"The point of my post was to highlight how the current trading system creates unnecessary barriers compared to other MMOs, and to propose ways it could be improved."

I do not believe this premise to be true. This game has a layered and structured trading system. It has levels and the more you participate the more you get out of it. Just like trials. You don't just start out trying for the leader board and trifectas on your first trial. You start with normal trials get in a progression group and work up. Not being able to do hard mode trials right off the start doesn't mean you are locked out of doing trials. I don't see it as unnecessary barriers but levels of play.

With trading entry level is selling to venders and zone chat. Join a guild and if they are large enough to can buy/sell using a vendor exclusive to the guild. Personally I think this part of trading doesn't get near as used as it should and players lose out not taking advantage. Next step is a guild that often gets one of the outlier traders. Even a trader out in the boonies can generate 100sof thousands of gold a week if you have the items to sell. End game could be getting into a prime trading guild and spending a good chunk of time in game pursuing items to flip.

This game is the only one I've played that has this diverse a market that accommodates so many styles of play. A central market would severely damage a vibrant trading community and damage the economy. I suggested my idea for making the current system (my opinion) better earlier in the thread. I don't know how feasible my idea would be when considering server performance but I think it would allow players who just want to find items quick and those that want to chase down bargains the chance to do that.

Move to a Market Board
Works great and no one can take control. Everything is searchable in one place by category
Guilds can save money for guildies, no need to spend millions on trading spots.
And guilds have no need to charge people to join.

bmnoble wrote: »

Might work for cheaper stuff people want to sell but when it comes to high value items, had more than a few people join the trade guilds I am in then try to sell the items in guild chat directly to avoid the listing fees, then proceed to sulk or leave when they are told not to sell directly in chat but use the guild trader since the fees in part pay for the trader bid.

If this other global trader your proposing had even higher listing fees, I think you would either end up with people continuing to sell in zone chat to avoid those fees or just selling via the existing guild traders.

Think it would cause guild traders to drop cheaper stuff and focus on more expensive items, since you would have people prepared to pay a little bit more for cheaper stuff, it is one of the reasons locations with high foot traffic get such high trader bids. More expensive stuff however I think people will still shop around, especially if those listing on this global trader mark up the prices to try and mitigate how much they are losing in fees.

Though I think it would likely kill most remote guild traders, only customers I see them getting are flippers, looking to buy cheap and re list on the global trader. While further inflating the cost of traders in high foot traffic areas.

Overall it would depend on how high the listing fee ends up being, if it is too high people looking to sell low end stuff won't make much, people selling high end stuff, will lose out to lower prices and higher profit margins on guild traders, about the only exception would be stuff with an extremely limited supply, plenty of billionaires who would be able to buy out all the stock and then list for stupidly high prices on the global trader.

What you describe is already happening under the current system.

Players already avoid listing fees by selling in zone chat or guild chat, guilds already prioritize high‑value items in prime locations, and flippers already buy cheap from remote traders to re‑list for profit. None of this requires a global trader, it is how the guild trader system currently works.

The difference is that a global trader would simply add another option. It would not remove guild traders, zone chat, or direct trades. Those who prefer the current system could continue using it exactly as they do now, while players who are locked out today would finally have a way to participate.

Higher fees or market dynamics are not new problems; they already exist. A global trader does not replace the system, it expands it.

It comes down to ease, it's so much easier with a central auction house to control a market, especially where things are based on a single mega server per region/platform, the distributed model in eso combats this for all the things you say are negatives. Surely you can see that, as you see it as a barrier anyway.

That's not to say there haven't been attempts to control, I remember on PCEU a large group of traders were trying to control alchemy ingredients, but the distributed model meant they were never in full control and it fell apart.

Some games accpet this market control risk - these games tend to end up with out of control pricing with rare items going through the roof but common items being a race to the bottom. Or they have different server instances that effectively work as a distributed model very similar to eso by hiding items on a different server and you need to change through the servers (if possible) to be able to see the entire market. There are plenty of other MMOs that take other routes, usually based on limiting direct player to player sales, with the most common process essentially being selling to a NPC for a variable price (depending on how much of a certain item has been sold recently) with these then sold by NPCs for a centrally controlled price, these are the games that tend to have the least inflation, because its not strictly a player driven econ because resale prices are highly controlled, but they can claim player driven because the pricing is based on what players sell.

Of the options I've experienced and taking into account the structure of ESO, I much prefer the current status, I beleive eso would be much more open to manipulation should there be a single auction house. I also think markets are much more agreeable with lore and the general look and feel of eso.

I can understand where the suggestion comes from, I had similar feelings when first getting into trading, and yes ESO could make the process of getting into it easier. Better ways of interacting with guilds, that were promised by ZOS in the GM meeting over a year ago and were mentioned in the letter last year but we have seen nothing. To imply that it's the norm that trading guilds require dues or charge is incorrect - through my trading journey I have been a transient member of many guilds that had traders and didn't charge or expect sales.

I'm also dissatisfied with the current in-game economy, but the current trading system isn't inherently flawed; it does create a sense of immersion. I think the biggest problem is that there are too few truly valuable items in the game that people are willing or forced to spend gold on.

Most of our alchemy materials are cheap (because most alchemy products have little practical use), most food ingredients are useless (most food items have little practical use), most tradable equipment is useless in both PvP and PvE (again, because most equipment has little practical use), and most style materials are cheap.

Most equipment styles only sell well when they're first released; most older styles are ignored.

Since there's no demand for goods, the economy is naturally poor. This is why I previously requested the addition of tradable and attractive items to Trials and Cyrodiil, such as rare drops for AS+2. If these could be rewarded with rare drops, like the well-known Phoenix mount in WoW, it would undoubtedly increase players' enthusiasm for trials and give new value to older ones. Imagine if vMOL dropped Luminous Moon Dials, vHRC dropped Gargoyle Training Dummies, vAA dropped Polymorphs of Mage Constellation, vKA dropped Bat Pets, or randomly provided tradable skill styles in Cyrodiil's Rewards for the Worthy. Especially when the equipment from these older trials is no longer attractive, these rare drops will continue to keep players enthusiastic about participating in them and PvP.

As long as market demand increases, even guild vendors in less popular areas will attract people to explore and hunt for gold. Currently, because most items are unattractive, and the more attractive items are often inexpensive, people just want to buy what's conveniently available in town, regardless of the price.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I'm also dissatisfied with the current in-game economy, but the current trading system isn't inherently flawed; it does create a sense of immersion. I think the biggest problem is that there are too few truly valuable items in the game that people are willing or forced to spend gold on.

Most of our alchemy materials are cheap (because most alchemy products have little practical use), most food ingredients are useless (most food items have little practical use), most tradable equipment is useless in both PvP and PvE (again, because most equipment has little practical use), and most style materials are cheap.

Most equipment styles only sell well when they're first released; most older styles are ignored.

Since there's no demand for goods, the economy is naturally poor. This is why I previously requested the addition of tradable and attractive items to Trials and Cyrodiil, such as rare drops for AS+2. If these could be rewarded with rare drops, like the well-known Phoenix mount in WoW, it would undoubtedly increase players' enthusiasm for trials and give new value to older ones. Imagine if vMOL dropped Luminous Moon Dials, vHRC dropped Gargoyle Training Dummies, vAA dropped Polymorphs of Mage Constellation, vKA dropped Bat Pets, or randomly provided tradable skill styles in Cyrodiil's Rewards for the Worthy. Especially when the equipment from these older trials is no longer attractive, these rare drops will continue to keep players enthusiastic about participating in them and PvP.

As long as market demand increases, even guild vendors in less popular areas will attract people to explore and hunt for gold. Currently, because most items are unattractive, and the more attractive items are often inexpensive, people just want to buy what's conveniently available in town, regardless of the price.

This is exactly what would drive my assumption of the two outcomes. One system would have the few expensive items that are worth selling at a high price and pay for the higher listing fee. The other system would have the cheap trash. The cheap trash side would either evolve to be its own, separate entity with very little overlap with the other system, or it would just shrivel up and die.

bmnoble wrote: »

plenty of billionaires who would be able to buy out all the stock and then list for stupidly high prices on the global trader.

That is exactly what is happening with ESO's guild traders, though. With an auction house, thousands of casual buyers have the same chance at fetching a bargain as a dozen of "pros". And even when someone tries to overtake the market, eventually they have all their money bound in goods and listing fees, while their business goes to the ones who are making a fortune just slightly underbidding them.

In both system prices regulate themselves. In any global auction house prices eventually settle to what both sellers and buyers think is fair. In ESO the big trading guilds determine what is an adequate price for an item.

ESO's system is unfair to casual buyers, who can't be bothered to use external tools or suffer through dozens of loadscreens to find a bargain, as well as to casual sellers, who either have no idea what a fair price is, or simply can't meet the demands of a big trading guild and need to sell on a remote trader where stuff only sells at a low price.

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Ironically it is these barriers that keep the economy from spiraling out of control...

Most of the arguments here are speculation about what might happen. We don’t have to guess. Nearly every other MMO uses a centralized trader or auction house, and their economies function without collapsing. ESO is the outlier. Barriers here don’t stabilize value, they exclude players. Gold inflation and monopolies already exist under the current guild trader system.

SolarRune wrote: »

It comes down to ease, it's so much easier with a central auction house to control a market...

Market manipulation already happens today. Flippers and monopolies thrive in high traffic kiosks, while zone chat bypasses fees. A global trader doesn’t replace guild traders, zone chat, or direct trades, it adds another option. Those who prefer the distributed model can keep using it, while excluded players finally gain a path to participate.

frogthroat wrote: »

Beautiful idea, but I don't think it would work... natural selection... one system would dominate...

There are really two ways to look at this. The fact that players are already using zone chat and guild chat to bypass the current system shows there’s a need for something more accessible. That’s not a sign of convenience, it’s a sign of demand.

And there’s nothing wrong with natural selection between systems. If the current guild trader model truly works best, then a global trader will fail. But if the new system fits player needs better, it will succeed.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I'm also dissatisfied with the current in-game economy, but the current trading system isn't inherently flawed...

Your dissatisfaction, which many players share, shows there might be a better way forward. Demand is weak, yes, but accessibility is a separate issue. Right now 92 percent of guilds are excluded from trading entirely, and of the small fraction that do get traders, fewer than 10 percent (less than one percent of guilds) land in good spots. That artificial scarcity is what causes problems.

Even if more valuable items were introduced, the current system would still lock most players out of trading them. A global trader ensures that when demand does exist, everyone can participate, not just the few guilds with kiosks.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

...the current trading environment is indeed poor, it's not due to guild traders, but rather because most goods lack appeal...

Think of it like Saks Fifth Avenue versus Walmart. A few selections of high‑value luxury items don’t generate nearly the amount of sales as getting cheaper goods to more people. Who do you think generates more revenue, the boutique with limited access, or the store that serves the masses? ESO’s system artificially limits trading to the boutique model, when the broader MMO market shows that opening access drives far more participation and stability.

Northwold wrote: »

The gating of easy to use selling behind guild membership is itself inflationary...

I think you’re spot on about how gating selling behind guild membership drives inflation. When players can’t sell, they end up farming new gold instead of circulating existing gold, which expands the money supply. That’s not healthy for the economy long term.

You’re also right that trader bids push prices upward just to cover kiosk costs. Instead of acting as a stabilizing sink, they often cancel out their own effect by forcing sellers to inflate prices further.

You could have the wandering merchants be peddlers. Every player can sell up to 10 items through a wandering merchant. The wandering merchants would be global auction houses, they allow you to buy an item that's listed in guild traders or by individual players, but at a 20% markup cost. That way, there's a gold sink and the original trader gets the money.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I have questions. How much higher is the listing fee? How often? How many players can use this system at one time? Is there a bidding system to use the trader? How do you prevent searches from crashing it? Where is it located? Do you need ESO+ subscription? Is there an item limit? How do you prevent botting exploits? How do you plan to prevent the system from crashing the game? How is ZOS going to recoup the costs of implementation? Is this something that will retain both new and old players?

Among others, but this is a start.

As is if you pushed this out, then there either wouldnt be a guild trader system (or no point to it) or it will get so bogged down with activity that it will crash itself and/or the game.

Realistically we have been told that the reason listings was cut down to 14 days was for performance improvements. Keeping in mind that this was under the existing system. Assuming that if every guild had 100% participation and every player had a single account in a single trade guild. That's not a lot of players using it in comparison to the whole. If everyone has access at one time, it could break things bad.

As for trade guilds. Listing fees is not the most cumbersome way to access trading. If that were the only restriction and if it were only marginally higher than guild trader listing fees. Trade guilds would be obsolete. I dont think you quite grasp the effort that GMs and guild officers have to commit to inorder to get players to donate enough gold to make a bid, or the stress involved in doing that along with bids and other aspects.

I also dont think you have fully considered how much impact convenience plays a role in eso.

ZOS does and they monetize it. Its no coincidence that the reconstruction system uses a bind on pickup up economic system that is essentially closed off to trading. And linked into that convenience is a benefit tied specifically to ESO plus.

I would also argue that economically speaking, the craft bag as is, is bad for the economy. But its implementation is a huge convenience, and one of the only reason some people sub.

Point is, for guild stores to work with your change they need something that will attract players. A convenience, or there needs to be restrictions on the all access trader so that its not so OP in the convenience factor. Otherwise your promise of both wont work.

I am NOT trying to deny the idea. I will make my gold using whichever system works. But whatever happens, if there is a change or not, I just want it to have all of the options to succeed and actually be better.

There are a lot of small improvements to the existing system i would love to see, but no one here wants to talk about those...

You raise fair questions about specifics like fees, limits, and technical safeguards. Most of those details (how much higher the listing fee is, how often it applies, how many players can use the system at once) would have to be worked out through implementation and testing. That’s normal for any system design.

As for the broader implementation concerns (preventing search crashes, location, ESO+ integration, item limits, botting protections, server stability, cost recovery, and player retention) these are challenges that nearly every MMO has already solved. Even small studios with limited resources have managed to build functional global trading systems. ZOS doesn’t have to reinvent the wheel here; they can adapt proven models and apply ESO‑specific tuning.

The proposal isn’t meant to hand ZOS a finished blueprint. It’s meant to highlight the accessibility gap in ESO’s current trading system and suggest a direction that balances choice:

Guild traders remain the lower‑cost, competitive option for organized groups.

A global trader provides convenience for casuals and small guilds who otherwise can’t realistically participate.

The fine‑tuning of fees, limits, and safeguards is exactly what testing and iteration are for. The point is that the concept is viable and widely implemented elsewhere.

Just to point out in case you don’t know, you do not have to wait for a specific time to place your bids. Bidding opens up around 5-10 minutes after trader flip so even though the search for an open trader to hire for 10k didn’t pan out, you can start placing bids for next Tuesday from now up until 10 minutes prior to the next trader flip (2pm Eastern on Tuesdays currently). You have a full week to place potential bids.

Furyous wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I have questions. How much higher is the listing fee? How often? How many players can use this system at one time? Is there a bidding system to use the trader? How do you prevent searches from crashing it? Where is it located? Do you need ESO+ subscription? Is there an item limit? How do you prevent botting exploits? How do you plan to prevent the system from crashing the game? How is ZOS going to recoup the costs of implementation? Is this something that will retain both new and old players?

Among others, but this is a start.

As is if you pushed this out, then there either wouldnt be a guild trader system (or no point to it) or it will get so bogged down with activity that it will crash itself and/or the game.

Realistically we have been told that the reason listings was cut down to 14 days was for performance improvements. Keeping in mind that this was under the existing system. Assuming that if every guild had 100% participation and every player had a single account in a single trade guild. That's not a lot of players using it in comparison to the whole. If everyone has access at one time, it could break things bad.

As for trade guilds. Listing fees is not the most cumbersome way to access trading. If that were the only restriction and if it were only marginally higher than guild trader listing fees. Trade guilds would be obsolete. I dont think you quite grasp the effort that GMs and guild officers have to commit to inorder to get players to donate enough gold to make a bid, or the stress involved in doing that along with bids and other aspects.

I also dont think you have fully considered how much impact convenience plays a role in eso.

ZOS does and they monetize it. Its no coincidence that the reconstruction system uses a bind on pickup up economic system that is essentially closed off to trading. And linked into that convenience is a benefit tied specifically to ESO plus.

I would also argue that economically speaking, the craft bag as is, is bad for the economy. But its implementation is a huge convenience, and one of the only reason some people sub.

Point is, for guild stores to work with your change they need something that will attract players. A convenience, or there needs to be restrictions on the all access trader so that its not so OP in the convenience factor. Otherwise your promise of both wont work.

I am NOT trying to deny the idea. I will make my gold using whichever system works. But whatever happens, if there is a change or not, I just want it to have all of the options to succeed and actually be better.

There are a lot of small improvements to the existing system i would love to see, but no one here wants to talk about those...

You raise fair questions about specifics like fees, limits, and technical safeguards. Most of those details (how much higher the listing fee is, how often it applies, how many players can use the system at once) would have to be worked out through implementation and testing. That’s normal for any system design.

As for the broader implementation concerns (preventing search crashes, location, ESO+ integration, item limits, botting protections, server stability, cost recovery, and player retention) these are challenges that nearly every MMO has already solved. Even small studios with limited resources have managed to build functional global trading systems. ZOS doesn’t have to reinvent the wheel here; they can adapt proven models and apply ESO‑specific tuning.

The proposal isn’t meant to hand ZOS a finished blueprint. It’s meant to highlight the accessibility gap in ESO’s current trading system and suggest a direction that balances choice:

Guild traders remain the lower‑cost, competitive option for organized groups.

A global trader provides convenience for casuals and small guilds who otherwise can’t realistically participate.

The fine‑tuning of fees, limits, and safeguards is exactly what testing and iteration are for. The point is that the concept is viable and widely implemented elsewhere.

I get what your saying that its not really up to the players to create the thing that players want. But it is up to the players to define what they want.

The problem with what your asking is that you are assuming that guild traders are cheap and that your independent trader wont be dominated by the same people that are actively trading in guilds.

That is actually a fallacy. Those same power traders will use the new trader. And if there is a user limit then casual players will be priced out. Basically there will be a leader board in trading that would be a very cutthroat thing. Meanwhile, guilds will fall apart. And will be populated by the casuals and infrequent sellers that cant maintain listings are are not active enough to sell.

If there is no user limit then you face the challenges that I highlighted.

And yes I understand that other games have robust and functional markets. But ESO wasnt designed that way, regardless that it should have been. As such its still a challenge to implement, requires initial and ongoing resources and investments, and other such factors.

To get it to pass reviews for consideration you would need to convince them there is a dire need for it, and that they can recoup the costs. Because as I have said in the past, its entirely possible that it might be easier for zos to just put the economy on bind on pickup than to swap economy systems.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Furyous wrote: »

I just spent a couple of hours running through remote traders and outlaw refuges, because I missed the bidding deadline, hoping to find an unclaimed trader. I found none. After two hours with no results, I gave up, and I can't find a full list of traders to check. That is hours wasted simply because there is not a central listing of claimed versus unclaimed traders. Where is the fun here?

All I want is to try the trading system without being forced into someone else’s guild. Yet the system is locked down so tightly that only about 7 percent of guilds can participate, meaning 93 percent of players are stuck riding the coattails of elite trading guilds just to sell anything. If you do not join another player’s guild and play by their rules, you are shut out of trading entirely.

That is not accessibility, that is exclusion.

Umm .. Is it even possible to find an unclaimed trader in such a way considering how many interested guilds there are (at least on PCNA)? Asking for myself (not an interested party, just curious).

On PS NA, every now and then you can. But mostly there are none open as generally a guild of some type has placed a bid of some kind.

In a way it's a good idea but it would also be death of the current system as masses (like myself) wouldn't bother finding a trading guild - and that would probably kill a lot of trading guilds as they wouldn't have enough members anymore.

lostineternity wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

In games with an Auction House, people viciously undercut others, and prices tank, except for the rarest items. This happened at a much lesser degree with Guild Traders, before Add-Ons told people how to price their gear.

It's much worse. Each mmo with auction system has so called auction bots, that 24/7 stand near trader buying everything and then resell but with higher price. Of course they use 3rd party soft.

And one question, why in the hell you want to make ESO the same game like any other mmo why are you eager to cut of everything unique this game has?

And if someone thinks people won't program bots to do just that or that somehow ZOS will become better at preventing them, I'd love to take them on a tour of the farming bots that have constantly plagued consoles for years.

And before the inevitable "that already happens now" argument - nope, pretty dang sure there are not bots on console immediately buying and flipping goods because, at the very least, we do not have TTC on console. Other add-ons if you're on PS5 (or the XBox equivalent) to help with average price recommendations for listing, but nothing that scans traders and tells you what is located where like PC has. You still have to shop around in the wild like ZOS's original intention here.