Selling the solution: why the crafting bag and additional storage shouldn’t be paywalled

spartaxoxo · January 14

lillybit wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

But you are talking about your own experience as you always have ESO+, and your little questing excursions.

This topic is discussing the scenerio where you do not have the craft bag and how utterly irritating and unreasonable the experience is, so much so that it pretty much forces you to sub if you do any content that involves looting on a regular basis.

It would be enough to drive some newer players away entirely given they dont have much bag or bank slots and would have to constantly be emptying their inventory of apples and other crap without having a $50 assistant to summon. Or at leave a bad impression on how it feels to play.

My little questing excursions as they were referred to aren't all I do. I do dungeons too and a trial here and there. But regardless of what I've done I still clear my bags at the end of every day and only store the few good items I find, and deconstruct and sell what I don't need.

The craft bag is very helpful to me because I do craft, and I get crafting mats mailed to me each day, and selling my mats is my biggest source of income. So I pay a sub to have it. It should not be diminished in value by creating a free version of it.

The value is in the craft bag, not the 15$ a month you pay for it…. Sheesh

How is this hard to fathom, you are forced to pay real money for quality of life in a video game. If it was free, the value of the craft bag would still be just that, the value of having a craft bag.

That's the thing tho isn't it? You're paying for quality of life. Just convenience.

If they made it base game, they would need to replace it with something equally indispensable. If not QoL how do you really think that would go?

Sub now for +10% damage in combat!
Sub for access to exclusive perfected weapons not available in game!
You can now wear up to 4 rings, you just need to sub to unlock them!

No thank you, I'll stick with QoL.

Sub now for extra goodies from the battle pass

You're kinda making my point for me, because that's more or less coming and isn't indispensable.

If they give everyone a craft bag they will add something else everyone needs.

If not convenience it'll be p2w

No. They won't necessarily. They're obviously very slowly shifting towards one of the most lucrative types of games on the market and genre.

The power and content are free. The cosmetics are plentiful and expensive. Alongside convenience boosters that don't drastically alter gameplay but help bring in a little extra like double exp for being subbed.

Look at Overwatch for example. They actually started making more money when they stopped selling heroes and started selling collab skins for them to wear instead.

When people actually have fun playing your game they will spend huge on cosmetics.

AScarlato · January 14

Melivar wrote: »

Think about it if you're not helping to pay to support the game how important do you think your opinions really matter.

I have spent an insane amount on this game, probably more than most - and this system still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree this has made them so much money, this probably will never change. But as the game becomes less and less populated, and less and less content is being released, I still want to voice my opinion on the matter as it would be great to encourage more people to return or try ESO and not leave feeling annoyed by their experience.

spartaxoxo · January 14

AScarlato wrote: »

Melivar wrote: »

Think about it if you're not helping to pay to support the game how important do you think your opinions really matter.

I have spent an insane amount on this game, probably more than most - and this system still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree this has made them so much money, this probably will never change. But as the game becomes less and less populated, and less and less content is being released, I still want to voice my opinion on the matter as it would be great to encourage more people to return or try ESO and not leave feeling annoyed by their experience.

At this point I actually think it would be a good idea sometime in the near future to double down on the battle pass and for cash cosmetics like that 4.99 house. Perhaps after the class refresh is finished they should switch the game to f2p, put an ESO+ tier into the battle pass, and come up with some new, less frustrating perks for subbing.

SilverBride · January 14

Cooperharley wrote: »

Aight, I'm all for everyone having their own opinions, but saying "inventory management is not a game created problem" is just objectively wrong. The game has TONS of materials that you pick up passively over time. That is the game presenting you with tons of materials. It creates friction and drives you towards ESO+. Why have ESO+ and the craft bag if your bank and chests are not even close to full?

The game gives players ways to deal with inventory. Deconstruct (which adds gear sets to the stickerbook), sell to a merchant, sell on a guild trader. And now we can stack and sell things we couldn't before.

I am a minimalist and I hate having extra things lying around that have no use to me. That is how my bank and chests aren't even close to full. So why do I sub?

I keep crafting materials because I sell the gold and purple ones on our trader. And I do daily writs, and master writs and sell some master writs. I also do housing and craft a lot of furnishings so I need a lot of these supplies.

I also use the extra housing slots, and the free paintings and statuettes we get, and the crowns that I use for small items to decorate with.

Subscribing is more than just the craft bag to me.

Pauwin · January 14

I'd rather pay full price for an expansion full of content, even twice a year, than a subscription for just convenience, forced through frustration

AzuraFan · January 14

I bought a second account on sale once. It didn't have ESO+, and I found it painful to play. I like harvesting and crafting, and it was a miserable experience. I can see why a new player would quickly get frustrated and quit.

Having said that, if ZOS gave the craft bag away for free, I'd cancel my ESO+ sub on my main account. The other perks are nice, but the main advantage for me is the craft bag. I'm not into housing, I don't care about the XP boost, the crowns (which are nice, but if I dropped my sub I could just buy them if I wanted to), or much else in the sub. I might miss the extra bank slots, but if I were forced to, I could deal with that.

I suspect I wouldn't the only one to cancel my sub.

If they were to give the craft bag for free, they would have to add something to ESO+ that people want just as much. Not something like cosmetics and other fluff. Something that really makes a difference to the gaming experience. The craft bag does that, otherwise there wouldn't be people constantly wanting it for free.

What would that thing be? If someone comes up with a great idea that meets the criteria, I would support giving the craft bag away for free.

So, those of you who want the craft bag for free. What would you add to ESO+ to replace it that would affect the gaming experience in a significant way?

And if you come up with an idea, what would prevent you from asking for that thing for free?

AScarlato · January 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

I bought a second account on sale once. It didn't have ESO+, and I found it painful to play. I like harvesting and crafting, and it was a miserable experience. I can see why a new player would quickly get frustrated and quit.

Having said that, if ZOS gave the craft bag away for free, I'd cancel my ESO+ sub on my main account. The other perks are nice, but the main advantage for me is the craft bag. I'm not into housing, I don't care about the XP boost, the crowns (which are nice, but if I dropped my sub I could just buy them if I wanted to), or much else in the sub. I might miss the extra bank slots, but if I were forced to, I could deal with that.

I suspect I wouldn't the only one to cancel my sub.

If they were to give the craft bag for free, they would have to add something to ESO+ that people want just as much. Not something like cosmetics and other fluff. Something that really makes a difference to the gaming experience. The craft bag does that, otherwise there wouldn't be people constantly wanting it for free.

What would that thing be? If someone comes up with a great idea that meets the criteria, I would support giving the craft bag away for free.

So, those of you who want the craft bag for free. What would you add to ESO+ to replace it that would affect the gaming experience in a significant way?

And if you come up with an idea, what would prevent you from asking for that thing for free?

There probably is not a suggestion that would compare to needing to correct the irritation caused by the game design around the craft bag. That doesn't mean the craft bag being a sub-only feature is a positive thing from a customer's perspective.

For their bank account, of course it was. They made bank. But at some point practices like this catches up to a company, as can be seen by dwindling player numbers.

AzuraFan · January 14

AScarlato wrote: »

For their bank account, of course it was. They made bank. But at some point practices like this catches up to a company, as can be seen by dwindling player numbers.

Of course it's for their bank account. ZOS is a business.

I doubt players are leaving due to not having access to the craft bag. I've seen a lot of "I left because..." and "I hardly play anymore..." threads over the past few years. I've yet to see someone post they're leaving because they don't have the craft bag.

Having said that, I'm sure some new players who've tried the game have left because of frustration with inventory. However, I'm also sure that some new players have subbed to ESO+ to avoid the frustration. Like it or not, the craft bag is functioning as designed. ZOS is a business, not a charity. If someone is frustrated with inventory, they can deal with it by subscribing. If they don't want to pay to ease the frustration, that's their decision.

spartaxoxo · January 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

For their bank account, of course it was. They made bank. But at some point practices like this catches up to a company, as can be seen by dwindling player numbers.

Of course it's for their bank account. ZOS is a business.

I doubt players are leaving due to not having access to the craft bag. I've seen a lot of "I left because..." and "I hardly play anymore..." threads over the past few years. I've yet to see someone post they're leaving because they don't have the craft bag.

Having said that, I'm sure some new players who've tried the game have left because of frustration with inventory. However, I'm also sure that some new players have subbed to ESO+ to avoid the frustration. Like it or not, the craft bag is functioning as designed. ZOS is a business, not a charity. If someone is frustrated with inventory, they can deal with it by subscribing. If they don't want to pay to ease the frustration, that's their decision.

Literally the first negative review when I clicked on steam reviews was someone complaining about the inventory management and craft bag.

AzuraFan · January 14

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Literally the first negative review when I clicked on steam reviews was someone complaining about the inventory management and craft bag.

Yeah, like I said, I'm sure some new players didn't stick around because of the craft bag. And not everyone posts on forums or says they're leaving. So yes, of course, some people have left because of the craft bag.

But the population isn't bleeding because of the craft bag. It's bleeding because of the last few years, when many, many threads and players have talked about the bad decisions. It's dropping because of AwA, U35, dropping the story DLC, the underwhelming 2025 content pass, along with the bugs and the disastrous event, etc.

To me, the people who complain about the craft bag being part of the sub just don't want to pay for the sub. It's not as if they can't have it. They just don't want to pay for it, and then they complain about the inconvenience and insist ZOS should give it to them for free.

It's like someone who works at a place 10 miles away. They can walk those 10 miles and back every day for free, or they can pay to take a bus. Instead of paying, they walk, and then incessantly complain about how inconvenient and unfair it is, and how the city should let them ride the bus for free.

Like I said in a previous post, if someone can come up with an idea that can replace the craft bag AND explain why they won't want that thing for free, I'm all ears. Otherwise ZOS has to make money. Especially now that they're giving all content away for free. It would be a really bad time to have a massive number of people cancel ESO+.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 14

Pretty sure we just read the same reviews. Top of the page, barely even looked for them. Just sorted by most helpful/latest.

Not Recommended
1,067.6 hrs on record
POSTED: DECEMBER 27, 2025
If you do not pay for the subscription, there is no point in playing the game. You get virtually zero inventory space without a subscription and that is one of the lowest most pathetic disgusting tactics these gross devs use. Bethesda does this with ESO and Fallout 76.

Besides it just being a straight predatory tactic, it also makes it extremely hard to get back into the game as you loose all your stuff because your inventory is full unless you pay for a subscription again. It kills any momentum the game could have, and discourages everyone from playing the game.

And this is not some reality that MMOs have. The people that makes these games sat down and brain stormed how to take more money from players, and came up with the idea to make the game unbearable to play long term by making the inventory space so small you realistically cannot ever get to end game unless you pay them for subscription benefits.

Gross tactics that make games less fun in order to force people to pay to make it the base level fun it should be, is unacceptable in my opinion. I played the alpha, I purchased the game on Xbox when it first released, I purchased the game again on steam when I switched to PC. I have paid for the subscription and after giving them 100s and 100s of dollars, I literally cannot continue my game unless I give them more money or lose the vast majority of everything I have.

317 people found this review helpful
10 people found this review funny

and another

Not Recommended
0.0 hrs last two weeks / 124.9 hrs on record (90.1 hrs at review time)
Posted: Feb 19, 2025 @ 8:22am

"No game subscription required." Unless you want to do even a minimum of crafting. It's kind of insane that such a basic feature is locked behind a subscription - it's not like the game is free-to-play. If you can practice extraordinary meticulousness with your looting and inventory management, and have no desire whatsoever to do any crafting, you can get by without it. But your inventory and bank space can fill up real quick.

Mount speed not being account-wide is awful. No big deal right? Just visit a stable master once a day right? Except each time you visit you can upgrade only one of three stats, and they improve by a meager 1 point each time. Why? I think I know why - because you can buy a pack of 10 "Riding Lessons" on the Crown Store for 1,000 crowns (roughly $10). 18,000 crowns (over $120) to fully max out your riding skills FOR A SINGLE CHARACTER this way.

Oh, and don't you worry. Albeit optional, ESO's got loot crates too! Let's review the financial model:
* Buy the game
* Subscription required to not be hamstringed
* Pay for convenience due to outrageous decisions like locking riding skills to a single character
* Loot crates.

Enough about the unabashed greed on display. The game itself seems to have a healthy population, I never had to wait in a queue for a dungeon or trial terribly long. Quests are unique, the story is... OK. Some dungeons are also pretty unique. Each zone has it's own character but the art design kind of results in them feeling a bit samey, with some exceptions of course. A lot of them have a sense of drabness that I can't quite put my finger on.

Combat is bad. Really bad. Floaty, impactless. Popular meta involves exploiting what I can only imagine was an unintentional flaw in design - animation canceling. Fortunately there are builds (that are also meta but much more niche) that can forgo this exploitation.

When I first started I was really thrown off by my starting stats. Why were they in the thousands already, I'm level 1? Why is my damage in the thousands? It's level-scaling. This has one huge positive - you can go almost anywhere and attempt to tackle almost any content you want. But it has a gigantic negative - character progression feels extremely stagnant.

I tried several classes and while I didn't max them out, they all felt kind of samey. Any class can wear any armor, can wield any weapon. Due to the limited nature of the skill bar, all classes have relatively simplistic skill/spell rotations, with none of them feeling truly unique. I also hate the Champion Points system. The improvement afforded with a single Champion Point is miniscule. You'll feel nearly no difference until you accumulate a significant amount of them. Fortunately they are account-wide, although I can easily imagine a future where you can buy "Champion Point Packs" on the Crown Store.
515 people found this review helpful
13 people found this review funny

AScarlato · January 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

For their bank account, of course it was. They made bank. But at some point practices like this catches up to a company, as can be seen by dwindling player numbers.

Of course it's for their bank account. ZOS is a business.

I doubt players are leaving due to not having access to the craft bag. I've seen a lot of "I left because..." and "I hardly play anymore..." threads over the past few years. I've yet to see someone post they're leaving because they don't have the craft bag.

Having said that, I'm sure some new players who've tried the game have left because of frustration with inventory. However, I'm also sure that some new players have subbed to ESO+ to avoid the frustration. Like it or not, the craft bag is functioning as designed. ZOS is a business, not a charity. If someone is frustrated with inventory, they can deal with it by subscribing. If they don't want to pay to ease the frustration, that's their decision.

As I said before, I run a business. I know it's not a charity. I know it needs profit to stay running.

Just because a practice works and generates money doesn't make it a good thing in the long run. Corporations are greedy and we don't have to celebrate things like lootboxes because it lines the wallets of Microsoft.

Goodwill has value. When a game makes me happy, I give it money. Every season I have fun with in Diablo 4, I buy a cosmetic. I have paid subs to MMOs since 1999.

The difference in how I feel now is that in the past, I was happy to do so as the game was developing content I wanted to experience. I have seen ESO decrease content for several years now, while charging the same for the sub. Content wise, this year is the most anemic I've ever seen.

I cared less about paying a sub when ESO made me happy and I had things to look forward to. A vague Theives Guild or Sheo story this year does not make me feel that way. No one I play with feels like logging in most of the time, and the upcoming year is not going to change that. If anything this will get worse.

I always found the craft bag situation annoying, but now in the grand scheme of the game it's gotten to the point where it has no value and I cancelled my sub as there isn't really anything for me to do in the game now at all and there won't be all that much in all of 2026.

People on the fence about stopping by ESO this year but then remembering their bank will be overflowing and they can't loot anything are just going to continue to sit this game out.

Monte_Cristo · January 14

A solution to the excessive number of crafting materials I'd like to see is instead of a new style mat for each style, styles could use different combinations of 2 or 3 style mats. For example, Ancestral Reach could combine molybdenum and bronze, instead of using etched bronze.

spartaxoxo · January 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Literally the first negative review when I clicked on steam reviews was someone complaining about the inventory management and craft bag.

Yeah, like I said, I'm sure some new players didn't stick around because of the craft bag. And not everyone posts on forums or says they're leaving. So yes, of course, some people have left because of the craft bag.

But the population isn't bleeding because of the craft bag. It's bleeding because of the last few years, when many, many threads and players have talked about the bad decisions. It's dropping because of AwA, U35, dropping the story DLC, the underwhelming 2025 content pass, along with the bugs and the disastrous event, etc.

To me, the people who complain about the craft bag being part of the sub just don't want to pay for the sub. It's not as if they can't have it. They just don't want to pay for it, and then they complain about the inconvenience and insist ZOS should give it to them for free.

It's like someone who works at a place 10 miles away. They can walk those 10 miles and back every day for free, or they can pay to take a bus. Instead of paying, they walk, and then incessantly complain about how inconvenient and unfair it is, and how the city should let them ride the bus for free.

Like I said in a previous post, if someone can come up with an idea that can replace the craft bag AND explain why they won't want that thing for free, I'm all ears. Otherwise ZOS has to make money. Especially now that they're giving all content away for free. It would be a really bad time to have a massive number of people cancel ESO+.

I have been subbed for years now. I pay for subs on a yearly basis and have for a while now.

New players do not quit because of end game concerns like U35.

Any look at the reviews of news players will show why they quit: inventory management, combat (look, feel, difficultly), too complicated to build a character or follow the story, and overly monetized.

Those are the top concerns for new players. Why would a new person with a single character care about AWA? They don't. They care about the stuff that makes the first impression instead.

ArchangelIsraphel · January 14

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

The issue is, everyone should be able to enjoy looting without excessive irritation in my opinion.

It seems you are fine with "game develop irritation and sell a solution." I'm not. I still buy ESO+ because otherwise I just would skip ESO and never play this game. I'm sure many have made that decision already and aren't even here to talk about it.

The game didn't create an irritation. The game offers ways to deconstruct and sell unwanted and unneeded items instead of storing them. The stickerbook was a huge help with inventory management. But the player needs to actively purge these unneeded items.

The development process is certainly responsible. Blaming the player for issues that are baked into the design of nessicary systems is really quite unfair.

Manufacturing issues then selling the solution is one of the longest standing marketing tactics in gaming development. The crafting system in ESO was clearly designed in a way that deliberately makes ESO+ more convenient.

It's the same concept as telling people who go to a Renaissance faire that they can't bring outside food or water in so that you can sell them $5 bottles of water. (That's not even hyperbole. I've seen it.) Create the problem, sell the solution.

Even when you're really good at inventory management, playing this game on a bare bones account is rough. Lots of time spent micro managing. And for newer players that have no clue as to what they need and what they don't, I imagine it's even worse.

I definitely do not think people are understanding how much gear and mats players need to store to be functional certain activities, and that its not about hoarding. Especially when you PVP and PVE.

AzuraFan · January 14

AScarlato wrote: »

The difference in how I feel now is that in the past, I was happy to do so as the game was developing content I wanted to experience. I have seen ESO decrease content for several years now, while charging the same for the sub. Content wise, this year is the most anemic I've ever seen.

I cared less about paying a sub when ESO made me happy and I had things to look forward to. A vague Theives Guild or Sheo story this year does not make me feel that way. No one I play with feels like logging in most of the time, and the upcoming year is not going to change that. If anything this will get worse.

I always found the craft bag situation annoying, but now in the grand scheme of the game it's gotten to the point where it has no value and I cancelled my sub as there isn't really anything for me to do in the game now at all and there won't be all that much in all of 2026.

That I understand. I agree that ESO+ has lost value. For me, the premium tome thing doesn't compensate for them giving away all the content for free, meaning that there's no more new DLC under the sub. Throwing in a few cosmetics instead, which you only get after being subbed for 12 months and have to work for via the premium+ tome, doesn't make up for that.

Also, if someone isn't playing the game much, there isn't a reason to stay subbed. If I wasn't playing much or was taking a break, I'd cancel.

But those are different issues to the craft bag. I don't like the way parts of the game are designed to make the craft bag so desirable, but I understand why they did it that way. So my choices are to hold my nose and sub anyway, put up with the inconvenience of inventory management, or quit. Those choices probably won't change anytime soon.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

New players do not quit because of end game concerns like U35.

Any look at the reviews of news players will show why they quit: inventory management, combat (look, feel, difficultly), too complicated to build a character or follow the story, and overly monetized.

Those are the top concerns for new players. Why would a new person with a single character care about AWA? They don't. They care about the stuff that makes the first impression instead.

I agree, and I've already said that I'm sure some new players quit because of inventory management. When I referenced U35 and such, I'm talking about longer-term players who have quit. New players who play for a short time and quit aren't part of the population bleed. They weren't really a part of the population to begin with.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 14

AScarlato wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

For their bank account, of course it was. They made bank. But at some point practices like this catches up to a company, as can be seen by dwindling player numbers.

Of course it's for their bank account. ZOS is a business.

I doubt players are leaving due to not having access to the craft bag. I've seen a lot of "I left because..." and "I hardly play anymore..." threads over the past few years. I've yet to see someone post they're leaving because they don't have the craft bag.

Having said that, I'm sure some new players who've tried the game have left because of frustration with inventory. However, I'm also sure that some new players have subbed to ESO+ to avoid the frustration. Like it or not, the craft bag is functioning as designed. ZOS is a business, not a charity. If someone is frustrated with inventory, they can deal with it by subscribing. If they don't want to pay to ease the frustration, that's their decision.

As I said before, I run a business. I know it's not a charity. I know it needs profit to stay running.

Just because a practice works and generates money doesn't make it a good thing in the long run. Corporations are greedy and we don't have to celebrate things like lootboxes because it lines the wallets of Microsoft.

Goodwill has value. When a game makes me happy, I give it money. Every season I have fun with in Diablo 4, I buy a cosmetic. I have paid subs to MMOs since 1999.

The difference in how I feel now is that in the past, I was happy to do so as the game was developing content I wanted to experience. I have seen ESO decrease content for several years now, while charging the same for the sub. Content wise, this year is the most anemic I've ever seen.

I cared less about paying a sub when ESO made me happy and I had things to look forward to. A vague Theives Guild or Sheo story this year does not make me feel that way. No one I play with feels like logging in most of the time, and the upcoming year is not going to change that. If anything this will get worse.

I always found the craft bag situation annoying, but now in the grand scheme of the game it's gotten to the point where it has no value and I cancelled my sub as there isn't really anything for me to do in the game now at all and there won't be all that much in all of 2026.

People on the fence about stopping by ESO this year but then remembering their bank will be overflowing and they can't loot anything are just going to continue to sit this game out.

100% agreed. I also think you can make the argument that there's a pricing delta where monetizing more heavily equals worse financials. Player owned housing for example. Lower the houses, you'll probably net more at $25 a pop versus the $100 they are now.

Speaking as someone that buys hundreds of dollars in Warframe platinum, not because I need it, but because I treat it as a donation to a truly free2play game that doesn't hassle me for money.

Same for Path of Exile. I bought a $480 supporter pack because I like Grinding Gear Games as a company.

Same for Standing Stone Games who run The Lord of the Rings Online. I buy their supporter packs even though I am a lifetime subscriber to their game. I literally get every single thing in their game for free and I still decide to give them my money.

Warranted or not, The Elder Scrolls Online is known within the MMORPG community as the game with clunky combat, LA weaving and animation cancelling, zero questing difficulty and egregious monetization. It will take years to rectify that sentiment, if ever. Financially worth it? Is anyone laughing their way to the bank? No idea, but I typically don't concern myself with a company's finances beyond a general concern of whether or not they can continue existing, and I believe they would regardless of a crafting bag or not.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 14

Instead of asking for a free crafting bag I'd be advocating for a rework to condense crafting materials and ease the burden on non-ESO+ players if I believed ZOS had the capacity to handle it in a timely fashion, but they lost the benefit of the doubt from me when it took ten years to get overland difficulty.

Orbital78 · January 14

They could increase stack sizes and other things, but this is all by design. I have just stopped doing daily writs for the most part and just sell more things to the vendor for straight gold. It isn't impossible to play without the craft bag, but it also isn't fun having to deal with inventory management. At least console have access to the addons now too, I don't know how they got by without them before.

SilverBride · January 14

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Manufacturing issues then selling the solution is one of the longest standing marketing tactics in gaming development. The crafting system in ESO was clearly designed in a way that deliberately makes ESO+ more convenient.

ESO+ wasn't a thing until 2015 after the mandatory sub was removed. It gave players options to play for free, or to get valuable perks for still subscribing. Crafting was already established before this ever happened.

Players can choose to subscribe or not, but the ESO+ perks should remain as they are.

SneaK · January 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

For their bank account, of course it was. They made bank. But at some point practices like this catches up to a company, as can be seen by dwindling player numbers.

Of course it's for their bank account. ZOS is a business.

I doubt players are leaving due to not having access to the craft bag. I've seen a lot of "I left because..." and "I hardly play anymore..." threads over the past few years. I've yet to see someone post they're leaving because they don't have the craft bag.

Having said that, I'm sure some new players who've tried the game have left because of frustration with inventory. However, I'm also sure that some new players have subbed to ESO+ to avoid the frustration. Like it or not, the craft bag is functioning as designed. ZOS is a business, not a charity. If someone is frustrated with inventory, they can deal with it by subscribing. If they don't want to pay to ease the frustration, that's their decision.

No matter how you spin it, the inventory IS A BARRIER, and ZOS has monetized a problem they designed to exist. In my case, I’m not a new player, but I have periodically taken long breaks. Most recently I came back from a 4+ year break, my number one issue was my inventory. I was gone during hybridization, subclassing, etc, and my number one complaint was inventory. That is a problem.

I literally couldn’t transfer gear from player to player, even after I crafted stuff for them. I had to sub just to get stuff together and get up to par with the game.

*and it really shouldn’t be our jobs to come up with an ethical monetary solution for ZOS to replace the terrible format they’ve sold us for all these years.

Cooperharley · January 14

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Aight, I'm all for everyone having their own opinions, but saying "inventory management is not a game created problem" is just objectively wrong. The game has TONS of materials that you pick up passively over time. That is the game presenting you with tons of materials. It creates friction and drives you towards ESO+. Why have ESO+ and the craft bag if your bank and chests are not even close to full?

The game gives players ways to deal with inventory. Deconstruct (which adds gear sets to the stickerbook), sell to a merchant, sell on a guild trader. And now we can stack and sell things we couldn't before.

I am a minimalist and I hate having extra things lying around that have no use to me. That is how my bank and chests aren't even close to full. So why do I sub?

I keep crafting materials because I sell the gold and purple ones on our trader. And I do daily writs, and master writs and sell some master writs. I also do housing and craft a lot of furnishings so I need a lot of these supplies.

I also use the extra housing slots, and the free paintings and statuettes we get, and the crowns that I use for small items to decorate with.

Subscribing is more than just the craft bag to me.

So you'd be cool with not having the crafting bag then? Because you can just sell things you don't need right?

No, the game has created a number of systems, including crafting and housing, that in and of themselves have a TON of supplies that would very quickly overwhelm your bank. Saying "you can just sell or decon" everything is irrelevant. The fact is that there are so many materials in this game regardless of the fact that you can sell it or not. Might as well not have a bank or much inventory space at all since you can just decon or sell everything right?

Every game and definitely every MMO creates inventory issues, especially the longer that they're around. They all have unique ways to handle it and ESO sells a subscription as the solution to that (crafting bag) versus how GW2 does it for instance. That's the discussion. To say it's not a game issue is just frankly incorrect, regardless of your feelings of the subscription.

SilverBride · January 14

Cooperharley wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am a minimalist and I hate having extra things lying around that have no use to me. That is how my bank and chests aren't even close to full. So why do I sub?

I keep crafting materials because I sell the gold and purple ones on our trader. And I do daily writs, and master writs and sell some master writs. I also do housing and craft a lot of furnishings so I need a lot of these supplies.

I also use the extra housing slots, and the free paintings and statuettes we get, and the crowns that I use for small items to decorate with.

Subscribing is more than just the craft bag to me.

So you'd be cool with not having the crafting bag then? Because you can just sell things you don't need right?

No. I said "I keep crafting materials because I sell the gold and purple ones on our trader. And I do daily writs, and master writs and sell some master writs. I also do housing and craft a lot of furnishings so I need a lot of these supplies." I absolutely do use the crafting bag that I pay for.

ArchangelIsraphel · January 14

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Manufacturing issues then selling the solution is one of the longest standing marketing tactics in gaming development. The crafting system in ESO was clearly designed in a way that deliberately makes ESO+ more convenient.

ESO+ wasn't a thing until 2015 after the mandatory sub was removed. It gave players options to play for free, or to get valuable perks for still subscribing. Crafting was already established before this ever happened.

Players can choose to subscribe or not, but the ESO+ perks should remain as they are.

Is there really such a thing as playing ESO for free, since you have to purchase the game to have access to it at all? Unless you happen upon a free copy of the base game, no one is really playing for free. I've never thought of other players as "free to play", when they paid for the same base game and expansions as I did.

The fact that the crafting system was designed before the ESO+ subscription model does not absolve the company of creating the problem they are selling the solution to, nor does it make that issue the players fault. They could have altered the system. They didn't. It is meant to be monetized by design, because they chose to continue down this path.

My issue isn't with the existence of the subscription, since I pay for it. My issue lies in the habit of placing blame on players for a system that makes the game uncomfortable to play without it. Players can only purge so much before throwing things out just becomes unreasonable. My alt account was relegated to being a marketing storage mule for my main for a reason. Inventory management is just too clunky if you want to play multiple forms of content.

While I like what the sub offers me, I do think player retention almost requires looking into inventory management for non-subscribers (I will not call them free to play. They are not free to play.) Playing the game on an alt account with no perks really opens your eyes to remembering how miserable inventory management for non-subs actually is in ESO.

SilverBride · January 14

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Is there really such a thing as playing ESO for free, since you have to purchase the game to have access to it at all? Unless you happen upon a free copy of the base game, no one is really playing for free. I've never thought of other players as "free to play", when they paid for the same base game and expansions as I did.

We purchase the game but can then access their servers and play on them for no monthly fee. That is what is meant by "free to play".

ArchangelIsraphel · 12:03AM

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Is there really such a thing as playing ESO for free, since you have to purchase the game to have access to it at all? Unless you happen upon a free copy of the base game, no one is really playing for free. I've never thought of other players as "free to play", when they paid for the same base game and expansions as I did.

We purchase the game but can then access their servers and play on them for no monthly fee. That is what is meant by "free to play".

I mean, to even access those servers, there's an initial fee in the form of buying the base game. So it's not free to play. It's buy for access.

AScarlato · 12:07AM

Somewhere in Tamriel, a woman sits on a park bench, her collection of luxurious handbags with pockets for 180 or even 200 objects beside her. She neatly places the three items she decided to gather during her latest quest into her bags. Unseen by all was a magic bag that suctions up even more items and organizes them without any effort required at all.

A poor peasant girl, arms filled to the brim with apples, bananas, twigs, pebbles, roots, and torn leather strips falls to the ground before her. Her meager belongings spill out all over the street.

"Ha ha ha! Someone didn't pay their $15!" the woman on the bench proclaims, nose in the air.

Saddened, the poor peasant girl runs out of view, never to be seen in Tamriel again.

Gabriel_H · 12:18AM

Pevey wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

How many times in the past have they boasted about their "millions" of players? These are people who bought the game, signed up, probably never to be heard from again. That is a very large amount of revenue compared to subs from their tiny, loyal player base. How much do you think servers cost?

It also includes players who bought the game, setup a sub, then stopped playing after a year or two - that's still more sub money than Chapter money - especially if the game was bought on sale.

In the modern world revenue needs to be large, consistent, and predictable - that's why they are moving to seasons and free play - it's a hook so they can reel in more subs, more crowns, and a spread chapter cost.

That's really a stretch to assume enough stay and sub for long enough to move the needle on the revenue comparison. I recall Rich casually mentioning on a stream a few years back that most new players (i.e., more than 50%) don't reach level 10. LEVEL 10! (This is paraphrasing from memory... If anyone has a link, would appreciate it)

It's not a stretch - it's literally the business model they just doubled down on. Do you think they can just do that, or do you think they need to present corporate overlords and shareholders with detailed financial plans, backed up by data, so that the doors aren't closed?

wolfie1.0. · 12:21AM

I would like to point out that ESO is the ONLY game In the elderscrolls line up that doesnt have encumbrance or weight to items.

Orbital78 · 12:28AM

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I would like to point out that ESO is the ONLY game In the elderscrolls line up that doesnt have encumbrance or weight to items.

Imagine if that armory of sets that tanks and healers carry had weight.

There is a fairly large difference between solo and multiplayer games too. Encumbrance was kind of a legacy thing, I don't think many MMO's have had that since the need/greed days and when it took months to get a level. Some things died off for a reason.