Please don't let us hide legs - there is a real harassment issue there.

allochthons · January 8

I totally get why people want to hide legs. I want to show off my skins and body markings, too!
But if you do, please, please, change the default underwear to something less tight and revealing. Even something like the default underwear on male khajiit would be enough.

For example, I was in the IC sewer base on a female character, in a non-revealing, non-sexy outfit. Another character came and stood right on top of me. I moved away, and asked them if they were wanting to group. No answer, and they came and stood on top of me again. I moved away to a place you would NOT randomly moved to, and again they came and stood on top of me. That's when I realized they didn't have any legs equipped.

I don't know why this triggers the same thrill that exposure does, but it sure seems to. Please. Don't allow this.

Yes, I reported the player.

Gabriel_H · January 8

Well ... that's disturbing!

spartaxoxo · January 8

Yeah this and a bunch of people intentionally running around in nothing but their underwear trying to draw tons of attention to it (making inappropriate remarks to passersby, spamming emotes) is what I'm concerned about with this change. In all the games that I have played that allowed people to walk around half naked, people have used it to sexually harass others.

It draws in the crowd that see women as sexual objects to harass. I am not saying all or even most people behave that way. I don't think the game will suddenly be flooded with this type of player. I'm just saying that this is an annoyance from a particular crowd that this game currently does not appear to have in appreciable numbers and that's one of the reasons I chose it. I do not have pleasant memories about games that allow women to be overly scantily clad as a female gamer and I generally avoid them.

When I say this I'm not talking about the amount of skin shown. It's a matter of how it is presented. There's a clear difference from the default female underwear and something like the Dibella armor in terms of style, even if the amount of skin shown is not insanely different.

For me, this is the change that I feel most uneasy about. But, I know some of that is just bad experiences as a female gamer playing during the early days of gaming.

AScarlato · January 8

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

We shouldn't be limited in our options just because a small number of people may be annoying. That's what reporting and the TOS is for.

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

We shouldn't be limited in our options just because a small number of people may be annoying. That's what reporting and the TOS is for.

There's a massive difference in scale when it doesn't cost power. At least in my past experience. Again, I can't speak to others experience.

AScarlato · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

We shouldn't be limited in our options just because a small number of people may be annoying. That's what reporting and the TOS is for.

There's a massive difference in scale when it doesn't cost power. At least in my pass experience.

I still don't find this request compelling. If someone is harassing you, report them. That is what it is for.

The few people who really want to harass someone else, like I said, will do so anyway in the current system as is.

scrappy1342 · January 8

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

not condoning at all. i don't think they should be doing it. i just don't think that anything will change if they are currently doing it by just removing pants all together. i find it disturbing also, which is why i started playing male characters 25+ years ago and have not gone back. when someone does something like that to me on a female toon, i find it very disturbing. for whatever reason, if i'm on a guy, not so much. sometimes i even find it funny.

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

We shouldn't be limited in our options just because a small number of people may be annoying. That's what reporting and the TOS is for.

There's a massive difference in scale when it doesn't cost power. At least in my pass experience.

I still don't find this request compelling. If someone is harassing you, report them. That is what it is for.

The few people who really want to harass someone else, like I said, will do so anyway in the current system as is.

They won't do so anyway in the current system. It's literally decreased harassment greatly from other games that I have played that work different. I think different types of games drawing in different crowds of people is perfectly normal. When you make it easier for people to harass others, you get more harassment.

I also don't think players are being robbed because they're asked to wear clothing in public spaces.

AScarlato · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

We shouldn't be limited in our options just because a small number of people may be annoying. That's what reporting and the TOS is for.

There's a massive difference in scale when it doesn't cost power. At least in my pass experience.

I still don't find this request compelling. If someone is harassing you, report them. That is what it is for.

The few people who really want to harass someone else, like I said, will do so anyway in the current system as is.

They won't do so anyway in the current system. It's literally decreased harassment greatly from other games that I have played that work different. I think different types of games drawing in different crowds of people is perfectly normal. When you make it easier for people to harass others, you get more harassment.

I also don't think players are being robbed because they're asked to wear clothing in public spaces.

You must really underestimate the personality of people who like to sexually harass others. Havnig to remove their pants by a simple click will not deter them, as had happened in the OP. If someone has that goal, they are not deterred. I don't know how many people you think exist that suddenly would harass that otherwise wouldn't due to options like this.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 8

I admit, my first reaction to finding out they were making all slots hide-able was ‘oh, so we’re going back to the days where half of Tamriel was running around naked.’

LunaFlora · January 8

personally, i am happy we will get to hide all Outfit pieces.

i understand the post, but i think fashion should not be restricted for everyone just because some people are disrespectful.

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

We shouldn't be limited in our options just because a small number of people may be annoying. That's what reporting and the TOS is for.

There's a massive difference in scale when it doesn't cost power. At least in my pass experience.

I still don't find this request compelling. If someone is harassing you, report them. That is what it is for.

The few people who really want to harass someone else, like I said, will do so anyway in the current system as is.

They won't do so anyway in the current system. It's literally decreased harassment greatly from other games that I have played that work different. I think different types of games drawing in different crowds of people is perfectly normal. When you make it easier for people to harass others, you get more harassment.

I also don't think players are being robbed because they're asked to wear clothing in public spaces.

You must really underestimate the personality of people who like to sexually harass others. Havnig to remove their pants by a simple click will not deter them, as had happened in the OP. If someone has that goal, they are not deterred. I don't know how many people you think exist that suddenly would harass that otherwise wouldn't due to options like this.

I don't underestimate anything. I know from personal experience. I am not saying there is zero harassment here. But there's a massive difference in the volume of harassment. You're just not engaging in my point.

Different game designs make it easier or harder to harass others. And the easier it is, the greater volume you get.

One of the many things games, website makers, social media companies do is balance user freedom with user safety. This does not solely involve reporting but also prevention.

Morvan · January 8

I see things a little differently, I agree harassing people is not ok, but I also think it would require an unhealthy amount of immersion to really care if someone is being weird or not just because they don't have pants in a game.

Either way you can already run around in underwear with the game the way it is, you just need to remove your gear for it, heck, they even recently released underwear as a costume.

All in all, valid concerns.

randconfig · January 8

So just because one person might do something inappropriate, we should limit the options for everyone?

Also as a victim of said harassment and assault irl, I find it offensive to compare this, tbagging in PvP, and any other virtual game action to the real world thing.

You can literally just ask them to stop, if they don't, report them, and they will be banned. Reddit has a few examples of this, so I know this is something ZOS already takes care of with the reporting system.

allochthons · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

ShutUpitsRed · January 8

This seems a little dramatic. Annoying people are gonna be annoying no matter what lol.

AScarlato · January 8

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

randconfig · January 8

allochthons wrote: »

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

I mean, even if there was no hide legging option, people that are going to harass someone are going to harass them. Meaning it'll ultimately be up to the person being harassed to make a report. The same is true in real life.

Also speaking up, saying that you would like them to stop, will likely get them to stop. Some people may be under the assumption that it's not serious to anyone, like with tbagging in PvP, and may think they're just being silly and it's all for fun, so until someone communicates that it does bother them, they may never really consider that perspective. Like in PvP, ever since I first starting playing PvP in games, I've been tbagged, and never once did I think anything more of it than just a silly taunt. But if you're someone that has been harassed irl, and it's the first time you are tbagged in PvP, it would be very possible for you to have a very different perception/experience than I, and tbagging might understandably make you feel uncomfortable.

So all that to say, try communicating with the person doing it, chances are they'll apologize and move on, but in the rare event that they don't (like someone who's being toxic in PvP), you can just take a screenshot or make a report in-game, and ZOS will ban/suspend those players as punishment.

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

MincMincMinc · January 8

allochthons wrote: »

I totally get why people want to hide legs. I want to show off my skins and body markings, too!
But if you do, please, please, change the default underwear to something less tight and revealing. Even something like the default underwear on male khajiit would be enough.

For example, I was in the IC sewer base on a female character, in a non-revealing, non-sexy outfit. Another character came and stood right on top of me. I moved away, and asked them if they were wanting to group. No answer, and they came and stood on top of me again. I moved away to a place you would NOT randomly moved to, and again they came and stood on top of me. That's when I realized they didn't have any legs equipped.

I don't know why this triggers the same thrill that exposure does, but it sure seems to. Please. Don't allow this.

Yes, I reported the player.

Well hate to break it, but this is a you issue whether or not something bothers you. Which you did everything you could and told them to stop and reported them and then left the situation.

Having a hide function doesn't affect your issue or make it any worse. Considering someone already did it, the possibility already exists in the game if a troll wants to troll they will. Even if they change the underwear there are still collectibles people paid for like the nordic bathers towel.

If anything they probably just saw that you got annoyed at it and just like to push buttons like any other troll.

zenonuk · January 8

It would be great, if instead of "hiding" legs... they brought out more cosmetic styles that we could use in place of legs, whether that's "underwear" styles, normal skirts/kilts/trousers, etc. These new styles would simply need to show off the majority of the leg and the various skins/markings that we might be wearing.

With appropriate styles/cosmetics, there would be no need to hide the legs at all.

[EDIT: Actually, rather than hide "legs" and "chests" in full, I'd much prefer a hide "flaps" and "pads" that we get on the chest pieces... there's some great style combinations ruined by those flaps/pads. In fact, the more I think about it, the more hiding of chest/legs could be achieved simply by ensuring there's a greater selection of styles, including non-armour styles that are not costumes, with options to remove flaps/pads from existing armour styles.]

spartaxoxo · January 8

zenonuk wrote: »

It would be great, if instead of "hiding" legs... they brought out more cosmetic styles that we could use in place of legs, whether that's "underwear" styles, normal skirts/kilts/trousers, etc.

With appropriate styles/cosmetics, there would be no need to hide the legs at all.

Yeah. That's the approach I would have preferred. It lets them ensure it keeps to the existing more realistic style and also keep things that's less cheesecake and more barbarian, which attracts different crowds.

zenonuk wrote: »

[EDIT: Actually, rather than hide "legs" and "chests" in full, I'd much prefer a hide "flaps" and "pads" that we get on the chest pieces... there's some great style combinations ruined by those flaps/pads. In fact, the more I think about it, the more hiding of chest/legs could be achieved simply by ensuring there's a greater selection of styles, including non-armour styles that are not costumes, with options to remove flaps/pads from existing armour styles.]

Yesssss! Even aside from this debate, so many nice looks are ruined by random flaps on everything!

Morvan · January 8

allochthons wrote: »

So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I think it's even more absurd to assume people hiding their outfits will have that mindset, it just really boggles my mind how people can be concerned with something like that when there's a ton of disturbing adult themes in TES universe, this isn't a family friendly environment.

Like, if this kind of thing triggered me, I'd be scared to death to run across anyone using a Molag Bal polymorph, a god with a certain title that I'm unsure can even be mentioned here, and, by the way, he also wears no pants.

AScarlato · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

So you think a bored person who is into sexual harassment doesn't have the time to take off their pants? This is pretty weak.

And you think this option is going to attract a whole legion of sexual harassers who weren't interested in ESO the past decade?

I'm just going to let your arguments speak for themselves.

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

So you think a bored person who is into sexual harassment doesn't have the time to take off their pants? This is pretty weak.

And you think this option is going to attract a whole legion of sexual harassers who weren't interested in ESO the past decade?

I'm just going to let your arguments speak for themselves.

I never said a bored person cannot take off their pants, so no.

AScarlato · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

So you think a bored person who is into sexual harassment doesn't have the time to take off their pants? This is pretty weak.

And you think this option is going to attract a whole legion of sexual harassers who weren't interested in ESO the past decade?

I'm just going to let your arguments speak for themselves.

I never said a bored person cannot take off their pants, so no.

Then how much imagined additional harassment is your argument going to prevent?

LunaFlora · January 8

zenonuk wrote: »

It would be great, if instead of "hiding" legs... they brought out more cosmetic styles that we could use in place of legs, whether that's "underwear" styles, normal skirts/kilts/trousers, etc. These new styles would simply need to show off the majority of the leg and the various skins/markings that we might be wearing.

With appropriate styles/cosmetics, there would be no need to hide the legs at all.

[EDIT: Actually, rather than hide "legs" and "chests" in full, I'd much prefer a hide "flaps" and "pads" that we get on the chest pieces... there's some great style combinations ruined by those flaps/pads. In fact, the more I think about it, the more hiding of chest/legs could be achieved simply by ensuring there's a greater selection of styles, including non-armour styles that are not costumes, with options to remove flaps/pads from existing armour styles.]

i also want to hide the flaps/tassets and loincloths, but alongside hiding chests and legs.
And different underwear styles would indeed be good

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

So you think a bored person who is into sexual harassment doesn't have the time to take off their pants? This is pretty weak.

And you think this option is going to attract a whole legion of sexual harassers who weren't interested in ESO the past decade?

I'm just going to let your arguments speak for themselves.

I never said a bored person cannot take off their pants, so no.

Then how much imagined additional harassment is your argument going to prevent?

Again. I am not speaking from imagination but from personal experience. I said games that I have played with a lot of scantily clad women had more harassment than ones that don't. I don't play such games any longer because they're much easier to ignore since there are many more options on the market. And the amount of harassment I have personally experienced since making that decision has greatly decreased.

I said that I am worried the harassment in this game will increase simply because it's now easier to think to do and more attractive to a certain type of player. But I also expressed my hope that wouldn't happen here. And acknowledged that my bad memories from those earlier games are likely biasing my opinion and that it is unlikely that a lot of people would switch to a 10 year old game just because of that change.

A lot of arguments being attributed to me aren't ones that I have made. I don't run around in fear of half naked NPCs. I do not think there will be "legions," of harassers (I actually explicitly stated the opposite from jump). And I don't think that unequipping pants is some kind of magical mind control device that stops someone from harassing.

wolfie1.0. · January 8

Honestly, I would have preferred if they allowed us to hide certain parts of the armor like hip flaps and other parts of armor that are excessive.

If i wanted to run around naked I would do so.

AScarlato · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

So you think a bored person who is into sexual harassment doesn't have the time to take off their pants? This is pretty weak.

And you think this option is going to attract a whole legion of sexual harassers who weren't interested in ESO the past decade?

I'm just going to let your arguments speak for themselves.

I never said a bored person cannot take off their pants, so no.

Then how much imagined additional harassment is your argument going to prevent?

Again. I am not speaking from imagination but from personal experience. I said games that I have played with a lot of scantily clad women had more harassment than ones that don't. I don't play such games any longer because they're much easier to ignore since there are many more options on the market. And the amount of harassment I have personally experienced since making that decision has greatly decreased.

I said that I am worried the harassment in this game will increase simply because it's now easier to think to do and more attractive to a certain type of player. But I also expressed my hope that wouldn't happen here. And acknowledged that my bad memories from those earlier games are likely biasing my opinion and that it is unlikely that a lot of people would switch to a 10 year old game just because of that change.

A lot of arguments being attributed to me aren't ones that I have made. I don't run around in fear of half naked NPCs. I do not think there will be "legions," of harassers (I actually explicitly stated the opposite from jump). And I don't think that unequipping pants is some kind of magical mind control device that stops someone from harassing.

I said imagined because this topic is discussing a future ESO feature, not your past experience. Any harassment the request would supposedly prevent is imagined because it has not occurred.

I also specifically use this word personally because I don't think OP's request would have any deterrent effect on people who behave that way, since they been able to remove pants the entire existence of the game.

You also had said:

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There's a massive difference in scale when it doesn't cost power. At least in my past experience. Again, I can't speak to others experience.

But now you are saying you don't think there will be that many. So what "massive difference" are you expecting then?

spartaxoxo · January 8

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If someone wanted to harass you not wearing any clothes they can already do so now, by taking off their armor.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

so... what's to stop them from doing just what that person did and just un-equipping them?

Yes, I know. But as @spartaxoxo said, that does take away part of an armor bonus. So you have to do / undo it specifically for harassment purposes.

But Hide Legs will make it much easier, specifically, to harass. You can just use it by default.

I would have asked that they change the default underwear years ago, but there is a real Puritan feel to that which I really dislike. I'm not overly modest, nor fond of laws regarding it. I'm fine with folks running around with very little clothing.

But this, specifically, will become a problem. And the "solution," reporting the harasser, is again put on the person being harassed.

Harassment isn't an annoyance. It's harassment, and very disturbing. I didn't play for days after that original IC harassment.

So you think people who want to sexually harass think to themselves, "I'd hate to have to click once to remove my pants. I guess I won't harass today."

Or according to Spart - "I wan't going to harass anyone today, but now that I can remove my pants at the costume station rather than remove my armor, I think I will!"

This is just absurd logic to me.

The people who harass have personality problems that go beyond these options, and if they are inclined to do so will and need to be reported.

No. It's more like "I'm bored. *Looks at character that's scantily clad 24/7 anyway*. I know what I'll do."

Or

"Ohhh. Finally this game isn't "censored" anymore! That Night Market thing sounds cool too. I think I'll check it out."

Again. I never once argued that it would stop someone who was already dead set on harassing people.

I said it will increase in volume because it makes it easier to do and attracts a crowd that aren't generally interested in games like these.

Your example is absolutely not my point at all. I already acknowledged that form of harassment already exists.

So you think a bored person who is into sexual harassment doesn't have the time to take off their pants? This is pretty weak.

And you think this option is going to attract a whole legion of sexual harassers who weren't interested in ESO the past decade?

I'm just going to let your arguments speak for themselves.

I never said a bored person cannot take off their pants, so no.

Then how much imagined additional harassment is your argument going to prevent?

Again. I am not speaking from imagination but from personal experience. I said games that I have played with a lot of scantily clad women had more harassment than ones that don't. I don't play such games any longer because they're much easier to ignore since there are many more options on the market. And the amount of harassment I have personally experienced since making that decision has greatly decreased.

I said that I am worried the harassment in this game will increase simply because it's now easier to think to do and more attractive to a certain type of player. But I also expressed my hope that wouldn't happen here. And acknowledged that my bad memories from those earlier games are likely biasing my opinion and that it is unlikely that a lot of people would switch to a 10 year old game just because of that change.

A lot of arguments being attributed to me aren't ones that I have made. I don't run around in fear of half naked NPCs. I do not think there will be "legions," of harassers (I actually explicitly stated the opposite from jump). And I don't think that unequipping pants is some kind of magical mind control device that stops someone from harassing.

I said imagined because this topic is discussing a future ESO feature, not your past experience. Any harassment the request would supposedly prevent is imagined because it has not occurred.

I also specifically use this word personally because I don't think OP's request would have any deterrent effect on people who behave that way, since they been able to remove pants the entire existence of the game.

The opening post might have but you were replying to me about my own argument. So, I do feel the need to clarify my position because clearly I was not explaining myself very well if everyone thinks I somehow think that equipped pants are magic.

I am simply expressing concern about the future based off past life experiences. Time will tell if this game will be different. It very well might be. It's not a game generally attractive to such players and it's also quite old