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Community Update – Vengeance Testing & Cyrodiil
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SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean it’s double AP and 50 transmutes daily and still a ghost town. No idea how anyone can defend it, ZOS included.
DOA like we all knew it would be."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations10 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Anomander72 wrote: »I think it is safe to say based on prime time last night on NA server that GH blew Vengeance out in population by a wide margin. Locked, Locked, Locked to 1, 1,1 in Vengeance. Case seems closed to me. Vengeance will be another Ravenwatch
Last three nights, including Friday night, prime time PC NA has seen all three factions pop locked for Grey Host, and only one bar pop for vengeance.
If ZOS ignores this undeniable side by side popularity test it will be the same as telling us they want us to leave the game.
They've already explained that the pop bars are different because the population sizes are different.Hi all, thanks for the continued discussion here. We want to share a point of consideration as we are seeing some comments around population when talking about the in-game graphs. The in-game population bar is representative of the current participants in a campaign, relative to the max cap of that campaign. So for example, if Gray Host is at 360/360, but Vengeance is 450/900, the graph will show Gray Host as 100% capacity while Vengeance is at 50%, even though Vengeance has more players. We wanted to provide that as you continue your conversations about population overall.
@spartaxoxo There is no "zero bar" population. And poplocked Grayhost (4 bars) is still more than one bar of Vengeance, assuming that the one bar is legit and not due to the lack of zero bars. Grayhost is clearly more popular, especially when you consider that people waiting to get into poplocked Grayhost could only play Vengeance in the meantime, which would make the difference appear in favor of Vengeance by up to a factor of 2, and even then Vengeance ended up with a lower population. If you then also consider that Vengeance, as far as I'm aware, still has double AP and people on average are still choosing to play Grayhost over Vengeance, it is really telling which mode is more popular among PvPers - which is ultimately what really matters, since we also aren't designing dungeon hardmodes and trials around what PvPers think either.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Anomander72 wrote: »I think it is safe to say based on prime time last night on NA server that GH blew Vengeance out in population by a wide margin. Locked, Locked, Locked to 1, 1,1 in Vengeance. Case seems closed to me. Vengeance will be another Ravenwatch
Last three nights, including Friday night, prime time PC NA has seen all three factions pop locked for Grey Host, and only one bar pop for vengeance.
If ZOS ignores this undeniable side by side popularity test it will be the same as telling us they want us to leave the game.
They've already explained that the pop bars are different because the population sizes are different.Hi all, thanks for the continued discussion here. We want to share a point of consideration as we are seeing some comments around population when talking about the in-game graphs. The in-game population bar is representative of the current participants in a campaign, relative to the max cap of that campaign. So for example, if Gray Host is at 360/360, but Vengeance is 450/900, the graph will show Gray Host as 100% capacity while Vengeance is at 50%, even though Vengeance has more players. We wanted to provide that as you continue your conversations about population overall.
spartaxoxo There is no "zero bar" population. And poplocked Grayhost (4 bars) is still more than one bar of Vengeance, assuming that the one bar is legit and not due to the lack of zero bars. Grayhost is clearly more popular, especially when you consider that people waiting to get into poplocked Grayhost could only play Vengeance in the meantime, which would make the difference appear in favor of Vengeance by up to a factor of 2, and even then Vengeance ended up with a lower population. If you then also consider that Vengeance, as far as I'm aware, still has double AP and people on average are still choosing to play Grayhost over Vengeance, it is really telling which mode is more popular among PvPers - which is ultimately what really matters, since we also aren't designing dungeon hardmodes and trials around what PvPers think either.
When I went into Vengeance it was pretty active. I'm sure ZOS has the numbers.3 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »When I went into Vengeance it was pretty active. I'm sure ZOS has the numbers.
If it's blurry is it really a number?
~couldn't resist
Edited by StihlReign on December 16, 2025 2:12AM"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS0 -
Lucasl402✭✭✭✭The side by side test showed that vengeance is not going to be viable. Not enough people will play it, even if it's the only option.
I expect ZOS to support the PvP I've been playing for a decade. That's the game I purchased, ZOS is still selling, and it's their job to support the game they sell.
I expect ZOS to use the information they gathered from vengeance to improve performance in Grey Host just like they said they were going to do from the onset.
Edited by Lucasl402 on December 16, 2025 4:01PM10 -
Lucasl402✭✭✭✭
....you're assuming and hoping.
And that doesn't change the fact that ZOS has a responsibility to fully support the products they're still selling today, and GH is part of that product.
Edited by Lucasl402 on December 16, 2025 4:43PM4 -
aetherix8✭✭✭✭
....you're assuming and hoping.
And that doesn't change the fact that ZOS has a responsibility to fully support the products they're still selling today, and GH is part of that product.
Lol no, I was actually participating in Veng almost every day (unlike you judging from your posts) so I know how many we were, and I kept my eye on both campaigns' bars.PC EU - V4hn11 -
JohnRingo✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Anomander72 wrote: »I think it is safe to say based on prime time last night on NA server that GH blew Vengeance out in population by a wide margin. Locked, Locked, Locked to 1, 1,1 in Vengeance. Case seems closed to me. Vengeance will be another Ravenwatch
Last three nights, including Friday night, prime time PC NA has seen all three factions pop locked for Grey Host, and only one bar pop for vengeance.
If ZOS ignores this undeniable side by side popularity test it will be the same as telling us they want us to leave the game.
They've already explained that the pop bars are different because the population sizes are different.Hi all, thanks for the continued discussion here. We want to share a point of consideration as we are seeing some comments around population when talking about the in-game graphs. The in-game population bar is representative of the current participants in a campaign, relative to the max cap of that campaign. So for example, if Gray Host is at 360/360, but Vengeance is 450/900, the graph will show Gray Host as 100% capacity while Vengeance is at 50%, even though Vengeance has more players. We wanted to provide that as you continue your conversations about population overall.
spartaxoxo There is no "zero bar" population. And poplocked Grayhost (4 bars) is still more than one bar of Vengeance, assuming that the one bar is legit and not due to the lack of zero bars. Grayhost is clearly more popular, especially when you consider that people waiting to get into poplocked Grayhost could only play Vengeance in the meantime, which would make the difference appear in favor of Vengeance by up to a factor of 2, and even then Vengeance ended up with a lower population. If you then also consider that Vengeance, as far as I'm aware, still has double AP and people on average are still choosing to play Grayhost over Vengeance, it is really telling which mode is more popular among PvPers - which is ultimately what really matters, since we also aren't designing dungeon hardmodes and trials around what PvPers think either.
When I went into Vengeance it was pretty active. I'm sure ZOS has the numbers.
Just take the Vengeance “L” and move on from this stale argument please1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Anomander72 wrote: »I think it is safe to say based on prime time last night on NA server that GH blew Vengeance out in population by a wide margin. Locked, Locked, Locked to 1, 1,1 in Vengeance. Case seems closed to me. Vengeance will be another Ravenwatch
Last three nights, including Friday night, prime time PC NA has seen all three factions pop locked for Grey Host, and only one bar pop for vengeance.
If ZOS ignores this undeniable side by side popularity test it will be the same as telling us they want us to leave the game.
They've already explained that the pop bars are different because the population sizes are different.Hi all, thanks for the continued discussion here. We want to share a point of consideration as we are seeing some comments around population when talking about the in-game graphs. The in-game population bar is representative of the current participants in a campaign, relative to the max cap of that campaign. So for example, if Gray Host is at 360/360, but Vengeance is 450/900, the graph will show Gray Host as 100% capacity while Vengeance is at 50%, even though Vengeance has more players. We wanted to provide that as you continue your conversations about population overall.
spartaxoxo There is no "zero bar" population. And poplocked Grayhost (4 bars) is still more than one bar of Vengeance, assuming that the one bar is legit and not due to the lack of zero bars. Grayhost is clearly more popular, especially when you consider that people waiting to get into poplocked Grayhost could only play Vengeance in the meantime, which would make the difference appear in favor of Vengeance by up to a factor of 2, and even then Vengeance ended up with a lower population. If you then also consider that Vengeance, as far as I'm aware, still has double AP and people on average are still choosing to play Grayhost over Vengeance, it is really telling which mode is more popular among PvPers - which is ultimately what really matters, since we also aren't designing dungeon hardmodes and trials around what PvPers think either.
When I went into Vengeance it was pretty active. I'm sure ZOS has the numbers.
Just take the Vengeance “L” and move on from this stale argument please
I mean if Vengeance caps at 900 people then 33% is 297. So 1 bar in Vengeance is a bigger amount of people than 1 bar in Grey Host. 297 people is equivalent to round about 80% of Grey Host, if I'm understanding what they said about pop caps correctly.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 17, 2025 6:47AM2 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Anomander72 wrote: »I think it is safe to say based on prime time last night on NA server that GH blew Vengeance out in population by a wide margin. Locked, Locked, Locked to 1, 1,1 in Vengeance. Case seems closed to me. Vengeance will be another Ravenwatch
Last three nights, including Friday night, prime time PC NA has seen all three factions pop locked for Grey Host, and only one bar pop for vengeance.
If ZOS ignores this undeniable side by side popularity test it will be the same as telling us they want us to leave the game.
They've already explained that the pop bars are different because the population sizes are different.Hi all, thanks for the continued discussion here. We want to share a point of consideration as we are seeing some comments around population when talking about the in-game graphs. The in-game population bar is representative of the current participants in a campaign, relative to the max cap of that campaign. So for example, if Gray Host is at 360/360, but Vengeance is 450/900, the graph will show Gray Host as 100% capacity while Vengeance is at 50%, even though Vengeance has more players. We wanted to provide that as you continue your conversations about population overall.
spartaxoxo There is no "zero bar" population. And poplocked Grayhost (4 bars) is still more than one bar of Vengeance, assuming that the one bar is legit and not due to the lack of zero bars. Grayhost is clearly more popular, especially when you consider that people waiting to get into poplocked Grayhost could only play Vengeance in the meantime, which would make the difference appear in favor of Vengeance by up to a factor of 2, and even then Vengeance ended up with a lower population. If you then also consider that Vengeance, as far as I'm aware, still has double AP and people on average are still choosing to play Grayhost over Vengeance, it is really telling which mode is more popular among PvPers - which is ultimately what really matters, since we also aren't designing dungeon hardmodes and trials around what PvPers think either.
When I went into Vengeance it was pretty active. I'm sure ZOS has the numbers.
Just take the Vengeance “L” and move on from this stale argument please
I mean if Vengeance caps at 900 people then 33% is 297. So 1 bar in Vengeance is a bigger amount of people than 1 bar in Grey Host. 297 people is equivalent to round about 80% of Grey Host, if I'm understanding what they said about pop caps correctly.
But the thing people are pointing out is that 1 bar Vengeance could be around 80% of GH. But we don't know if it is.
Vengeance will show 1 bar if it's got 80% of a full GH campaign, or 10% of a full GH campaign. Either way, that first in the "0-297" population.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tomofhyrule wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Anomander72 wrote: »I think it is safe to say based on prime time last night on NA server that GH blew Vengeance out in population by a wide margin. Locked, Locked, Locked to 1, 1,1 in Vengeance. Case seems closed to me. Vengeance will be another Ravenwatch
Last three nights, including Friday night, prime time PC NA has seen all three factions pop locked for Grey Host, and only one bar pop for vengeance.
If ZOS ignores this undeniable side by side popularity test it will be the same as telling us they want us to leave the game.
They've already explained that the pop bars are different because the population sizes are different.Hi all, thanks for the continued discussion here. We want to share a point of consideration as we are seeing some comments around population when talking about the in-game graphs. The in-game population bar is representative of the current participants in a campaign, relative to the max cap of that campaign. So for example, if Gray Host is at 360/360, but Vengeance is 450/900, the graph will show Gray Host as 100% capacity while Vengeance is at 50%, even though Vengeance has more players. We wanted to provide that as you continue your conversations about population overall.
spartaxoxo There is no "zero bar" population. And poplocked Grayhost (4 bars) is still more than one bar of Vengeance, assuming that the one bar is legit and not due to the lack of zero bars. Grayhost is clearly more popular, especially when you consider that people waiting to get into poplocked Grayhost could only play Vengeance in the meantime, which would make the difference appear in favor of Vengeance by up to a factor of 2, and even then Vengeance ended up with a lower population. If you then also consider that Vengeance, as far as I'm aware, still has double AP and people on average are still choosing to play Grayhost over Vengeance, it is really telling which mode is more popular among PvPers - which is ultimately what really matters, since we also aren't designing dungeon hardmodes and trials around what PvPers think either.
When I went into Vengeance it was pretty active. I'm sure ZOS has the numbers.
Just take the Vengeance “L” and move on from this stale argument please
I mean if Vengeance caps at 900 people then 33% is 297. So 1 bar in Vengeance is a bigger amount of people than 1 bar in Grey Host. 297 people is equivalent to round about 80% of Grey Host, if I'm understanding what they said about pop caps correctly.
But the thing people are pointing out is that 1 bar Vengeance could be around 80% of GH. But we don't know if it is.
Vengeance will show 1 bar if it's got 80% of a full GH campaign, or 10% of a full GH campaign. Either way, that first in the "0-297" population.
This was in response to someone seeming to claim that Vengeance was not active during the time period when I personally went inside and tried it for myself. The whole 0% thing cannot be used to discount people's personal experience with the mode just because when someone else checked there was often 1 bar. The bars don't mean the same number of people. Part of determining if it was viable is if people participated. I don't have the ability to know the full numbers. I can only relay my personal experience. And my personal experience was that at the time I joined in, it was active.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 17, 2025 8:06PM2
