Arthritis and DPS

SugaComa · January 9

For this of us getting older and having issues like arthritis in our hands, high DPS is much harder to achieve

Thank fully Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet combined with other sets allows us to be able to compete on some level, and a really good skill to boost damage is the scribed skills for the destro staff.

But it needs a tweak, a two second ramp up is almost impossible to land it correctly as by the time it fires someone has moved the enemy .

Can we please have the cast time looked at for this skill for the love all players

LunaFlora · January 9

that would indeed be good

Soarora · January 9

The cast time really does kill the skill. Sure, could use it to pre-cast damage but I’ve not even seen sweaty players do that.

Radiate77 · January 9

Moving cast time skills to function where you aim at the end of the cast, rather than the beginning, would make the skill feel much better to use.

Part of me feels like this was an oversight, and I’d imagine that if the right people saw this, it would be fixed rather quickly.

YandereGirlfriend · January 9

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

Soarora · January 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

That is a good point. It would be impossible to avoid if it moved to the cursor. I do think the channel time should be cut down on it though, even if it means the AoE damage & effects get a delay.

Radiate77 · January 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

It’s bashable and interruptible though, right?

If this became a problem in PvP, players would adapt to it, as we’ve always done with changing metas.

spartaxoxo · January 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

Perhaps not instant cast but the current cast time really does kill the skill. I don't pvp in this game as often but that long time seems like it would be letting you counter for it completely free. Like you could take a leisurely stroll and avoid it. I don't see cast times that long in pvp in other games.

Radiate77 · January 9

Soarora wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

That is a good point. It would be impossible to avoid if it moved to the cursor. I do think the channel time should be cut down on it though, even if it means the AoE damage & effects get a delay.

You would avoid it by interrupting the player casting it.

YandereGirlfriend · January 9

Radiate77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

That is a good point. It would be impossible to avoid if it moved to the cursor. I do think the channel time should be cut down on it though, even if it means the AoE damage & effects get a delay.

You would avoid it by interrupting the player casting it.

Most people who use this ability in PvP use it from the back of a larger group as a ranged nuke.

That is already a very low-risk/high-reward way to play and shouldn't be made even less low-risk with even higher reward. The only real downside is if you miss your target due to the cast time, which is very little risk at all in the grand scheme of things.

If one reduced the cast time then some combination of substantial tooltip, range, and radius nerf would all be required to balance it.

spartaxoxo · January 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

That is a good point. It would be impossible to avoid if it moved to the cursor. I do think the channel time should be cut down on it though, even if it means the AoE damage & effects get a delay.

You would avoid it by interrupting the player casting it.

Most people who use this ability in PvP use it from the back of a larger group as a ranged nuke.

That is already a very low-risk/high-reward way to play and shouldn't be made even less low-risk with even higher reward. The only real downside is if you miss your target due to the cast time, which is very little risk at all in the grand scheme of things.

If one reduced the cast time then some combination of substantial tooltip, range, and radius nerf would all be required to balance it.

If that's the only place it's useful then it don't need nerfs to fix that. The deck shouldn't need to be wildly stacked in the person's favor with multiple other people helping them to pull it off just to successfully cast a skill. This also makes me question if you pretty much need the set pulls to make it work.

Radiate77 · January 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

That is a good point. It would be impossible to avoid if it moved to the cursor. I do think the channel time should be cut down on it though, even if it means the AoE damage & effects get a delay.

You would avoid it by interrupting the player casting it.

Most people who use this ability in PvP use it from the back of a larger group as a ranged nuke.

That is already a very low-risk/high-reward way to play and shouldn't be made even less low-risk with even higher reward. The only real downside is if you miss your target due to the cast time, which is very little risk at all in the grand scheme of things.

If one reduced the cast time then some combination of substantial tooltip, range, and radius nerf would all be required to balance it.

Wouldn’t this make sense? In typical fantasy you have a mage in the back creating devastation, and then rogues who backline and take them out.

I agree with 99% of your takes, but I’m not sure on this one.

YandereGirlfriend · January 9

Radiate77 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is not an oversight it is there to help balance it in PvP, which is necessary.

If the skill was instant-cast or updated its position while casting it would be massively overpowered in PvP given its incredibly high damage tuning, absurd radius, and strong secondary effects.

That is a good point. It would be impossible to avoid if it moved to the cursor. I do think the channel time should be cut down on it though, even if it means the AoE damage & effects get a delay.

You would avoid it by interrupting the player casting it.

Most people who use this ability in PvP use it from the back of a larger group as a ranged nuke.

That is already a very low-risk/high-reward way to play and shouldn't be made even less low-risk with even higher reward. The only real downside is if you miss your target due to the cast time, which is very little risk at all in the grand scheme of things.

If one reduced the cast time then some combination of substantial tooltip, range, and radius nerf would all be required to balance it.

Wouldn’t this make sense? In typical fantasy you have a mage in the back creating devastation, and then rogues who backline and take them out.

I agree with 99% of your takes, but I’m not sure on this one.

It's a valid way to play but what I'm saying is that it's currently both strong and balanced.

If it were made to be instant or otherwise super easy to land then it would be strong without any semblance of balance.

Consider - why would someone ever go to the extra risk of playing melee if they could instead simply stand back and spam something like an instant-cast Destro Scribe? It would obviate all other playstyles. Why, say, D-Swing someone when it hits for less, is single-target, and is melee? You wouldn't.

There are also other factors to balance around, such as the Knockback effect. You simply can't have that morph co-existing with instant cast, ranged, and with a huge radius. That is just too much for a single ability. It's already a highly annoying ability when you're attacking a keep, as it will knock you off of your siege or off of walls, into geometry, etc. But at least the caster has to use some foresight in order to land it. If it were instead instant-cast, nobody would ever be able to siege a keep because those fights would devolve into a one-sided ranged knockback-fest.

For comparison, the best AOE Stun in the game that comes from a regular ability is NB Fear. That is instant-cast but is balanced by being both melee to cast and by having a far, far, far smaller area of effect (i.e. the area of a circle r=12 is over 4x that of a circle r=6) than the Destro Scribe.

ApoAlaia · January 9

So, what would be a reasonable compromise in this case?

Because 'leave the skill unusable in PvE because it might be overtuned in PvP otherwise' is not a reasonable compromise.

Add a cast time via Battle Spirit? Block 'problematic' scribing combinations altogether?

They said that this year a lot of development effort was going to be put on PvP - not that no effort has gone into it until now, they came up with Vengeance after all and they keep tuning it - so now seems to be the time to iron these kinks.

DenverRalphy · January 9

Not discounting the issue of arthritis and it's effects on the ability to DPS.. But to me the issue isn't that Elemental Explosion needs to be tweaked, so much as the player simply chose a skill not conducive to their gear build.

ApoAlaia · January 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Not discounting the issue of arthritis and it's effects on the ability to DPS.. But to me the issue isn't that Elemental Explosion needs to be tweaked, so much as the player simply chose a skill not conducive to their gear build.

When confronted with immutable limitations one has to get creative in order to keep up.

In my experience even in single player, always offline games any provisions/concessions made to bridge those limitations are often met with scepticism.

In multiplayer games is usually best to not even bring the subject up. Don't get me wrong, is worth bringing it up with developers and publishers, just not with the 'general player base'.

So all one can do is throw things at the wall and see if something sticks.

SugaComa · January 10

I would settle for a 1.2 to 1.5 second cast but 2 seconds is useless, and I'm not talking PvP, I'm talking either dungeons delves, trials where either ransoms pill the mob as your lining it up or worse tank in trials loses taunt for some one to drag it off before it lands , hell I will even take lower damage output at a reduced cast time

Orbital78 · January 10

The destro scribed ability has never felt good to me. The only place I have ever somewhat used it was overland where mobs have such low health and can easily be pulled in mass.

If you're having hand and wrist issues, a standard heavy attack build with a controller might be a better option. Destro passives have lost a TON of power due to nerfs but for non-hm stuff it is usually enough. It lacks the burst needed for some mechs in newer dungeons though. I had issues with the totems in Naj HM. Arcanist really doesn't need too much weaving either, basically swap to backbar with elemental wall and inspired scholarship on cooldown and tentacle, tentacle, beam for the win. Easiest and highest dps I can do currently. I hope the balance changes make other more fun builds viable or more viable again.

I saw Dooma post some throwing knive builds I wanted to try out, but never did. Overall cast time abilities just don't feel good for most builds.

IsharaMeradin · January 10

In PVE I use the destruction scribed skill on my warden. I'll cast the shalks with its 3 second wait followed by the scribed skill with its 2 second cast time. By the time the shalks hit, the scribed skill lands almost immediately. All depends on how fast I am in hitting those two skills. It is a very good mop up combo for trash mobs. Sometimes a few get missed, yes. But I haven't seen it as a big problem.

When I first started using it, I didn't understand why it had such a long cast time compared to other scribed skills. After using it for a while, I am starting to see why it is the way that it is.

I do typically solo, so I tend not to run into issues with other player's moving the mobs away. And I do swap the skill out for one of the wall of elements morphs on certain world bosses. Not because of better damage, but because after trying that boss with the scribed skill the two second cast time became a problem for reacting to incoming damage.

In PVP, it makes a nice dent on the guards at a resource. But that is still technically PVE.

YandereGirlfriend · January 10

SugaComa wrote: »

I would settle for a 1.2 to 1.5 second cast but 2 seconds is useless, and I'm not talking PvP, I'm talking either dungeons delves, trials where either ransoms pill the mob as your lining it up or worse tank in trials loses taunt for some one to drag it off before it lands , hell I will even take lower damage output at a reduced cast time

Damage would have to be much lower because the high tooltip only exists due to the long channel time. The channel consumes essentially 2 GCDs so you are rewarded with 2 GCDs worth of spammable damage for the tick. If the channel time is reduced, then the damage would need to be reduced in proportion since the commitment is no longer the same.

I think that what some folk are missing is that you cannot have the existing tooltip without the channel time. That would instantly obviate every other spammable ability in the game with its huge radius and huge damage. I am not even sure that the Scribing is even meant to BE a spammable ability considering the staff line already has Elemental Ring which is basically what everyone in this thread claims to seem to want (e.g. instant-cast long-range area spammable).

Radiate77 · January 10

Yeah no, the channel time can’t be shorter, @YandereGirlfriend is 100% right.

Imagine how boring the skill would feel if it didn’t do so much damage, which is why I still feel that the right way to handle this problem is to have the impact wherever you’re aiming instead of 2 seconds ago. The combat in ESO has become much too fast for the Destruction skill.

Artem_gig · January 10

You're so casual... Just use the skill not where the enemy is, but where it will be.

Radiate77 · January 10

Artem_gig wrote: »

You're so casual... Just use the skill not where the enemy is, but where it will be.

Such a weird take. OP makes a valid point about the skill feeling like it was designed for 2014 and your argument for them is to get better?

ApoAlaia · January 10

Radiate77 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

You're so casual... Just use the skill not where the enemy is, but where it will be.

Such a weird take. OP makes a valid point about the skill feeling like it was designed for 2014 and your argument for them is to get better?

I might be wildly off the mark here but to me it read as a tongue-in-cheek comment.

HedgeHugger · January 10

One of the most basic things I did for Arthritis (rheumatoid), was to swap from keyboard and mouse to controller. A pad is so much easier on the hands.
It does take a bit of getting used to though.

I think of it as my gaming retirement.

SugaComa · January 10

HedgeHugger wrote: »

One of the most basic things I did for Arthritis (rheumatoid), was to swap from keyboard and mouse to controller. A pad is so much easier on the hands.
It does take a bit of getting used to though.

I think of it as my gaming retirement.

I'm on console, it's in my fingers sometimes they lock up and I get a permablock or heavy attack but I can't move to fire the skills,

I'm on a Templar and the scribed skills is a good way to open damage as a first cast and IF an enemy is hit grants major brutality and Sorcery, something the templar lacks natively, , but if the enemy starts to move that 2 seconds can result in a 20% damage loss and 2 second cast time was wasted as the real damage is not happening.

Arcanist can use the group pull to an enemy so you can target much better, warden and becro both have skills to compliment it, I just don't see it on my Templar, it's clunky , slow and eats too much for too little in public zones or dodgy pick up groups

spartaxoxo · January 10

Radiate77 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend is 100% right.

Imagine how boring the skill would feel if it didn’t do so much damage, which is why I still feel that the right way to handle this problem is to have the impact wherever you’re aiming instead of 2 seconds ago. The combat in ESO has become much too fast for the Destruction skill.

I mean that's another solution besides shorter cast time but either way the skill obviously needs adjustments. It's not a very usable skill. They could shorten the cast time a little or they could that but they should do something. I also don't think the skill would be broken at 1.5 seconds.

LootAllTheStuff · January 10

Soarora wrote: »

The cast time really does kill the skill. Sure, could use it to pre-cast damage but I’ve not even seen sweaty players do that.

I do that all the time in solo play. If I'm in a group, however, there's always someone going full Leroy Jenkins mode, so it's often wasted. I will sometimes use it if there's a particularly large mob around a boss (such as when you have a very effective tank) because of the additional affects.

But the 2s cast time should have been reduced a long time ago.

Necrotech_Master · January 10

what i think really needs to happen is just expansion of the scribing system

why is there only ONE option per weapon line?, etc

if we had more options we wouldnt need to change/nerf/rebalance the current skills as much (as i agree that while i hate the cast times, the current destro scribe skill IS balanced for what it does)

ceruulean · January 10

We forget that in a game where blockcasting instant skills are allowed, having a 2 second cast time is a huge risk. The damage should be higher than 2 GCD spammables worth to reward the risk of being slow and vulnerable to unblocked damage and cc upfront, and if you cancel it early you lose your resources and all-or-nothing damage. It's the same logic for why templar jabs has a higher tooltip than surprise attack. And jabs is a channel so you still get partial damage depending on how long you channel it.

YandereGirlfriend · January 10

ceruulean wrote: »

We forget that in a game where blockcasting instant skills are allowed, having a 2 second cast time is a huge risk. The damage should be higher than 2 GCD spammables worth to reward the risk of being slow and vulnerable to unblocked damage and cc upfront, and if you cancel it early you lose your resources and all-or-nothing damage. It's the same logic for why templar jabs has a higher tooltip than surprise attack. And jabs is a channel so you still get partial damage depending on how long you channel it.

Most people aren't using the skill as a front-liner in PvP and most people don't block-cast in PvE. Especially casual PvE.

The skill does exactly what it says on the box. It isn't meant to be some omni-ability that solves all of the world's problems.

For a solo build that makes great use of the ability as it is, may I direct folks to Creative Excuse's YouTube channel where he uses the ability to set high scores in Vateshran Hollow.