Class Refreshes should be done 2 at a time

spartaxoxo · January 8

I get that not doing them all at once gives more opportunity to incorporate feedback, test balance, and I would bet it makes the visual refreshes better.

But, 1 at a time is too slow. It will be a couple of years before it's done. Two at a time cuts that time in half while still being a slower, more deliberate, process than all at once.

Gabriel_H · January 8

I suspect the order is because of the work ZOS feels need doing. Arcanist is last for example because it needs the least work, and the other classes (and sub-class combos) need pulling up to that level.

So it may well be that they are focussing more effort on the first 3/4 classes, and then having the bandwidth to tackle the remaining 3/4 in pairs.

Don't forget they also appear to putting wolfies, vamps, and weapon skills through the grinder, that we previosuly didn't know about.

Personally, I'd like ZOS, in their new spirit of open communication, to show their 2027 Roadmap goals, even if those goals are then pushed out somewhat.

LunaFlora · January 8

sure i bet we would all like it to be faster, ZOS included.
But game development takes time to do what they want and rushing this is not helpful

BardokRedSnow · January 8

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Gabriel_H · January 8

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Bias detected!

ines2015 · January 8

I would prefer zero at a time.

spartaxoxo · January 8

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

LunaFlora · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Templar is the first class after Season 2.
though unclear when Season 3 starts, it could be November or December.

spartaxoxo · January 8

LunaFlora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Templar is the first class after Season 2.
though unclear when Season 3 starts, it could be November or December.

Season 3 is 2027, I thought? Perhaps March?

Gabriel_H · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Templar is the first class after Season 2.
though unclear when Season 3 starts, it could be November or December.

Season 3 is 2027, I thought? Perhaps March?

Yes, it will be Feb 2027.

spartaxoxo · January 8

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Templar is the first class after Season 2.
though unclear when Season 3 starts, it could be November or December.

Season 3 is 2027, I thought? Perhaps March?

Yes, it will be Feb 2027.

Thanks!

So Templar players have been complaining about the jabs changes since U35 in July 2022. And we'll have to wait until Feb 2027 to see if they finally address that tons of us don't like it. Oof.

LunaFlora · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Templar is the first class after Season 2.
though unclear when Season 3 starts, it could be November or December.

Season 3 is 2027, I thought? Perhaps March?

yes it will likely be 2027, but likely January.
Each season is supposed to be 3 months (forgot that season 0 starts in April when posting my previous comment).

season 0 is April 2 to July 8.
And unless seasons do not start immediately after previous seasons,
season 1 and 2 should be July-October and October-January.

Gabriel_H · January 8

LunaFlora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Templar is the first class after Season 2.
though unclear when Season 3 starts, it could be November or December.

Season 3 is 2027, I thought? Perhaps March?

yes it will likely be 2027, but likely January.
Each season is supposed to be 3 months (forgot that season 0 starts in April when posting my previous comment).

season 0 is April 2 to July 8.
And unless seasons do not start immediately after previous seasons,
season 1 and 2 should be July-October and October-January.

Hmmm, just noticed the dates on that slide appear to be end dates not start dates. So Season 3 would start November 2026 unless they take a break.

Have ZOS actually confirmed there will be 4 seasons in a year, or just 3? With a break around winter?

Seraphayel · January 8

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Hmmm, just noticed the dates on that slide appear to be end dates not start dates. So Season 3 would start November 2026 unless they take a break.

Have ZOS actually confirmed there will be 4 seasons in a year, or just 3? With a break around winter?

No, Season 3 would not start this year but next. Look at the other roadmap with the content that's coming. Season Two is marked with a beginning in Autumn and an end date in Winter - this means it'll most likely come either October or November and last until January or February.

CalamityCat · January 8

After the utter mess created by subclassing, the last thing I want is another rush to revamp classes! I'd rather the devs take the time to do it properly and listen to player feedback this time, we might actually get some good class updates.

Gabriel_H · January 8

Seraphayel wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Hmmm, just noticed the dates on that slide appear to be end dates not start dates. So Season 3 would start November 2026 unless they take a break.

Have ZOS actually confirmed there will be 4 seasons in a year, or just 3? With a break around winter?

No, Season 3 would not start this year but next. Look at the other roadmap with the content that's coming. Season Two is marked with a beginning in Autumn and an end date in Winter - this means it'll most likely come either October or November and last until January or February.

Yeah the problem is that means the seasons don't run back to back.

"Season Zero: Dawn and Dusk will be the first of its kind and officially launch on April 2, 2026, and runs until July 8, 2026."

So if that September and that November are the start dates it means a gap over Summer of at least 2 months.

It also means Season 2 is only 2 months long.

BardokRedSnow · January 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If we want it done right, we're gonna have to give them time. I'd rather they take their time than rush it and mess it up yet again.

Maybe that's easy for me to say though as a DK enthusiast lmao.

Templar isn't on the map at all this year. IDK when it's coming next year, if at all. And I've been wanting jabs to get looked at for a long time now. It's kinda crazy I have to wait like what is it 3 years for Jabs to maybe feel good to use?

I get they need more time than do it all at once but surely there's a middle ground between these two extremes?

Id i like jabs for pvp and pve, I felt like it was in a good place, its in a lot of meta builds.
But then I never used templar abilities prior to subclassing.

tomofhyrule · January 8

I really do hope that we get more balancing in U49 besides "oh, we're going to keep everything else OP until we eventually get to it."

The combat balance of this game has been a disaster lately - it was usually pretty bad, but something must have happened around June of last year that just made the balance into a total mess. Strange, I seem to remember every other person on PTS posting "hey, don't do it this way because this will lead to a mess!" and all of those warnings were completely disregarded since the Combat team knew better.
(no, I'm not bitter, why do you ask?)

Still, the expectation that the game balance should remain in some state of catastrophe until the end of 2027 is... what. Like, what.

There should have been a difference between "we're balancing the Classes to account for Subclassing" and "we're visually updating every Class to give it the same amount of love as Arcanist got," namely that one of those is something that they could do one Class at a time while still doing other things and the other is a major issue that basically prevents any new additions of any new Combat-related stuff (new Classes, skill lines, Grimoires, etc.) until it's done.
And that really should have been started in U47 so it would be finishing up by now. Seriously, the fact that U47 and U48 had essentially no Combat changes because the team was just like "eh, we'll get to each of them in turn by 2028, whatever." is ridiculous.

Also they implied in the reveal that... they hadn't started Warden yet? The Class Refresh Q&A stream they did a bit ago mentioned they started doing DK around August timeframe (and yet the Class survey came out at the end of September into the beginning of October, weird...). That's implying it takes 5 months to do one Class, as the new-and-improved DK will be in U49's PTS. So if that's the case and we'll see the updated Warden in U51, that'd mean it would need to be finished by July-ish timeframe. I guess that fits with a 5-month turnaround, assuming they're waiting until DK's completely done before they start Warden - they did say DK was going to be the proof-of-concept - but then every other Class would need to be worked on in some overlapping manner.