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Dont deactivate normal Cyrodiil or respectfully i will not play any title with a zenimax brand anymo
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Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think that this is an overblown reaction that lacks a lot of nuance. The Vengeance environment is far closer to a balanced and fun PvP experience than live Cyrodiil is.
I think that if Vengeance:
- Adjusted healing/damage/max health
- Added pure stat based sets only (Julianos is an example)
- Introduced snare removal and movement speed skills
- Added more complexity to burst skills (like making the merciless resolve proc require 5 light attacks)
Then it would actually be a pretty enjoyable PvP experience. It still wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a massive improvement over the current Vengeance and live Cyrodiil.
The best thing about all of this, is that those changes are actually easy to make and it wouldn't effect PvE environments whatsoever. Vengeance is a hard separation between PvP and PvE so it's an environment that allows for PvP specific balancing. This something that has been needed since the beginning. On top of that, subclassing isn't in Vengeance and they could even make it an environment where hybridization isn't a thing either.
Now I'm not naive, I don't have much faith that the Vengeance environment will be handled correctly so that it could live up to it's potential. However, I think getting Vengeance right is a FAR easier task for ZOS than getting live Cyrodiil right. Think about how much they would literally have to undo to fix live PvP. They also would have to keep PvE in mind while they try since live PvP isn't separate like Vengeance is.
Vengeance is ZOS' best shot at getting PvP to a decent place. Live Cyrodiil does not hold enough people these days, and it attracts even fewer. PvP is at the end of it's road right now. Even if they scrap Vengeance like you want, Cyrodiil will still be dead, laggy, and far too big. You are essentially trying to preserve a corpse.
So I encourage all the people who are extremely anti-Vengeance to see the bigger picture. It could be the foundation of a great PvP experience with some very easy to make changes. We would also no longer have to worry about PvE balancing impacting PvP. It's unlikely that ZOS will get it right, but there's not many options anymore. Either you guys let PvP take it's final breaths and have ZOS do nothing, or you support this latch ditch effort. They aren't fixing the disaster that is live Cyrodiil though, it's just too far gone.PC NA and Xbox NA4 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think that this is an overblown reaction that lacks a lot of nuance. The Vengeance environment is far closer to a balanced and fun PvP experience than live Cyrodiil is.
A lot of the issue with “Vengeance is a more balanced experience” is the fact that the balance is currently in the toilet because of ZOS’s extremely questionable decisions and complete disregard for any PTS feedback. And this doesn’t affect only PvP - Subclassing also made PvE balance into an utter joke.
I actually wonder if, considering this “new mode” and IC and BGs all still use the standard skills, if Vengeance will be the “drop and forget” mode. I could see them releasing Vengeance as is and only adding to it in the case that we get e.g. a new Class, while still trying to balance the rest of the game with their standard skills.
…though the pace of balance we’ve had since U46 has left me disappointed, to say the least.4 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I haven’t seen the post that this thread is referring to yet, but I am concerned about another Vengeance test because the last one had so few players and yet the performance was horrendous, worse than Gray Host.
Have they figured out why the last test was worse or are they just marching on with more additions to break it further?
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭katanagirl1 wrote: »I haven’t seen the post that this thread is referring to yet, but I am concerned about another Vengeance test because the last one had so few players and yet the performance was horrendous, worse than Gray Host.
Have they figured out why the last test was worse or are they just marching on with more additions to break it further?
Top of General.
They are considering one of two options.
Option 1: Vengeance and Grayhost, no other campaigns.
Option 2: Vengeance and no other campaigns.
Despite “wanting” Option 1, they have announced that they have given up on trying to fix Grayhost. That it is an impossible task, and are encouraging people to just play the permanent Vengeance campaign, confirming to everyone… that it was not just a test.Edited by Radiate77 on November 26, 2025 6:26AM1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think that this is an overblown reaction that lacks a lot of nuance. The Vengeance environment is far closer to a balanced and fun PvP experience than live Cyrodiil is.
Vengeance is closer to 2016 Cyro than it is to 2025 Cyro. The same 2016 Cyro the old PvP veterans who left the game long ago and pine for, but who say Vengeance is trash.
Of course, the reality of Cyro's history is very different: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658524/the-glory-days-of-cyrodiilPC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭katanagirl1 wrote: »I haven’t seen the post that this thread is referring to yet, but I am concerned about another Vengeance test because the last one had so few players and yet the performance was horrendous, worse than Gray Host.
Have they figured out why the last test was worse or are they just marching on with more additions to break it further?
They added more skill lines but kept the player cap at 300 per alliance (for context they confirmed the player cap on Live is 120 per alliance).PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭katanagirl1 wrote: »I haven’t seen the post that this thread is referring to yet, but I am concerned about another Vengeance test because the last one had so few players and yet the performance was horrendous, worse than Gray Host.
Have they figured out why the last test was worse or are they just marching on with more additions to break it further?
Top of General.
They are considering one of two options.
Option 1: Vengeance and Grayhost, no other campaigns.
Option 2: Vengeance and no other campaigns.
Despite “wanting” Option 1, they have announced that they have given up on trying to fix Grayhost. That it is an impossible task, and are encouraging people to just play the permanent Vengeance campaign, confirming to everyone… that it was not just a test.
Almost like anyone with above room temp IQ could predict that Vengeance wasn't "only a test" from the start...feeling psychic.....😁
On a serious note. My guess is that Vengeance is most likely a preparation for future cross-play to allow older gen consoles to function when cross-play eventually happens. Vengeance has too much effort put into it to just be a simple "we wanna fix performance" project.
And anyone that can read between the lines will realise that option 1 isn't really an option. I don't see them having one campaign with 360 players, one campaign with 900 players, imperial city, battlegrounds and a new pvp mode. Battlegrounds and IC won't be removed for obvious reasons and they already announced a new pvp mode is coming (which they even said will be designedfor those who like the current GH PvP setting)....that leaves GH as the thing to get rid off.
Even with crossplay there won't be enough of a population to support all different modes, assuming you want a decently pooulated PvP outside of events.Edited by Major_Mangle on November 26, 2025 10:00AMPs4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -1 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major_Mangle wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »I haven’t seen the post that this thread is referring to yet, but I am concerned about another Vengeance test because the last one had so few players and yet the performance was horrendous, worse than Gray Host.
Have they figured out why the last test was worse or are they just marching on with more additions to break it further?
Top of General.
They are considering one of two options.
Option 1: Vengeance and Grayhost, no other campaigns.
Option 2: Vengeance and no other campaigns.
Despite “wanting” Option 1, they have announced that they have given up on trying to fix Grayhost. That it is an impossible task, and are encouraging people to just play the permanent Vengeance campaign, confirming to everyone… that it was not just a test.
Almost like anyone with above room temp IQ could predict that Vengeance wasn't "only a test" from the start...feeling psychic.....😁
On a serious note. My guess is that Vengeance is most likely a preparation for future cross-play to allow older gen consoles to function when cross-play eventually happens. Vengeance has too much effort put into it to just be a simple "we wanna fix performance" project.
And anyone that can read between the lines will realise that option 1 isn't really an option. I don't see them having one campaign with 360 players, one campaign with 900 players, imperial city, battlegrounds and a new pvp mode. Even with crossplay there won't be enough of a population to support all different modes, assuming you want a decently pooulated PvP outside of events.
They should eventually just not aim for 900 people pvp ?
Who needs that ? We had ''360'' for years and were fine.
Why not just aim for maybe a cap of 600 in total and STILL try to improve performance?
I dont get why it has to be all or nothingPS EU0
