Sarannah wrote: »

ZOS is leaning towards option one. Which is to keep grey host and have a vengeance campaign running at the same time. And that they can't fix the performance issues in grey host without massive buildcompromises. But grey host does not seem to be going anywhere.

• ZoS told us it was a test when it wasn't. Gaslit us for months.
• ZoS is trying to sell us rigged and skewed data to show how many people loved the Golden Pursuits Vengeance Campaign.
• ZoS cooked adjusted the numbers on the Writhing Wall at least three separate times.

Why TF would I ever believe, now after all this, that they're actually talkin' truth? That the really, really, do wanna keep GH.
The last year has been 97% lies and disappointment. Trust is broken. It's too late.

Edit to add: ZoS sold a French localization that hasn't yet manifested, they've ignored requests for comment, and this may become a legal issue. - More untrustworthiness.

minnowfaun wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

ZOS is leaning towards option one. Which is to keep grey host and have a vengeance campaign running at the same time. And that they can't fix the performance issues in grey host without massive buildcompromises. But grey host does not seem to be going anywhere.

• ZoS told us it was a test when it wasn't. Gaslit us for months.
• ZoS is trying to sell us rigged and skewed data to show how many people loved the Golden Pursuits Vengeance Campaign.
• ZoS cooked adjusted the numbers on the Writhing Wall at least three separate times.

Why TF would I ever believe, now after all this, that they're actually talkin' truth? That the really, really, do wanna keep GH.
The last year has been 97% lies and disappointment. Trust is broken. It's too late.

Doubt this happened as you think, especially after everything that went wrong during the writhing wall event. You can't on one hand think they can't do anything right, and on the other hand claim there was some kind of masterplan which they executed perfectly. I think the answer is much simpler: ZOS did actually intend vengeance as a test adding more and more into Cyrodiil to find the cause of the performance issues, but after seeing the overwhelmingly positive feedback for vengeance decided it could actually be a way forward. Especially in combination with the fact that they state the grey host PvP style as is can't be fixed, which is only stated now after years of trying to fix it.

Who knows what will happen when vengeance and grey host run side-by-side longterm. Vengeance could not be sustainable population-wise, grey host may lose players to vengeance and not be sustainable, both modes could end up with too low playernumbers, or both modes could each have their own separate target populations and thrive independently. The last one is what I suspect may happen, and is most likely to happen. I think grey host may lose a handful of players to vengeance, but I also think vengeance attracts an audience different enough to not really harm grey host and can become it's own PvP thing.

Most often the simpler explanation is the correct one.

PS: The way grey host is now, low population and still dropping players, is not sustainable. Something has to be done, or ESO may end up without any large scale PvP at all.

LPapirius wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

No, they're not going to keep Grey Host. They said very clearly they're aren't even going to try to fix it. Read the OP.

Correction: The OP/ZOS post states two possible options, and that ZOS is leaning towards option one. Which is to keep grey host and have a vengeance campaign running at the same time. And that they can't fix the performance issues in grey host without massive buildcompromises. But grey host does not seem to be going anywhere.

Amongst the players, there seems to be practically noone who wants grey host taken away. Even those who do not like grey host.

LPapirius wrote: »

No, everyone who's going to PvP is already doing so. Vengeance will not bring in 10% of of the players it will drive out of the game.

Maybe, maybe not. The difference in audiences may actually lead to a new population for a healthy vengeance campaign. As also stated in the OP, vengeance was received quite positive based on the survey. If the survey for vengeance was positive but grey host PvPers are overwhelmingly against vengeance, that means there is a new population that differs from the current PvP population that actually likes vengeance.

Not only that, but having vengeance running will allow ZOS to advertise massive scale PvP with hundreds of players without any performance issues again. Which ups the entire marketing for the game, which now often seems negative due to the performance issues on grey host. Changing the outside marketing view of the game towards a more positive one, including in PvP.

There seems to be no negatives to having both vengeance and grey host running at the same time.

SneaK wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

They are going to keep both Vengeance and Grey Host up and people will just choose wherever they want to play. Should they just leave broken Grey Host up forever so that ESO PvP rapidly dies? What do you exactly want? People dont want to bother with Grey Host and its broken PvP. The population is so low there is almost never 3 bars anymore except maybe 1 hour a day and there are no queues anymore. Just let the ESO PvP be more like similar to how a modern MMO should be and how it is out there for every other sane game. 0.25 sec reaction times, and 6 different skills hitting at the same time isnt it, not for a MMO. ESO PvP with its current state is a chaotic mess, it is not a design choice. Vengeance is a try to fix it. Doesnt really matter if 100 ESO PvP veterans that are so used to abusing broken gameplay mechanics will quit or not, Vengeance could possibly attract 1000s of new players.

You will quit ESO and which game you will play then? There are no other mainstream PvP game on the market that has that many broken combat gameplay mechanics ESO PvP currently has. At some point you will have to learn to play on an equal field if you want to continue doing PvP in online gaming and not just stacking every OP proc set that the newest patch introduced and every OP damage skill line, then just press a single button whole fight and call it "build diversity".

Seems like you’re saying balance is what has driven people away……

Not balance, but the massive hurdle of months or training/gearing to even be able to start to PvPing in this game(balance would only come in play after this). Balance and hurdle are two very different things. Balance only comes into play when both sides are on equal footing to begin with, which is another thing vengeance provided.

The OP did type the sentence you highlighted. But that's not what they said. Reading comprehension skills are paramount here. The statement that they aren't going to even try to fix normal live Cyrodiil going forward is the action statement in their post. That means scenario 2 is the target their aiming for.

Actually no, they are stating they can't fix the performance issues without buildcompromises. No longer trying to fix the performance issues does not mean the mode won't be supported. It is just that this one thing, fixing the performance, is an impossible task. I'm assuming they will still fix future bugs or issues or server problems in grey host, just not the already known performance issues.

Not fixing the performance is not scrapping the entire mode. You seem to be reading more into that statement than there is. Maybe this is something ZOS could clarify, especially if I am mistaken. But unless they specifically state they won't support the entire grey host mode anymore, there is no reason to suspect they won't.

And it will probably depend on the grey host population itself, on if they will decide to keep that mode available.