Flames of oblivion changes hurt molten whip playstyle

Wup_sa · January 15

On live FoO is a great spammable that allows you to gain seething fury stacks very reliably and sustain friendly. On pts this was changed to a totally useless ability that now works closesly to what core of the flame does (Inhale). I think it would be the best option to revert FoO changes and keep it as a spammable for those who enjoy molten whip playstyle.

making fury stacks of every dk ability doesn't solve the issue, since the average cost of a dk ability is between 3500 - 4000 mag. DOTs are obviosly cheaper but it's a DOT, a skill that is meant to run for the whole duration and not casted every second. if you wish to keep the new Incinerate (Flames of oblivion) please put it to the cautherize morph that barely anyone uses and let the FoO stay as it currently is on live.
If FoO becomes an AoE DOT it will especially hurt dks viability in PvP. I have now been PvPing with Lash and Molten whip and Lash is currently overperforming in terms of tankyness, sustain, healing and damage compared to molten whip.

Lash Build: Jeralls, Malacath, Rally and Elf bane
Molten build: Bloodspawn, Sea-serpent, Rally, Pyre brand

Another big reason to the underperfomance of molten whip is the nerf of petrify. There are addons that tell you to dodge/block/etc which makes already the obvious visual it gives far easier to counter. The stun should remain unblockable and undodgeable, but the 1 second delay is fine.

MXVIIDREAM · January 15

Wup_sa wrote: »

On live FoO is a great spammable that allows you to gain seething fury stacks very reliably and sustain friendly. On pts this was changed to a totally useless ability that now works closesly to what core of the flame does (Inhale). I think it would be the best option to revert FoO changes and keep it as a spammable for those who enjoy molten whip playstyle.

making fury stacks of every dk ability doesn't solve the issue, since the average cost of a dk ability is between 3500 - 4000 mag. DOTs are obviosly cheaper but it's a DOT, a skill that is meant to run for the whole duration and not casted every second. if you wish to keep the new Incinerate (Flames of oblivion) please put it to the cautherize morph that barely anyone uses and let the FoO stay as it currently is on live.
If FoO becomes an AoE DOT it will especially hurt dks viability in PvP. I have now been PvPing with Lash and Molten whip and Lash is currently overperforming in terms of tankyness, sustain, healing and damage compared to molten whip.

Lash Build: Jeralls, Malacath, Rally and Elf bane
Molten build: Bloodspawn, Sea-serpent, Rally, Pyre brand

Another big reason to the underperfomance of molten whip is the nerf of petrify. There are addons that tell you to dodge/block/etc which makes already the obvious visual it gives far easier to counter. The stun should remain unblockable and undodgeable, but the 1 second delay is fine.

Think you’re right to say this should remain as is but potentially with a significant cost decrease 4k is huge, I’d like to point out that if you line this burst up with deep breath and fossilize they can roll out of it for sure but did you’re busting correctly that’s exactly the moment you line up your burst correctly and leap

Wup_sa · January 15

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

On live FoO is a great spammable that allows you to gain seething fury stacks very reliably and sustain friendly. On pts this was changed to a totally useless ability that now works closesly to what core of the flame does (Inhale). I think it would be the best option to revert FoO changes and keep it as a spammable for those who enjoy molten whip playstyle.

making fury stacks of every dk ability doesn't solve the issue, since the average cost of a dk ability is between 3500 - 4000 mag. DOTs are obviosly cheaper but it's a DOT, a skill that is meant to run for the whole duration and not casted every second. if you wish to keep the new Incinerate (Flames of oblivion) please put it to the cautherize morph that barely anyone uses and let the FoO stay as it currently is on live.
If FoO becomes an AoE DOT it will especially hurt dks viability in PvP. I have now been PvPing with Lash and Molten whip and Lash is currently overperforming in terms of tankyness, sustain, healing and damage compared to molten whip.

Lash Build: Jeralls, Malacath, Rally and Elf bane
Molten build: Bloodspawn, Sea-serpent, Rally, Pyre brand

Another big reason to the underperfomance of molten whip is the nerf of petrify. There are addons that tell you to dodge/block/etc which makes already the obvious visual it gives far easier to counter. The stun should remain unblockable and undodgeable, but the 1 second delay is fine.

Think you’re right to say this should remain as is but potentially with a significant cost increase, I’d like to point out that if you line this burst up with deep breath and fossilize they can roll out of it for sure but did you’re busting correctly that’s exactly the moment you line up your burst correctly and leap

Leap simply does no damage to meta builds so it's irrelevant. Corossive has been used for all the testing. Keep in mind this was meant to put pure dk on par with subclassed builds, which it's not doing, it's still severely left behind and FoO would let dk come much closer with more reliable burst.

MXVIIDREAM · January 15

Wup_sa wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

On live FoO is a great spammable that allows you to gain seething fury stacks very reliably and sustain friendly. On pts this was changed to a totally useless ability that now works closesly to what core of the flame does (Inhale). I think it would be the best option to revert FoO changes and keep it as a spammable for those who enjoy molten whip playstyle.

making fury stacks of every dk ability doesn't solve the issue, since the average cost of a dk ability is between 3500 - 4000 mag. DOTs are obviosly cheaper but it's a DOT, a skill that is meant to run for the whole duration and not casted every second. if you wish to keep the new Incinerate (Flames of oblivion) please put it to the cautherize morph that barely anyone uses and let the FoO stay as it currently is on live.
If FoO becomes an AoE DOT it will especially hurt dks viability in PvP. I have now been PvPing with Lash and Molten whip and Lash is currently overperforming in terms of tankyness, sustain, healing and damage compared to molten whip.

Lash Build: Jeralls, Malacath, Rally and Elf bane
Molten build: Bloodspawn, Sea-serpent, Rally, Pyre brand

Another big reason to the underperfomance of molten whip is the nerf of petrify. There are addons that tell you to dodge/block/etc which makes already the obvious visual it gives far easier to counter. The stun should remain unblockable and undodgeable, but the 1 second delay is fine.

Think you’re right to say this should remain as is but potentially with a significant cost increase, I’d like to point out that if you line this burst up with deep breath and fossilize they can roll out of it for sure but did you’re busting correctly that’s exactly the moment you line up your burst correctly and leap

Leap simply does no damage to meta builds so it's irrelevant. Corossive has been used for all the testing. Keep in mind this was meant to put pure dk on par with subclassed builds, which it's not doing, it's still severely left behind and FoO would let dk come much closer with more reliable burst.

I agree to a point I’ve mained dk for a long time and the build I have still hits most players for 9k leaps bsw pyre balorg I can take most people currently running meta out but I do think that’s experience on my part and I still run a pure build I was theory crafting last night and I do think there’s potential for big burst with these changes but again I still think the burst potential is far below what we are seeing currently and shalks merciless resolve(hugely overtuned) and down breaker is still a ruthless combo that pureclass dks just won’t touch, a lot of these builds are easily hitting 6-7k weapon damage and well over crit cap which I think is where these ridiculous numbers are coming from
But that’s a subclassing issue I think dk is in a good spot the real biggest change i could see being impactful is too adjust subclassing so you can only sub class one other skill line in, that would really put everyone back on par I believe

Wup_sa · January 15

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

On live FoO is a great spammable that allows you to gain seething fury stacks very reliably and sustain friendly. On pts this was changed to a totally useless ability that now works closesly to what core of the flame does (Inhale). I think it would be the best option to revert FoO changes and keep it as a spammable for those who enjoy molten whip playstyle.

making fury stacks of every dk ability doesn't solve the issue, since the average cost of a dk ability is between 3500 - 4000 mag. DOTs are obviosly cheaper but it's a DOT, a skill that is meant to run for the whole duration and not casted every second. if you wish to keep the new Incinerate (Flames of oblivion) please put it to the cautherize morph that barely anyone uses and let the FoO stay as it currently is on live.
If FoO becomes an AoE DOT it will especially hurt dks viability in PvP. I have now been PvPing with Lash and Molten whip and Lash is currently overperforming in terms of tankyness, sustain, healing and damage compared to molten whip.

Lash Build: Jeralls, Malacath, Rally and Elf bane
Molten build: Bloodspawn, Sea-serpent, Rally, Pyre brand

Another big reason to the underperfomance of molten whip is the nerf of petrify. There are addons that tell you to dodge/block/etc which makes already the obvious visual it gives far easier to counter. The stun should remain unblockable and undodgeable, but the 1 second delay is fine.

Think you’re right to say this should remain as is but potentially with a significant cost increase, I’d like to point out that if you line this burst up with deep breath and fossilize they can roll out of it for sure but did you’re busting correctly that’s exactly the moment you line up your burst correctly and leap

Leap simply does no damage to meta builds so it's irrelevant. Corossive has been used for all the testing. Keep in mind this was meant to put pure dk on par with subclassed builds, which it's not doing, it's still severely left behind and FoO would let dk come much closer with more reliable burst.

I agree to a point I’ve mained dk for a long time and the build I have still hits most players for 9k leaps bsw pyre balorg I can take most people currently running meta out but I do think that’s experience on my part and I still run a pure build I was theory crafting last night and I do think there’s potential for big burst with these changes but again I still think the burst potential is far below what we are seeing currently and shalks merciless resolve(hugely overtuned) and down breaker is still a ruthless combo that pureclass dks just won’t touch, a lot of these builds are easily hitting 6-7k weapon damage and well over crit cap which I think is where these ridiculous numbers are coming from
But that’s a subclassing issue I think dk is in a good spot the real biggest change i could see being impactful is too adjust subclassing so you can only sub class one other skill line in, that would really put everyone back on par I believe

You can go up against meta builds with any pure class and survive easily. I don't subclass and manage to 1vX meta hoppers just fine. But the problem comes when they are good as well. Pure dk will never have enough pressure with these changes to hurt someone sitting in runes with major vitality, even jeralls does nothing with major and minor defile.

The changes that i try to talk about is purely when going against really good players and being able to kill them, instead of just stalemating because you don't have enough pressure. And no slotting relequeen and dueling them in the open isn't an option, because then your whole build is carried by a set.

And you speak of how subclassing is overtuned. Yes it is and has driven half of the player base away, but the devs won't balance subclassing until all class reworks are out, which takes what 3 year? I think it's better to make these busted as well until all the reworks are rolled out and heavily nerfed subclassing with passives like new battleroar not giving full effects when subclassing.