I'm not really sure which 4 I'd slot, but it looks like I'd dump all of my current 4, and choose between 6 to 8. Hopeful would be: cheap to experiment and it's just a fast swap.

Wereswan wrote: »

This just gets back to "if it's so trivial, why are people so adamant that this is the one feature of the game that absolutely cannot change?" Compared to the plague of subclassers o'er the land, would anyone even notice if every single DPS player is rocking Feline Ambush? Probably not—especially since most passives don't have any in-game animations.

I would notice because the small differences in the races and how the varying societies navigate those differences in good and evil ways is part of what gives Elder Scrolls games narrative depth.

lostineternity wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

Why not, everyone has every ability and that's going well...pick your passives may as well be next. I'm voting yes on Pick your ulti too. And Create your ulti. Maybe the next class can be, Dwemer build your class. 15 default abilities plus morphs and ultis and the unique ability to use any/all other abilities. Just slot what you want.

is this a joke? we can't have normal animation for existing skills and classes because of hardware and engine limitations, what are you even talking about?

Racials and the racial passives. Wrong thread?

Khajiit schools? Surely you jest.

Wereswan wrote: »

How is a Reachman different from a Nord? To the best of my knowledge, no TES game has ever assigned them a set of racial passives. The answer is all in characterization.

Well, they are descended from different races, and in the case of Reachmen they have cross-species ancestory.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Reachmen

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I like to play a certain "race" for its role playing aspect but would as well do some advanced content where "racial" passives can become important.

The content where this becomes important is very end game. If you are serious about trial trifectas, you can take the time to create an optimised character for the job. You can have up to 20 character slots.

I have some rp characters and some meta characters. It is possible to have both.

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Now I know that it is a tradition in fantasy literature and role playing games based on fantasy world to attribute different talents and traits to the various "races". Now considering that much of the fantasy genre is based on Tolkien who wrote his works in an epoch when people actually believed in different human "races" and attributed specific traits to these "races" we can well assume that this imagination of "race" = a certain set of traits has its root exactly in that epoch with this specific way to see human "races". Today the general assumption as moved on and so I think should the depiction of "races" in rpg.

I would like to see disconnect between real life and a fantasy world. This is my escapism. Please do not bring real life politics into a fantasy game.

In fantasy "race" encompasses not only the perceived "races", but species and subspecies as well. Elves (mer) are different subspecies and therefore it can be easily argued that humans are too - a magical Breton is not the same as a rugged Nord. No matter what the zeitgeist used to be when Tolkien wrote The Simarillion, Hobbit and LotR, the term "race" in fantasy is not equivalent to whatever "race" has been or is perceived as in real life. If the word is annoying, swap it to... subspecies or something. (Although "subspecies" sounds too scientific in my opinion. I would prefer a fantasy word, like "race".)

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

So I request following:
Disconnect race and "racial" passives. So when chosing a "race" you don't chose a set of "racial passives" automatically.

This would require re-writing lore. A massive Orc will not be as light-footed as a tiny Wood Elf.

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

During character creation require the player to select a "school" (or "culture" if you like) that represents the "racial" passives as we know them today.

Would be kinda cool to have that as an extra thing. That you could select "upbringing" or "background". Like, a student of College of Winterhold for magic users, Bards College for supports. But that would only make it that for a certain role you must have certain background.

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Actually I like to select a "culture" so I could in my role play represent an Argonian who grew up in a khajiit environment and got consequently schooled in khajiit ways to do things etc.

A Wood Elf will never be as tall as a High Elf. A Nord will never have the claws of a Khajiit. And a Khajiit will never be able to swim as fast as an Argonian. A Breton, being a half-elf, will always perform magic better than a Redguard.

Hmm... Say the devs assign one, I get to pick 4. I'm probably not taking number 1, and even though I like one part of 25, I'd rather see that one split and maybe paired with 5. Maybe one of my characters is really into the economy...He or she might be a high elf, or a khajiit, maybe one of each. Numbers 1, 20, 24, 21, 37 might be of interest me. Design-wise, I'd want the devs to leave everything as it is, just let us move around the current passives. Quest to do it...who knows, maybe the Dwemer come back.

ESO Racial Passives
1. Opportunist – Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.
2. Gift of Magnus: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
3. Spell Attunement: Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 130 Magicka Recovery.
4. Magicka Mastery: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.

5. Wayfarer – Increases the duration of eaten food by 15 minutes.
6. Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%. Reduces the effectiveness of Snares applied to you by 15%.
7. Conditioning: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
8. Adrenaline Rush: When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 1005 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

9. Craftsman – Increases your crafting Inspiration gained by 10%.
10. Brawny: Increases your Max Stamina by 1000.
11. Unflinching Rage: Increases your Max Health by 1000. When you deal damage, you heal for 2125 Health. This can occur once every 4 seconds.
12. Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%

13. Highborn – Increases your experience gained by 1%. Increases experience gain with the Destruction Staff Skill line by 15%.
14. Spell Recharge: When you activate an ability, you restore 625 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is lowest. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. When you are using an ability with a channel or cast time, you take 5% less damage.
15. Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
16. Elemental Talent: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

17. Acrobat – Decreases your fall damage taken by 10%. Increases experience gain with the Bow Skill line by 15%.
18. Y’ffre’s Endurance: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
19. Resist Affliction: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310.
20. Hunter’s Eye: Increases your stealth detection radius by 3 meters. Increases your movement speed by 5% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 950.

21. Cutpurse – Increases your chance to so successfully pickpocket by 5%. Increases the experience gain with the Medium Armor Skill line by 15%.
22. Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 85.
23. Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 915.
24. Feline Ambush: Increases your Critical Damage and Critical Healing by 12%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m.

25. Reveler – Increases experience gain with the Two-Handed Skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes.
26. Stalwart: Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
27. Resist Frost: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and Frost Resistance by 4620.
28. Rugged: Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2600.

29. Ashlander – Increases the experience gain with the Dual Wield Skill line by 15%. Reduces your damage taken by environmental lava by 50%.
30. Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1910.
31. Resist Flame: Increases your Flame Resistance by 4620.
32. Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

33. Amphibian – Increases your experience gain with Restoration Staff skill line by 15%. Increases swimming speed by 50%.
34. Life Mender: Increases your healing done by 6%.
35. Resourceful: Increases your Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 1000. When you drink a potion, you restore 3125 Health, Magicka, and Stamina.
36. Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease and Poison Resistance by 2310.

37. Diplomat – Increases experience gain with One Handed and Shield Line by 15%. Increases your gold gained by 1%.
38. Tough: Increases your Max Health by 2000.
39. Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
40. Red Diamond: Reduces the cost of all your abilities by 6%.
(I believe these are current, feel free to Note if they aren't)

Syldras wrote: »

But there's still a difference between inborn, physical or magical traits, and skills that clearly are about factors that can't be genetically set but look like they are gained sometime later in life, by living in a certain culture and participating in their cultural practices. Like Imperials gaining more gold or being talented with a sword and shield. There are no inborn physical traits that could make a person more talented with a sword and a shield vs two swords, for example.

Yes, "background" would be something that could be explored. My idea of choosing a different school (like College of Winterhold or Bards College) could be one avenue. Could be on top of whatever racial passives you have.

There was also an idea of just selecting 4 passives from all available racial passives, but that would mean that all DDs take all weapon and spell damage passives they can get, tanks take resistance and cost reduction lines, and healers max magicka and healing passives. It would actually make the builds even less diverse than they currently are.

But what you wrote gave me another idea. What if... cultural and physical aspects are separated. Two passives that are physical traits (ie. racial traits) and two that are cultural. By default, selecting a race will also assume your cultural traits are from that race. But you could swap them. Similar to Alliance and race. Like, if you are Argonian, you still swim faster and are resistant to poison and disease because those are your physical traits, but if you grew up in Elsweyr, you also learn to pickpocket and get Lunar Blessings from that culture/religion.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Let’s not pretend that “you can pick your own passives!” would lead to anything other than “this is the one acceptable choice, and anything else is memetic trash.” You know, like exactly what happened with Subclassing.

Wereswan wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I knew this was coming the moment they eliminated classes by allowing subclassing. The argument for it? "TES games don't have rigid classes, so ESO shouldn't have classes." Regardless of the balancing issues it would cause.

Well, that same argument now cuts against eliminating racial passives. TES games have CLEAR benefits and drawbacks for playing each race. Eliminating them for the sake of convenience doesn't make any sense. Racial passives are canon and ARE in TES games. So they shouldn't be eliminated. Period.

In Morrowind and Oblivion, your attributes changed based on which gender you selected. Skyrim dropped this, as did the Oblivion remaster.

Most of those who've replied to this thread seems to be of the opinion that racial passives make very little difference in terms of gameplay. Dropping them in favor of a selectable "origins" system, akin to the Oblivion remaster, seems like a good solution.

[edited for the sake of accuracy]

And yet the OBR “origins” was the OG gender-based stats. We didn’t get stat choices irrelevant of race, and even Skyrim did have different stats for one specific race (though if the answer is “we don’t have differing stats because we literally just removed attributes from our RPG lmao” is the answer, that seems like a different problem).

But even considering a character of one species (yes, different “races” in the TES universe are all different species) being raised in another culture doesn't mean that they would be 100% the same as someone of that species in that culture. Again, let’s consider a real-life example. I can bring my teacup Pomeranian to Alaska and fit her every day with a harness and train her to pull a sled… but do we really think that any amount of training will turn Frou-Frou into a sled dog? Even if she was born and raised in the Arctic and trained every day? She literally doesn’t have the muscle or body mass for that.

But again, there is no problem to do a role that’s not the typical of your race. This - unlike the mess we got from Subclassing - is actually something where the meta is probably less than 5% more than the other, so irrelevant in most aspects.

Someone should try this: go and do a full parse with a character. Make sure you do it 5 times so we can even out the effects of RNG (crit chance). Then do a race change and nothing else, and parse 5 times again. Toss the top and bottom parses for each and compare the average DPS for both. What’s the actual numeric difference from the race?
Because I bet it’s super small and essentially irrelevant in the hands of the average player.

You don't compare humanoids to dogs I hope...

Race attributes are part of the very foundation of TES as a series and should not go anywhere.