Dwemer are never making into ESO, heck they are not making into TES futher than they already have - they are to remain a mystery and never to be seen again.

As for the rest - not opposed to new lines or classes but I don't see any coming until after the class refresh. Would be pointless to add now.

I think they'd have to be careful about how they introduce new classes being too unusual. I don't recall anything like a battle engineer (dwemer or otherwise) being something encountered in the games. There's definitely scholars and automata. But someone who is building turrets and contraptions out on the field feels too steampunk to be introduced as a class archetype that would be seen all over tamriel, in my opinion. Usually encounters with dwemer technology by non-dwemer, non-tribunal are people being only able to influence or slightly modify an already existing technology. For the most part, it's still a large mystery and difficult to control. So to see people masterfully controlling dwemer technology all over tamriel, as if it was a knowledge akin to conjuration magics, feels like it would only further separate ESO from its elder scrolls roots.

I think how they did the arcanist was poorly done because of a similar reason– being specifically aligned with the realm of apocrypha. It's oddly niche, and I don't recall even seeing people asking for that, like ZOS claimed. I'd definitely seen more requests for unarmed and one-handed magic skill lines, because those have long been in the franchise.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Dwemer are never making into ESO, heck they are not making into TES futher than they already have - they are to remain a mystery and never to be seen again.

As for the rest - not opposed to new lines or classes but I don't see any coming until after the class refresh. Would be pointless to add now.

Dwemer engineer would be any race but be a class focused on using Dwemer technology

Malyore wrote: »

I think they'd have to be careful about how they introduce new classes being too unusual. I don't recall anything like a battle engineer (dwemer or otherwise) being something encountered in the games. There's definitely scholars and automata. But someone who is building turrets and contraptions out on the field feels too steampunk to be introduced as a class archetype that would be seen all over tamriel, in my opinion. Usually encounters with dwemer technology by non-dwemer, non-tribunal are people being only able to influence or slightly modify an already existing technology. For the most part, it's still a large mystery and difficult to control. So to see people masterfully controlling dwemer technology all over tamriel, as if it was a knowledge akin to conjuration magics, feels like it would only further separate ESO from its elder scrolls roots.

I think how they did the arcanist was poorly done because of a similar reason– being specifically aligned with the realm of apocrypha. It's oddly niche, and I don't recall even seeing people asking for that, like ZOS claimed. I'd definitely seen more requests for unarmed and one-handed magic skill lines, because those have long been in the franchise.

You fight them all the time

Seraphayel wrote: »

We will not see any new classes and we will not see any more skill lines. That's what Scribing and Subclassing are for. If we'll ever get new skills, it will be via Scribing.

I would be shocked if we don't get new classes. It will be such a big selling point for any season if it includes a new class. I never created a Warden when I bought Morrowind or a Necro when I bought Elsweyr. Why go through the hassle of creating a new char and leveling them up and getting all those skyshards and guild passives and blah blah blah? The juice rarely seemed worth the squeeze unless you were some min/maxer. But I would be a lot more likely to want to own a new class if I meant I could pick and choose certain skill lines from that class to use on my existing characters.

Anilahation wrote: »

Dwemer engineer would be any race but be a class focused on using Dwemer technology

Which would require understanding said technology, which would require putting lore in about it - that isn't going to happen. Sotha Sil is as close as anyone has come to understanding Dwemer tech, and still falls short, and he's a living god and he doesn't share his secrets.

Seraphayel wrote: »

They're not doing Chapter anymore which means new classes would be Crown Store exlusives. Do you want that? Because for sure we ain't getting classes with the new season model.

Eh? The ONLY difference between the Chapters and Season Model is the length of time it takes to role out completely. That doesn't stop new classes being included.

Seraphayel wrote: »

We got exactly four updates per year for a decade. Each per quarter. There are 7 classes. Arcanist might not be part of the class revamp, so this means it will take at least 1.5 years for them to finish if they do one class per update as announced.

Yes, making 5 in a 12 month period. Hence 4/5. So yes, it may take just over a year IF they only do one per update.

they are not going to make a new class befor they are done with the upcomming class overhals, even so i think a new class is very far away, mabye new weapon lines i more likley

Hi, it's me.

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes. I want this more than anything.

Here's the deal: an Artificer would be lore appropriate, and more so than something like Arcanist or Warden or even Templar (which have really no pre-ESO lore in them).

First, absolutely not should the mystery of the Dwemer be solved. But you don't need to solve the mystery to play with it. Look at Arcanist, for example. It's possible to roleplay an Arcanist who is anything from a High Priest of Mora all the way down to someone who just found one of the Black Books. It does not require a "Thou Must Have This Level Of Deference To Hermy" clause. Even characters like Orpheon, who is one of the most powerful Arcanists in the game, has basically no tie to Hermaeus at all beyond his abilities. Besides, the existence of the Arcanist only expanded the lore of Hermaeus Mora, but did not permanently make it unable to add anything more to.
(Incidentally, the "What is an Arcanist" lorebook they included with Necrom actually made the lore for all other classes more codified, considering the following from Gabrielle: showing that the reason ESO doesn't work on a "spell schools" system like other games is that said spell schools don't exist yet.)

Second, let's address the "we don't have any examples of normal people building and using automata or other Dwemer technology themselves!" thing.

• Neramo in Stros m'Kai, who builds a Dwarven Spider named Clanker as a pet and eventually upgrades it to a Centurion by the time you make it to Sentinel. He also is involved in tuning the resonator in Greystone Quarry in Wrothgar, has his animunculi control rod as a MacGuffin in Nchuleftingth in Vvardenfell which is said to give control to the user over any constructs, and uses it again in the Scraps delve in Greymoor.
• Neramo's brother Rulorn in Stros also makes a sphere centurion from parts, but it doesn't go as well as his brother's.
• Vimy LaCroix, Neramo's associate in Nchuleftingth also is shown to be able to deactivate Dwemer traps.
• The enemy of the Nchuleftingth quest, Artisan Lenarmen, is also shown to be able to control automata and wears Dwemer armor.
• Kireth and Raynor Vanos have been shown to have some knowledge of the Dwemer as well. Her notes are more about the construction and metalwork and his focus on the soul gems they use. They also use a control rod in Bthanual in Deshaan, receive a trove of information on the Dwemer in Mzulft in Eastmarch (either their locations or an explanation of how the Dwemer used Soul Gems to power their constructs), collect information and a power core from the constructs in Zthenganaz in Wrothgar which he uses to make a Sphere Centurion.
• Malsia, a minor NPC in the Rift who uses Dwemer artifacts to explore the outer realms. It doesn't exactly go as planned for her.
• Revus Demnevanni, who can activate and adjust the Dwemer Tonal Resonator in the Gnisis Egg Mine and knows how tonal magic can influence others.
• Tharayya, who knows how to contain her ex-husband's soul in a Dwemer Pneumeria Chamber in Malatar and also can program a skeevaton to collect soul gems and use that to power a Dwarven Cannon in Frostvault.

Of course, Divayth Fyr shows that he knows everything about everything, but we'll not count him as "normal people." Also Telenger the Artificer is an Artificer, but we never see him playing with Dwemer artifacts specifcially.

But wait, you want pre-ESO people who also dabble in Dwemer technology? Bet.

• Erasmo in Redguard, who was sent to fix Dwemer devices and also uses a Dwemer wheelchair to get around
• Hasphat Antabolis in Morrowind, who is a scholar of the Dwemer despite being a member of the Fighters Guild. You retrieve the Dwemer Puzzle Box for him which he can decrypt into a key, and is a person who can help with the Mystery of the Dwarves quest for Trebonius.
• Edwinna Elbert, another scholar of the Dwemer who has you do several quests for her to collect Dwemer artifacts for her research. She is very close to being able to make her own Centurion.
• Aengoth the Jeweler in Ald'ruhn gives a Thieves Guild quest to collect Dwemer Scrap Metal to build constructs for protection. After the quest, two tame Spiders are present, implying that they were built using the Scrap Metal you found.
• Llunela Hleran, the Telvanni sorceress who helps build your Stronghold. She envisions your stronghold protected by Dwemer guardians and does so once you bring her an instruction manual.
• The Nerevarine, the player character, can also be an Artificer by obtaining the book Secrets of Dwemer Animunculi from Galom Daeus, which gives you the Summon Centurion Sphere spell, allowing you to build and use your own constructs.
• Bothiel from Oblivion, a mage who can rebuild and run the Imperial Orrery, which is of Dwemer make.
• Calcelmo from Skyrim, court mage of Markarth and a scholar of the Dwemer who studies Dwemer artifacts and has an entire Dwemer museum.
• Aicantar, his nephew, who has a Spider of his own that can be controlled with a useable Control Rod.
• Arniel Gane, a mage from the College of Winterhold who is researching Dwemer to the point where he uses one of Kagrenac's Tools and gets a first-had look at what may have caused their disappearance.
• From-Deepest-Fathoms, an Argonian in Riften who has a lexicon of the knowledge of the Dwemer, and the quest reward allows your smithing of Dwemer arms and armor to be better.
• The Dragonborn also can gain the knowledge of how to craft Dwemer arms and armor by smelting existing Dwemer alloys. It is also heavily suggested in the mainline games that Dwemer Armor is related to the outer plating of Centurions or allows people to act as centurions (as seen by the Visage of Mzund giving the player a steam breath attack).
• Legends also allowed the player to summon and control Dwemer automata.

Of course, we still have Divayth Fyr (and the Last Living Dwemer himself), but they're not exactly normal. We also have come Creation Club NPCs who are Dwemer researchers themselves, which also allow you to control some automata and eventually build your own horse Vamidium.

And this is not an exhaustive list. Point is that "Knowing and Using Dwemer Technology" is not exactly a rare thing in the mainline games, and is certainly seen more often than "shoot a green laser beam."

Now, as for the combat style... well, that also allows for some interesting things.

• Obviously, you'd have a summon line, where you could have temporary or permanent summons. That could overlap heavily with Sorcerer and Necromancer pets. It's more the other lines that could give unique combat styles, however the addition of another line of permanent pets could allow for more variety in Heavy Attack builds, most of which depend on a lightning staff and sorcerer pets.
• A traps line could be very unique for ESO. We do have some skills that give mines in the Sorc and guild lines, but we don't have a single skill which could act as a triggerable trap. I envision a skill where pushing it places the trap, and then pushing the skill a second time triggers it to go. That way to could set it up in chokepoints and allow one scout to walk over it, and then blast it when the rest of the team comes by. I could also envision something like a skill that allows you to place two pylons one after the other, and then a third trigger connects the two pylons with a beam (like the electric beams in HoF) to cut off bottlenecks in PvP.
• A Tonal Magic line, which could try to get a lot of the "I want a D&D Bard" players involved, since it is involving sound. We also see from the lore that there is a lor of soul magic going into that, which lends it very well to buffs and heals.

Third, there's the whole "but it's not something everyone should be able to do!" argument, which kind of falls apart when we consider that all of the classes are presented as things that are not general knowledge. Heck, there are currently lorebooks talking about how impressive it is to see one person breathe fire like the Dragons of old. If it were a super common thing, why is anyone impressed by it?
Besides, there are not any lorebooks talking about the 2nd Era as "the green laser rave era of Tamriel" despite that being exactly how it looks now. There is a suspension of disbelief that we as players need to use in realizing that our character is special for having the powers they do, and it's not like there are millions upon millions of people in Tamriel who have these powers.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Anilahation wrote: »

Dwemer engineer would be any race but be a class focused on using Dwemer technology

Which would require understanding said technology, which would require putting lore in about it - that isn't going to happen. Sotha Sil is as close as anyone has come to understanding Dwemer tech, and still falls short, and he's a living god and he doesn't share his secrets.

The lore literally already exist through multiple games you see npcs engaging with Dwemer technology even using it to kill you.

licenturion wrote: »

If u want classes on a regular basis you are better off playing Diablo 4. The game released midway 2023 with 5 classes and we already got 2 extra classes and another one coming within 3 months and another on the horizon announced at Blizzcon.

Compare this with ESO and wellllll...

I already play diablo 4.

Honestly for mmo with constant new classes would be ffxiv who adds 1/2 classes every expansion.

It's like the Japanese are the only ones that understand new expansions should have new classes. Wow is shifted to add new specs

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ESO's also done several patches of "just QoL and bugfixes." We know there are a lot of people on these forums who vote "ESO should just stop releasing new stuff and focus on fixing things!" like it'll solve all the problems. Well, they did. Several times. U39 was specifically said to be the "taking the time during this development cycle to focus on polishing existing in-game systems and addressing some longstanding requests" patch, and then U43 (Home Tours) patch was also mainly QoL features. Note that they did not fix all of the problems, and also they didn't really do anything to bring people in or back to the game.

I'm low-key kind of dreading that overland difficulty will be used as the big new system and not a QOL change, and that it being launched without new stuff will lead it to flopping and people blaming it for that. I'm just getting a bad feeling vibe about that.

QOL changes are really important for keeping a live service game good and people happy. But they aren't the main attraction.

They're like icing on the cake.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They're not doing Chapter anymore which means new classes would be Crown Store exlusives. Do you want that? Because for sure we ain't getting classes with the new season model.

Eh? The ONLY difference between the Chapters and Season Model is the length of time it takes to role out completely. That doesn't stop new classes being included.

Seraphayel wrote: »

We got exactly four updates per year for a decade. Each per quarter. There are 7 classes. Arcanist might not be part of the class revamp, so this means it will take at least 1.5 years for them to finish if they do one class per update as announced.

Yes, making 5 in a 12 month period. Hence 4/5. So yes, it may take just over a year IF they only do one per update.

Huh? We don't even know how they're doing the season model. And moving away from the Chapter model means they won't continue the same just with a new name. And this will definitely mean no new classes as part of the season model. It wouldn't even make sense to have new classes attached to seasons. As I said, you might get them as a Crown Store buy, but for sure not as part of the season. Otherwise they could've continued with Chapters without all the hassle.

And what do you mean making 5 in a 12 month period? They do 4 updates per year. There's no "hence 4/5". If we get the first class done for Q1, then Q2, then Q3, then Q4, then Q1 and Q2 again we might be finished with this revamp in June/July 2027. So 1.5 years, as I've said above.

I also highly doubt they're doing more than one class per update. We had patches in the past where they didn't even do any class changes at all besides some bug fixing. They ain't revamping two classes in one update while also having to make other adjustments, lol.

We have a strong idea of what the season model will be - the chapter model broken into smaller chunks that are rolled out over the year.

Update 1: Year X Q1 - Day 0
Update 2: Year X Q2 - 3 months after Day 0
Update 3: Year X Q3 - 6 months after Day 0
Update 4: Year X Q4 - 9 months after Day 0

Then in Year X+1 Q1 we get another update - being the same date minus a year as Update 1. i.e.

Update 5: Year X+1 Q1 - 12 months after Day 0

That makes 5 updates in a 12 month period.

Edit: Just for clarity, using your example of "Q1, then Q2, then Q3, then Q4, then Q1 and Q2" - that's 1.25 years, not 1.5 years.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ESO's also done several patches of "just QoL and bugfixes." We know there are a lot of people on these forums who vote "ESO should just stop releasing new stuff and focus on fixing things!" like it'll solve all the problems. Well, they did. Several times. U39 was specifically said to be the "taking the time during this development cycle to focus on polishing existing in-game systems and addressing some longstanding requests" patch, and then U43 (Home Tours) patch was also mainly QoL features. Note that they did not fix all of the problems, and also they didn't really do anything to bring people in or back to the game.

I'm low-key kind of dreading that overland difficulty will be used as the big new system and not a QOL change, and that it being launched without new stuff will lead it to flopping and people blaming it for that. I'm just getting a bad feeling vibe about that.

QOL changes are really important for keeping a live service game good and people happy. But they aren't the main attraction.

They're like icing on the cake.

Yes, that is my biggest concern as well. If they just add the difficulty option and no new areas to explore, that will get very stale very fast,

Gabriel_H wrote: »

That makes 5 updates in a 12 month period.

Not... really. Update 5 is coming in month 12 + 1 day, which is month 13 and makes it already more than a year. One year in ESO has four updates, one each quarter.

We wont get more weapons because zos doesn't want to have to redo all of the prior motif and style pages.

We wont get new classes until zos fixes the ones we have (allegedly)