Subclassing vs Pure class

sweatapodimas · October 18

Perhaps each skill line in the class has a pure class bonus, damage/tank/heal etc etc etc

Spearblade · October 23

I think the answer for "class identity" lies outside of skill lines. I'd much prefer to see more class sets and additional types of class mastery scripts for Scribing (like a Siphoning or Assassination mastery script, instead of just "Class"). Scribing can, and should, go SO MUCH FURTHER.

And also, "Arena" class weapons. Think of some of your favorite class skills- now imagine being able to push them BEYOND, or to pre-nerf(s) levels. Not for free- it's two item slots after all, but you could pump up your Sorcerer's Hardened Ward. Shadow Cloak for days. Jesus beam. Many, many options. One of my favorite things about arena weapons is their ability to take a skill that may be "meh," and turn it into an outlier. ZOS doesn't even need to look too far- all they have to do is look at their nerfs from past patches, and add the effect to weapons.

Iriidius · October 25

Spearblade wrote: »

I think the answer for "class identity" lies outside of skill lines. I'd much prefer to see more class sets and additional types of class mastery scripts for Scribing (like a Siphoning or Assassination mastery script, instead of just "Class"). Scribing can, and should, go SO MUCH FURTHER.

And also, "Arena" class weapons. Think of some of your favorite class skills- now imagine being able to push them BEYOND, or to pre-nerf(s) levels. Not for free- it's two item slots after all, but you could pump up your Sorcerer's Hardened Ward. Shadow Cloak for days. Jesus beam. Many, many options. One of my favorite things about arena weapons is their ability to take a skill that may be "meh," and turn it into an outlier. ZOS doesn't even need to look too far- all they have to do is look at their nerfs from past patches, and add the effect to weapons.

Skillines is all classes were (chosen for)since release. ZOS only released class sets, styles and mastery script in the last 2 years when players had already chosen and played their class for years. Class sets are dependent on class Skilllines.
Now the skilllines players chose their class for can be subclassed and used by everyone while the class set/script/styles added in the last 2 years never chosen by most players as they didnt exist when most players chose their class are the only reason your class in a subclass build with skilllines from 3 different classes matters.

Your suggestion is to keep all what classes were until update 40 and most what classes were until update 46 available to every class and create completely new class identity by creating new tools restricted to class. At this point it is better to have no class identity than get dictated restrictions based on a choice for class made when class was something different. Classless Skyrim was fine and classless ESO could have been too if done from start but subclassing is worst from both worlds and restricting new tools to class also is as it doesn’t restore unique feeling of class and forcing players to choose class is no end in itself.

Getting prenerf versions of class skills back is cool and often worth 2 item slots but can’t replace class identity lost by subclassing.

keto3000 · October 26

Iriidius wrote: »

Spearblade wrote: »

I think the answer for "class identity" lies outside of skill lines. I'd much prefer to see more class sets and additional types of class mastery scripts for Scribing (like a Siphoning or Assassination mastery script, instead of just "Class"). Scribing can, and should, go SO MUCH FURTHER.

And also, "Arena" class weapons. Think of some of your favorite class skills- now imagine being able to push them BEYOND, or to pre-nerf(s) levels. Not for free- it's two item slots after all, but you could pump up your Sorcerer's Hardened Ward. Shadow Cloak for days. Jesus beam. Many, many options. One of my favorite things about arena weapons is their ability to take a skill that may be "meh," and turn it into an outlier. ZOS doesn't even need to look too far- all they have to do is look at their nerfs from past patches, and add the effect to weapons.

Skillines is all classes were (chosen for)since release. ZOS only released class sets, styles and mastery script in the last 2 years when players had already chosen and played their class for years. Class sets are dependent on class Skilllines.
Now the skilllines players chose their class for can be subclassed and used by everyone while the class set/script/styles added in the last 2 years never chosen by most players as they didnt exist when most players chose their class are the only reason your class in a subclass build with skilllines from 3 different classes matters.

Your suggestion is to keep all what classes were until update 40 and most what classes were until update 46 available to every class and create completely new class identity by creating new tools restricted to class. At this point it is better to have no class identity than get dictated restrictions based on a choice for class made when class was something different. Classless Skyrim was fine and classless ESO could have been too if done from start but subclassing is worst from both worlds and restricting new tools to class also is as it doesn’t restore unique feeling of class and forcing players to choose class is no end in itself.

Getting prenerf versions of class skills back is cool and often worth 2 item slots but can’t replace class identity lost by subclassing.

I agree with this. I've played since beta 2014 & this back and forth philosophical differences between class-based and non class-based approach should be decisively implemented one way or the other.

I personally prefer the strogn class identity approach,but, if ZOS chose to eliminate class templated ID, that would be fine IF they strengthened the scribing skills and other customization.

This half in/ half out approach re classes has really gimped the game in so many ways.