Cyrodiil Healing Nerf!!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 13

Radiate77 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

Yeah we should have just rolled through with a universal 50% heal reduction on 90% of solo players, but you’d be fine on your Nightblade, right?

Firstly if you're getting HoTs applied to you from allies you're not a solo player your surfing your faction.
Secondly if you play solo (even within the faction) there are actually very few times you get healed let alone have a sticky HoT placed on you aside from Polar wind - most other 'solo' players are using Green Vigor + 1 Burst heal as their only form of healing.

So this argument isn't a good one.
I agree that the solution was poorly implemented but @React is also right

Actually it’s a great one.

Let’s say you’re playing Winter’s Embrace with Polar Wind, and you’re running Blood Craze and Vigor, all three are now 50%.

What if you’re using Restoring Light with Restoring Rune using Structured Entropy and Vigor?

How about Living Death and you have a healing tether up with your own Regeneration and also Vigor…

You do not need to be getting healed by another player to be absolutely destroyed as a solo by this change, and to say otherwise is to spread misinformation.

To lament it is something else entirely. 😂

Healing tether I believe would be considered a ground tether not a HoT (I could be wrong)
but in those incredibly niche examples you would need to adjust your build to a combat change introduced just like any other patch of the game.

Equally I've given examples of how I would have changed the implementation, the issue is the complete 'scrapping' of the idea, everyone agrees the initial implementation wasn't ideal.

Radiate77 · January 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

Yeah we should have just rolled through with a universal 50% heal reduction on 90% of solo players, but you’d be fine on your Nightblade, right?

Firstly if you're getting HoTs applied to you from allies you're not a solo player your surfing your faction.
Secondly if you play solo (even within the faction) there are actually very few times you get healed let alone have a sticky HoT placed on you aside from Polar wind - most other 'solo' players are using Green Vigor + 1 Burst heal as their only form of healing.

So this argument isn't a good one.
I agree that the solution was poorly implemented but @React is also right

Actually it’s a great one.

Let’s say you’re playing Winter’s Embrace with Polar Wind, and you’re running Blood Craze and Vigor, all three are now 50%.

What if you’re using Restoring Light with Restoring Rune using Structured Entropy and Vigor?

How about Living Death and you have a healing tether up with your own Regeneration and also Vigor…

You do not need to be getting healed by another player to be absolutely destroyed as a solo by this change, and to say otherwise is to spread misinformation.

To lament it is something else entirely. 😂

Healing tether I believe would be considered a ground tether not a HoT (I could be wrong)
but in those incredibly niche examples you would need to adjust your build to a combat change introduced just like any other patch of the game.

Equally I've given examples of how I would have changed the implementation, the issue is the complete 'scrapping' of the idea, everyone agrees the initial implementation wasn't ideal.

Personally, I’d rather they wait until there is a better idea to bring to the table than last minute tweak something that could completely redefine how Cyrodiil functions.

Also; want to add, there is nothing niché about using Blood Craze, Structured Entropy, or Regeneration in either of its forms. Or using great defensive skill lines, or using Resolving Vigor as every build in PvP has it slotted.

monkiie · January 13

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

This right here.

We aren't giving feedback just for you to drop the changes completely.

Continue to iterate on the change in next week's PTS. The issue has gone on long enough; a patch with an overtuned nerf is at the very least an interesting meta shift.

Don't just drop the change completely with a promise of future changes. Adjust it slightly for this PTS cycle and then re-visit it over the next PTS cycle.

Woah man take it easy, thats too much of a reasonable opinion. Dont you know this change was being implemented in its current state on march 9th if we didnt pull out our pitchforks and riot. Its called the Public Test Server because its supposed to test changes... I would have like for them to at least try to adjust it over this PTS cycle before delaying it until sometime in the future.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · January 13

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Thank you for the transparency here, and for the clear communication. I’m genuinely glad to hear this version is getting reverted, because in its current form it would have been really unhealthy if it went live.

That said, like many others in the thread, I’m also a bit disappointed to hear there will be no change in the short term. A lot of the suggestions people have posted are pointing in the same direction, and they are clearly trying to find balanced solutions that hit stacked HoTs and shield stacking without killing the playstyle, or punishing small groups and pug healers.

I guess what I don’t understand is why we can’t keep actively iterating toward a fair change, even if it’s incremental. For example, adjusting the conditions, narrowing what counts, and tuning the numbers down from something as extreme as 50%, would already get you closer without creating the griefing and overnerf issues the original proposal had.

Either way, I do appreciate you coming back to the thread with a direct update, and I hope you do share ideas early next time, because that feedback loop clearly helped here.

Teeba_Shei · January 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

Yeah we should have just rolled through with a universal 50% heal reduction on 90% of solo players, but you’d be fine on your Nightblade, right?

Firstly if you're getting HoTs applied to you from allies you're not a solo player your surfing your faction.
Secondly if you play solo (even within the faction) there are actually very few times you get healed let alone have a sticky HoT placed on you aside from Polar wind - most other 'solo' players are using Green Vigor + 1 Burst heal as their only form of healing.

So this argument isn't a good one.
I agree that the solution was poorly implemented but @React is also right

Actually it’s a great one.

Let’s say you’re playing Winter’s Embrace with Polar Wind, and you’re running Blood Craze and Vigor, all three are now 50%.

What if you’re using Restoring Light with Restoring Rune using Structured Entropy and Vigor?

How about Living Death and you have a healing tether up with your own Regeneration and also Vigor…

You do not need to be getting healed by another player to be absolutely destroyed as a solo by this change, and to say otherwise is to spread misinformation.

To lament it is something else entirely. 😂

Healing tether I believe would be considered a ground tether not a HoT (I could be wrong)
but in those incredibly niche examples you would need to adjust your build to a combat change introduced just like any other patch of the game.

Equally I've given examples of how I would have changed the implementation, the issue is the complete 'scrapping' of the idea, everyone agrees the initial implementation wasn't ideal.

I tested healing tether on PTS and it counts as a sticky heal on you the caster, but not on other people being healed by it. Its in the same weird pool of healing abilities like cauterize.

heimdall14_9 · January 13

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

You can’t have a good take when complaining about a reversion to something universally bad.

HoT stacking is only a problem in medium to large scale groups, yet the proposed solution would have hurt solos and duos.

Running either @gariondavey or @YandereGirlfriend’s suggestions could have fixed the problem, or my suggestion which would have your individual healing not taken account or as a temporary fix raising the HoT number to 5 or 6.

If those were the methods taken, yes we could lament the reversion, but to be unhappy that solo and small scale players that use Restoring Light, Living Death, Bone Tyrant, Green Balance, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning, Curative Runeforms, Ardent Flame, Mage’s Guild, Dual Wield, or any Scribing skills with any form of HoT aren’t getting rolled by a change that wouldn’t have even touched ball groups as they have 12 of everything at all times, is silly to say the least.

All it would have taken were 3 active HoTs and all healing would be 50%. Including the 3 HoTs.

I guess when you’ve been playing a class without HoTs for a whole decade, it wouldn’t really bother you too much.

I never said this exact iteration of the change is what should be implemented. Obviously it would hurt solo players but they would just need to tweak it. The patch doesn't come out for another 2 months. Remove cross healing outside of group and/or make the debuff only impact externally applied heals and not self heals. Have you logged into cyrodiil lately? every campaign is a ghost town outside of a 3 hour time window in gray host only and what do you find in those 3 hours? At least half the population of cyrodiil is in a ball group. Its boring to play against because there is no counter. Any change is now delayed to a future update. There are only 4 updates in a year.

removing outside heals would kill solos from ever trying to help defend or take an keep and kill off everyone who plays solo but heals or out right kill solo play by forcing them into an group not an good thing to do as even them that run in groups like playing solo at times

You wouldnt be forced to group up just to defend a keep. If you need to depend on someone else to heal you then you should group up with them then. It would be easier for a solo player in that environment to defend a keep. If they are fighting a zerg that is not grouped, no one can cross heal the person they are attacking. If the zerg IS grouped up, they will most likely have the healing debuff.

1vX in open field v 1vX in keep/outpost two very different things and its not depending on an heal its just common sense to know that you'll be receiving outside heals when trapped in small area's like an keep/outpost that even makes the solo player even WILLING to go and help because otherwise the solo player knows they have an better chance 1vXing in OPEN FIELD then dying inside an keep you have limited room at

At this point I'm not really sure what you're trying to say but its gone so off topic of what my original comments intent was.

you are trying to ask for NO CROSS healing and im saying NO as it will kill the WILLINGNESS of solos to help defend/take an keep as its easier to fight in open field then in an keep and it hurt the players that dont group but heals their alliance kinda like how my 2x empress has done as i dont play in groups ( mainly due to the toxic nature of most groups ) but enjoy helping my alliance ( not just part of it " they green bars, leave them to die" group mentality ) solo

monkiie · January 13

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

You can’t have a good take when complaining about a reversion to something universally bad.

HoT stacking is only a problem in medium to large scale groups, yet the proposed solution would have hurt solos and duos.

Running either @gariondavey or @YandereGirlfriend’s suggestions could have fixed the problem, or my suggestion which would have your individual healing not taken account or as a temporary fix raising the HoT number to 5 or 6.

If those were the methods taken, yes we could lament the reversion, but to be unhappy that solo and small scale players that use Restoring Light, Living Death, Bone Tyrant, Green Balance, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning, Curative Runeforms, Ardent Flame, Mage’s Guild, Dual Wield, or any Scribing skills with any form of HoT aren’t getting rolled by a change that wouldn’t have even touched ball groups as they have 12 of everything at all times, is silly to say the least.

All it would have taken were 3 active HoTs and all healing would be 50%. Including the 3 HoTs.

I guess when you’ve been playing a class without HoTs for a whole decade, it wouldn’t really bother you too much.

I never said this exact iteration of the change is what should be implemented. Obviously it would hurt solo players but they would just need to tweak it. The patch doesn't come out for another 2 months. Remove cross healing outside of group and/or make the debuff only impact externally applied heals and not self heals. Have you logged into cyrodiil lately? every campaign is a ghost town outside of a 3 hour time window in gray host only and what do you find in those 3 hours? At least half the population of cyrodiil is in a ball group. Its boring to play against because there is no counter. Any change is now delayed to a future update. There are only 4 updates in a year.

removing outside heals would kill solos from ever trying to help defend or take an keep and kill off everyone who plays solo but heals or out right kill solo play by forcing them into an group not an good thing to do as even them that run in groups like playing solo at times

You wouldnt be forced to group up just to defend a keep. If you need to depend on someone else to heal you then you should group up with them then. It would be easier for a solo player in that environment to defend a keep. If they are fighting a zerg that is not grouped, no one can cross heal the person they are attacking. If the zerg IS grouped up, they will most likely have the healing debuff.

1vX in open field v 1vX in keep/outpost two very different things and its not depending on an heal its just common sense to know that you'll be receiving outside heals when trapped in small area's like an keep/outpost that even makes the solo player even WILLING to go and help because otherwise the solo player knows they have an better chance 1vXing in OPEN FIELD then dying inside an keep you have limited room at

At this point I'm not really sure what you're trying to say but its gone so off topic of what my original comments intent was.

you are trying to ask for NO CROSS healing and im saying NO as it will kill the WILLINGNESS of solos to help defend/take an keep as its easier to fight in open field then in an keep and it hurt the players that dont group but heals their alliance kinda like how my 2x empress has done as i dont play in groups ( mainly due to the toxic nature of most groups ) but enjoy helping my alliance ( not just part of it " they green bars, leave them to die" group mentality ) solo

If you think no cross healing outside of group will kill soloing, you do not know what soloing is.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 13

@ZOS_Kevin

Just want to add that I know the team is probably getting some mixed signals from past PTS requests ("scrap bad changes before they hit live!!!") and the feedback in this thread since Gina's announcement that this was getting reverted.

I think the important distinction here is whether the change is something that has been requested or not. In the past, changes like the Stalking Blastbones removal or the Jabs change seemingly came out of nowhere; changes like that are much safer to scrap before they hit live.

With something like this, that's been a highly requested hot button topic for years, I think people would much rather seem something be done in the short term rather than nothing, even if it's a stop-gap solution. A change this huge likely needs some live server testing anyways to really understand how it would affect the meta.

Hope that's somewhat useful for the team, because this communication from the team has been so much better than prior cycles and I would hate for the hot and cold messaging of this thread to prevent that communication from continuing.

Radiate77 · January 13

So glad this change is rolled back.

Prax3des · January 13

Wup_sa wrote: »

Prax3des wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Sad to see this change is already in the bin because even though it IS imperfect, and would absolutely need adjusting to avoid HOT trolling and the other logistical issues regular PVPers have raised, it still showed a movement and willingness toward breaking up healstacking and other problems with raids being uncrackable. And any change in that direction is a good one for me, honestly, because it's been too busted for too long.

It is still a terrible way and would kill off pvp even more.

Honestly the best they could do is make hots with same name unable to stack. You cant stack major protection 12 times either so why can you do it with heals?

And I've been around long enough - PVP didn't die when players were literally invisible for three straight weeks at Summerset launch, or during the many weeks of AOE tests, or in the resulting metas where we had no proc sets and no cross-healing outside of group for months. The last one especially relevant in this case, and I would totally go back to that too if it would actually change the stale and unfun gameplay at most hours.

I'd also be more than fine with capping heals to one iteration on a player, and especially how I think it was Arctos who suggested it, making them actual "buffs" in doing so. However I've gotta play guinea pig to get Cyrodiil that isn't Vengeance (which is also stale and unfun, for different reasons) I'm willing to after this many freaking years.

Radiate77 · January 13

@Prax3des PvP died from a lack of new content.

heimdall14_9 · January 13

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

monkiie wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

You can’t have a good take when complaining about a reversion to something universally bad.

HoT stacking is only a problem in medium to large scale groups, yet the proposed solution would have hurt solos and duos.

Running either @gariondavey or @YandereGirlfriend’s suggestions could have fixed the problem, or my suggestion which would have your individual healing not taken account or as a temporary fix raising the HoT number to 5 or 6.

If those were the methods taken, yes we could lament the reversion, but to be unhappy that solo and small scale players that use Restoring Light, Living Death, Bone Tyrant, Green Balance, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning, Curative Runeforms, Ardent Flame, Mage’s Guild, Dual Wield, or any Scribing skills with any form of HoT aren’t getting rolled by a change that wouldn’t have even touched ball groups as they have 12 of everything at all times, is silly to say the least.

All it would have taken were 3 active HoTs and all healing would be 50%. Including the 3 HoTs.

I guess when you’ve been playing a class without HoTs for a whole decade, it wouldn’t really bother you too much.

I never said this exact iteration of the change is what should be implemented. Obviously it would hurt solo players but they would just need to tweak it. The patch doesn't come out for another 2 months. Remove cross healing outside of group and/or make the debuff only impact externally applied heals and not self heals. Have you logged into cyrodiil lately? every campaign is a ghost town outside of a 3 hour time window in gray host only and what do you find in those 3 hours? At least half the population of cyrodiil is in a ball group. Its boring to play against because there is no counter. Any change is now delayed to a future update. There are only 4 updates in a year.

removing outside heals would kill solos from ever trying to help defend or take an keep and kill off everyone who plays solo but heals or out right kill solo play by forcing them into an group not an good thing to do as even them that run in groups like playing solo at times

You wouldnt be forced to group up just to defend a keep. If you need to depend on someone else to heal you then you should group up with them then. It would be easier for a solo player in that environment to defend a keep. If they are fighting a zerg that is not grouped, no one can cross heal the person they are attacking. If the zerg IS grouped up, they will most likely have the healing debuff.

1vX in open field v 1vX in keep/outpost two very different things and its not depending on an heal its just common sense to know that you'll be receiving outside heals when trapped in small area's like an keep/outpost that even makes the solo player even WILLING to go and help because otherwise the solo player knows they have an better chance 1vXing in OPEN FIELD then dying inside an keep you have limited room at

At this point I'm not really sure what you're trying to say but its gone so off topic of what my original comments intent was.

you are trying to ask for NO CROSS healing and im saying NO as it will kill the WILLINGNESS of solos to help defend/take an keep as its easier to fight in open field then in an keep and it hurt the players that dont group but heals their alliance kinda like how my 2x empress has done as i dont play in groups ( mainly due to the toxic nature of most groups ) but enjoy helping my alliance ( not just part of it " they green bars, leave them to die" group mentality ) solo

If you think no cross healing outside of group will kill soloing, you do not know what soloing is.

solo player = playing by themselves
soloing = doing something by yourself

never said SOLOING would get hurt said SOLO PLAYERS would , once you add " ing " you change them meaning of the word

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · January 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

Yeah we should have just rolled through with a universal 50% heal reduction on 90% of solo players, but you’d be fine on your Nightblade, right?

Firstly if you're getting HoTs applied to you from allies you're not a solo player your surfing your faction.
Secondly if you play solo (even within the faction) there are actually very few times you get healed let alone have a sticky HoT placed on you aside from Polar wind - most other 'solo' players are using Green Vigor + 1 Burst heal as their only form of healing.

So this argument isn't a good one.
I agree that the solution was poorly implemented but @React is also right

Actually it’s a great one.

Let’s say you’re playing Winter’s Embrace with Polar Wind, and you’re running Blood Craze and Vigor, all three are now 50%.

What if you’re using Restoring Light with Restoring Rune using Structured Entropy and Vigor?

How about Living Death and you have a healing tether up with your own Regeneration and also Vigor…

You do not need to be getting healed by another player to be absolutely destroyed as a solo by this change, and to say otherwise is to spread misinformation.

To lament it is something else entirely. 😂

Healing tether I believe would be considered a ground tether not a HoT (I could be wrong)
but in those incredibly niche examples you would need to adjust your build to a combat change introduced just like any other patch of the game.

Equally I've given examples of how I would have changed the implementation, the issue is the complete 'scrapping' of the idea, everyone agrees the initial implementation wasn't ideal.

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Healing Tether would count as a “sticky” HoT in the same way the other on player effects do.

Echoing Vigor is a good example of why the label gets confusing. It scales like an AoE HoT (CP, modifiers, etc.), but mechanically it is still an on player HoT that follows you around once applied, so it almost certainly falls under what they mean by “sticky”, even if it is not a single target HoT like Radiating Regen.

Same idea with the 4 second HoT portion on Soul Siphon, it is technically part of an ability that can look AoE in practice, but the HoT portion is still applied to the player and persists on them.

So if Echoing Vigor is “sticky”, then Healing Tether feels like it would be treated the same way, unless ZOS explicitly flags it differently under the hood.

Stridig · January 13

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Ratzkifal · January 13

@ZOS_Kevin I think reverting this change fully is missing the mark as well. Is the current proposal sustainable? No, quite obviously not. But scrapping the whole thing immediately and doing nothing because there is no time left isn't exactly a good option either. We could lower the 50% to just 5-10% and just see what happens. Alternatively upping the threshold that triggers the reduced healing to 5 as some have proposed could also be worth exploring until a better solution is found. We also have modifiers to healing over time and direct healing. Utilizing just the healing over time modifier instead of the current "all healing" is another option to look into.

We don't want to spend another three months dealing with excessive healstacking.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

Yeah we should have just rolled through with a universal 50% heal reduction on 90% of solo players, but you’d be fine on your Nightblade, right?

Firstly if you're getting HoTs applied to you from allies you're not a solo player your surfing your faction.
Secondly if you play solo (even within the faction) there are actually very few times you get healed let alone have a sticky HoT placed on you aside from Polar wind - most other 'solo' players are using Green Vigor + 1 Burst heal as their only form of healing.

So this argument isn't a good one.
I agree that the solution was poorly implemented but @React is also right

All it takes is to have vigor rolling and have something as silly as double health steal poisons trigger.....oops there goes 50% of my healing. It is good that they are spending more time to think through the issue. Although it seems zos doesnt even know what they are trying to target.

Are they trying to target hots?
- all hots?
- Ground hots?
- smart heal hots?
- ground hots that stick?
- single target aimed hots that stick?

Are they trying to target a select group or population abusing these mechanics?
- Ball groups?
- coordinated zerg guilds?
- Solo players?
- Casual pugs?

There are so many other options brought up over the past 10 years.
- no healing outside of group "crosshealing" (super invasive)
- aoe caps (super invasive)
- Spam cooldowns (super invasive)
- Ramping costs (invasive)
- Hot culling (invasive) basically when a hot ticks twice at full health it will self purge off of you.
- No smart healing (invasive)
- No stacking hots/dots (less invasive)
- change more aoe skills into aimed targeted skills. Any reason breath of life needs to be a fake hidden conal ability that does hundreds of aoe checks?
- Make morphs use different rules. One breath of life is aimed, the other is a smart heal conal that does 70% the heal of the other morph.
- Make some morphs crossheal. Again one morph will only heal your group, the other heals outside your group but only 70% the heal.

A decision needs to be made BEFORE they go and rework all of the skills in the game. Sadly I dont see that happening and zos also just stated that they dont want to affect the other planned skill reworks.

Moothos · January 13

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin I think reverting this change fully is missing the mark as well. Is the current proposal sustainable? No, quite obviously not. But scrapping the whole thing immediately and doing nothing because there is no time left isn't exactly a good option either. We could lower the 50% to just 5-10% and just see what happens. Alternatively upping the threshold that triggers the reduced healing to 5 as some have proposed could also be worth exploring until a better solution is found. We also have modifiers to healing over time and direct healing. Utilizing just the healing over time modifier instead of the current "all healing" is another option to look into.

We don't want to spend another three months dealing with excessive healstacking.

Pretty much this. Excessive heal over time stacking is a long standing issue that needs to be dealt with. Burst healing is fine. This healing change has potential, it just needs to be tweaked. Please do not scrap it entirely.

YandereGirlfriend · January 13

No change is better than a bad or hastily made change. No-Proc Ravenwatch burned that hard wisdom into my brain.

And we absolutely should NOT be "testing changes on Live" as some have suggested.

Let them cook without pressure and return with something simple and targeted that actually solves the problem. Because there is no magic number tweaking that can make the original design of the change acceptable, it is irredeemably flawed approach.

ShadowProc · January 14

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

rlindsey912nub18_ESO · January 14

Caps hots problem solved no more than 2

ShadowProc · January 14

So in an update that is going to further nerf ranged play for solo players we are protecting zombie play. This is laughably insane.

Prax3des · January 14

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

No change is better than a bad or hastily made change. No-Proc Ravenwatch burned that hard wisdom into my brain.

And we absolutely should NOT be "testing changes on Live" as some have suggested.

Let them cook without pressure and return with something simple and targeted that actually solves the problem. Because there is no magic number tweaking that can make the original design of the change acceptable, it is irredeemably flawed approach.

Them rolling out no proc was not a hasty decision - every campaign was like that for months, and yes, we were testing it live, since it was done after all the live AOE/cap tests. We are always testing things on live in Cyrodiil because there's never the actual numbers to be reflective of real gameplay on the PTS - the biggest case in point being Vengeance, which we have at least one more round of, lol.

Radiate77 · January 14

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

Super disappointing to see the team cave to complaining coming primarily from the people that benefit from HOT stacking being so absurdly overpowered, without having a backup solution in mind. I mean there is one offender in particular who has posted 65+ comments in this thread alone...

This issue has gone unaddressed for years now. You have to start somewhere with adjustments. This solution may not have been ideal for a number of reasons, some of which I even agree with - but letting the issue continue to go unaddressed is arguably worse than just testing this out and seeing how things change.

Really hope we get some clear paths forward laid out to target this issue in the very near future. You cannot continue to allow these balance issues to remain if you want the game to make a comeback in 2026.

Yeah we should have just rolled through with a universal 50% heal reduction on 90% of solo players, but you’d be fine on your Nightblade, right?

Firstly if you're getting HoTs applied to you from allies you're not a solo player your surfing your faction.
Secondly if you play solo (even within the faction) there are actually very few times you get healed let alone have a sticky HoT placed on you aside from Polar wind - most other 'solo' players are using Green Vigor + 1 Burst heal as their only form of healing.

So this argument isn't a good one.
I agree that the solution was poorly implemented but @React is also right

All it takes is to have vigor rolling and have something as silly as double health steal poisons trigger.....oops there goes 50% of my healing.

Yeah bro, it’s quite funny watching people deny this simple truth.

YandereGirlfriend · January 14

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

You missed his point again, though.

He is saying that a big component of ballgrouping is and has always been organized GvGs out in the middle of nowhere where it is just a 12v12 fight between two groups with nobody else around.

That isn't farming and has nothing to do with killing zone players; it's literally a "duel" between groups to see who is better that day. IMO, it's also the most fun content that you can experience in a ballgroup.

Most zone players never see that, though, and so we get the same tired tales about ballgroups only farm pugs, etc..

Stridig · January 14

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

You missed his point again, though.

He is saying that a big component of ballgrouping is and has always been organized GvGs out in the middle of nowhere where it is just a 12v12 fight between two groups with nobody else around.

That isn't farming and has nothing to do with killing zone players; it's literally a "duel" between groups to see who is better that day. IMO, it's also the most fun content that you can experience in a ballgroup.

Most zone players never see that, though, and so we get the same tired tales about ballgroups only farm pugs, etc..

My point exactly. Thank you.

MincMincMinc · January 14

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

You missed his point again, though.

He is saying that a big component of ballgrouping is and has always been organized GvGs out in the middle of nowhere where it is just a 12v12 fight between two groups with nobody else around.

That isn't farming and has nothing to do with killing zone players; it's literally a "duel" between groups to see who is better that day. IMO, it's also the most fun content that you can experience in a ballgroup.

Most zone players never see that, though, and so we get the same tired tales about ballgroups only farm pugs, etc..

I see it, i see it all the time when I ride halfway across the map to the only crossed swords on a laggy server, just to see two 12 man groups standing still spamming every aoe hot, buff, proc, shield imaginable.

ShadowProc · January 14

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

You missed his point again, though.

He is saying that a big component of ballgrouping is and has always been organized GvGs out in the middle of nowhere where it is just a 12v12 fight between two groups with nobody else around.

That isn't farming and has nothing to do with killing zone players; it's literally a "duel" between groups to see who is better that day. IMO, it's also the most fun content that you can experience in a ballgroup.

Most zone players never see that, though, and so we get the same tired tales about ballgroups only farm pugs, etc..

Sorry dude. You missed my point. Most of the night is spent farming and stealing ticks at contested keeps. Maybe once that night groups will go in a field and fight each other. But there is no point. I get it. They have dumbed it down so much and lowered the skill level and added so many safe guards for players in groups to not die they mostly end up in stale mates. So what’s the point. They go to keeps to farm un grouped players that are killable, because wait for it, are not being carried by group mechanics and sets.

I honestly get it. I did it too. But most players come to the realization that is a tough click to join group because it is boring they try solo or small scale. They realize holy crap, this is way more challenging to stay alive and kill by myself. The ones that don’t are mostly bad players that need to be carried.

The_Meathead · January 14

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

You missed his point again, though.

He is saying that a big component of ballgrouping is and has always been organized GvGs out in the middle of nowhere where it is just a 12v12 fight between two groups with nobody else around.

That isn't farming and has nothing to do with killing zone players; it's literally a "duel" between groups to see who is better that day. IMO, it's also the most fun content that you can experience in a ballgroup.

Most zone players never see that, though, and so we get the same tired tales about ballgroups only farm pugs, etc..

I see it, i see it all the time when I ride halfway across the map to the only crossed swords on a laggy server, just to see two 12 man groups standing still spamming every imaginable aoe hot, buff, proc, shield imaginable.

I seent it too!

Not super often, but I've seen it - and I just casually set up a meatbag and start firing as retribution for all the times a Ballgroup from a 3rd faction has popped up and ruined an awesome siege battle.

Sure, I'm not nearly as effective at wrecking their fun as they are mine, but it's the thought that counts.

Artisian0001 · January 14

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Bro don’t even. I am not some newbie that doesn’t know better that some ball group players on these forums like to talk down to. Beta player and played large scale at launch with some of the best guilds out there. It’s a joke now to anyone that didn’t play back then. Of course ball groups play away from others. That’s the whole damn point of farming. Then they leave to go steal a tick at actual contested keeps.

You missed his point again, though.

He is saying that a big component of ballgrouping is and has always been organized GvGs out in the middle of nowhere where it is just a 12v12 fight between two groups with nobody else around.

That isn't farming and has nothing to do with killing zone players; it's literally a "duel" between groups to see who is better that day. IMO, it's also the most fun content that you can experience in a ballgroup.

Most zone players never see that, though, and so we get the same tired tales about ballgroups only farm pugs, etc..

I don't know where the narrative started that ballgroups don't fight each other. Ballgroups almost exclusively fight other ballgroups, unless others are not on, but so many people here say they avoid each other. The forum has unironically become a place for people to just lie to push what they want.

Ratzkifal · January 14

Stridig wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

A sweeping change this large just shows how unserious the devs are. It's actually just an insult to anyone who PvPs and plays with just 2 friends or more. Saying "oh well it's a work in progress" is a joke. You don't start from some insane position and slowly bring it to normality, it would be the other way around.

Sweeping change? To be fair I would prefer a hard cap at 3 HoTs so absolutely no HoT more than that. So for me that 50% is not even enough yet. Also that would reduce server calculations by a lot and with that lag. Its absolutely insane to me that you can stack 12 RR and 12 Vigor plus any other heal you please. And thats something people complain about since years, and now finally they address it.

50% isn't enough? Okay go play another game lol The opinion of people whose PvP consists of staring down from inside a keep sieging and dying to every other person isn't something I take serious.

Funny enough ball group play is as difficult to play as sieging is right now compared to the first 5 years. How anyone has fun knowing they are basically immortal is crazy to me. Anything that makes it to where a group can be taken down is a big positive for the health of the game. Now, a group can’t be killed until they get bored and decide to move on. Ball groups don’t engage with each other because the skill gap is gone and you can’t kill each other.

I agree. This isn’t enough but a good start.

Ball groups engage each other all the time. What are you even talking about? They fight away from the rest of the population to keep pugs from blowing them up. So many people on this forum have no clue what they're talking about when they mention ball groups.

Fascinating. I'm not sure what game you've been playing where PUGs are blowing up ballgroups and ballgroups are fighting away from the rest of the population, but it's certainly not ESO. A pug is sieging a keep and the only thing that can stop that is a well timed bomber when there is no camp up or a ballgroup arriving on the scene and immediately cleaning up every pug that's there. Ballgroups can easily take outnumbered fights against pugs because there are no healers in pugs 99% of the time and even when there is one, a ballgroup has every member run Healing Burst and Echoing Vigor (that's 24 hots btw). It's gotten to the point where even well timed bombers cannot take out ballgroups anymore because it requires one-shotting the target in a single damage instance as those 24 running hots will simply heal away the first 15k damage before the second 15k damage can connect and secure a kill. It is that crazy. Don't believe me? Find a friendly ballgroup and just run next to them, then post combat metrics of your healing received. Outside of other ballgroups, major misplays and possibly multiple bombers with perfect timing, nothing is scratching ballgroups nowadays, certainly not "PUGs".
You're right, so many people on this forum have no clue what they are talking about when they mention ballgroups. Were you counting yourself there?