Is ESO’s Trading System Run by the Mafia?

katanagirl1 · December 4

You don’t have to go to every guild trader, the capital cities Elden Root, Wayrest, and Mournhold are the most desirable locations and typically have the biggest guilds because they can bid more for the slots. Bigger guilds have more items listed for sale, so it’s one-stop shopping. If you want to look further then the dlc capital cities have some items to sell, but not a lot. The other locations aren’t worth checking unless you happen to pass by. That is why the big cities are worth more, the foot traffic is better.

I’m in a donation-based guild and we get a spot in places like Alinor, and we have been in Elden Root and Wayrest recently. I pay as generously as I can to help get a good spot, but I don’t make a lot from selling master writs.

So yeah, I like the guild trader system and I’m not in a “mafia” guild and don’t make more than about 70k a week.

EDIT: typo

Leighlaa · December 4

Munkfist wrote: »

As someone that has run many trade guilds, and still partakes in the trading system in a very casual manner, I absolutely love the system.

Definitely this!

I've played plenty of other mmos with other trade systems, and in those games they had perks and limitations. Here, there are perks and limitations, and the system can be learned and perfected without needing too much sass. That said, the trade system in this game is a sort of PvP and I actually like that A LOT.

Then again, our trade guild has a mafia-themed name so.... this post just gave me the absolute giggles.

Necrotech_Master · December 4

my thoughts:

while the system is slightly inconvenient, being decentralized does help break up the ability to corner the market on stuff

the problem ive seen in games with central auction houses is everything is so much more overpriced and expensive, or its a race to the bottom having to list items for less and less to actually get your items to sell (because if they arent lower than the avg, chances are they wont be seen and therefore sell)

ive seen it when things corner the market, this can make the price exponentially increase within 24 hours (so something selling for 1000g one day will be sold for 100,000g the next day because someone with tons of money and bored will buy out all of the listings, then relist said items for much higher prices, then these become the "new" prices in the history)

running a trade guild and trying to bid on traders is definitely a lot of work in here, which is why im not really willing to try to run a trade guild, but i will gladly join a guild that consistently has a trader to sell my wares on

because we can be in 5 guilds, you can have 1 guild purely for trading so you can sell stuff, and then 4 other guilds for whatever you want

if you play a lot, get 2 trade guilds to double your listing slots

trying to get a trader in a guild run basically by yourself, likely wont happen unless you go to super remote traders (outlaw refuges, or remote overland traders, which generally cost less than 100k gold per week), and then using something like TTC to upload those listings to a wider audience

granted TTC is not a great solution, as some people dont use the addon, or the website for various reasons (i havent used TTC in years since they put in counters for adblockers that prevent the webpages from loading anything useful)

while the system we have is definitely not perfect (stuff like price tracking is difficult to do without addons, a bit same for trying to locate where specific items are being sold such as rarer items), i would rather have that than a centralized auction house where flippers and market manipulators have free reign on system abuse and would significantly inflate the prices of everything again

Zodiarkslayer · December 4

Furyous wrote: »

I am posting this because I want to understand how this benefits the game. From where I stand, it looks like a full time job with no clear path for regular players to participate. Why hasn’t ESO adopted a universal auction house like every other MMO figured out years ago?

Easy! You have to let go of the notion that trading is supposed to be a service and embrace it as a mini game incorporated into ESO that it is. You make an effort, you get a reward. You make no effort, you get no reward. How is that wrong?

The inconvenience with engaging in the trading system is intentional and serves as the primary mechanism against exploitations of the market, such as monopolies or price driving by creating artificial shortages. As I hear, both WoW and FFXIV have both regular problems with exploitative behaviour, because they have global auction houses.

And honestly, trading guilds are one last community aspect of that game that still works. My trading guild has more than 2000 members in eight separate in-game guilds and it is still active even after all the [... insert random curse ...] that the ESO community had to endure over the last years.
Is it your intention to take that away as well? So that nobody has any reason to link up with other players in this game anymore? REALLY?

frogthroat · December 4

I like the scattered shops around Tamriel. Brings more RP into the game when you need to find the merchants out in the world.

But it is not without negatives:

If you don't have ESO+ or the expansions, the shops in DLC areas are out of your reach.
You need a 3rd party service to find anything. I use TTC website.

A universal auction house would fix those but it would also destroy the RP element of it. I like that not all merchant spots are equal. In a big hub like the capitals of zones is more expensive and items get traded faster. And in some remote DLC zone single merchant spot you can find good deals but the options are more limited.

If there would be any change to ESO guild stores the only change I would like to see is some sort of built-in, in-game listing of everything but you would still need to travel to the trader for the purchase. So you would have something similar to the TTC website, but in-game.

Although sometimes annoying, but still kinda brings excitement is that when you check where an item is for sale and travel there, you don't really know if the item is still available until you get there. So while it's sometimes annoying, I like this because when you learn to estimate if something is available in a TTC list it becomes its own minigame.

spartaxoxo · December 4

ESO has the most stable economy that I have ever seen in an MMO. New players can join and do quests to buy everything they need the same as a day 1 player could despite the game being 10 years old. The guild trader system is a success. People who don't want to join a trading guild (and there are free guilds) are free to sell in zone chat.

ValarMorghulis1896 · December 4

Please, no more MMOs with a boring and speculator-friendly auction house! I like the system the way it is; it may not be perfect, but my tiny guild has had the same vendor in the middle of nowhere for years, we always earn more than he costs us, and if we need something ourselves, a quick trip to Vvardenfell, Wayrest, or Eldenroot is all it takes.

Tra_Lalan · December 4

I remember playing TES II, there was one blacksmith in one city who had the best prices for selling my gear.
ESO trading system kinda has the same vibes, you can always find better deals in some locations (main places when you sell, unpopular places when you buy). IMHO it is kinda cool and unique.

As for the weekly fees from guilds beeing too high, you know, bids for traders in best spots are absurdly high, so they have to make up for it somehow.

Gabriel_H · December 4

ValarMorghulis1896 wrote: »

Please, no more MMOs with a boring and speculator-friendly auction house! I like the system the way it is; it may not be perfect, but my tiny guild has had the same vendor in the middle of nowhere for years, we always earn more than he costs us, and if we need something ourselves, a quick trip to Vvardenfell, Wayrest, or Eldenroot is all it takes.

Dude! Adverstise.

twisttop138 · December 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This is where “convenience” and “precedent from other games” conflicts with “precedent from the game we’re in.”

A lot of people say over and over “but but but a full auction house doesn’t mean that one player controls the market in game XYZ!” But that’s not ESO - it’s perfectly possible (and expected, from some) that they will sit on TTC and run to every other trader to buy all of the “Crafting Motif 69: Nice” pages in the world so that they can try to flip them for 10x the price. Having hundreds of guild traders makes that process harder because said player needs to run to each one in turn, which means it is not as easy for one player to control the market. Allowing a central location where they (or let’s face it - an addon) can buy every page within a second of listing one anywhere means we absolutely would end up with a few players who already have incredible capital just controlling the price of everything.

Changing the trading system to be like other games won’t mean that all other players will instantly change their mindset.

I do think there are improvements they could make: making TTC functionality native would be great (but the current game may not be able to handle that with memory/space restrictions, but ZOS could host something of the sort on their own companion website and not on a third-party site). I also think that a restrictive guildless trader (few slots and high fees) could allow players who refuse to join guilds to still sell things, but still follow ZOS’s goal of encouraging players to join guilds.

However, let’s not pretend that every guild requires fees. I had a social guild since I started that would get a trader about 75% of the time and charged no fees. They usually got an out-of-the-way trader and I could sell things for cheap. When I got more into the game, I got a proper trade guild in a central location and stuff sells way faster and for higher prices - my guild doesn’t charge a fee per se, but they do ask guild members to contribute by selling lots of high value items, buying from the trader, or buying raffle tickets (which is what I do).

From what I’ve seen, most of the people who complain about various Trade Guild Mafias are also the players who categorically refuse to join guilds for any reason, or those who have smaller guilds and want central locations without the work required to get there.

The current trading system is about the only major gold sink left in the game, considering we don’t get many gold houses. They directly keep the economy healthy by disallowing rampant inflation, which we already see is a problem because of how fast Dolgubon’s can make gold for people.

You are allowed to join a mid-tier trade guild and do as much or as little with them as you like. There’s no penalty for putting the guild chat on ignore (I have a special chat tab to ignore all guild chatter when I need to focus), and if they are asking for fees that you think are too high, you can find a trade guild that suits your needs. But as little as I know about trading in this game, I do know that leading a trade guild is a horribly thankless job, and I am so happy and thankful that the GM of my guild makes it a painless thing to be a member.

This is true, though we may disagree on an auction house. My social guild, that I'm an officer in, does very well on getting the same trader every week and no player is ever charged dues. Creative way to raise money are figured out and when that fails my GM dips into his own funds to make sure the guild has one. Donations are appreciated, or participation in a plunder run, but we do good never making our players feel this has to be done.

I could very much support some decent changes to the system without changing to an auction house. Though I feel your example of a player buying up all of X item to resell for more is a thing some trading guilds very much engage in, and we're on PS5 so no TTC, but the point being that this behavior will be engaged in regardless. I guess not being able to do it instantly makes less people do it? I will say that Swtor had its share of trading issues when I played from launch to 2016 and probably still does. Though in that game you can sell shop items on the AH.

So I think some changes to relieve some of the pain points would be welcome instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water. I just don't have faith in Zos to actually do anything.

Edit spelling

Gabriel_H · December 4

twisttop138 wrote: »

I could very much support some decent changes to the system without changing to an auction house.

The problem as I see it with trader spots is two fold:

1) Some spots are more convenient than others, so players use them more, so they become more desireable
2) Trade guilds keep trying to outbid each other, squeezing dues from players, and shutting out smaller guilds.

I've mentioned a while back how ZOS could change the system to have an affect on 1) - basically the nearer to a Wayshrine and other NPC traders the higher a Sales Tax you pay when you buy something - the gold from this tax disappears into the ether aka gold sink. Creates an incentive to visit the less convenient ones.

It doesn't solve the problem of 2) though. So, what about also adding a flat fee system, broken down by category and then a random drawing, coupled with the NPCs ceasing to be "Traders" and become "Representatives" that represent more than 1 guild - lets say 3 for now.

What you could then have is a system that looks something like this for bids (numbers completetly made up):

Capital Cities: 10m gold (Not just overall Alliance capitals but the Chapter/DLC ones too - 19 in total I think)
Provincial Towns: 5m gold (Like Ebonheart)
Villages: 2.5m gold
Outlaw Refuges: 2m gold
Wilds: 1m gold

Guilds would then be allowed to spend the above amounts, and secure a place in 3 out of the 5 categories, on a first come, first served basis. You snooze in business, you lose.

What you'd then have is multiple spots that can access the same guild, and in each spot multiple guilds. So each capital would then have 6 representaives, representing 3 guild, and 19 hubs like that which is 342 guilds. I think that exceeds the total number of current traders. That is then replicated across the smaller hubs and lone vendors.

Removes the need for massive bids. Increases access to smaller guilds. Has plenty of headroom for newer guilds.

Stormy_Night · December 4

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The difference is you can be part of 5 guilds in ESO. In WoW, FFXIV, and SW you are limited to 1, and 2 for EQ2...

In Guild Wars 2 one can be a member of multiple Guilds (up to 6) and the trading is done at the Trading Post which is one centralized location for all.

twisttop138 · December 4

Gabriel_H wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I could very much support some decent changes to the system without changing to an auction house.

The problem as I see it with trader spots is two fold:

1) Some spots are more convenient than others, so players use them more, so they become more desireable
2) Trade guilds keep trying to outbid each other, squeezing dues from players, and shutting out smaller guilds.

I've mentioned a while back how ZOS could change the system to have an affect on 1) - basically the nearer to a Wayshrine and other NPC traders the higher a Sales Tax you pay when you buy something - the gold from this tax disappears into the ether aka gold sink. Creates an incentive to visit the less convenient ones.

It doesn't solve the problem of 2) though. So, what about also adding a flat fee system, broken down by category and then a random drawing, coupled with the NPCs ceasing to be "Traders" and become "Representatives" that represent more than 1 guild - lets say 3 for now.

What you could then have is a system that looks something like this for bids (numbers completetly made up):

Capital Cities: 10m gold (Not just overall Alliance capitals but the Chapter/DLC ones too - 19 in total I think)
Provincial Towns: 5m gold (Like Ebonheart)
Villages: 2.5m gold
Outlaw Refuges: 2m gold
Wilds: 1m gold

Guilds would then be allowed to spend the above amounts, and secure a place in 3 out of the 5 categories, on a first come, first served basis. You snooze in business, you lose.

What you'd then have is multiple spots that can access the same guild, and in each spot multiple guilds. So each capital would then have 6 representaives, representing 3 guild, and 19 hubs like that which is 342 guilds. I think that exceeds the total number of current traders. That is then replicated across the smaller hubs and lone vendors.

Removes the need for massive bids. Increases access to smaller guilds. Has plenty of headroom for newer guilds.

I'm at work so I can't go as in depth as I'd like to, but these are some great compromises. This is probably one of the better plans I've seen. Because yes, the issue of insanely priced blind bids leads to just higher and higher bids, squeezing out the little guy or squeezing the little guy for more coin. My example of my GM using his own gold sometimes to secure our usual Marbuk trader is im sure not the only instance of this and it's not sustainable. I just wish this was more on the Dev radar but I feel like many things will fly by the wayside as they work on this class thing.

moderatelyfatman · December 4

@Furyous
Nah, if the Mafia was run this badly, they'd all be in jail by now.

Vaqual · December 4

I like the system, feels appropriate to the setting. I am not even in a trading guild. I don't mind not getting the best price all the time, when I am not looking for a significant buy/sale.

Mathius_Mordred · December 4

FullMax wrote: »

Well, who knows. If we make a single auction house for the entire server, then all the merchants from all locations will disappear, or become pointless. Everyone will start crowding around a single banker, which ruins the visuals and the overall experience.

Not really, the merchants would simply be plugged into the worldwide trading system, they could stay there, only instead of browsing a specific guild's wares you'd see everything.

Horny_Poney · December 4

What ruins the overall experience far more is having to visit 288 fracking traders to find 1 thing. That’s not what I call fun. An auction house is the only way.

spartaxoxo · December 5

Horny_Poney wrote: »

What ruins the overall experience far more is having to visit 288 fracking traders to find 1 thing. That’s not what I call fun. An auction house is the only way.

You don't. Almost every item can be found in the base game capital cities of the alliances (Stormhaven, Grahtwood, and Mournhold) or the capital city of the various dlc, especially Vvardenfell and Alinor.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times that I found something in some small area that wasn't also on the big traders from the 10 years that I have been playing. It's not that it never happens but it's very rare and only for extremely rare items. The vast majority of people who are selling the stuff worth having also are in a trading guild. The other guild stores are mostly just casual sellers pawning off whatever they happened to find while playing the game.

There's a lot of FOMO in this thread being passed around as actual difficulty finding things. But, it's actually really easy to find the vast majority of items already.

Vaqual · December 5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Horny_Poney wrote: »

What ruins the overall experience far more is having to visit 288 fracking traders to find 1 thing. That’s not what I call fun. An auction house is the only way.

You don't. Almost every item can be found in the base game capital cities of the alliances (Stormhaven, Grahtwood, and Mournhold) or the capital city of the various dlc, especially Vvardenfell and Alinor.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times that I found something in some small area that wasn't also on the big traders from the 10 years that I have been playing. It's not that it never happens but it's very rare and only for extremely rare items. The vast majority of people who are selling the stuff worth having also are in a trading guild. The other guild stores are mostly just casual sellers pawning off whatever they happened to find while playing the game.

There's a lot of FOMO in this thread being passed around as actual difficulty finding things. But, it's actually really easy to find the vast majority of items already.

Not only that, but also the chance to find a real bargain on an obscure trader would basically be eliminated with a centralised system.

Nomadic_Atmoran · December 5

Ph1p wrote: »

Whether one likes the system or not, to me it looks mainly like a consequence of ESO's megaserver structure. People often reference WoW, but they have hundreds of servers and an auction house only serves a handful of connected servers I believe - although commodity materials are now centralized per region I think.

In contrast, ESO was set up with just one megaserver per platform and region. So any centralized trading system would likely be much larger than a typical WoW auction house. It seems to me that ZOS' answer to that was the decentralized guild trader system we have today.

Now, of course it's absolutely feasible to make a central trader work for ESO and other MMOs have done so. But given the continuing push to reduce server strain (account-wide achievements, hybridization, DoT tick frequencies, mail retention times, etc.), it looks unlikely that ZOS is going to spend resources on something that will impact server performance. And at this point, switching to a central system would just be a giant middle finger to the hundreds of guilds and volunteers that have emerged from trading. I doubt ZOS wants to risk such a self-inflicted disruption to their player communities.

Its most definitely ESOs megaserver structure. Its probably why they originally went with a "you can only sell to other guildies" approach first. When they realized the economy wasn't basically dead on arrival with that method they went with this tedious guild shops approach. There are MMOs with megaservers that do have auction houses though so its very much something ZOS did or did not do as to why we cant have an auction house.

kotisovich · December 5

twisttop138 wrote: »

As a swtor player that came here many years ago, I still think the guild trader system is not good. Beware though, nothing brings out the master debaters like dissing the trader system.

Is swtor still alive? Left game shortly alfte they removed phase walk from assassin

Faltasë · December 5

ofc the people in the ESO forum are the first to fight for a system that only benefits stockbroker hobbyists, cosplaying businesspeople and people who don't want to play the actual game but instead wanna focus on a system that loopholes to... literally no end goal. What are these gold hoarders and guild typhoons going to provide or progress for the game as a whole? The money they spend surely goes to useful progression if you are investing in your account(motifs, furniture), but clearly it doesn't have an end goal besides trading it endlessly into other trades that they then trade endlessly into a void... where the end of the MMO and their uncanny money sinks don't really accomplish anything but "i build the ESO economy with my smarts!"

I get that the way the system is right now is just a "natural" formulation to the system that they put in place, but it doesn't make the system a good system. I think OP is right. Why do we need to rely on an addon? Why is that not an in game feature? There not being a central auction house is a problem, and the economy in ESO does not need to be so inflated that a single guild trader costs upwards of 15 mil.

You know who has 15 mil in the game? People who have been trading from the start and don't do anything else but trade. That isn't exactly accessibility.

And another thing, most guilds that are trading guilds are just the same people operating all of the guilds. Like a big in game monopoly... for crying out loud.

So of course people who benefit from this system are going to love it. They're good at it, and don't want to see it change. That's not a valid argument for why it shouldn't change.

Ph1p · December 5

Faltasë wrote: »

ofc the people in the ESO forum are the first to fight for a system that only benefits stockbroker hobbyists, cosplaying businesspeople and people who don't want to play the actual game but instead wanna focus on a system that loopholes to... literally no end goal. What are these gold hoarders and guild typhoons going to provide or progress for the game as a whole? The money they spend surely goes to useful progression if you are investing in your account(motifs, furniture), but clearly it doesn't have an end goal besides trading it endlessly into other trades that they then trade endlessly into a void... where the end of the MMO and their uncanny money sinks don't really accomplish anything but "i build the ESO economy with my smarts!"

I get that the way the system is right now is just a "natural" formulation to the system that they put in place, but it doesn't make the system a good system. I think OP is right. Why do we need to rely on an addon? Why is that not an in game feature? There not being a central auction house is a problem, and the economy in ESO does not need to be so inflated that a single guild trader costs upwards of 15 mil.

You know who has 15 mil in the game? People who have been trading from the start and don't do anything else but trade. That isn't exactly accessibility.

And another thing, most guilds that are trading guilds are just the same people operating all of the guilds. Like a big in game monopoly... for crying out loud.

So of course people who benefit from this system are going to love it. They're good at it, and don't want to see it change. That's not a valid argument for why it shouldn't change.

Different people play this game. Some spend every waking moment in PVP, others raid for hours on end or endlessly furnish houses, and some like to flourish in the in-game economy. I find it exhausting when people are judging and demeaning one play style, just because they themselves don't like it.
While things like central auction houses are divisive topics, practically everyone agrees that the current guild trading system needs improvements, e.g., to better find items, track sales, and so forth. Trading guilds are crying out for those just as much as everyone else, so pretending that they don't want change is inaccurate.
Comparing multi-guild trading alliances to a monopoly is wildly unsound. They are not like OPEC, but a sports club with multiple teams at different league tiers and youth levels. None of the guilds are able to dictate prices or corner the supply of a specific good, so how is there a monopoly market in ESO?
I have more than 15 million and trading was always just a side show. My main activities were PVE dungeons and trials. Trading has obvious issues, but given how many entry-level guilds there are, accessibility isn't one of them. And categorically refusing to join a guild is a (perfectly valid) player choice, not a flaw in the system.
People have invested time and money into building trading communities and bringing players together. It shouldn't come as a surprise that members of those communities don't want to see measures that might break them apart. Painting such players as self-serving and selfish is a bad faith approach to discuss this topic.

Horny_Poney · December 5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Horny_Poney wrote: »

What ruins the overall experience far more is having to visit 288 fracking traders to find 1 thing. That’s not what I call fun. An auction house is the only way.

You don't. Almost every item can be found in the base game capital cities of the alliances (Stormhaven, Grahtwood, and Mournhold) or the capital city of the various dlc, especially Vvardenfell and Alinor.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times that I found something in some small area that wasn't also on the big traders from the 10 years that I have been playing. It's not that it never happens but it's very rare and only for extremely rare items. The vast majority of people who are selling the stuff worth having also are in a trading guild. The other guild stores are mostly just casual sellers pawning off whatever they happened to find while playing the game.

There's a lot of FOMO in this thread being passed around as actual difficulty finding things. But, it's actually really easy to find the vast majority of items already.

That’s what i do, i visit main cities + Vivic + Alinor and it’s not enough, because i look for rare items most of the time, like furnishing plans. Yes sometimes i find things in major cities, but from time to time i hear people from my guilds warning us that there are interesting things in other places.

magnusthorek · December 5

While I can't comment on the trader bidding part, I can say one thing: GW2 has a centralized players' market where everything is at one single place, controlled by an in-game "company" that takes a good parcel of the values we sell, and I can say that's terrible.

However, going trader to trader like in ESO, especially those tucked away inside Outlaws' Refugees, is also bad. TTC website alleviates this issue, but personally, I feel it always so outdated I often don't find things I'm looking for.

So why not make it the best of the two worlds? Why not create a new entry on cities' banks, like "Global Market". Such feature would open a UI listing items from all guilds, listing items by time posted by default, with a search filter for item name, sorting arrows by time/price, for Players' convenience?

After all, all of this is data you (most likely) already have. Put it all together in an API of sorts (if you don't have it yet) and consume it. Perhaps all those add-ons that manage Guilds' market data would become obsolete. Or perhaps it'll ease the bandwidth stress on your servers. On a (very) superficial analysis, all I can see is good things for both sides.

ApoAlaia · December 5

I for one love the idea of being a guild typhoon.

Dis me now:

twisttop138 · December 5

kotisovich wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

As a swtor player that came here many years ago, I still think the guild trader system is not good. Beware though, nothing brings out the master debaters like dissing the trader system.

Is swtor still alive? Left game shortly alfte they removed phase walk from assassin

It is I hear. I left in 2016 when my computer broke and got a PS4. I got a computer again but never went back. I went to ESO on console launch and never looked back. It's still there though.

DinoZavr · December 5

in my humble understanding:
the root cause why ESO uses the "distributed" system is the lack of computing capacity.
hosting a huge "auction house" database, serving thousands of simultaneous queries require really good hardware, which, i speculate, Zemimax lacks of

the benefit of ESO approach is 280+ bids (which start with 15K) a week - which are (most likely) the biggest ingame gold sink
the bids for traders situated at the top-traffic spots (Mounhold, Elden Root) exceed 100M+ at PC EU at this moment
so, sometimes (when guild members do not sell enough to cover the bid expenses), Guild Masters have to purchase Crowns and sell the later for gold - just to keep owning a hot spot
(which is, again, a profit for game-makers)

Interestingly enough, but noone yet mentioned EVE Online.
trade spots are also distributed (and the most popular one in Jita star system required CCP to use a separate high performance server due to very high utilization, caused by thousands of players simultaneous activity), though it does not require to bid to be able to trade - player just pays a fee to the house (isk (gold) sink).
BUT - EVE has the integration. Within a zone (which includes hundreds of systems) you can search for any goods you want and the inagme engine displays you not only the current locations and prices, but monthly statistics including volumes trades, min, max, and median prices, plus trends. So you select the certain system which has (as you decide) the best offer and autopilot there.
Players decided Jita system is the most reachable, bit still there are lesser hubs which are also very active.

The thing (market search and stats) Zeni could implement in game (like one for AD, another for DC, third for EP, and the fourth for Neutral and DLC zones) - IF they had enough computing and fast storage capacity.
This would keep traders bids system, but resolve the issue that players have to depend on TTC / ATT / MM information, because the game itself is insufficient (or should i say "half-baked") for 11 years so far.

edit: typos

Gabriel_H · December 5

magnusthorek wrote: »

While I can't comment on the trader bidding part, I can say one thing: GW2 has a centralized players' market where everything is at one single place, controlled by an in-game "company" that takes a good parcel of the values we sell, and I can say that's terrible.

However, going trader to trader like in ESO, especially those tucked away inside Outlaws' Refugees, is also bad. TTC website alleviates this issue, but personally, I feel it always so outdated I often don't find things I'm looking for.

So why not make it the best of the two worlds? Why not create a new entry on cities' banks, like "Global Market". Such feature would open a UI listing items from all guilds, listing items by time posted by default, with a search filter for item name, sorting arrows by time/price, for Players' convenience?

After all, all of this is data you (most likely) already have. Put it all together in an API of sorts (if you don't have it yet) and consume it. Perhaps all those add-ons that manage Guilds' market data would become obsolete. Or perhaps it'll ease the bandwidth stress on your servers. On a (very) superficial analysis, all I can see is good things for both sides.

GW2 uses a web browser to achieve it's global listing. It has several persistent bugs as it's integration, being a web browser within the game code, is problematic. Among the non-bug problems are things like limitations on number of listings in a short time frame, as well as a limit on the number of items that can be displayed at any one time. In addition to that, some things are stored client side which means despite being the same account you lose some settings if you use a different device (i.e. PC/laptop).

SerafinaWaterstar · December 5

Faltasë wrote: »

ofc the people in the ESO forum are the first to fight for a system that only benefits stockbroker hobbyists, cosplaying businesspeople and people who don't want to play the actual game but instead wanna focus on a system that loopholes to... literally no end goal. What are these gold hoarders and guild typhoons going to provide or progress for the game as a whole? The money they spend surely goes to useful progression if you are investing in your account(motifs, furniture), but clearly it doesn't have an end goal besides trading it endlessly into other trades that they then trade endlessly into a void... where the end of the MMO and their uncanny money sinks don't really accomplish anything but "i build the ESO economy with my smarts!"

I get that the way the system is right now is just a "natural" formulation to the system that they put in place, but it doesn't make the system a good system. I think OP is right. Why do we need to rely on an addon? Why is that not an in game feature? There not being a central auction house is a problem, and the economy in ESO does not need to be so inflated that a single guild trader costs upwards of 15 mil.

You know who has 15 mil in the game? People who have been trading from the start and don't do anything else but trade. That isn't exactly accessibility.

And another thing, most guilds that are trading guilds are just the same people operating all of the guilds. Like a big in game monopoly... for crying out loud.

So of course people who benefit from this system are going to love it. They're good at it, and don't want to see it change. That's not a valid argument for why it shouldn't change.

Politely disagree with everything you say.

I have over 15 million, but I am not a mad trader. Some weeks I even forget to fill my slots in my trading guild. And I basically only sell motifs.

3 of my guilds are social guilds & work on donations only but they manage to get traders. So not difficult, like the OP suggests.

And if I desperately want something? Then I go shopping. Doesn’t take that much time. And you can find interesting bargains at out of the way traders, thus spreading the gold around in a way one main auction house would not allow.

Changing the current system to the one place only system would be an unnecessary waste of time and resources. And would create a whole new set of issues & complaints.