Class Rework? 2025

Xarc · November 23

I would say, in order:

1. Necromancer (complete rework needed, without subclassing it's not viable)
2. Arcanist (the whole class is about beam, nerfing it includes to rework the whole class)
3. Nightblade (mag version for pvp is weak as f. if you do not play bomber or méga-tank it's unplayble)

Gabriel_H · November 23

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Templars class mastery for Scribing is only useful to healers and tanks, since it requires sacred ground and thats only available in one templar skill line... the one dps gets rid of.

Eh? Templar class mastery is junk for tanks. The extra resistance isn't needed and the extra WD/SD is all but meaningless.

For a sub-classed DD the extra resistance offsets the loss of survivability passives and the extra WD/SD is useful. Sacred Ground is not needed for the class mastery, it simply provides an additionla boost of 50% more.

JinKC98 · November 24

Instead of class, I would suggest reworking skill lines almost no one uses like Shadow, Living Death, Draconic Power, etc.

Radiate77 · November 24

JinKC98 wrote: »

Instead of class, I would suggest reworking skill lines almost no one uses like Shadow, Living Death, Draconic Power, etc.

There are not enough Poll Options for that.

Erickson9610 · November 24

Gabriel_H wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Templars class mastery for Scribing is only useful to healers and tanks, since it requires sacred ground and thats only available in one templar skill line... the one dps gets rid of.

Eh? Templar class mastery is junk for tanks. The extra resistance isn't needed and the extra WD/SD is all but meaningless.

For a sub-classed DD the extra resistance offsets the loss of survivability passives and the extra WD/SD is useful. Sacred Ground is not needed for the class mastery, it simply provides an additionla boost of 50% more.

The 50% boost should be removed, or baked into the base WD/SD and Armor.

Class Mastery should not explicitly mention Class abilities/passives whatsoever, because that is extremely limiting.

Destai · November 24

Mesite wrote: »

I always struggled to find 10 dragon knight skills that I liked. Maybe Dragonknight needs a beam. (Just joking)

Even though you're joking, I'm kinda there. There was a time where I really liked them. They're one of those classes where there's a few really fun skills and the rest just don't vibe with me. I like Cauterize, Ash Storm, Molten Whip, and Igneous Weapons. That's really it. I love their passives, I want to use them on a bow class, but the skills feel really off for that playstyle for me.

Radiate77 · November 24

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Templars class mastery for Scribing is only useful to healers and tanks, since it requires sacred ground and thats only available in one templar skill line... the one dps gets rid of.

Eh? Templar class mastery is junk for tanks. The extra resistance isn't needed and the extra WD/SD is all but meaningless.

For a sub-classed DD the extra resistance offsets the loss of survivability passives and the extra WD/SD is useful. Sacred Ground is not needed for the class mastery, it simply provides an additionla boost of 50% more.

The 50% boost should be removed, or baked into the base WD/SD and Armor.

Class Mastery should not explicitly mention Class abilities/passives whatsoever, because that is extremely limiting.

While controversial, I enjoy the design of the Warden Script, where it doesn’t just provide a stat bonus, it actively changes the way a Script performs. While right now it feels too strong, if other classes had their own comparable version, it wouldn’t feel anywhere near as bad.

For example, the Templar Script, I would love to see something akin to the Meridia set, where it causes you to dodge all incoming attacks for a set amount of time, or make it function like a cheap version of Blinding Flashes.

Either way, definitely agree with the Mastery feeling too restrictive in it’s current iteration.

spartaxoxo · November 24

I think the class in most need of a rework is the necromancer. It's too clunky to use compared to other classes. And all that effort isn't particularly well rewarded.

Radiate77 · November 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think the class in most need of a rework is the necromancer. It's too clunky to use compared to other classes. And all that effort isn't particularly well rewarded.

Right, kind of a hard balance between Elsweyr when the class had to be strong for sales, with the justification of added mechanics to give the class it’s power, with now where all of it’s additional strength has been stripped.

Gabriel_H · November 24

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Templars class mastery for Scribing is only useful to healers and tanks, since it requires sacred ground and thats only available in one templar skill line... the one dps gets rid of.

Eh? Templar class mastery is junk for tanks. The extra resistance isn't needed and the extra WD/SD is all but meaningless.

For a sub-classed DD the extra resistance offsets the loss of survivability passives and the extra WD/SD is useful. Sacred Ground is not needed for the class mastery, it simply provides an additionla boost of 50% more.

The 50% boost should be removed, or baked into the base WD/SD and Armor.

Class Mastery should not explicitly mention Class abilities/passives whatsoever, because that is extremely limiting.

It's one way to boost the power of a pure class vs sub-class. Removing that makes the pure class even weaker.

Erickson9610 · November 24

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Templars class mastery for Scribing is only useful to healers and tanks, since it requires sacred ground and thats only available in one templar skill line... the one dps gets rid of.

Eh? Templar class mastery is junk for tanks. The extra resistance isn't needed and the extra WD/SD is all but meaningless.

For a sub-classed DD the extra resistance offsets the loss of survivability passives and the extra WD/SD is useful. Sacred Ground is not needed for the class mastery, it simply provides an additionla boost of 50% more.

The 50% boost should be removed, or baked into the base WD/SD and Armor.

Class Mastery should not explicitly mention Class abilities/passives whatsoever, because that is extremely limiting.

It's one way to boost the power of a pure class vs sub-class. Removing that makes the pure class even weaker.

Then every Class Mastery should require specific skills to achieve the maximum benefit. For instance, maybe the Warden charm only happens when you have the Maturation passive active from the Green Balance skill line, or Arcanists only generate a Crux when they have the Circumvented Fate passive active from the Soldier of Apocrypha skill line.

Erickson9610 · November 24

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Templars class mastery for Scribing is only useful to healers and tanks, since it requires sacred ground and thats only available in one templar skill line... the one dps gets rid of.

Eh? Templar class mastery is junk for tanks. The extra resistance isn't needed and the extra WD/SD is all but meaningless.

For a sub-classed DD the extra resistance offsets the loss of survivability passives and the extra WD/SD is useful. Sacred Ground is not needed for the class mastery, it simply provides an additionla boost of 50% more.

The 50% boost should be removed, or baked into the base WD/SD and Armor.

Class Mastery should not explicitly mention Class abilities/passives whatsoever, because that is extremely limiting.

Alternatively, replace the Sacred Ground requirement with "while channeling an ability", since the Templar Class is full of channeled abilities, and that's reflected in the Restoring Light skill line. Just don't explicitly require specific abilities to get the maximum benefit.

nb_rich · November 24

I feel like the base classes need to have there skills and passives re-arranged to match new/dlc classes idea of having dps, tank and healing focused skill lines. At this current moment, most of us use the same exact skill lines for every role because only a few skill lines have both skills and passives that support a specific role.

If the skills and passives cant be re-arranged then I think the whole class system needs to be removed and changed to a system similar to champion points. I don't see a point to classes when we have the same skill lines. For example my Templar and Arcanist have the same exact skill lines equipped (dawns wrath, herold of the tome and animal companion) so how can one be identified as a Templar and one be a Arcanist ? For people that like to play a pure class can be rewarded with a strong passive that only is applied if you decide to only use skills/passives from one class (similar to call of duty when it comes to perks). Class sets can then also be buffed and should only be useable if you are using skills/passives from one class. Once again it makes no sense I have multiple classes with the same skill lines but cannot use class sets just because I started off a specific class.

Either way something needs to change because ever since these class changes the game has been very boring since everyone is pretty much the same build at this point.

Gabriel_H · November 24

nb_rich wrote: »

I feel like the base classes need to have there skills and passives re-arranged to match new/dlc classes idea of having dps, tank and healing focused skill lines. At this current moment, most of us use the same exact skill lines for every role because only a few skill lines have both skills and passives that support a specific role.

This wouldn't work. It's not just the lines that are mixed, it's the skills too. Example: Cleansing Ritual - which line would this be in? Healing or DD - beacause it can be used in both depending on the morph. Or Rune Focus - is useful for all 3 roles. LIght Weaver passive - great for healing and tanking. The list goes on.

A simple re-arrange would break the class. It would need a complete re-work from top to bottom, which could still end up breaking the class.

Radiate77 · November 24

Arcanist is starting to catch up to Nightblade!

Have to say, the biggest surprise of this poll, has been that Arcanist was not #1 or #2 as the most voted for Rework.

Then again, Consuming Darkness is pretty strange, so that makes sense too.

theoverseer · November 24

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Necromancer needs a complete overhaul imo.

This. I just brought my necro out of semi-retirement for the event and she was so lacklustre in combat I had to check that I hadn't forgotten to apply her champion points.

Anumaril · November 24

Easily Necromancer, but (at least in my opinion) its more to do with class fantasy than damage output. It just doesn't feel like a "necromancer" at all, rather like a dark wizard. I know ZOS was trying to be unique by creating a new take on necromancy in fantasy, but it just falls flat on its face when the existing necromancy fantasy in the Elder Scrolls series can already be seen in-game and feels 100% cooler.

Minions need to become a bigger part of the class overall (as DD, Healer, and even Tank). I've posted at length about what this should specifically look like in other forum threads, but my god is it sorely needed with this class.

Radiate77 · November 24

Anumaril wrote: »

Minions need to become a bigger part of the class overall (as DD, Healer, and even Tank). I've posted at length about what this should specifically look like in other forum threads, but my god is it sorely needed with this class.

I never got to read your write-up, what would you change specifically?

I have always felt that Necromancer lacked melee minions, personally.

Radiate77 · November 24

Man… Arcanist is really creeping up on Nightblade.

It’s neck and neck, can’t wait to see who wins #3 spot when we reach 100 votes!

Necrotech_Master · November 24

i think my 2 choices for this would be nightblade or necromancer

nightblade suffers from a lot of problems (no skills that activate major buffs, major buffs that do activate dont last as long as other classes, at least 1 ultimate that is absolute pure garbage), not to mention pretty much not great to play in pve (most people will pull assassination line for dps, or siphoning maybe for tanks or heals)

necromancers while i dont like them at least can function better i think than NBs

Turtle_Bot · November 25

Anumaril wrote: »

Easily Necromancer, but (at least in my opinion) its more to do with class fantasy than damage output. It just doesn't feel like a "necromancer" at all, rather like a dark wizard. I know ZOS was trying to be unique by creating a new take on necromancy in fantasy, but it just falls flat on its face when the existing necromancy fantasy in the Elder Scrolls series can already be seen in-game and feels 100% cooler.

Minions need to become a bigger part of the class overall (as DD, Healer, and even Tank). I've posted at length about what this should specifically look like in other forum threads, but my god is it sorely needed with this class.

This has been a big issue I've always had with the way ZOS tried to implement Necro and how they heavily canibalised Sorc's Mage theme to do so.

ZOS had their best opportunity when releasing Necro to untether Sorcerer from the "Summoner" sub-theme it had and allow Sorcerer to focus entirely on being ESO's main "Mage" class that has plenty of it's own sub-themes outside of Summoner (battlemage/stam version, elemental mage, arcane mage, etc), while Necro would become ESO's main "Summoner" class where the main focus is the minions, using magic to summon/empower them (Warden could still be the pseudo summoner druid class it currently can be with nature theme from the animal companions line).

Necro has always been the typical "Summoner" or "Minion" class in fantasy games (alongside druid, but with the death theme instead of a nature theme) and Sorcerer the typical "Mage" or "Wizard" class, but it really does feel like ZOS tried to force Necro into being a dark mage instead of a necromancer, but then realised they still needed a summoner class, so forced sorcerer into that role despite sorcerer literally having a line called "Dark Magic" and Sorcerers typically only having 1 familiar at most that is there to assist the Sorcerer with their Arcane Magic rather than a whole array of summons that the Sorcerer then revolves their entire magic around.

TL//DR:
Agree with you that ZOS destroyed Necro class fantasy by trying to be "Unique" when creating the Necro class, but adding that they also destroyed the Sorc class fantasy in that same process.

Jestir · November 25

Idk what they can do at this point but necromancer still feels very rough to play

But mainly I would want some of the individual skill lines like dark magic, draconic power, and shadow brought up to par

I would like to see the death of the worthless "increase these skills uptime by x seconds" as they are pretty much worthless with how this should be built into in the skills themselves

Personally I would like the aedric spear line looked at in PvE it has 1 skill actually worth casting in jabs. Spear shards and morphs has follow behind the times, the spear throw has a place in PvP but the other 2 skills just are bad + niche

Radiate77 · November 25

Jestir wrote: »

Idk what they can do at this point but necromancer still feels very rough to play

But mainly I would want some of the individual skill lines like dark magic, draconic power, and shadow brought up to par

I would like to see the death of the worthless "increase these skills uptime by x seconds" as they are pretty much worthless with how this should be built into in the skills themselves

Personally I would like the aedric spear line looked at in PvE it has 1 skill actually worth casting in jabs. Spear shards and morphs has follow behind the times, the spear throw has a place in PvP but the other 2 skills just are bad + niche

Agreed, Dark Magic, Draconic Power, and Shadow, are all extremely niché and don’t see much usage at all; I would love to see that changed.

Radiate77 · November 25

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Anumaril wrote: »

Easily Necromancer, but (at least in my opinion) its more to do with class fantasy than damage output. It just doesn't feel like a "necromancer" at all, rather like a dark wizard. I know ZOS was trying to be unique by creating a new take on necromancy in fantasy, but it just falls flat on its face when the existing necromancy fantasy in the Elder Scrolls series can already be seen in-game and feels 100% cooler.

Minions need to become a bigger part of the class overall (as DD, Healer, and even Tank). I've posted at length about what this should specifically look like in other forum threads, but my god is it sorely needed with this class.

This has been a big issue I've always had with the way ZOS tried to implement Necro and how they heavily canibalised Sorc's Mage theme to do so.

ZOS had their best opportunity when releasing Necro to untether Sorcerer from the "Summoner" sub-theme it had and allow Sorcerer to focus entirely on being ESO's main "Mage" class that has plenty of it's own sub-themes outside of Summoner (battlemage/stam version, elemental mage, arcane mage, etc), while Necro would become ESO's main "Summoner" class where the main focus is the minions, using magic to summon/empower them (Warden could still be the pseudo summoner druid class it currently can be with nature theme from the animal companions line).

Necro has always been the typical "Summoner" or "Minion" class in fantasy games (alongside druid, but with the death theme instead of a nature theme) and Sorcerer the typical "Mage" or "Wizard" class, but it really does feel like ZOS tried to force Necro into being a dark mage instead of a necromancer, but then realised they still needed a summoner class, so forced sorcerer into that role despite sorcerer literally having a line called "Dark Magic" and Sorcerers typically only having 1 familiar at most that is there to assist the Sorcerer with their Arcane Magic rather than a whole array of summons that the Sorcerer then revolves their entire magic around.

TL//DR:
Agree with you that ZOS destroyed Necro class fantasy by trying to be "Unique" when creating the Necro class, but adding that they also destroyed the Sorc class fantasy in that same process.

My favorite has been Halloween Wizard.

Anumaril · November 25

Radiate77 wrote: »

I never got to read your write-up, what would you change specifically?

I have always felt that Necromancer lacked melee minions, personally.

The gist of it is that being a necromancer should mean doing the necromancy we've grown accustomed to seeing in the Elder Scrolls series, which revolves around raising the dead. At the moment we have 2 "proper" minions: the Skeletal Mage/Archer and the Spirit Healer. This doesn't feel very necromancer-y. The class really needs a proper rework, not just tweaking skills.

I'll begin with class design. The whole class should rely more on minions to do what it does. For damage-dealing this should mean summoning temporary minions to do the bulk of your damage, each being on, say, a 10–15s timer so you need to re-summon them. Multiple DD skill slots should be dedicated to minions (e.g., ranged minions + melee minions), with others consisting of one spammable and some skills to empower your minions. To boost the "undead horde" fantasy you could actually combine all this into a single ability which raises a random skeletal minion from a nearby corpse, up to a maximum of 4 minions, each with the aforementioned 10–15s lifespan.

For healing I think it should be much the same: instead of the necromancer doing the direct healing, it's the minions. The Spirit Healer already does this surprisingly well, so we've got a workable template that can be expanded. Again, the necromancer can then focus on amplifying this healing, directing the minion who specifically to focus on (or what area), or even allowing the necromancer to force the minion to use certain special abilities like burst heals, etc.

For tanking I'd focus on one particular minion rather than multiple, e.g., maybe a permanent minion which forces all other minions to be un-summoned (to prevent too many minions being active at once). The tank necro then uses their abilities to heal, empower, and boost the defence of their tank minion, with a lot of control over where it goes and how it behaves. An interesting ulti here could be a "possession" where the player takes direct control of the tank minion so the camera follows it, giving you a full range of new skills unique to the tank minion while your host body is given a damage shield.
__________________________________________________________

But apart from all that, I think something needs to change with how we use corpses. Right now we summon a minion from a portal, and actually generate a corpse from them. This just feels... wrong. We should be raising the dead, not summoning them from another dimension. It should be the other way around: our non-minion abilities or passives should in some way generate corpses, and then we consume those corpses to raise a minion. Currently the only spell that works this way is the healing line ultimate where you raise a bunch of Blastbone skeletons at once from corpses. That is the ONLY ability in the whole class that makes me feel like a proper necromancer because its the only ability where I'm properly raising the dead.

Yes, this means the class will have a higher wind-up than others to reach its peak damage-dealing potential. But this can be alleviated in other ways by making corpse-generation possible through non-minion abilities or passives. Or it could just be an accepted part of the class (not all classes need to behave the same, after all), with the Necromancer class having a higher wind-up time but more consistent damage in the long-run.

Radiate77 · November 25

Anumaril wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

I never got to read your write-up, what would you change specifically?

I have always felt that Necromancer lacked melee minions, personally.

The gist of it is that being a necromancer should mean doing the necromancy we've grown accustomed to seeing in the Elder Scrolls series, which revolves around raising the dead. At the moment we have 2 "proper" minions: the Skeletal Mage/Archer and the Spirit Healer. This doesn't feel very necromancer-y. The class really needs a proper rework, not just tweaking skills.

I'll begin with class design. The whole class should rely more on minions to do what it does. For damage-dealing this should mean summoning temporary minions to do the bulk of your damage, each being on, say, a 10–15s timer so you need to re-summon them. Multiple DD skill slots should be dedicated to minions (e.g., ranged minions + melee minions), with others consisting of one spammable and some skills to empower your minions. To boost the "undead horde" fantasy you could actually combine all this into a single ability which raises a random skeletal minion from a nearby corpse, up to a maximum of 4 minions, each with the aforementioned 10–15s lifespan.

For healing I think it should be much the same: instead of the necromancer doing the direct healing, it's the minions. The Spirit Healer already does this surprisingly well, so we've got a workable template that can be expanded. Again, the necromancer can then focus on amplifying this healing, directing the minion who specifically to focus on (or what area), or even allowing the necromancer to force the minion to use certain special abilities like burst heals, etc.

For tanking I'd focus on one particular minion rather than multiple, e.g., maybe a permanent minion which forces all other minions to be un-summoned (to prevent too many minions being active at once). The tank necro then uses their abilities to heal, empower, and boost the defence of their tank minion, with a lot of control over where it goes and how it behaves. An interesting ulti here could be a "possession" where the player takes direct control of the tank minion so the camera follows it, giving you a full range of new skills unique to the tank minion while your host body is given a damage shield.
__________________________________________________________

But apart from all that, I think something needs to change with how we use corpses. Right now we summon a minion from a portal, and actually generate a corpse from them. This just feels... wrong. We should be raising the dead, not summoning them from another dimension. It should be the other way around: our non-minion abilities or passives should in some way generate corpses, and then we consume those corpses to raise a minion. Currently the only spell that works this way is the healing line ultimate where you raise a bunch of Blastbone skeletons at once from corpses. That is the ONLY ability in the whole class that makes me feel like a proper necromancer because its the only ability where I'm properly raising the dead.

Yes, this means the class will have a higher wind-up than others to reach its peak damage-dealing potential. But this can be alleviated in other ways by making corpse-generation possible through non-minion abilities or passives. Or it could just be an accepted part of the class (not all classes need to behave the same, after all), with the Necromancer class having a higher wind-up time but more consistent damage in the long-run.

I agree with this entirely.
Great write-up!

Turtle_Bot · 1:05AM

Anumaril wrote: »

For healing I think it should be much the same: instead of the necromancer doing the direct healing, it's the minions. The Spirit Healer already does this surprisingly well, so we've got a workable template that can be expanded. Again, the necromancer can then focus on amplifying this healing, directing the minion who specifically to focus on (or what area), or even allowing the necromancer to force the minion to use certain special abilities like burst heals, etc.

This (bolded part) sounds almost exactly like how Sorc Matriarch currently works, when factoring in the class script (pet version) being active. e.g. with banner (class script makes it so the pets heal you or an ally whenever they deal damage).

Basically the Matriarch has the base summon ability that summons it, then it deals passive damage while it's alive (that when the class script is active also provides passive healing over time), also, while it's alive, it's ability is changed into a separate activatable burst heal for itself and 2 nearby allies.

Definitely an ability design that fits into a dedicated Summoner class, a class type that Necro inherently thematically gravitates towards much more than Sorcerer.

Outside of the design theme (art) of the summon itself, the mechanics of the Matriarch (and to an extent the familiar and clannfear summons too) seem designed for a full fledged Summoner class, just forced into what is supposed to be (also originally was) the mage class instead.

nb_rich · 12:24PM

Gabriel_H wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

I feel like the base classes need to have there skills and passives re-arranged to match new/dlc classes idea of having dps, tank and healing focused skill lines. At this current moment, most of us use the same exact skill lines for every role because only a few skill lines have both skills and passives that support a specific role.

This wouldn't work. It's not just the lines that are mixed, it's the skills too. Example: Cleansing Ritual - which line would this be in? Healing or DD - beacause it can be used in both depending on the morph. Or Rune Focus - is useful for all 3 roles. LIght Weaver passive - great for healing and tanking. The list goes on.

A simple re-arrange would break the class. It would need a complete re-work from top to bottom, which could still end up breaking the class.

My bad for the late reply.

Yeah I figured this option would be more difficult to balance, but this is why I also suggested a skill tree. This way we can just pick any combination of skills and passives. It would be easier to go this route then to move around or change skills/passives because no matter what skill lines will be more overpowered then others and everyone will continue to play the same. This would also make it easier to create future skills/passives. This would also motivate us to try other sets since we can combine skills and passives to work around those sets.

For the few players that like to play a pure classes should be rewarded with a class passive that you only get if all your skills/passives are from the same class. These passives should be really strong considering if someone goes a pure class they will have a bunch of passives that mean nothing to their role. Class sets should only be used by pure classes also and made way more stronger then the average set (eg. Provide strong no name buffs or add extra stat lines to the sets. Currently class sets make no sense especially the fact you can have multiple different classes with the same exact skills and passives yet identified as a specific class.

Honestly I think a skill tree would fix all problems cause it is impossible to balance the skills and passives when we are locked behind using at least 1 skill line from our starting class