It doesn't have to be all or nothing in regards to pain points.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 13

I was pretty disappointed to see @ZOS_GinaBruno comment in the Cyrodiil healing thread about walking back the change.

Yes, it's true that for random balance adjustments (e.g., the Jabs change, the removal of Stalking Blastbones, etc.), it would have been nice for the team to drop the changes completely in PTS and try a different approach the following PTS cycle.

But when it comes to pain points that people have been requesting an adjustment to for years, I don't believe that completely walking back the change to leave the problem unaddressed for another third of the year is the right move.

HoT stacking has been an issue for years. No, the proposed change isn't perfect, but instead of completely walking it back, why not adjust the numbers a bit for this PTS cycle, AND ALSO re-approach the change next PTS cycle? It doesn't have to be all or nothing. The meta in Cyrodiil has been so stagnant, that even an overtuned nerf would be preferable to leaving it as is, since at the very least, the meta would change up a bit.

This change is also unique in that we can't really test it on PTS large scale. Why not adjust the severity of the nerf for this PTS cycle, see how it plays out in Cyrodiil on live, then try a different approach next PTS cycle with the information you learned from how the change played out?

I don't think the adjustment to healing was a perfect change - but for the first time in over half a decade, the team did something to address the issue, and that can only be a good thing.

I think this can be applied to other pain points as well. For changes that are out of the blue (again referencing things like Jabs or Stalking Blastbones), it's okay to scrap it and go back to the drawing board. But for things like this, that have been requested for years, why not do both? Implement a stop-gap change, even if it isn't perfect, and re-visit it later.

heimdall14_9 · January 13

id like to see them adjust the healing debuff from 50% to around 15-20% and go from there next PTS up or down depending on the findings BIG SCALE

this would help both my pain points
1) can the servers handle tracking both # of hot's and 50% debuff without desync
2) 50% debuff being to much if needed at all after limiting # of hots one can have

Sluggy · January 13

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

id like to see them adjust the healing debuff from 50% to around 15-20% and go from there next PTS up or down depending on the findings BIG SCALE

The scaling is irrelevant here. The design is fundamentally flawed from a gameplay and mechanics standpoint.

That being said, I still agree that other options should be investigated ASAP. We've all said it. Stacking is the problem. Why is that the one thing they don't even want to consider?

YandereGirlfriend · January 13

A half-baked and/or bad change is definitely NOT better than no change so big disagree with the thesis of this post.

Also a big no to piling even more work on the server in terms of bookkeeping for all of these overly complicated "solutions". When you are digging a hole, as we are with game performance due to out-of-control complexity from abilities, the first step is to stop digging. The damage and healing formulas are already too long and now we're trying to tack-on even more terms and coefficients.

Cap each sticky HOT morph at 1 instance per player like they used to. Bring them into conformance with the rest of the game's systems. Everything else is overthinking it as well as unhelpful for performance.

The_Meathead · January 13

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Cap each sticky HOT morph at 1 instance per player like they used to. Bring them into conformance with the rest of the game's systems. Everything else is overthinking it as well as unhelpful for performance.

Do this AND limit Shields significantly.

Just changing HoTs but leaving Shields untouched would have a very predictable result.

heimdall14_9 · January 13

Sluggy wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

id like to see them adjust the healing debuff from 50% to around 15-20% and go from there next PTS up or down depending on the findings BIG SCALE

The scaling is irrelevant here. The design is fundamentally flawed from a gameplay and mechanics standpoint.

That being said, I still agree that other options should be investigated ASAP. We've all said it. Stacking is the problem. Why is that the one thing they don't even want to consider?

my true view point would be this ________Cap each sticky HOT morph at 1 instance per player like they used to. Bring them into conformance with the rest of the game's systems. Everything else is overthinking it as well as unhelpful for performance.

but i was trying to help the DEV TEAM understand ADJUSTMENTS aint BAD no need to scrap TRYING TO DO SOMETHING even if its not 100% it would give them an understand what way to go , BUT THEY HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE not just trash every idea

rlindsey912nub18_ESO · January 13

I agree cap hots healing absolutely needs to address this year no more putting it off the same broken meta has been going on for years now but unfortunately it’s starting to look like the player base is just as much to blame as the devs

Vaqual · January 14

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

A half-baked and/or bad change is definitely NOT better than no change so big disagree with the thesis of this post.

Also a big no to piling even more work on the server in terms of bookkeeping for all of these overly complicated "solutions". When you are digging a hole, as we are with game performance due to out-of-control complexity from abilities, the first step is to stop digging. The damage and healing formulas are already too long and now we're trying to tack-on even more terms and coefficients.

Cap each sticky HOT morph at 1 instance per player like they used to. Bring them into conformance with the rest of the game's systems. Everything else is overthinking it as well as unhelpful for performance.

I also agree with this. It is good that they pulled this quickly. The game is moving slowly and the most important thing is to spend as little time as possible on negative contributions to the game balance.

ZhuJiuyin · January 14

Why not just release a universal skill that dispels HOTs from enemies within range? For example, add a skill to the Assault line that cancels two healing over time effects on enemies within range. Polymorph could even go further and cancel buffs from enemies. This would counter healing stacking, force opponents to waste more GCDs to reapply buffs, and avoid unnecessary and complex calculations for the server.

Morvan · January 14

I'm on the fence, but I do agree their solution was a bad design choice, a HoT cap like others have mentioned here would be better.

I don't want to live in a world where I need to run from healers so my heals won't be weaker, there are much better ways to address this, if they actually want a healing reduction effect, it would be better if it scales with the amount of people you have around you, not by how many HoTs you have on you.

J18696 · January 14

It was a bad design in the fact it open up the playstyle for purposefully loading people up on heals to grief them that should be a thought in the devs mind going forward can this be used in such a way

MJallday · January 14

just make it so you can only apply 1 HOT

all others cancel the last one out.

simples.

robpr · January 14

MJallday wrote: »

just make it so you can only apply 1 HOT

all others cancel the last one out.

simples.

*replace the last if weaker
then we're talking.

I don't want some John Elderscroller with 1000 wpd/spd running around spamming Echoing cancelling my 6k power Resto ult.

acastanza_ESO · January 14

The problem is that the fundamental nature of the change they made was bad and absolutely needed to be walked back. If it had only cut the healing of HOTs it would've been fine, but that's not what happened. But also we don't need multiple other threads for this while mods are cleaning up the original one.