ESO´s Population is lowered to 2017 level

fizzybeef · December 16

While im sure i will have people like ''noo there are plenty of people still playing'' - yes there are still people but overall the population on ALL servers is low and specially on PC wich is the whole European and American servers, we have a great indicator.

While console servers, specially EU are reportedly long time already under drastical low population, it becomes more and more clear, the same is happening fast on PC and the playerbase is shrinking.

It´s really time for ZOS to finally wake up, maybe overthink the priorities and stomp some pointless and unaccpeted projects like vengeance, to finally put ressources into fixing the game, bring players back and together (crossplay FAST) and fix the massive trouble wich was caused with subclassing, whiting wall event and the descisions wich brought us here to this point.

I love the game and it hurts me to see it in such a bad state. Honestly, do something please.

Horace-Wimp · December 16

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

karthrag_inak · December 16

not this again. in 2017 eso was not on epic launcher. now it is.

Gankform · December 16

Check your friend list and your guilds and tell me how many have left in recent years...we don't need graphs to understand that the game is not going well

fizzybeef · December 16

Gankform wrote: »

Check your friend list and your guilds and tell me how many have left in recent years...we don't need graphs to understand that the game is not going well

Literally this. Just check the games population in zones outside of events and prime time´s aswell.

How many people are online in guilds in the evening etc. pp.

xR3ACTORx · December 16

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

🥱🥱🥱

Not everyone plays on epic or eso launcher. Steam is the only one who provided player counts so steam data is absolutly valid and I'm tired of people who pretend it ain't.

Steam is the market leader in it's business with a market share of 75%. Epic is not even close to Steam.

I remember someone once said times are bad for ESO, when Fallout 76 has more steam players then ESO.

Right now according to their data more people on Steam are into Fallout 76 then into ESO

Sarannah · December 16

So, basically pre-covid numbers. Not strange! But I do agree ZOS needs to step up their game, as this game could be the biggest MMO on the market if handled properly.

But personally I am not seeing a lower population. In fact, going out questing in the world I see more players than ever before. Finding an IA run in the groupfinder is also very fast and easy nowadays. Farming the same dungeon over and over(was farming a gear set) I ran into different players each time, if the population was low I would have ran into the same player(s) multiple times.

PS: Playing through a third party launcher isn't a smart thing to do, regardless of which party it is(steam/epic/etc). If any of the services has issues, you won't be able to play. (many PC players know this already)

Cooperharley · December 16

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

This is such an exhausting take.

You're right. 90% of people play on the epic games launcher right?? It's used as trend data and is ABSOLUTELY relevant. You can assume a relative percentage of players on the ESO launcher, epic, console, etc. are likely doing that as well. Pair this subjectively with how many people in your guild are logged on at any given time. What about cyro population? What about dungeon finder queue times? Let's use our critical thinking here.

Lucasl402 · December 16

Most of what ZOS has done since and including U35 has been detrimental to the game. U35 killed the end game PvE community and showed how little ZOS will respond to customer feedback. The 10 year anniversary event was a disaster and the 2025 content was even worse. And vengeance is killing what's left of the PvP community. That leaves only the casual questers who don't sub, rarely buy crowns, and only log on a few times/week if that. ESO can not survive on that.

If everyone at ZOS isn't in crisis mode right now they're even more out of touch than their harshest critics claim they are.

Hawco10 · December 16

A blind man can see what’s going on. What have you done to this game Zos? Been in Cyrodill lately ? It’s terrible. Sewers are empty, in Dungeons its just beam , beam and more beam.
I used to pay lip service to all the nay sayers to be honest, used to think it was all just old wives tales. But not anymore. Been here since day one and I’m now getting seriously concerned about the state of this game.
Sure, there’ll always be people who’ll do the usual “Game has never been better, so many people play when I’m on” etc etc, and they’ll probably be playing with a handful of other people while watching the tumbleweed drift by…..
Anyway, I’ve no idea how they fix this, I mean where does one start? It’s human nature to avoid admitting mistakes and so I just can’t see them rolling anything back etc, and would that even be enough to raise the population again ?

wolfdoggie_ESO · December 16

I personally stopped playing due to the animation changes~ my primary skill is imbue weapon and it's been broken for over a month. If it wasn't so difficult and non-user friendly to change builds maybe I would but it isn't. They mention any plans to fix it yet?

Furyous · December 16

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

not this again. in 2017 eso was not on epic launcher. now it is.

📊 How Statistics Work

When people want to know what is happening in a big group, they do not ask every single person. That would take too long. Instead, they look at a smaller group, called a sample. If the sample is chosen the same way each time, it shows the bigger trend.

Think about school. If a teacher wants to know if kids like pizza day, she does not need to ask the whole school. She can ask one class, and if most of them like it, that tells her what the rest probably think too.

ESO works the same way. Not everyone plays through Steam, but Steam players are one class we can see. Their numbers go up and down just like the rest of the game.

If the company does not share the full numbers, the only fair choice is to use the numbers we do have. Steam Charts are public and easy to track. They show us whether the game is growing or shrinking.

So Steam is not the whole school, but it is enough to see the trend. Ignoring it means ignoring the only clear evidence we have.

Gabriel_H · December 16

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

🥱🥱🥱

Not everyone plays on epic or eso launcher. Steam is the only one who provided player counts so steam data is absolutly valid and I'm tired of people who pretend it ain't.

Steam is the market leader in it's business with a market share of 75%. Epic is not even close to Steam.

I remember someone once said times are bad for ESO, when Fallout 76 has more steam players then ESO.

Right now according to their data more people on Steam are into Fallout 76 then into ESO

It's valid, but it also has context that is constantly being missed. So lets play with numbers.

If Steam in 2017 had

Furyous wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

not this again. in 2017 eso was not on epic launcher. now it is.

📊 How Statistics Work

When people want to know what is happening in a big group, they do not ask every single person. That would take too long. Instead, they look at a smaller group, called a sample. If the sample is chosen the same way each time, it shows the bigger trend.

Think about school. If a teacher wants to know if kids like pizza day, she does not need to ask the whole school. She can ask one class, and if most of them like it, that tells her what the rest probably think too.

ESO works the same way. Not everyone plays through Steam, but Steam players are one class we can see. Their numbers go up and down just like the rest of the game.

If the company does not share the full numbers, the only fair choice is to use the numbers we do have. Steam Charts are public and easy to track. They show us whether the game is growing or shrinking.

So Steam is not the whole school, but it is enough to see the trend. Ignoring it means ignoring the only clear evidence we have.

Your analogy is flawed. Steam is not a sample of kids in a school - it is a different school.

Yes, Steam holds 70 - 75% of PC Digital distribution market share, the digital distribution itself being about 90% of distribution. Distribution is also not the same as playing. Anyone not launching through Steam, even though the game is purchased on Steam will not count towards the statistics.

So:

How many were playing on Steam who are now on another laucher?
How many are launching through Steam now and then?
How many new players are buying direct now and then?

Steam numbers are indicative but they are not the whole and therefore any sample of the part is skewed.

"They show us whether the game is growing or shrinking." - They show us whether those launching the game through Steam is growing or shrinking.

AScarlato · December 16

Anecdotal but among the people I play with interest in ESO is at an all-time low with my guilds nearly dead most of the time.

I'm sure people will log in for event tickets though for the free house, so that will at least get some people logging in at least for dailies.

licenturion · December 16

I used to be very active. But I finished all quests, maxed out all zones, skill lines and companions and completed the sticker book. So I don't really play either except for 5 minutes for endeavors

I am waiting for content to play again. They really need to focus more on actual content again instead of events or random stuff.

And if I want to PvP I play Overwatch, Marvel Rivals, Battlefield, Call Of Duty or other games.

SeaGtGruff · December 16

The number of players who are playing a game concurrently can go down if a lot of players are spending less and less time in that game, even though they might actually still be playing the game as many days per week as they used to.

We know there are players who spend less time in ESO than they used to, because they've said so; they apparently log in, grab the free daily login reward, maybe do the daily crafting writs, maybe do the endeavors if they can be done really fast, then log out and go play something else.

We also know there are players who've stopped playing ESO entirely, because they've said so.

I'm not saying that the drop in concurrent players isn't a reflection of people leaving the game; I'm just saying I think it's also a reflection of people spending less time in the game.

I think that's also why the number of concurrent players tends to go up for a time whenever new content gets released, especially if the new content is associated with fan-favorite zones (such as the peak that occurred back when Greymoor was released); it's partly because new players join the game, and old players return to the game, but it's also because existing players spend more time in the game while they play through the new content, hence there's more overlapping of different people's concurrent playing sessions throughout the day.

Anyway, I think the "facts" shown by Steamcharts are more complex than just "people are leaving the game." But playing the game less without leaving it entirely is also a problem, so I'm not saying that ZOS should just shrug at the numbers.

As far as player guilds and friends lists, I'm in some player guilds on PCNA and PCEU which are still close to being full and which kick inactive players. They lose members pretty regularly, but they also gain new members. That isn't something new; it's always been the case.

I'm also in some player guilds that are pretty much dead-- although, again, that isn't something new, because they've been "mostly dead" for many years now.

So with player guilds, it really depends on the guild masters and guild officers, because if those people leave the game, or just cut back drastically on their active participation within the game, then the guild is going to die. But if the guild master and the guild officers are active and enthusiastic and helpful, then the guild is likely to thrive and keep attracting new members.

As for my friends list, the vast majority of players on it who've stopped playing ESO did not leave the game yesterday, or last week, or last month, or even last year-- they left several years ago, meaning 5 or more years ago. Many of them seemed to be new players who were just giving ESO a try, and who left pretty soon afterward when they realized that ESO wasn't for them for whatever reasons.

I've also seen people who used to play ESO, then left, and who have now come back. One of the streamers I follow recently came back to ESO after having left it many years ago-- long before people ever got upset over Vengeance, or subclassing, or the changes to Battlegrounds, or the addition of Tales of Tribute, or U35. If I'm not mistaken, he left before Antiquities got added back with Greymoor's release, although I might be wrong about that (the whole Antiquities system seemed to be new to him). But in any case, the reason I mention him is because he's become very active in playing ESO again, and he's been enjoying the game a lot since coming back, despite all of the things that a lot of people have been complaining about and saying they're going to be the death of ESO.

Players come, and players go. And the playing sessions of people who do stick with a game are going to wax and wane for various reasons. It will always be so, especially with MMOs.

Personally, my biggest hope for ESO is that we'll see more of Tamriel added into the game, maybe even some lore-significant locations outside of Tamriel-- although I'd prefer to see more of Tamriel added first, such as more of Hammerfell before, say, a visit to Akavir. I mean, seeing someplace like Akavir would be really cool, but there are still a number of locations on the map of Tamriel which haven't been added into the game yet. And I'd love to see more content get added to existing areas, giving us new incentives to keep visiting those places.

As for me, I'm still playing ESO every single day, on two servers, for several hours a day. I'm also playing other games, and there are days when I play ESO less so I can hurry up and log out to go play something else. But I still come back to ESO, and I can't see that changing anytime soon.

CoronHR · December 16

interesting how there are always a few people in these posts about the shrinking eso population, who bend over backwards to poke holes in steam's numbers. compare steam's numbers to steam's numbers ... the steam numbers right now are at 2017 levels, just like op said. that's a huge problem. maybe the eso team can turn it around. but they need some better ideas. they're having to go back through class identities to adjust them so that subclassing isn't overpowered, when perhaps ... just perhaps ... it was a bad idea to go through with subclassing in the first place. so they're having to waste time correcting a thing that they shouldn't have ever released. and that takes time away from coming up with the next great idea, the idea that will impress people and entice departed players to return. so, the way i see it, they'll be too busy to come up with something that will actually turn their numbers around. it's probably a matter of just making sure the numbers don't go even lower.

but the numbers are bad. don't try to wiggle out of it by saying 'oh these are just steam numbers'. look at steam's numbers ... they're in the gutter. i'm sure if you looked at the data from other platforms ... if they kept data ... it would show a similar trend

Stamicka · December 16

In practice things are much worse than 2017 ever was. The demographic of ESO in 2017 wasn't nearly as casual as it is now. ESO may have had fewer overall players in 2017, but more of those players played ESO like an MMO. There was more PvP and endgame PvE activity than now despite the lower population.

Right now the overall player count is low AND it seems to be made up of solo focused players. This means very low activity in PvP, low activity in veteran PvE, and emptier feeling zones. The game has never subjectively felt as dead as it does now because of this.

Cooperharley · December 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

🥱🥱🥱

Not everyone plays on epic or eso launcher. Steam is the only one who provided player counts so steam data is absolutly valid and I'm tired of people who pretend it ain't.

Steam is the market leader in it's business with a market share of 75%. Epic is not even close to Steam.

I remember someone once said times are bad for ESO, when Fallout 76 has more steam players then ESO.

Right now according to their data more people on Steam are into Fallout 76 then into ESO

It's valid, but it also has context that is constantly being missed. So lets play with numbers.

If Steam in 2017 had

Furyous wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Not everyone plays ESO through Steam.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

not this again. in 2017 eso was not on epic launcher. now it is.

📊 How Statistics Work

When people want to know what is happening in a big group, they do not ask every single person. That would take too long. Instead, they look at a smaller group, called a sample. If the sample is chosen the same way each time, it shows the bigger trend.

Think about school. If a teacher wants to know if kids like pizza day, she does not need to ask the whole school. She can ask one class, and if most of them like it, that tells her what the rest probably think too.

ESO works the same way. Not everyone plays through Steam, but Steam players are one class we can see. Their numbers go up and down just like the rest of the game.

If the company does not share the full numbers, the only fair choice is to use the numbers we do have. Steam Charts are public and easy to track. They show us whether the game is growing or shrinking.

So Steam is not the whole school, but it is enough to see the trend. Ignoring it means ignoring the only clear evidence we have.

Your analogy is flawed. Steam is not a sample of kids in a school - it is a different school.

Yes, Steam holds 70 - 75% of PC Digital distribution market share, the digital distribution itself being about 90% of distribution. Distribution is also not the same as playing. Anyone not launching through Steam, even though the game is purchased on Steam will not count towards the statistics.

So:
How many were playing on Steam who are now on another laucher?

How many are launching through Steam now and then?

How many new players are buying direct now and then?

Steam numbers are indicative but they are not the whole and therefore any sample of the part is skewed.

"They show us whether the game is growing or shrinking." - They show us whether those launching the game through Steam is growing or shrinking.

"No!!! ESO population is up!! You're wrong!!! Only people that play on steam specifically are leaving!!"

Dude

Steam is used as a sample size of the population to look at trends. It's not a unique population of people in a vacuum while the rest of the launchers have booming populations. That's not how this works. It's incredible that people get so hung up on a misunderstanding of basic statistics. Take a breather from that copium you're inhaling at max

xR3ACTORx · December 16

As I learned last week certain individuals just wanna bait people into saying things to report them. Thankfully it also goes in the other direction and I came to the conclusion that it's not worth debating with these individuals.

Gladly i am too old to "play with numbers".

Xarc · December 17

Okay, back in 2017 not everyone was using Steam;

But we don't need graphs to see that the player base is declining. As someone mentioned earlier, you only have to look at your friends list or your guilds...

moderatelyfatman · December 17

karthrag_inak wrote: »

not this again. in 2017 eso was not on epic launcher. now it is.

If what you say is true, shouldn't ALL games on steam be undergoing a similar decline as players move over to Epic?
Yet other games of a similar age (~10 years) have relatively stable long term populations or even slowly increasing over time.
@fizzybeef 's is right.

SilverBride · December 17

Gankform wrote: »

Check your friend list and your guilds and tell me how many have left in recent years...we don't need graphs to understand that the game is not going well

How many new players have come in that time?

moderatelyfatman · December 17

SilverBride wrote: »

Gankform wrote: »

Check your friend list and your guilds and tell me how many have left in recent years...we don't need graphs to understand that the game is not going well

How many new players have come in that time?

Not many.
I'm in the Australian timezone so our population has always been smaller and the changes tend to be more obvious. While a declining population during US primetime can still appear full due to instancing, the zones appear empty in our timezone. Queue times for group finder outside of golden hour (1-2 hours after daily reset) have become bad in recent years.

Compared to 5 years ago, I've noticed that many more of same new members will simultaneously join more than one of the three guilds I'm still a member of. This tells me that the number of active guilds is also much lower than previously.

Erickson9610 · December 17

So what are the players going to do about this situation? If you have friends who haven't tried ESO or haven't played it in a while, it would be a really good idea to invite them to play with you.

moderatelyfatman · December 17

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So what are the players going to do about this situation? If you have friends who haven't tried ESO or haven't played it in a while, it would be a really good idea to invite them to play with you.

Not if you want to keep them as friends!

kevkj · December 17

I've never seen a more delusional post, anyone who has tried to do instanced content on PCNA during NA prime time over the past few weeks could tell you that the player population must have increased tenfold. That would be the only reasonable explanation for all the server latency issues. Why the sudden spike in players? I'm not sure, but I think the combination of re-introducing the best large scale open world PVP the world has ever seen and winning "Indie Game of the Year" at the ZOS Game Awards might have something to do with it.

Al_Ex_Andre · December 17

My formerly first trading guild is disbanding. They said that they did every trial on heroic (I was not a member at this time), and only kept the merchant alive since then. And now they quit for good.

So we can certainly guess that it's because they are no more trials they didn't made it on heroic, that they quit.

So I have to agree with a few posters here, that's the lack of content that make people quit.

Maybie add an infinite archive clone (like a knights tournament whatever), with new sets, blue + the new green pattern recipes as random rewards (purple should stay for infinite archive), and 2 legendaries leads every week...and you have content.

Best would be new trials really, probably, for these very persons who quit because there's no more 'challenge'.

I am now of the fence to not support the game anymore anyway. Maybie the game really has run its course, and we can all move on to the next microsoft games.

The model of the game is to keep content relevant chapter after chapter, but in return, there's few new content, and people once they did it all, just leave, that is.

The new players are the only saving grace to the game. But they too will quit once they did it all, this will just happen.^^

fizzybeef · December 17

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So what are the players going to do about this situation? If you have friends who haven't tried ESO or haven't played it in a while, it would be a really good idea to invite them to play with you.

Sorry but to what would i invite them to play? I run in a pvp guild and our gm has literally announced 2 months ago we wont run before midyear mayhem, because the population is to low.
I dont want to play with others, and the games population is dead because people leave, wich causes a chain reaction making more people leave. Just sadding

Renato90085 · December 17

last time i see non event large populatione zone(vvardenfell/rimmen) have other instances is U45

Mayrael · December 17

I can see it when looking at my active guilds—with each passing year, there are fewer and fewer people everywhere.

The final straw for me was the latest news about Vengeance. Since then, I've suspended my subscription and haven't logged in.
Many people I know have quit due to the poor Cyrodiil performance and the developers' nonchalant disregard for player feedback.
Censorship of chats—even private ones—has stripped away the game's social aspect.
Dumbing down overland content has narrowed the appeal for many players to just Trials and HM Vet dungs.
We have a myriad of activities, none of which feel engaging or fun. ESO has become just another "mobile" game: log in, grab your rewards, and log out.
The sad truth is that after 11 years spent here, I feel no regret—only relief.