I'm tired of peoples attempts to move the goalpost.

Many core issues has been addressed a thousand times already.

This thread is about declining playerbase, which is also a core issue.

No offense, but sometimes it's better for some people to find threads that are more likely to them

If the house is burning down and the structure is collapsing it doesn't matter if 3 people in the house enjoyed the wallpaper.

Jesus Christ.

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

And when crossplay will finally arrive the console servers might be already that empty to the point where crossplay isn't needed anymore.

It's not like ESO is the only game out there. Even if we all loved this game for what it is or was...There are still a ton of new games every year and when people get bored people move on.
When people feel like being ignored then people move on.
People feel like not getting any value in return for their investment. Yea... People move on.
Games bugged into oblivion with no fixes in sight? Yea.. People also move on.

This isn't my first rodeo. In 35 years of gaming I witnessed games and studios rising and falling for the same reasons.

Couldnt agree more.

SilverBride wrote: »

Then we should be making threads about the core issues and addressing them directly.

The declinging population is a symptom and a core issue.
And it‘s caused by a lot of issues wich have been adressed often and people like you come and gaslight the adressing people to feed zos narrative.

The wide mass quits because:


- U35
- U46
- bad writing
- no good new content
- overland difficulty being bad
- subclassing being bad how its introduced, code word inbalance
- whiting wall was dissapointed
- zos lying to us and pushing the destruction path called Vengeance instead of fixing their game
- AI moderation and false bans
- performance issues
- bugs wich exist for years
- pts being ingnored
- bad or intransparent communication
- Zos being slow and not reacting, they were out of touch with their own playerbase for to long now and have caused massive damage to the game.

etc pp i cant remember all out of my mind.
Im sure people have different reasons and a lot of then tried to be hered.

But whenever we have these representing posts, by some brave people who speak for the 99% who dont use the forum and LITERALLY JUST QUIT, you will have some noisy people who come and argue the hell against you, as if you personally attacked them.

And now after all that the population has decreased and this makes it aswell a next spot on the list why people are quitting, because people who threat this game here not as a single player game, feel the difference in what it used to be and rather leave the sinking ship.

Like my whole pvp guild (35 people) has quit, because pvp is empty.

We are all endgame, we have done everything in the game and only pve for pvp at this point.
Pvp is dead, on a friday we had 1 bar each, so we dont play.

And i can tell you, most of us have stopped our eso plus.
And so the cycle goes on and becomes bigger.

After all that im still masochistic enough to come here and waste my time, with the little hope stuff becomes better.

But unless they dont announce crossplay in january, wich i doubt HIGHLY, my server is kinda dead for multiplayer activity and so is the game then for me.
I refuse to start again on a sinking ship.
And this ^ is what the game is right now.

I also find it off-putting for someone to come into a thread and be like, "I don't have that issue, so this thread shouldn't exist / you should make other ones."

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

I'm tired of peoples attempts to move the goalpost.

Many core issues has been addressed a thousand times already.

This thread is about declining playerbase, which is also a core issue.

No offense, but sometimes it's better for some people to find threads that are more likely to them

Of course, I think it's a concern to everyone that the population shifts so dramatically. I don't think most players want the game to lose players.

However, it is also important to address how we got here. All the mistakes along the road and how those things contribute, and in many cases, still contribute to lower player numbers.

Honestly, for any long term player the current state is no surprise because of how much of a mess things have been for years.

There's rarely been any smooth transitions into any of the new systems added to the game, and that itself is worrying.. No one wants to feel like once the next patch cycle comes around, zos is gonna just flip the game board around and start playing an entirely new game, but some cycles feel like that.

CP 2.0, hybridization, update 35, and subclassing patch cycles to list some examples.

The reason I am saying all of this is because, zos keeps flipping the script on players in such a way that it feels like if someone just flips over a chess board as you get the game going. You start adjusting to new systems just for the focus to completely change.

That plus, if you do not completely finish the job, like with hybridization(which still isn't finished with consumable items), then you make problems much worse by compounding the problems doubly. Its hard to feel motivated when the game feels so disorganized and they at times just toss out systems that people are already content with for something entirely new. That plus the fact it happens so often just makes it worse.

Declining player numbers is absolutely a problem but I think that's an indication of how the game direction feels poor to many people and that it hasn't been getting better. The first thing we can do is to try and address these negatives before we can implement permanent changes that might make the mess worse. Because if we add MORE systems and it ends up bad, that will just make the game progressively worse and see more players leave.

Thanks for proving my point about people moving goalposts.

Edit:
Let me elaborate more because I never was attempting to move the goal post. However, I think these problems do not exist in a vacuum. These are compounding problems as I mentioned in my above post.
A bad update drops and players quit the game and that feeds into more players quitting the game. These are not unrelated phenomenon, it's a cyclical effect. Of course, the falling player counts is problematic, but at the same time, we shouldn't pretend like the bad patch cycles and features that came rushed/broken contributed nothing to phenomenon.


I mean ZOS has recently admitted to the fact that subclassing caused issues with game balance and are now trying to rectify that, and now people are worried of what new problems the class refresh is then going to bring the game. That too, is concerning, especially if they end up breaking classes in any way. I'm sure players might quit if their favorite class suddenly becomes nonfunctional. No one wants to wait 6 months for it to get fixed, like how subclassing sat in its current state for months before zos took action.
This is how it is related, these are not isolated issues that exist in a vacuum.

This is like asking "what came first the chicken or the egg". Did the bad updates cause players leaving or did players just leave? It doesn't really matter what the answer is though, because both are bad.
These are BOTH concerning problems. It's not a bad thing to acknowledge this fact, much of which ZOS themselves. say they are working on. And if zos are working on these problems people are wondering whether they need to prepare for the worst (the game breaking more)

Whichever we think is the more pressing problem, means little. It's still going to be a potential problem as zos is actively working on re-doing these systems. A problem is still a problem, and it doesn't go away, it only makes the game worse. I can be concerned about declining player numbers and broken, unfinished, or rushed systems. There is no contradiction there.

"ESO´s Population is lowered to 2017 level Bookmark"

If core Elder Scroll fan's population are getting low, then it's a problem.
Otherwise, it's not problem at all.

AvalonRanger wrote: »

"ESO´s Population is lowered to 2017 level Bookmark"

If core Elder Scroll fan's population are getting low, then it's a problem.
Otherwise, it's not problem at all.

Ummm... you know that fewer players = less money for ZOS.

How is this not a problem if it impacts future progress and the financial viability of the game?

Most of the latest news is on social media and I just don’t do that, so I might be behind the times.

Last I heard the devs were thinking about crossplay, not that they were actually making code changes and implementing it now. So putting your hopes on that to solve the declining player numbers would not be extremely optimistic at this point. I am afraid that the timeline is much too short for that to be a fix for consoles at least.

I can speak to the numbers in Gray Host Cyrodiil being low except for late night on west coast, meaning after dinner time which would be 9pm or later for east coast. That is the most urgent problem at this time. The insistence on the devs to not address the problems with sets like Rush of Agony and the Warden charm being run by multiple players in ball groups is primarily the reason in my opinion. If someone can make them see what damage they have wrought among long-time PvP players by ignoring the calls for help that forced them to leave then maybe that can be addressed.

For trading on console, the shortened listing time drove prices which were already low compared to PC to the point where it is hard to make any gold and killed many of the larger guilds and lowered bidding prices to the point where many guilds with little inventory are in capital city traders, and has effectively ruined the economy. I can make more gold per week on my crafters from the gold by doing daily crafting writs than selling master writs for pennies on the dollar (I don’t sell gold mats, I need them).

Their forced changes for these things like the trader listings were driven by the need to add more to future updates, but it is killing the game for us. I guess they are more focused on PC because they have no insight into the console space. It may be already be too late to save things for us. The ever revolving door of new players who come and go may be all who are left.

randconfig wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

The sample size is plenty large enough that it's statistically significant, and for these players to stop using Steam to play ESO, they would be required to re-purchase the game, so that's not likely to be the reason for the declining numbers either.

This may very well be a significant factor for what APEARS to be a declining population. If tens of thousands of consumers have multiple accounts it may just be too much for them to constantly play ALL of their accounts. They may dedicate themselves to one PRIMARY account and then login to their accounts occasionally as their 'needs' or interest arise.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

Oh yeah. I am a relatively new player to ESO only being here for twenty-five months and I have noticed NO significant population swings outside of the normal seasonal ones in the Spring - when the weather outside improves for people to spend more time outdoors, in the late Summer - when the school year begins and around this time of year - when Christmas affords A LOT of time to play.

I can't speak for 2017. But there have been quite a few DLC released since that year. SO maybe the old timer ESO players only come back to CONSUMER new content then leave until ZOS cooks up something new for them to burn through in four hours. /shrug

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

This may very well be a significant factor for what APEARS to be a declining population. If tens of thousands of consumers have multiple accounts it may just be too much for them to constantly play ALL of their accounts. They may dedicate themselves to one PRIMARY account and then login to their accounts occasionally as their 'needs' or interest arise.

Regardless it doesn't change the fact that not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

Oh yeah. I am a relatively new player to ESO only being here for twenty-five months and I have noticed NO significant population swings outside of the normal seasonal ones in the Spring - when the weather outside improves for people to spend more time outdoors, in the late Summer - when the school year begins and around this time of year - when Christmas affords A LOT of time to play.

I can't speak for 2017. But there have been quite a few DLC released since that year. SO maybe the old timer ESO players only come back to CONSUMER new content then leave until ZOS cooks up something new for them to burn through in four hours. /shrug

We are already at a point where only empirical data matters, not anecdotal evidence.

​Do you have any verifiable proof that multi-account usage is happening on such a scale that it significantly distorts Steam trend lines? Furthermore do you have any official statistics for Epic or ESO launcher based logins to support your claim?

​Without data your argument remains pure speculation and doesn't refute the visible downward trend.

Valve provides these statistics for a reason. These statistics are the industry standard for tracking the health and longevity of live service games and as already elaborated these statistics are used by million & billion dollar companies to validate their investments.
Additional to that Valve wouldn't waste resources on providing these data if it would be irrelevant.

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

But I'm not going to say that our guilds are losing members when they aren't.

Well, glad your guild is in a probably fairly unique bubble where not a single one has left the game lol.

Players come and go like they do in any guild, and we purge inactive players regularly, but we have no problem filling our slots again.

But why are we saying something needs to be done about a population decline when they have announced they are working on crossplay?

because crossplay is like trying to heal broken leg with band aid

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

Hard cope, everyone is leaving brosky. I uninstalled 6 months ago.

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Just saying the population is dropping doesn't address any underlying problems.

It's a fundamental step forward that we can now agree on the fact that the population drop is real, that Steam data is legit, that anecdotal evidence can't negate empirical trends and that the underlying problems of ESO have led to a significant decline of the population that is measurable down to 2017 level.

I am still not convinced about the accuracy of the Steam charts but this does bring up another question. From what I have seen and read the biggest drops seem to be on consoles and not nearly as pronounced on PCNA. Why would that be if we are all unhappy about a lot of the same things? Or is it just more pronounced because they are lower population to begin with?

@xR3ACTORx why are you picking a fight with @SilverBride? “It’s all said now.”

If it’s all said, why are you still talking? Why even reply to what she wrote, when we both know population is lower than ever. It speaks for itself.

Man up and stop trying to bully her for her opinion.

Beyond any ESO specific problem, MMORPGs populations in general are in decline, of course Steam charts do represent that as well, and people will also notice other things like guild activity, PvP population, queue times, etc.

If you're just going around playing on overland it might not be as noticeable since zones are divided into instances, so you might go "I'm seeing as much people as I ever see" unaware that there might be less instances up now, to support a smaller population.

And even if we assume Steam charts don't represent the majority of the playerbase on PC —which I don't think would be true— there's still little to no reason to think whatever is making people drop the game on Steam is non-existent everywhere else, it's clear that all servers across all platforms are diminishing in numbers.

ESO population is always at its highest after a chapter release, and then will drop significantly through the rest of the year, I feel like their new yearly format made this worse, they attracted less people and retained even less, so they do need to work on something exciting and find a solution to retain the playerbase they briefly get every year.