Upcoming QoL: Antiquities

Gabriel_H · January 11

So the upcoming Seasons bring QoL changes, and for antiquities this means:

I mean ... who is this for?

A small side note on history: Antquity lead drops rates vary depending on what the drop from. My own experience would point to a 5% drop rate from bosses, and a 1 - 2.5% drop rate from treasure chests (not map ones). When Gold Road released, ZOS altered this so that the 1st codex entry had a near 100% drop rate, with subsequent entries at the older rates. The increased rate does not apply restrosepectively, plus codexes 2 & 3 remain a major pain point. You need 3 codex entries on furniture to then buy from the achievement vendor (of which not all furnishings are available like that - another pain point), whereas Mythics only require 1 out of 3 codex entries to transmute. And then there is the leads trapped behind treasure maps, that require RNG to get the map (yes I know you can buy the map but that is very expensive) followed by a shocking RNG to get the lead when you open the chest.

So we have 4 complaints:

Lead expiry time
Drop rates
Missing furnishings
Treasure Map leads

There have been numerous complaints over the years about 2, 3 & 4 - with suggestions such as dynamic drop rates (the more you kill the higher the chance becomes) or giving the first 3 codex entries much higher drops before reverting to a lower one, or just not having leads on treasure maps. ZOS seem to have ignored all of that and made their priority 1) Expiry Time.

Now granted, I not able to see any survey results that ZOS may have, nor am I on these forums all day every day - although fun fact: A large chunk of my forum time is when I am either wating for something to spawn or when I'm taking a break after an hour of farming something; both of which is because I an hunting antiquity leads that will not drop - but I cannot recall ever seeing anyone complaining that 30 days was not enough time to dig up a lead.

So why is this the priority change on Antiquity Leads?

Edit: About to enter hour 6 of being in Vile Manse hunting for a lead. Not all in one chunk. It's been over the course of 3 days, but still.

SummersetCitizen · January 11

Gabriel_H wrote: »

So why is this the priority change on Antiquity Leads?

Isn’t the extra time for ESO+ subscribers?

This is an artificial way of adding “value” to ESO+ as it’s actual value continues to decline.

LunaFlora · January 11

i guess it could be the easiest Antiquity improvement for ZOS to develop.

future updates will have similar Quality of Life changes so those other Antiquity things can be added later, might already be in development

Gabriel_H · January 11

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

So why is this the priority change on Antiquity Leads?

Isn’t the extra time for ESO+ subscribers?

This is an artificial way of adding “value” to ESO+ as it’s actual value continues to decline.

I don't disagree, I'm just calling ZOS out on it:

AzuraFan · January 11

Gabriel_H wrote: »

So the upcoming Seasons bring QoL changes, and for antiquities this means:

I mean ... who is this for?

I agree. That was one item that had me scratching my head. The 30 days is already enough. When a lead has expired for me, which is rare, it's always been because I had already hit the 3/3 (or whatever) limit for the lead and I was busy working on something else. If I care about a lead, I deal with it as soon as I get it.

The best fixes for antiquities would have been upping the drop rates, and making sure mobs with leads drop stuff. Some mobs with leads rarely drop anything, which makes getting the lead even more frustrating.

lillybit · January 11

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

So why is this the priority change on Antiquity Leads?

Isn’t the extra time for ESO+ subscribers?

This is an artificial way of adding “value” to ESO+ as it’s actual value continues to decline.

I understood from what they said that leads would last longer for everyone with an extra boost for ESO+ on top of that. Could've been wrong tho

SummersetCitizen · January 11

I captured this during the stream.

Gabriel_H · January 11

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

I captured this during the stream.

Those are on top of new increases. SO ESO+ members will have like 60 days, and non-ESO+ will have 45 days (guessing on the times), but it's still an overall meaningless change, especially compared to actual pain points.

lillybit · January 11

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

I captured this during the stream.

It also says transmutes are going up to 3000 and doesn't mention base game limit is increasing to 1500 too. It doesn't necessarily prove anything on it's own

Necrotech_Master · January 11

personally the expiry times are probably the least annoying point for antiquities lol

if you really cant be bothered to scry and dig it up immediately after you get it, at least scry it (this pauses the expiration timer entirely, and can be done for up to 5 leads before you do have to start digging them up)

my biggest issue with leads is specifically the treasure map leads, its very difficult to get leads from those to begin with, plus getting ones you actually still need just makes it even more difficult for basically no reason

treasure map leads should probably have a drop rate of at least 75% or more for items you have 0 codex entries on, and should also probably be curated to items your missing codex entries for at a bare minimum

Mik195 · January 11

I just started on a new platform and a longer expiration time would have been helpful. Having to grind so that I could get the line leveled before the yellow/gold leads expired was annoying. So longer expiration time or if the guaranteed leads didn't drop until you were able to do purple leads would have been a better experience.

MoonPile · January 11

Yeah, I was hopeful to see the point "TREASURE MAPS - Reworked to improve user experience" on the infographic. But then I heard "making them stackable"

...I hope it's not only that. Stackability alone might even make new-DLC map prices worse as they'll be easier to hoard.

Here's a good thread on the topic, just for reference:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683736/removing-map-based-leads/p1

And speaking of Antiquity improvements more generally, I know the Housing team at least is aware of this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/677582/antiquities-are-missing-from-their-vendors-for-2-3-years
(again, just for reference)

P.S.
I do think increased lead time is a good thing for newer accounts / toons – as someone who recently leveled it on Alt accounts. New characters have a known boost to antiquity drops, which is awesome if you're trying to farm something! But not so awesome if you get a rare gold drop while you have zero Scrying skill on a new account.
.

Al_Ex_Andre · January 12

I thought the new upcoming currency is to buy antiquity leads that WON'T drop, no matter how DOZENS times you try. BUT I WAS misleading.

Because usual RNG is sometimes NOT enough to FINALLY get a lead, ya know, ZOS. Mathematic and statistics cases in point.

Soarora · January 12

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

I thought the new upcoming currency is to buy antiquity leads that WON'T drop, no matter how DOZENS times you try. BUT I WAS misleading.

Because usual RNG is sometimes NOT enough to FINALLY get a lead, ya know, ZOS. Mathematic and statistics cases in point.

Infinite Archive lets you do that. Resets every Tuesday.

Anyways, it is an odd choice though I don't check my leads very often so when I do get around to doing them, some of them are very close to expiring lol.

Al_Ex_Andre · January 12

Soarora wrote: »

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

I thought the new upcoming currency is to buy antiquity leads that WON'T drop, no matter how DOZENS times you try. BUT I WAS misleading.

Because usual RNG is sometimes NOT enough to FINALLY get a lead, ya know, ZOS. Mathematic and statistics cases in point.

Infinite Archive lets you do that. Resets every Tuesday.

Anyways, it is an odd choice though I don't check my leads very often so when I do get around to doing them, some of them are very close to expiring lol.

I know, already.

Once in a blue moon, yes. And there's also Imperial City, but costy and once in a blue moon too, albeit targetted to legendary leads which is better.

Now read again my comment. This is math. That is all.

ChaoticWings3 · January 12

I think longer timers is fine especially since I tend to wait a long time before actually doing ones I collect at random (granted 30 days is still long but I won't say no to a longer timer). Saying that though, I think certain leads really should have their drop rate adjusted so they don't take un-told hours trying to get or hope that they appear in one of the rotating shops for the week. I still have flashbacks to Khanarthi's roost for that furnishing lead....that I just wanted to complete the lore for. Took like 3 to 4 hours while ONLY doing what I need to do for the lead to drop. *sigh* ....small island, doing the same things, listening to 4 episodes of a podcast....could have been doing something else (this was just for lore btw). Pretty much destroyed any enthusiasm to do leads anymore.

I think I said this in my pain points (and honestly a lot of my pain points are being addressed with what is planned so I'm not really too disappointed) but I'll reiterate what I said here. Either a better drop rate for leads, all lore is given after 1 lead find (because a grind for 3 of these is horrible), or more leads in rotating stores which can include purple and treasure map leads (I suggest at least 4 more in some capacity per week). Any one of those would be better than the current state of leads.

Buffy121 · January 12

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I agree however that the real problem with antiquities is the drop rate. Why else did they improve all drop rates in West Weald during an event last year? There are hundreds of antiquity leads at this point and waiting for one of them to appear at a vendor, because it just won't drop for you no matter how many times you do the content, is very frustrating.

ShinyBacon · January 12

i just made a new character on a new server (normally EU, new one NA) and because leads have an almost 100% drop rate for the first time, my level 40 CP0 character has now about 20 golden leads with antiquities not even unlocked and i will know they will expire because im not grinding that out for the sake of grinding.
Meanwhile my CP2600 character on the other server is trying to regrind lots of leads that i previously let expire (wasnt too interested in certain mythics at the time) and I just dont have the motivation to do so. I soooo desperately want o buy that Solstice music box for every house i own, but i have just stopped with the world boss lead.
I do appreciate them making the lead times longer for both cases (new character and old character focusing on other things atm)
however what bothers me the most is the RNG matryoska doll experience of multiple RNGs within RNGs. For example treasure chest RNG, .....its too much.
I would also appreciate it if the source of the lead would be more visible in game so i dont have to leave the game to google where i can get it from. stuff like that makes it unfun and tedious.

MoonPile · January 12

MoonPile wrote: »

Yeah, I was hopeful to see the point "TREASURE MAPS - Reworked to improve user experience" on the infographic. But then I heard "making them stackable"

...I hope it's not only that. Stackability alone might even make new-DLC map prices worse as they'll be easier to hoard.

Here's a good thread on the topic, just for reference:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683736/removing-map-based-leads/p1

And speaking of Antiquity improvements more generally, I know the Housing team at least is aware of this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/677582/antiquities-are-missing-from-their-vendors-for-2-3-years
(again, just for reference)

P.S.
I do think increased lead time is a good thing for newer accounts / toons – as someone who recently leveled it on Alt accounts. New characters have a known boost to antiquity drops, which is awesome if you're trying to farm something! But not so awesome if you get a rare gold drop while you have zero Scrying skill on a new account.
.

Not a word about addressing these issues on the stream right now

Gabriel_H · January 12

Buffy121 wrote: »

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I'm sure there will be a few, but it does very much feel like two-fingers up from ZOS with regards to the more egregious and numerous other complaints.

PS: About to logon for my 20th kill of the Gorne Group Event, and then back to Vile Manse for another hour

wolfie1.0. · January 12

One of the more annoying things about antiquities, especially if your just starting it, or if your in the process of grinding it. Is getting a lead that you cant scry or dig up.

Getting a dozen or so legendary, and rare drop leads can be frustrating. I remember losing a few rare ones simply because I didnt have the time to level up the skill line.

So ya this benefits new players not old.

But ya increased drop rates would be nice.

MoonPile · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Buffy121 wrote: »

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I'm sure there will be a few, but it does very much feel like two-fingers up from ZOS with regards to the more egregious and numerous other complaints.

PS: About to logon for my 20th kill of the Gorne Group Event, and then back to Vile Manse for another hour

Gabriel are you hunting for leads in there? Have you tried doing this with a brand new character yet? (if you can spare a slot) Obviously Gorne GE would be difficult with a lvl 3 but if there's nobody around, I'm sure others would be willing to help - even me!

Gabriel_H · January 12

MoonPile wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Buffy121 wrote: »

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I'm sure there will be a few, but it does very much feel like two-fingers up from ZOS with regards to the more egregious and numerous other complaints.

PS: About to logon for my 20th kill of the Gorne Group Event, and then back to Vile Manse for another hour

Gabriel are you hunting for leads in there? Have you tried doing this with a brand new character yet? (if you can spare a slot) Obviously Gorne GE would be difficult with a lvl 3 but if there's nobody around, I'm sure others would be willing to help - even me!

I have one toon. It's all I need. Another character would just mean I'd have to re-hunt all 3 codex entries on all antiquities again (and all the lorebooks, and 100% map completion, and level all the skillls, and do all the quests etc). OCD is a harsh mistress, even with medication.

MoonPile · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Buffy121 wrote: »

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I'm sure there will be a few, but it does very much feel like two-fingers up from ZOS with regards to the more egregious and numerous other complaints.

PS: About to logon for my 20th kill of the Gorne Group Event, and then back to Vile Manse for another hour

Gabriel are you hunting for leads in there? Have you tried doing this with a brand new character yet? (if you can spare a slot) Obviously Gorne GE would be difficult with a lvl 3 but if there's nobody around, I'm sure others would be willing to help - even me!

I have one toon. It's all I need. Another character would just mean I'd have to re-hunt all 3 codex entries on all antiquities again. OCD is a harsh mistress, even with medication.

Not at all – the new character would just get lead drops much faster. They do not even need to get the Antiquities skill line. Your main character would then scry the lead your newbie got.

(Someone else on the forums helped me with this tip back when I was going after the infamous Moons Blessed Pool. It's a HUGE boon, at least for monster/container-drop leads. Unfortunately it does not work for Garbage Maps.)
-

lillybit · January 12

MoonPile wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Buffy121 wrote: »

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I'm sure there will be a few, but it does very much feel like two-fingers up from ZOS with regards to the more egregious and numerous other complaints.

PS: About to logon for my 20th kill of the Gorne Group Event, and then back to Vile Manse for another hour

Gabriel are you hunting for leads in there? Have you tried doing this with a brand new character yet? (if you can spare a slot) Obviously Gorne GE would be difficult with a lvl 3 but if there's nobody around, I'm sure others would be willing to help - even me!

I have one toon. It's all I need. Another character would just mean I'd have to re-hunt all 3 codex entries on all antiquities again. OCD is a harsh mistress, even with medication.

Not at all – the new character would just get lead drops much faster. They do not even need to get the Antiquities skill line. Your main character would then scry the lead your newbie got.

(Someone else on the forums helped me with this tip back when I was going after the infamous Moons Blessed Pool. It's a HUGE boon, at least for monster/container-drop leads. Unfortunately it does not work for Garbage Maps.)
-

I'm pretty sure Codex are account wide too, so nothing extra to do and no benefit levelling another character except possibly for the treasure chest passives

MoonPile · January 12

lillybit wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Buffy121 wrote: »

I was surprised at this improvement too. No doubt there will be some people who will benefit.

I'm sure there will be a few, but it does very much feel like two-fingers up from ZOS with regards to the more egregious and numerous other complaints.

PS: About to logon for my 20th kill of the Gorne Group Event, and then back to Vile Manse for another hour

Gabriel are you hunting for leads in there? Have you tried doing this with a brand new character yet? (if you can spare a slot) Obviously Gorne GE would be difficult with a lvl 3 but if there's nobody around, I'm sure others would be willing to help - even me!

I have one toon. It's all I need. Another character would just mean I'd have to re-hunt all 3 codex entries on all antiquities again. OCD is a harsh mistress, even with medication.

Not at all – the new character would just get lead drops much faster. They do not even need to get the Antiquities skill line. Your main character would then scry the lead your newbie got.

(Someone else on the forums helped me with this tip back when I was going after the infamous Moons Blessed Pool. It's a HUGE boon, at least for monster/container-drop leads. Unfortunately it does not work for Garbage Maps.)
-

I'm pretty sure Codex are account wide too, so nothing extra to do and no benefit levelling another character except possibly for the treasure chest passives

Right, exactly

Carbon · January 12

Antiquities are the only system that has ever forced me to take breaks lasting several months from the game — multiple times — over my 10 years of playing.

As a completionist, I’m trying to collect all codex entries for everything, except mythical items (I don’t know what I’d do with them, since they aren’t stackable). The biggest issue is how unforgiving the RNG behind this system is. Killing hundreds of dragons, havocrels, opening even more chests and so on just to get three leads for some furnishing I’ll never even use is horrible, tiresome, and really frustrating.

Starting with The Reach, things become even worse when dozens of motif pages are locked behind treasure maps, which are both rare and expensive (depends how old it's location is). Still, this isn’t the worst part. Those pages have only a single codex entry and are tradable, so it is at least possible to make some gold back.

Then Necrom arrived. Most of its leads are locked behind extremely expensive and rare treasure maps, have three codex entries, and result in furnishings that aren’t even sellable. The same approach continues with every new batch of antiquities (with the exception of Infinite Archive — but that’s another story; at this point I’m starting to think it’s impossible to get them all).

I’ve lost around 50 million gold on those maps, skipping listings with absurd prices, and I’ve completely lost the will to ever pursue this again.

It would be great if leads themselves were tradable. Alternatively, there could be a hidden but known guaranteed-drop counter — ideally different for each rarity (which currently makes absolutely no sense), but at least applied universally. For example, you would need N attempts to obtain a lead from any eligible source. If RNG decides to give it to you early, the counter resets.

With such an approach, the current system could remain unchanged, but without the constant frustration and the lingering doubt about whether a lead is bugged or simply refusing to drop.