He was a Khajiit nightblade, and he adored it. He'd wait by the Chorrol quest givers for lone PVE players trying to do the dailies. Mmm, good eating. He'd hide, let 'em pick up a quest, spend five minutes doing it (the quests in Chorrol are garbage-tier design), and then he'd kill 'em when they came to turn it in. They'd get respawned five minutes away with it in their log and have to wonder if it was worth trying again to turn it in. He loved it when they tried a second time. Sometimes they'd panic and fall in the lava fissures trying to get away from him. Chorrol is very badly designed. If you fall in that pit, you're dead. There's no reasonable way out. He'd watch 'em and laugh. "See you in five minutes, scrub."

If someone experienced came by who he knew he couldn't take, he'd go to Vlastarus. Wait for a red or blue player to wander by. Let 'em pick up a quest, of course. When he'd kill 'em, they'd respawn ten to twenty minutes away! YAY!!! What a wonderful feeling.

He got discouraged over time as Cyrodiil's player count dwindled and his pool of victims shrank. Didn't know where everyone was going or why they were leaving. Then he quit. I wonder if he ever put it all together, haha.

It's that kind of stuff. All this change does is impact new / casual players, who have no way to avoid you now. The hardcore won't care, but the casuals aren't going to make it back to base camp alive. There's no fast way back home outside an absurdly over-priced one-time bauble. They're just going to get hunted and ganked (which this is. They have no chance against you) for their shards. Effectively, this change charges them a 50% tax on everything they earn. A tax that you've gleefully stated you'll be collecting.

People will just bounce, dude. They'll just move on, save every six months when ZOS FOMO's them back in for twelve days.

This is a bad call. I can see why ZOS would want to do this, but it's a bad call.

I disagree because I enjoy the PVE solo farming in Imperial City with the PVP as a major plus. So, respectfully, I in no way identify with the anecdotes of your best buds Cyro trolling. I'm merely defending the philosophy and intent of the PvPvE environment that exists in the Imperial City because it exists NOWHERE ELSE in the entire MMORPG space. It's the closest any MMORPG gets to something similar to Dark Souls' Online Infrastructure and thus I stick up for the design philosophy and mechanics. If people don't like it, thats okay. They don't have to play it. I just don't understand why people who enjoy PvPvE environments fully, not just PvE players farming late hours to get lucky rich or PVP players just looking to PVP, are the ones who have to suffer over it.

If everyone leaves the Imperial City, it bothers me none. I farm the Imperial City because it is a decent use of my time in the game to give me a myriad of rewards. Its exciting. Would it be unfortunate to be the only player in there? Sure. However that would mean I would solely run the Hakeijo monopoly. Does that make sense? Cheers for trying to be reasonable and not be toxic like many "PVP haters" can be these days.

As someone who is in IC constantly, the notion that gankers will benefit the most from this is ridiculous.

Gankers were the ones abusing a free ticket out of IC more than anyone else.

In the live server, if I'm running with a group of my friends, this is how it typically goes:

A ganker will repeatedly attempt to gank the lowest health member of the group. Once they finally succeed, they pop invis and immediately queue for Cyrodiil, with no way for my group to punish them. This is how every ganking interaction goes.

Now, gankers will not be able to do this. They will target solo players so that they can get away with 100% of the TelVar, as they no longer have a free ticket out of IC by queueing for Cyrodiil as soon as they get a kill.

IC was designed like this. You are supposed to use the Sigils of Imperial Retreat, which leave you vulnerable for a few seconds, or go through the sewers to get back to your base. Why do you think the sewers are always empty on Live? Probably because you have no need to go down there when you can hit a button and port out of IC for free.

If you want to get out of IC easily, grab some Sigils of Imperial Retreat. If you aren't currently abusing the Cyrodiil queue to escape fights, literally nothing has changed for you other than needing to drop a small amount of AP on a sigil. Do your farming, go to a door or a corner of the map, and pop a Sigil to leave.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Great change for the gankers, I guess. Not sure how this is going to bring more people into the zone, but I doubt that's the point. It's no fun when your victims can flee a one-sided violation, I suppose. Guess they can "git gud" or just not play the mode.

Hint: they'll just not play the mode.

It won't. For the most part PvE players imho are not there for tel-var stones. PvE players got to IC primarily for story quests, skyshards, fishing achievement and maybe sometimes they return to stuck up on daily quest right before PvP event. Other than that the zone is just way to toxic, sometimes even for players who occasionally PvP. So it shouldn't be a surprise that it is "dead". Players just go in, do their business and go away as fast as they can cuz for many (lets face it) - they just don't want to deal with BS. So I fully expect people to use /stuck or teleport stones or even log-off and login on different character.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Thank you ZOS for standing up for the vision of Imperial City! Tension, risk and rewards will see the thrill of this PVP content return to how things were before the servers of IC and Cyrodiil were separated. I have been requesting this for YEARS. This year is going to be a good one for Elder Scrolls Online. One more giant THANK YOU to Zenimax and the ESO team for making my favorite content in the entire game return to how it was designed and how it should remain.

As for those who wish to leave the Imperial City mid-excursion into the depths or across the districts, this item is your ticket to a painless exit with all of your blue-tinted treasures in your pockets:



Great change. Much love! Thanks for not giving up on the Imperial City.

Now they just need to add "Retreat Scamps" that drop Sigils of Imperial Retreat to topside and the sewers to add some action.

They could definitely increase the drop rate of the Sigils! I have collected a decent amount on my own but I don't see a reason why they couldn't make them more common.

Markytous wrote: »

Tension, risk and rewards will see the thrill of this PVP content return to how things were before the servers of IC and Cyrodiil were separated.

That is inaccurate. I don't know how Imperial City worked before the earliest changes (e.g., being able to enter without having to capture all six "emperorship" keeps), because those changes had already been made before I started playing ESO, but I know for a fact that it absolutely was possible to queue out of Imperial City back before the Cyrodiil and Imperial City servers were separated. It did work differently then than it does now that the servers are separated, but queuing out of Imperial City was possible nonetheless. It worked as follows:

Entering Imperial City -- While in Cyrodiil, you had to go to one of the three sewer entrances on the shores of Lake Rumare and enter. You were placed in your alliance's base in the sewers.

Returning to Cyrodiil (normally) -- While in your alliance's sewer base, take the exit out of the sewers. You were placed in one of your alliance's two bases in Cyrodiil.

This could be used to quickly retreat back to your alliance base in Cyrodiil if you were some distance away, by heading to the closest sewer entrance (not necessarily the one in your alliance's "home" section of Cyrodiil), going inside, then exiting again. I used to do that when I had just completed a scouting mission in enemy territory on the far side of the map, so I could turn in the scouting mission and grab another one.

Queuing out of Imperial City (from anywhere in the districts or sewers) -- Assuming you were in your "home" campaign, you could queue for one of the other campaigns as a "guest." Accepting the queue when it popped would place you in one of your alliance's two bases in Cyrodiil. You could also do this while anywhere in Cyrodiil. Or, if you were in a "guest" campaign, you could queue for your "home" campaign. Again, this worked whether you were in Imperial City or Cyrodiil, and placed you at a base in Cyrodiil. So rather than queuing from Cyrodiil to Imperial City, or vice versa, within a particular campaign, you were actually queuing from your home campaign to a guest campaign, or vice versa, and were always taken to a Cyrodiil base. But you could definitely queue out of Imperial City this way, and I used to do that after going to Imperial City to craft gear in one of the three Imperial City set-crafting stations for a master writ. Someone in the forums actually clued me into this.

When Imperial City was separated from Cyrodiil, such that the three sewer entrances were taken out of service, it removed the ability to queue from one Cyrodiil campaign to another, but it did not introduce the ability to queue out of Imperial City, since that was already possible before the separation.

As far as the upcoming change, my own feeling is that there are two types of players who will be hurt the most by it-- casual players who are just trying to do district dailies (either for event tickets or for the once-a-day Siege of Cyrodiil Merit), and PvP players who enjoy farming other players in the hopes of getting lots of Tel Var and then using the add-on that lets them beat a quick retreat from fights they're afraid of losing. The casual players probably don't have much Tel Var to lose anyway, whereas the PvP players who've been using the add-on are the ones most likely to be at risk of losing huge amounts of Tel Var. If the upcoming change results in casual players choosing to just avoid Imperial City altogether, the PvP players will no longer have as many "easy pickings" in Imperial City for them to farm. They will still be able to beat a retreat by using a Sigil of Imperial Retreat, although it's my understanding that that can be interrupted.

kind_hero wrote: »

I see the problem somewhere else. People shouldn't be "forced" to do PvP for tickets or other FOMO during events, tickets that are part of something larger, like a house, which is obtained in several events.

Well, people should not be forced to do PvE or quests for tickets. Currently, you have to do either PvP, either PvE. Endeavors have a choice, so if ZOs with continue this way, I think this topic is closed - you choose this, either that. With Mayhem as an exception.

Tonturri wrote: »

Does Imperial City have a mechanic that only lets you gain as much tel var from killing a player as you're currently holding? Until risk is equalized between combatants I don't see much happening. This is a decent change though, but I hope they adjust it a little bit. 100 TV is a bit low.

I've been begging for this, because currently, no. Oftentimes people run around with 0 telvar and will happily take half of yours with no risk on their part. And if you manage to defend yourself? You get nothing, and they're back in your face 15 seconds later.

Markytous wrote: »

As long as a long-standing exploit is gone, its a good change. "Queuing out" always betrayed the design of the Imperial City. When logging out of your character while in IC, logging back in would put you right where you were. I think people are not counting their blessings, as usually ZOS will suspend players who exploit in the game. A lot of people have straight up been exploiting IC queue-outs despite the inclusion of the Sigil of Imperial Retreat, which shows that lossless teleports out of IC was not the intent of the developers. I played before Imperial City had a queue system and was attached to Azura's Star/Blackwater Blade Cyrodiil Campaigns. Before Imperial City was given as a free DLC, it was for restrictive than it is now. Even now, you can't queue from one "version" of Cyrodiil to the next. IC must be used as a junction to get from one Cyro server to the next currently on Live. This phenomenon has only since been introduced with the free Imperial City update. IC has been used to jump from Grey Host to Blackreach/Ravenwatch. I was there, I played it, and queuing out was only an issue when Imperial City was offered as free content/separated from Cyrodiil.

Queuing out has never not been an exploit is the point. It is fixed now and can work as intended (for the most part). We will most likely never see Cyrodiil and Imperial City instances merged together ever again (which would also be a fix to the issue), but not allowing queue-outs during combat and only in safe zones mostly fixes farmers and gankers who exploit the queue.

If ZOS had wanted to prevent queuing out of either Imperial City or Cyrodiil, they could have done it years ago, before the two zones were split into separate campaigns.

But it was possible back then to queue from one campaign (of Cyro/IC) to another-- and back, if desired-- and the fact that such cross-campaign queuing was never restricted or (as far as I know) punished, suggests it wasn't deemed an "exploit." I've no idea what sorts of discussions might have been going on at ZOS, and different employees may have had opinions which were not in 100% agreement with the "final say," but the point is they could have put restrictions on cross-campaign queuing back then, but they didn't. Nor did they ever post any statements that cross-campaign queuing was as "exploit," would not be tolerated henceforth, and issue any bans (temporary or permanent) for it.

Seriously, if they can now add some code to check your Tel Var balance and not let you queue out if your balance is "too high," don't you think they could have done it then?

Or better yet, if cross-campaign queuing-- whether between "home" and "guest" campaigns back then, or between Cyro and IC campaigns now-- is seen as breaking the very spirit of the design of IC, they could just remove it completely. "Is player in Cyro or IC? Then option to join queue is disabled." That seems more comprehensive than checking a player's TV balance and then either letting them join a queue or not.

Furthermore, if they don't want players to be able to quickly and conveniently return to their IC base from anywhere in IC, or to their Cyro base from anywhere in Cyro, why have Sigils of Imperial Retreat and Keep Recall Stones in the game at all? Just get rid of those, too (in addition to disabling any queuing), and the "problem" is gone for good.

MATH_COW wrote: »

This post is a good proof that PvPers doesn't want to pvp but only to get easy kill.

Don't not try to make us believe this change will be bad for gankers who wouldn't be able to leave easy after getting good kills, those kind of players are build to be sneaky in general and so can safely run back to base or anyway have certainly sigil to teleport safely.

This change will force people who come for little farming, dailies, questing or tickets who would like to save the few Tel Var they managed to get to take more risk to die from those same gankers and sneaky rats in sewers while going back to their base.

Those sewers first area will be worst now as it will be a 100% predictable place to find people going back to their base to save their Tel Var, which will make it worst to farm Tel Var on monsters and little boss for those who doesn't like to risk going in the district.

All I see there is people being happy to see their easy kill being trap by the game, never beating the allegations.

And if being able to leave from anywhere the city wasn't really in the idea of this area why the hell those sigil exist...
All this change will do will make the city more desert than before and the few who come for dailies will not bother anymore to get Tel Var to be able to teleport or to die without regret of losing anything. Enjoy this boring deadzone, you asked for it.

Have you read through and saw that I farm the Imperial City, soloing bosses and generally PVEing alongside my PVP experience there? I don't understand these generalizations that keep getting cast over PVP players. I don't have millions of Tel Var Stones just fighting players. I do everything, including quests in the Imperial City. Please refrain from generalizing others and looking down on them. Its not healthy for the community.

EDIT: Queuing out was an exploit. Exploiting is against the TOS.