I consider myself a DK enthusiast these days. It was my second favorite class from 2015-2019 and has been my favorite class during my 2nd eso life since returning in 2023.

I have 5 fully developed level 50 DKs -- fg/mg/undaunted/psijic, etc... most of them are above AR20.

There's not one part of the patch notes that I prefer. It's really disappointing that the existing DK play styles are being obliterated at the cost of the enjoyment of existing players to satisfy a strategic goal.

NB was my favorite class through 2019, but it was ruined for me by years of such cavalier disregard. I feel like I'm reliving the first few years of the game all over again with changes being made for a potential new audience instead of existing enjoyers.

But more than that... most classes will face a similar level of disruption over a long period of time which is going to make the meta extremely frustrating for end game players. How long before the dust settles? 18 months? Years? Will ZOS forget about this before they're done like so many other things?

I'm just playing with visuals first, will look at combat feel in a bit.

Any skills that involve wings (Dragon Leap and morphs, Wing Buffet and morphs) do not attach them to the back properly and they hover oddly off to the side


Dragon Blood and morphs: I do like that these don't make the character go invisible, but the effects are not telling much.
The 'chest x-ray' effect looks really cool, but it seems to only signify the burst heal part, and then it goes away very quickly and does not seem to be attached to a timer. The other effect is the floating heart, which is... not awesome and is a bit visually distracting. The HoT on Green Dragon is signified by the floating heart, and the timers for Endurance/Fortitude/Vitality aren't signified at all.

I'd have preferred the heart visual to go away completely, and just keep the x-ray visual. I'd also keep it active for the duration of the buffs (20s).

Also considering the weapons - it kept my guy's shield in his hand, but his axe inexplicably jumped to his back, even though he's still making a fist there. Was this intended that he keeps his weapons in his hand?

EDIT: Also can the icons for Searing Claw and Corrosive Armor be changed to red since the green doesn't make sense anymore with the new visuals?

Incinerate
Not a big fan of this skills rework very much perfer how it looked and acted on live over the new reworked variant

Dragon Blood
Very much dislike the floating heart and chest pound animations that came with the rework but I love the orange glow coming from the ribcage would much prefer we keep the ribcage glow with no heart and something closer to the live cast animation

Earthspike Mantle
Not a huge fan of how turtle shell the spike textures appear at all

Outside of those things visually I like the new changes apart from all skills using the dragon wings animations since they are all currently bugged

I feel like there is just too much visual clutter, and the animations/audio fx are not distinct enough to allow them to be easily distinguished in combat. For example, pretty much everyone i dueled today was really struggling to identify when corrosive was active.

It feels like the animations would be better off with 50% of the particles they have now, so tou can actually tell what is going on. I can only imagine how hectic this is going to get in actual group vs group style environments.

The DMG from "Soul of Flame" feels in comparison to "Blighted Blastbones" and "Deep Fissure" way to weak.
The heal from Coagulating Blood for allies is way to strog in PVP.

Credit where credit is due. I really like almost all the new animation. DK and 2h skill lines.
it terms of balance I think corrosive dot is a bit strong but my inital impressions are positive.
it'll be fun if nothing else.

So I've had the time to do more extensive parsing on magdk, this time on the trial dummy. My gear setup is ansuul front bar, maelstrom inferno back bar, runecarver always on, velothi mythic, and 1 piece monster crit. Parses were done with the same skill setup except live I used degeneration instead of molten armaments on live, and new inhale instead of ash cloud on pts. Here were my results from my best parses.

PTS


Live


So DK is actually weaker on PTS compared to live in a sustained fight, which is really not going to go down well people. Nobody actually wants to become weaker, and it's setting the class further behind the meta subclass setup. Maybe gear and skill setup has to change, but my findings still show DK to be behind by almost 4k damage on PTS.

Gameplay wise, PTS dk feels like a lot of dot juggling because everything is either 10 seconds or 4 seconds. I'm not using whip much because of it, though I'm trying to hit whip every 3 DK skill to make it act like blastbones or spec bow. I try not to hit it unless no skill is running out which is rare. Corrosive is actually turning out to be weaker than standard of might too in a long fight, probably because you can't regenerate ultimate during the 10s timer.

Sustain wise, I can use bewitched sugar skulls on PTS, but ghastly eye bowl is a hard requirement on live, so the sustain is definitely improved.

I have tried standard of might and take flight as ultimate options, but I was getting significantly lower parsers on them. The 20% damage done to monsters isn't actually much if all you can really keep up is dots most of the time. I have tried using quick cloak and elemental blockade, but that saw a decrease in damage. Since whip seems to be proccing off balance more often, I've tried equipping exploiter, but wrathful strikes was still better numbers.

Overall from what I can say, I feel some of the dot timers should be increased so you're not juggling so many dots without a chance to use your spammable. You can't necessarily increase the strength of corrosive without making it too powerful for PvP, but it's damage is lacking compared standard of might on live. Burn procs are significantly higher on PTS, so it may be worth going double charged to get the most out of it instead of nirnhoned & charged.

I was sceptical but it looks extremely good.

I despise how Molten Weapons now replaces your weapon motif, but I love the new casting animation and FX.

Please move the skill "Incinerate" back to Draconic Power. As it stands now on PTS none of DKs skill lines fully warrants their weight for a DD to pick them comfortably.

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

So I've had the time to do more extensive parsing on magdk, this time on the trial dummy. My gear setup is ansuul front bar, maelstrom inferno back bar, runecarver always on, velothi mythic, and 1 piece monster crit. Parses were done with the same skill setup except live I used degeneration instead of molten armaments on live, and new inhale instead of ash cloud on pts. Here were my results from my best parses.

PTS


Live


So DK is actually weaker on PTS compared to live in a sustained fight, which is really not going to go down well people. Nobody actually wants to become weaker, and it's setting the class further behind the meta subclass setup. Maybe gear and skill setup has to change, but my findings still show DK to be behind by almost 4k damage on PTS.

Gameplay wise, PTS dk feels like a lot of dot juggling because everything is either 10 seconds or 4 seconds. I'm not using whip much because of it, though I'm trying to hit whip every 3 DK skill to make it act like blastbones or spec bow. I try not to hit it unless no skill is running out which is rare. Corrosive is actually turning out to be weaker than standard of might too in a long fight, probably because you can't regenerate ultimate during the 10s timer.

Sustain wise, I can use bewitched sugar skulls on PTS, but ghastly eye bowl is a hard requirement on live, so the sustain is definitely improved.

I have tried standard of might and take flight as ultimate options, but I was getting significantly lower parsers on them. The 20% damage done to monsters isn't actually much if all you can really keep up is dots most of the time. I have tried using quick cloak and elemental blockade, but that saw a decrease in damage. Since whip seems to be proccing off balance more often, I've tried equipping exploiter, but wrathful strikes was still better numbers.

Overall from what I can say, I feel some of the dot timers should be increased so you're not juggling so many dots without a chance to use your spammable. You can't necessarily increase the strength of corrosive without making it too powerful for PvP, but it's damage is lacking compared standard of might on live. Burn procs are significantly higher on PTS, so it may be worth going double charged to get the most out of it instead of nirnhoned & charged.

I went back and played around on dummies too after dinner.
Using beginner gear I could just barely eek out 80 and I was hitting high 70s way more often , if that's what someone's getting on high end gear then yeah there's a significant nerf. On a good rotation with the mishmash of gear I was running I was always parsing low 90's while screwing up.

I'd need to go to a dungeon to see how it's handling in group content, but yeah...while I might like the feel of everything, there's definitely a lack of power that isn't going to do anything for people who want to pure class in endgame.

Yeah, the damage is pretty concerning. The article from friday, which is the same as the patch notes from today, made DK sound like it would be incredibly strong, enough to be able to compete with the meta. But the data is simply not showing that.

Could my setup be better? Yeah, I could probably try null arca instead of ansuul, and elf bane instead of runecarver, but the fact of the matter is that the same setup and almost identical skills ended up being weaker than what's available now.

For reference, this is what "The meta" does for me with a lot less work/keyboarding. Until new magdk can be within this range, I'm afraid this refresh is not going to achieve the desired effects everyone thought it would.



Fortunately DK seems like it can handle itself better in PvP compared to the meta, but I imagine most players won't care because they don't play PvP.

Has anyone parsed with an Engulfing Dragonfire build?

I dislike this ability, but at least it's not as fatecarver-like as I feared it would be. I wonder if they would consider toning down fatecarver when it comes time to refresh Arcanist.

trippcap wrote: »

I don't share the same qualms that others have regarding the animations and sfx. Yes some are clunky but for others the clunkiness is better and they look really sick. The biggest issue you MUST fix that I hope is reiterated the most is first by:

1. Restoring standard to its former glory. Give the flame damage back and maybe the damage done while moving the support utility to shifting standard. Lots of people already said this so I won't go further into detail.

2. Passives need huge buffs. The passives don't give nearly enough to make this class viable. Overall the DK as a pure class has gone down in dps since live, inverse of the stated goals. Where's the crit dmg? Crit chance? Penetration? And even with those in the kit they need to all increase by at least 30% for dk to rival subclass builds.

3. Return staggers damage back. Stagger is now an okay but not optimal spammable that now no longer provides as potent of an already fairly weak buff. Why? Make it a super strong dps skill or make it a tank-focused support skill, not some weird in between that doesn't fit anything.

4. Bring eruption back for DPS. Both morphs shouldn't be for support. You guys should focus on adding things, not subtracting them from the game. That plus the new morphs leaves little for the long time veteran to enjoy from the kit they utilized for a decade.

5. Overall please restore eruption, standard, and stagger to their former playstyles as a singular option for their respective morphs. Furthermore, please buff the heck out of the skills and passives to make DK compete properly with subclassed builds instead of being so far behind, and even more behind than it's u48 counterpart.

This.

I won’t even mind if Standard of Might requires multiple DK abilities slotted to bring it back to its former glory with strong flame damage. Matter of fact, this would further incentivize the pure class. Which is something ZOS has stated as their goal. Back when class identity was strong, this was an ability that defined DK dps and playstyle since the game’s inception.

Reducing it to a support ult without giving back the flame damage, even if it’s by way of DK abilities slotted, is just abysmal.

earthspike mantle
and morph

The character's action duration for this skill is too long. If the player uses it quickly and continuously, it will cause the character to show scales directly without any action.

The entire action and animation lack the "explosive" quality of the old version.
Perhaps it would be better to change the character movements to the old version?

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

trippcap wrote: »

I don't share the same qualms that others have regarding the animations and sfx. Yes some are clunky but for others the clunkiness is better and they look really sick. The biggest issue you MUST fix that I hope is reiterated the most is first by:

1. Restoring standard to its former glory. Give the flame damage back and maybe the damage done while moving the support utility to shifting standard. Lots of people already said this so I won't go further into detail.

2. Passives need huge buffs. The passives don't give nearly enough to make this class viable. Overall the DK as a pure class has gone down in dps since live, inverse of the stated goals. Where's the crit dmg? Crit chance? Penetration? And even with those in the kit they need to all increase by at least 30% for dk to rival subclass builds.

3. Return staggers damage back. Stagger is now an okay but not optimal spammable that now no longer provides as potent of an already fairly weak buff. Why? Make it a super strong dps skill or make it a tank-focused support skill, not some weird in between that doesn't fit anything.

4. Bring eruption back for DPS. Both morphs shouldn't be for support. You guys should focus on adding things, not subtracting them from the game. That plus the new morphs leaves little for the long time veteran to enjoy from the kit they utilized for a decade.

5. Overall please restore eruption, standard, and stagger to their former playstyles as a singular option for their respective morphs. Furthermore, please buff the heck out of the skills and passives to make DK compete properly with subclassed builds instead of being so far behind, and even more behind than it's u48 counterpart.

This.

I won’t even mind if Standard of Might requires multiple DK abilities slotted to bring it back to its former glory with strong flame damage. Matter of fact, this would further incentivize the pure class. Which is something ZOS has stated as their goal. Back when class identity was strong, this was an ability that defined DK dps and playstyle since the game’s inception.

Reducing it to a support ult without giving back the flame damage, even if it’s by way of DK abilities slotted, is just abysmal.

Shifting Standard still works the same, and functions very similar to what Standard of Might did, except you can have higher up-time by moving the flag.

Dragonknight has great alternatives, you can maintain near 100% uptime on the 20% damage increase with Take Flight by pairing it with your new Minor Heroism found in-kit, and that 20% boosts all of your damage unlike Incap, including AoE Fiery Breath which synergizes great with the ultimate.

Our new Standard of Might thematically makes sense. Throughout history, flag bearers have been known to boost morale of those fighting with them, and by planting your Banner, the ultimate does just that.

This is a great change, especially paired with alternatives for those who want Single-Target burn.

We can keep going back and forth on this if you want, just know I’m not going to let you and your “PvE only” friends who know that Shifting is still a great option in PvE but want their cake and to eat it too, tear down a skill that I love so Standard and morphs can become a PvE only skill.

Turning Shifting into a group support ult is gonna reinvigorate it and increase the usage of the skill.

Or as I mentioned in my previous post, ZOS can bring back the Might’s original flame damage by having more DK abilities slotted or just having more DK skill lines. Keeping Shifting the same. This enhances the DK’s class fantasy, something this rework aims to do. All of these options are nuanced changes for ZOS to take. Either way, Might’s original flame damage needs to return.

Now as for Take Flight.. this isn’t the same nor should it replace Might. It has a much shorter cooldown whilst not providing any flame damage over time in an area. I can see Flight working better in certain instances over Might, and other instances where Might would be more ideal. This would bring more build variety and flexibility to the DK class instead of a very black and white, “one ultimate to rule them all” view of Take Flight replacing Might. It’s not just the numbers to look at, but also the gameplay function in certain scenarios and encounters.

Shifting Standard is left a competitive PvE ultimate. What is there not to understand here?

And now Corrosive and Take Flight are too. Just earlier in the thread someone was saying that they found Corrosive to perform extremely well in PvE after the doubling of its DoT and from the added pen to everything.

If you enjoy the Standard playstyle, put on Shifting and very little changes about your gameplay, yet if you had it your way, the skill would be completely dead inside of my preferred form of content.