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ausmack2014
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I think I figured out what has been done with Elder Scrolls. It has been created as a World of Warcraft clone.
It's more beautiful graphics-wise of course (although WoW has its own beauty) but in almost every other respect its the same.
I didn't play Skyrim that much because my pc at that time couldn't handle it very well, but from the little I managed to do I found it a beautiful world full of interesting places and things with a deep lore and enormous potential for character development; a challenge to play that pulled you along from place to place, town to town. But with ESO they seem to have decided not to branch out in a new direction for MMOs but rather follow the WoW pattern - zones by level, quests and quest lines, dungeons and pvp and crafting. In fact, if you gave WoW the same style of graphics as ESO, it would be difficult to tell them apart.
I have no problem with a game being created in the same style as one already in existence; the issues I have with ESO are unique to it. I won't go into them all -- you only have to read the forum threads to see what they are, and that would be repetitive. Which is what ESO has become for me. Repetitive and not terribly original. Which is a shame, as I really did have high expectations.
It's more beautiful graphics-wise of course (although WoW has its own beauty) but in almost every other respect its the same.
I didn't play Skyrim that much because my pc at that time couldn't handle it very well, but from the little I managed to do I found it a beautiful world full of interesting places and things with a deep lore and enormous potential for character development; a challenge to play that pulled you along from place to place, town to town. But with ESO they seem to have decided not to branch out in a new direction for MMOs but rather follow the WoW pattern - zones by level, quests and quest lines, dungeons and pvp and crafting. In fact, if you gave WoW the same style of graphics as ESO, it would be difficult to tell them apart.
I have no problem with a game being created in the same style as one already in existence; the issues I have with ESO are unique to it. I won't go into them all -- you only have to read the forum threads to see what they are, and that would be repetitive. Which is what ESO has become for me. Repetitive and not terribly original. Which is a shame, as I really did have high expectations.
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Loxy37✭✭✭✭short answer: No, not in the slightest. The only resemblance to WoW is that they are both MMOs
Imagine what would have happened if they had strayed too far away from the well trodden path of MMOs, they would have been slated for that also. I don't blame Devs for making cookie cutter MMOs, I blame the people that play them!11 -
Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do like the way people always use WoW as a comparison. Normally when they slag off a game !
Please consider WoW is a decade old, it is still the highest money earning MMO ever made, it still has the largest subs number of any MMO, it is played in more countries than any other MMO.
As for the OPs comment of they chose to copy the WoW format, well yes... they did... as its pretty much the blueprint of any MMO and how an MMO works.
If by any chance you have an alternative(working) method of making an MMO I suggest you get some backing and make it, because you will make millions !High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !0 -
KhajiitiLizard✭✭✭✭✭Skyrim's world and quests level with you that's something that won't work with an MMO. Skyrim was way too easy. Once I got to around level 50 or so I had to set the difficulty to master and it was still way too easy.
I love the game, but ESO is much more challenging. Skyrim was full of bugs on release, something that is common in TES games. If Zenimax can sort out the bot problem and the bugs this game would easily be up there with Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind.
The combat sure is different than the single player games (I really miss certain weapon materials not working on undead, etc) but combat is more interesting to me in ESO, much more you can do it a fight as you are not limited to a weapon or a spell in each hand like in Skyrim.4 -
Zazar✭✭follow the WoW pattern - zones by level, quests and quest lines, dungeons and pvp and crafting
@ausmack2014 So now, from the moment you put quests lines, levels, dungeons, pvp & crafting, it's a WoW-like. Damn, that's sad. Did you ever play WoW?
Moreover, what's the purpose of this topic except saying "lol it's a WoW-clone"?Edited by Zazar on May 16, 2014 7:34AM1 -
Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭follow the WoW pattern - zones by level, quests and quest lines, dungeons and pvp and crafting
@ausmack2014 So now, from the moment you put quests lines, levels, dungeons, pvp & crafting, it's a WoW-like. Damn, that's sad. Did you ever play WoW?
No problems, all we need to do is come up with an MMO format that doesn't have zones, levelling, quests/quest chains, dungeons, PvP or crafting !
Err....
Hmm....
EDIT -
I got it... fishing... DOH... WoW had that too.
Sigh....
2nd EDIT -
Still thinking.....
Edited by Phantax on May 16, 2014 7:37AMHigh Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !4 -
Gwarok✭✭✭Been wondering when someone was going to finally bring up the
statement.ausmack2014 wrote: »I think I figured out what has been done with Elder Scrolls. It has been created as a World of Warcraft clone.
#FailTrollWoWPunchlineFailed.
Edited by Gwarok on May 16, 2014 7:42AM"Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade
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(Juliet):
...it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man.
O, be some other name!
What's in a name?
That which we call a rose?
By any other name would smell as sweet.
Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
(Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)1 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Actually, going through one screen/map before you could advance to the next screen/map has been a staple in video games since their inception (and I'm thinking here of the original mainframe version of Mines of Moria that university students slacked off with in the pre-Pong 1970s.)
I had never heard of level scaling until Skyrim (though I guess the older ES games had it, too. No, I never did play that many video games.)
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sylviermoone✭✭✭✭✭What I wanted from ESO was to play an Elder Scrolls game WITH someone else.
That, in my opinion, is exactly what I have in ESO. Are there bugs? Sure, but please point me to an Elder Scrolls game that hasn't had them. The bots? Annoying, perhaps, but hardly game breaking.
I wanted an opportunity to play an Elder Scrolls game side by side with a compatriot, and I feel that, for the most part, this is being delivered. It would be nice if say....the guild quests weren't solo, but I expected the main quest line to be solo, and I'm totally OK with that.
We've been playing since Beta over here, and we're still happy slowly working towards Veteran content. Some weapons skills aren't as smooth as I would like them to be (my main is a DW NB, oy, and I'm seriously considering a respec), but I have faith that these issues will get worked out.
Content, lore, world, and story wise, ESO is right up on the top of the list for me. And it's just a big slop of icing on the cake that instead of taking turns watching someone else play a single player game (seriously, how freaking boring), we instead get to enjoy the journey side by side.
To me, the only way this game compares with WoW is the fact that it is an MMO. After that, the similarities end.Co-GM, Angry Unicorn Traders: PC/NA
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭A Skyrim player told me it didn't have level scaling, not sure who to believe now.0 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭A Skyrim player told me it didn't have level scaling, not sure who to believe now.
Maybe I got the name wrong, but yes, things scale with you - the first time you enter an area, everything of importance is set to your level. It locks after that, though, so you can go faceroll stuff in the places you were earlier. Other than that, the map doesn't care what direction you head out in.
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow, and not World of warcraft wow.ausmack2014 wrote: »I think I figured out what has been done with Elder Scrolls. It has been created as a World of Warcraft clone.
Wrong on so many levels, and I'm not a WoW fan.
Two similarities, and only two, It's an MMO and it uses Addons.
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Loxy37✭✭✭✭A Skyrim player told me it didn't have level scaling, not sure who to believe now.
Skyrim did but a few bosses were way harder unless you levelled some skills. Level scaling allows one to go where they want and do any quest in any area. Oblivion used the same formula but I'm sure morrowind didn't have scaling. To see scaling In action, kill a mob at level 1 and look at the loot, now kill the same areas mobs At level 10, they will be more dangerous mobs with way better loot. Fallout 3 and New Vegas also had a variation of level scaling.
I think theres room for both, I sure loved games where you simply couldn't go to an areas unless you wanted your Ass handing to you but its not really compatible with a open world type game unless you want to level lock areas.
MMOs probably in the future could use level scaling but not with current tech because imagine I'm in Auridon at level 12 and you are here at level 30, how would we group? They could use phasing and scale the loot and xp gains per person but how would they scale damage? It is possible and I'm sure given time , it would be acheiveable but not just yet.
Edited by Loxy37 on May 16, 2014 9:16AM0 -
Squishy✭✭✭If memory serves me right, city of Heroes had a level scaling, in a way, for world bosses/event bosses.
I can not remember exactly how it worked, but everyone could pitch in, and get rewards according to their level.
On the technical side, it's not actually hard. The basic idea is to instead of giving a fixed level value to mobs, you give them value "level". Level is then calculated for each mobs as they are visible to you, take level from player targeting+/- whatever algorithm you use to grant the stats to your mobs depending on their intended difficulty. The other even easier (in theory) is something like this:
If player.level=1, mob level =1, where each levels is following the levels already in place, but it just applied the stats for each players. For the damage to be calculated correctly, each mob is actually L50 (or max level in place), and the damages are calculated in %. So a L1 doing 10% damage to his L1 mob, applies a 10%dmg of the L50 mob (or less for balancing/difficulty issues).
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Syntse✭✭✭✭✭A Skyrim player told me it didn't have level scaling, not sure who to believe now.
Skyrim did but a few bosses were way harder unless you levelled some skills. Level scaling allows one to go where they want and do any quest in any area. Oblivion used the same formula but I'm sure morrowind didn't have scaling. To see scaling In action, kill a mob at level 1 and look at the loot, now kill the same areas mobs At level 10, they will be more dangerous mobs with way better loot. Fallout 3 and New Vegas also had level scaling.
Skyrim might have some level scaling but it was quite toned down. Or some kind of combination of fixed and scaled. At low levels trolls and mammoths tore you apart. Somewhere after lvl 30 you tore everything apart no matter what.
Oblivion had very high scaling on level. If you power leveled with non combat skills you soon found yourself getting your ass kicked by the most simple mobs.
Morrowind was leveled if I remember correctly. However you still had the freedom of exploration.
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Loxy37✭✭✭✭If memory serves me right, city of Heroes had a level scaling, in a way, for world bosses/event bosses.
I can not remember exactly how it worked, but everyone could pitch in, and get rewards according to their level.
On the technical side, it's not actually hard. The basic idea is to instead of giving a fixed level value to mobs, you give them value "level". Level is then calculated for each mobs as they are visible to you, take level from player targeting+/- whatever algorithm you use to grant the stats to your mobs depending on their intended difficulty. The other even easier (in theory) is something like this:
If player.level=1, mob level =1, where each levels is following the levels already in place, but it just applied the stats for each players. For the damage to be calculated correctly, each mob is actually L50 (or max level in place), and the damages are calculated in %. So a L1 doing 10% damage to his L1 mob, applies a 10%dmg of the L50 mob (or less for balancing/difficulty issues).
Yeah but there could be other factors. I have worked it all out in my head and I believe it would work rather well, in my head but I'm thinking more along the lines of limitations of the server and end users computers. If ESO had been designed with the ideas that everyone had i7s/GF titans with fibre optic BB then probably would be doable. I'm sure Zenimax considered it but there must have been reasons for going the tried and tested route of level locking.0 -
Kykosis12✭✭Another who is saying this is wow. Seriously go on wow then come back to eso... you will soon see the difference. yes there are aspects of the game, just like every other mmos, like they all have quests! lmao!1 -
BaKaNoOB✭✭✭GW 2 Scaling is the best i think, but boss scaling is not so good for me there, when you enter high level area you die, when you enter low level area you are scaled to that level and damage health and so reduced, you get loot for your level tough...
you get EXP correspondingly
Edited by BaKaNoOB on May 16, 2014 9:47AM0 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭Dude, ESO ist not like WoW, not in the slightest.
Heck, they aren`t even the same genre. WoW is a mmorpg while ESO is an arpg.
There is literally no resemblence here.
Actually ESO would do good by ripping a few things off WoW because the truth is, WoW is pretty perfect in most aspects.3 -
aufischb16_ESO✭✭✭I really don't think this is anything like WoW, but it isn't TES either. I really miss the depth and immersion that was present in Morrowind/Oblivion and Skyrim.
And also the fact that I actually felt being a part of these worlds. In ESO I feel no connection to the world and its inhabitant at all. We are just rushed from one area to the other, and there is hardly any incentive to remain a bit longer (unless of course they start to implement some RP features).2 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do like the way people always use WoW as a comparison. Normally when they slag off a game !
Please consider WoW is a decade old, it is still the highest money earning MMO ever made, it still has the largest subs number of any MMO, it is played in more countries than any other MMO.
As for the OPs comment of they chose to copy the WoW format, well yes... they did... as its pretty much the blueprint of any MMO and how an MMO works.
If by any chance you have an alternative(working) method of making an MMO I suggest you get some backing and make it, because you will make millions !
You are wrong with a few things there.
WoW is the blueprint for one type of MMO, not the blueprint for all. Ultima, DAOC, SWG (RIP) are totally different and so is ESO.
WoW is based on a so called "Endgame" philosophy, that philosophy says that you must do a raid with about 12 bosses every week, so you can get items to present that achievement and be ready for the new raid coming 5 months later. That's all wow and its clones is about, yes it has its fans but its not an MMO you can and want to play for 10 years straight as it just burns you out.
What this type of MMO lacks is the actual Char progression after max level, as you will be as strong as someone who is only max level for 1 second and this is a bit of an awkward situation.
DAOC, is a full on RvR based gamed with a strong connection of PvP and PvE. After level 10, you can join RvR based battles in so called battle zones, comparable to Cyrodil. There you have a keep and several quest objectives. These quest objectives such as kill 5 Albions require the combat of the other factions, but you can also go off and kill 5 swamp witches and stuff.
Besides that you have a huge world to conquer where you can steal artifact´s and gain ranks.
PvP is the main selling point for that game, but the strong connection of actuall questing while doing pvp was huge back then. While you never had to do pve questing like at WoW, you still did pve but it didn't feel like pve.
Ultima, the for me best MMO ever. You don't have levels, raids, or BG´s or PvP zones. Instead the game is free for all, so you can rob your friend just like you could rob a stranger. Besides that you could do everything in that game, from taming animals to chopping wood and building your own castle and opening various shops.
Ultima was still based on type to play, so if you wanted to get into your bank you typed "Bank", if you wanted to lock the door of your house you typed "secure this...."
SWG worked similar to Ultima in regards of crafting and housing, whole player cities could be build.
Ultima and DAOC are still alive and not F2P, SWG had to close its servers sadly and WoW is also still not F2P, but has its focus shifted from EU & NA to Asia.
ESO right now is a bit of a mix between DAOC and Ultima, I hardly see any WoW here to be honest except the Addon API which should be even more limited in my opinion.
There have been MMO´s before WoW and there will be MMO`s after.4 -
ausmack2014✭✭✭Another who is saying this is wow. Seriously go on wow then come back to eso... you will soon see the difference. yes there are aspects of the game, just like every other mmos, like they all have quests! lmao!
I've never actually stopped playing WoW, it was my introduction to online gaming back in 2009 and I love it. It just seems to me that ESO does pretty well everything that WoW does, only not quite as well. As I said, ESO is beautiful to look at, but so is a nice painting. Im just quite surprised that with all the gaming that has been created over the years, the designers of this one didn't foresee the problems that have arisen. I don't expect a flawless game when its just released (WoW usually has its own problems when it releases an expansion) but having things as basic as broken quests -- I don't pay a subscription to play what appears to be an expanded beta. Not to mention the massive bot problem. Heh, I mentioned it. Ah well...1 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭ausmack2014 wrote: »I think I figured out what has been done with Elder Scrolls. It has been created as a World of Warcraft clone.
It's more beautiful graphics-wise of course (although WoW has its own beauty) but in almost every other respect its the same.
I didn't play Skyrim that much because my pc at that time couldn't handle it very well, but from the little I managed to do I found it a beautiful world full of interesting places and things with a deep lore and enormous potential for character development; a challenge to play that pulled you along from place to place, town to town. But with ESO they seem to have decided not to branch out in a new direction for MMOs but rather follow the WoW pattern - zones by level, quests and quest lines, dungeons and pvp and crafting. In fact, if you gave WoW the same style of graphics as ESO, it would be difficult to tell them apart.
I have no problem with a game being created in the same style as one already in existence; the issues I have with ESO are unique to it. I won't go into them all -- you only have to read the forum threads to see what they are, and that would be repetitive. Which is what ESO has become for me. Repetitive and not terribly original. Which is a shame, as I really did have high expectations.
It is interesting that you(well not just you really. I hear TONS of ppl say this) use Skyrim as an example of a TES game. Many people said that it wasn't a real TES game when it was released. The lack of set classes from previous TES game, the consolidation of all the numerous stats into the big 3(magic, stealth, and HP), etc.; very similar argument.
Honestly, people in general need to accept that definitions change with time. Whether it be in real life or in something like the game industry.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A Skyrim player told me it didn't have level scaling, not sure who to believe now.
Skyrim did but a few bosses were way harder unless you levelled some skills. Level scaling allows one to go where they want and do any quest in any area. Oblivion used the same formula but I'm sure morrowind didn't have scaling. To see scaling In action, kill a mob at level 1 and look at the loot, now kill the same areas mobs At level 10, they will be more dangerous mobs with way better loot. Fallout 3 and New Vegas also had level scaling.
Skyrim might have some level scaling but it was quite toned down. Or some kind of combination of fixed and scaled. At low levels trolls and mammoths tore you apart. Somewhere after lvl 30 you tore everything apart no matter what.
Oblivion had very high scaling on level. If you power leveled with non combat skills you soon found yourself getting your ass kicked by the most simple mobs.
Morrowind was leveled if I remember correctly. However you still had the freedom of exploration.
Oblivion's level scaling would rip you a new one even if you only leveled combat skills. It created a weird situation where you were better off picking a class that ran opposite of how you wanted to play, and then only leveled up when you needed to, or wanted more challenge.
Morrowind had some scaling. There were leveled lists that would pump out stuff based on your current level. But, a lot of it was hand placed. Something, Oblivion lacked. Even Skyrim doesn't have much of it.
Used to be, unleveled games were the norm, the old Fallout and Infinity engine games come to mind. Now, there's more of a premium on letting players poke around wherever they want, whenever they want. So some scaling is the norm.0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭The OP can not be serious. Or just want attention or something.
@Audigy
You forgot Everquest my friend!
If the OP is serious, ...nah he cant be, no one is that oblivious.Edited by Cogo on May 16, 2014 4:59PMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
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p.hurst1b16_ESO✭✭✭ausmack2014 wrote: »I think I figured out what has been done with Elder Scrolls. It has been created as a World of Warcraft clone.
I read this far. If you want to grab attention this is not the way.
If you cannot see how this is an evolution from the 3rd gen MMO's then you are not very well informed at all.
ESO needs criticism, there are several real problems but being a wow-a-like is not one of them,<Enigmatic Name> Is poaching new guild members again ! Apply on our webby with your CV and proof of identity and we can arrange an interview with a panel of our officers.0 -
Scowler✭✭If you want an experience similar to the Elder Scrolls we know and love, do some casual adventuring and questing in Cyrodil. I couldn't care less about PvP elements but PvE (with a partner) is entertaining and relaxing: unstructured questing, wide lonely world, some hard fights and harder dungeons. Mind the slaughterfish.
I wish more of the zones were like Cyrodil.1
