Please don't let us hide legs - there is a real harassment issue there.

SilverBride · January 9

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

The mass should not be punished for the actions of a few...

How is not getting something that we have never had for 12 years now a punishment?

alternatelder · January 9

I can see the teabagging part being an issue, more for those who don't like it already. But just seeing people not wearing pants being bothersome is pretty funny. If only they knew they are playing with people who are pantsless irl.

AScarlato · January 9

SilverBride wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

The mass should not be punished for the actions of a few...

How is not getting something that we have never had for 12 years now a punishment?

Because it was promised to us now. Reneging on this promise now - especially if based on this thread - would feel like a punishment at this point in time.

Especially when you consider we have at least fleeting interactions with thousands upon thousands of people and these things almost never happen in the grand scheme of playing.

Soarora · January 9

AScarlato wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I still just want to know why someone would want to hide pants! Not out of judgement but out of curiosity as to what the thought process would be behind such a look. Making a minidress out of a longer top?

I remember seeing an outfit in the fashion post where they had a lady with a chest piece that had a substantial crotch flap and no legs to show off lovely tattos that ran the length of their legs. It was gorgeous!

Think Almalexia, they do about the same with her.

I know in Final Fantasy XIV, where you can already remove everything as you desire, many people use the option so they can wear a long shirt and also boots that can go quite high over the knee, for a nice aesthetic.

That game also has various underwear / swimsuit bottoms that are sometimes used for the same reason. As an aside, they actually have a leg piece that looks like underwear that mysteriously makes your butt bigger - so of course that is probably the most single-used pants item in the game lol.

Curious what outfits people will put together in ESO's armory.

Soarora wrote: »

When you cherry pick statements like that you can miss nuance.

Well, some of the things I "cherry picked" were nearly the entire post - like your initial response to mine. Also specific arguments can be discussed if they are the foundation of a conclusion. That said it seems you are fine with the option moving ahead, so not much to see here at this point.

HOLD UP, I DID NOT SAY THAT!!!
Defending my honor here LOL. You mis attributed someone elses quote to me! I don’t know who the actual writer of the quote is but I’d be grateful if you at least didn’t make it me LOL. I understand why people would want to hide pieces now after messing around at the outfit station.

I’ve experienced a video game shock of inappropriate harassment… twice… but it was beyond “they took off their pants, showing their undergarments and pressed wswswsws”. I had my female character grappled and hogtied by a fully unclothed man, one time I was even teleported into a cave with no exit. It filled me with the horror of a small taste of what it’s like to experience such harassment and made me very empathetic towards people who have experienced the real deal. I would not say that someone pressing wswswsws in their undergarments is even on the same level as that experience, even though it would be a bit uncomfortable.

AScarlato · January 9

Soarora wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I still just want to know why someone would want to hide pants! Not out of judgement but out of curiosity as to what the thought process would be behind such a look. Making a minidress out of a longer top?

I remember seeing an outfit in the fashion post where they had a lady with a chest piece that had a substantial crotch flap and no legs to show off lovely tattos that ran the length of their legs. It was gorgeous!

Think Almalexia, they do about the same with her.

I know in Final Fantasy XIV, where you can already remove everything as you desire, many people use the option so they can wear a long shirt and also boots that can go quite high over the knee, for a nice aesthetic.

That game also has various underwear / swimsuit bottoms that are sometimes used for the same reason. As an aside, they actually have a leg piece that looks like underwear that mysteriously makes your butt bigger - so of course that is probably the most single-used pants item in the game lol.

Curious what outfits people will put together in ESO's armory.

Soarora wrote: »

When you cherry pick statements like that you can miss nuance.

Well, some of the things I "cherry picked" were nearly the entire post - like your initial response to mine. Also specific arguments can be discussed if they are the foundation of a conclusion. That said it seems you are fine with the option moving ahead, so not much to see here at this point.

HOLD UP, I DID NOT SAY THAT!!!
Defending my honor here LOL. You mis attributed someone elses quote to me! I don’t know who the actual writer of the quote is but I’d be grateful if you at least didn’t make it me LOL. I understand why people would want to hide pieces now after messing around at the outfit station.

I’ve experienced a video game shock of inappropriate harassment… twice… but it was beyond “they took off their pants, showing their undergarments and pressed wswswsws”. I had my female character grappled and hogtied by a fully unclothed man, one time I was even teleported into a cave with no exit. It filled me with the horror of a small taste of what it’s like to experience such harassment and made me very empathetic towards people who have experienced the real deal. I would not say that someone pressing wswswsws in their undergarments is even on the same level as that experience, even though it would be a bit uncomfortable.

Sorry, I went and fixed that! I was trying to respond to multiple people on my iPad in one post and it turned into a big mess!

Though it doesn't sound like it, I really am sympathetic to people who are harassed. I was harassed quite a few times when playing female characters. They need to be reported and punished.

I was roleplaying a 14 year old about to turn 15 back in EverQuest 2, and got a really scary creeper - someone who was messaging inappropriate and highly sexual things to several female characters. We knew each other and shared what was happening, so we ended up going to his house and rearranged all his furniture (and by rearrange we piled every item into the house into a massive pile at the front door), reported and then blocked him.

I do think this happens more to female characters, and definitely is a serious issue. I just think there are far more innocent players who enjoy cosmetic options than there are people like this - and those bad actors will always find a way.

Panthermic · January 9

SilverBride wrote: »

Panthermic wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but there is NOTHING related to this new feature that wasn't possible since the game is available. Just read what's written in the function's description--and try it out if you don't believe in what you read--that it works exactly the way it's written.

Thus, to show your underwear, you need to have your armor removed from its slot, which was always possible before this new feature, as well.

So I guess nothing to see here, and nothing needs to be disabled. Report the bad actor(s) and move on.

The difference is that players had to remove their armor, which they weren't doing when running group content or PvPing. Now they can keep their armor on but still look naked, and I personally will leave any group that has naked looking players in it just on the principle.

False, the armor still needs to be removed. As I suggested, try it out yourself. If you keep your armor equipped, then that piece of armor will be shown instead of your outfit.

That's pretty sure neither my skin nor my underwear, but the armor--Guards of Mother's Embrace--I'm wearing under my outfit:

SilverBride · January 9

Panthermic wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The difference is that players had to remove their armor, which they weren't doing when running group content or PvPing. Now they can keep their armor on but still look naked, and I personally will leave any group that has naked looking players in it just on the principle.

False, the armor still needs to be removed. As I suggested, try it out yourself. If you keep your armor equipped, then that piece of armor will be shown instead of your outfit.

The armor still needs to be removed NOW. But when we can HIDE armor it will completely hide it and we will just see the player's underwear.

lillybit · January 9

Panthermic wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Panthermic wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but there is NOTHING related to this new feature that wasn't possible since the game is available. Just read what's written in the function's description--and try it out if you don't believe in what you read--that it works exactly the way it's written.

Thus, to show your underwear, you need to have your armor removed from its slot, which was always possible before this new feature, as well.

So I guess nothing to see here, and nothing needs to be disabled. Report the bad actor(s) and move on.

The difference is that players had to remove their armor, which they weren't doing when running group content or PvPing. Now they can keep their armor on but still look naked, and I personally will leave any group that has naked looking players in it just on the principle.

False, the armor still needs to be removed. As I suggested, try it out yourself. If you keep your armor equipped, then that piece of armor will be shown instead of your outfit.

That's pretty sure neither my skin nor my underwear, but the armor--Guards of Mother's Embrace--I'm wearing under my outfit:

That's how it works now. After the update you'll be able to hide every outfit slot the same way you can currently hide head and shoulders. That's the issue here

MXVIIDREAM · January 9

Literally not a single person agrees with you it’s a game get over it just report block and go anywhere else in the entire game
Also mad that this happened one time, and you want it changed entitled

scrappy1342 · January 9

it's a discussion. not everyone has to agree. it's a valid concern and more than one person has agreed. i'm sure the solution won't be to remove/not implement it entirely, but this is how you find a compromise that more ppl can live with.

ArchangelIsraphel · January 9

So, in another game I used to play a while back, this sort of toggling feature was implemented to enable various fashions to be seen. In that game, there was actually decorative undergarments as well, which people used to style their armor.

What happened there, was that in the first couple weeks, there was a lot of trolling by the kind of people you'd expect to go "hur hur I have no pants durrr". Before that point, the same kind of people were still trolling in this way, they just had to take off all of their armor to do so. The system didn't actually make it more convenient for them to do any of this, because there was a steep fee to enable the pants/top toggles, and you really had to think about whether you wanted to enable the feature.

So, while there was a slight uptick in trolling, it didn't actually last long. People ended up getting bored, because other players ceased to respond to them at all. In the long run, interestingly enough, it actually resulted in way less naked/pantsless players, because once everyone could do it, it was no longer novel, and the toggles were only used when it looked good under an armor piece.

Those who did enable the toggle to troll, got laughed at by their intended victims, because they'd be like "You really paid 1mil just to do that? Ok then."

I'm not really a fan of egregious fees, but if you really want to make a troll think for a hot minute, lay a hefty fee on running around with no pants specifically, so that only those who really want to do it for fashion will consider using the toggle.

(Although, honestly, I liked someone else's solution better, where a blocked player just disappears.)

By the way- OP, I'm sorry you got harassed in that way. It's unfortunate that this type of humor is considered funny. Please know that it's less about you than it is about who they are as a person. The type of individual that does this sort of thing is always looking for a reaction. Deny them that reaction, and they will be discouraged from trying it again on you.

Radiate77 · January 9

Vampryss wrote: »

umm.. these are pixels on a screen, not IRL scenerios. I go naked dungeon running all the time. Only equipping what is picked up during the run and skills that don't require weapons.

Use the report tools for harassing behavior. That's what they are there for.

This sounds like a lot of fun!
Imagine a whole playlist for this?

SwordOfSagas · January 9

SilverBride wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Please don't let players hide pants. I don't want to group with naked players for World Bosses, or Incursions, or Dungeons or Trials, etc.. It looks too unrealistic and is very immersion breaking.

If you don't want to break immersion because of people removing their pants, then maybe you should actively ask ZOS to remove 95% of mounts/pets/emots/etc. added to the game these last 10 years.

I already have. Rather I have asked for a toggle to not have to see all the loud and flashy effects from these mounts and recalls.

I've been asking for that for years as well. But ZOS knows what sells best: flashy mounts and goofy emotes/personalities. That's what people are paying for.

Then let them pay for them and have them. Just don't force someone else's like of loud and flashy things on me. Give us a toggle to hide them from our view.

Yeah and don't force someone's dislike of people not wearing pants on me.

SilverBride · January 9

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Then let them pay for them and have them. Just don't force someone else's like of loud and flashy things on me. Give us a toggle to hide them from our view.

Yeah and don't force someone's dislike of people not wearing pants on me.

That isn't the same at all. Not being able to hide pants, which has never been a thing for the past 12 years, doesn't hurt anyone. But hiding pants is not only unpleasant for a lot of players, it can be used to harass.

Syldras · January 9

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

In the long run, interestingly enough, it actually resulted in way less naked/pantsless players, because once everyone could do it, it was no longer novel, and the toggles were only used when it looked good under an armor piece.

Now I wonder what might happen if we all let our characters run around in their underwear for a few weeks. People seeking attention might start wearing pants to feel special.

ArchangelIsraphel · January 9

Syldras wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

In the long run, interestingly enough, it actually resulted in way less naked/pantsless players, because once everyone could do it, it was no longer novel, and the toggles were only used when it looked good under an armor piece.

Now I wonder what might happen if we all let our characters run around in their underwear for a few weeks. People seeking attention might start wearing pants to feel special.

That's pretty much what happened in that game. Big guilds would use the (free) option of just unequipping their armor completely and AFK in safe zones to make the trolls just one of many random people in their underwear. The "haha look I'm not wearing anything" factor wore off fast after that, and the trolls went back to wearing whatever top tier skins they had so that they could show off how "elite" they were. It's very much an attention seeking mindset.

I spent that month on an assassin dressed in plain newbie skins, ganking pantsless people who were too busy trolling others to notice me.

Orbital78 · January 9

I think players should be given as many tools as possible to customize their characters and in-game experience. Jerks will be in the game no matter what ZoS or players do. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean many more won't use and enjoy it for the positive. I have seen players come up with some pretty epic roleplay or mimic outfits already, let people have their fun. Those trying to use it maliciously or in fun at your expense is the minority. Retreat to your house, consider it you personal little safe zone/bubble if need be, but let people have fun and stop being selfish.

One of my guilds does pantless trial runs, it is for fun. Not everything is about you or meant to be sexualized.

lillybit · January 10

"Oh look, it's another Ken doll showing off his lady parts!"

Not trying to trivialise it. You can't control what others do, only how you react to it. Reframing it as something like this could make it more bearable and could just maybe embarrass them into stopping. Harassment is never nice but remember that you are safe. They don't know who or where you are or even that you're actually female. They're just being idiots.

hiyde · January 10

SilverBride wrote: »

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Then let them pay for them and have them. Just don't force someone else's like of loud and flashy things on me. Give us a toggle to hide them from our view.

Yeah and don't force someone's dislike of people not wearing pants on me.

That isn't the same at all. Not being able to hide pants, which has never been a thing for the past 12 years, doesn't hurt anyone. But hiding pants is not only unpleasant for a lot of players, it can be used to harass.

Running around pantless has been a thing for the past 12 years and takes 3 seconds more effort than this new toggle.

Anyone who wants to harass folks in this way is already doing it. Harassment is reportable. It's bannable.

Canceling this change would accomplish absolutely nothing when it comes to preventing harassment.

spartaxoxo · January 10

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

In the long run, interestingly enough, it actually resulted in way less naked/pantsless players, because once everyone could do it, it was no longer novel, and the toggles were only used when it looked good under an armor piece.

Now I wonder what might happen if we all let our characters run around in their underwear for a few weeks. People seeking attention might start wearing pants to feel special.

That's pretty much what happened in that game. Big guilds would use the (free) option of just unequipping their armor completely and AFK in safe zones to make the trolls just one of many random people in their underwear. The "haha look I'm not wearing anything" factor wore off fast after that, and the trolls went back to wearing whatever top tier skins they had so that they could show off how "elite" they were. It's very much an attention seeking mindset.

I spent that month on an assassin dressed in plain newbie skins, ganking pantsless people who were too busy trolling others to notice me.

That's awesome! And heartwarming. And the higher price for the legs may be a good compromise. Thanks for sharing!!

ZOS_Icy · January 10

Greetings,

As this thread has begun to derail with non-constructive commentary, we've decided to close it down. Please be sure to keep our Community Rules in mind when posting on our forums.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team