Has anyone on the ESO team ever heard of scale?

Getsugatenso · October 15

Has anyone on the ESO team ever heard of scaling? With each player, the boss's HP, power, and defense increase, of course, to a certain extent. And it's time to improve this monster's animations, making them more consistent. You could have the boss chew through some players and even crush them a bit.

tomofhyrule · October 15

As I said in the last thread you made on this topic: The Siege Camps do have scaling. They will sometimes spawn a second final boss.

The problem is that scaling is designed to go from groups of around 4-6 to 12-18. They aren’t going to scale all the way to 60+ players since they’ll never get those populations again after people stop grinding them. The dev team is not infinite, and they can’t release a patch to adjust every boss every week (and yes, adjusting mechanics or damage output does require a client patch)

Give it a week or two for everyone to get bored, and people will be begging for help in zone.

Gabriel_H · October 15

There is scaling. The problem is the cap on it. The code has to be set so that you have a minimum and a maximum.

To achieve that on a staright line basis you get: y = mx + c (y = boss health; m is player numbers, x is scale value, c is base amount)

1 player has the power of 1 player, but 2 players buff each other and so they are the equivelent of 2.5 players, a 12 player group becomes like having 24 individual players. So the scaling can't be a simple straight line.

Now add some reality to that. 12 players in an optimized group are more powerful than 12 players non-grouped. Even though the latter are getting buffs, the optimized group is doing it better. The former may be the equivelent of 36 players, and the latter may be 18 players - and there is no way for the game to determine that.

As such, ZOS scale to the lowest common denominator. The newbie solo player. So 12 players on a boss = 12 players for scaling. It means that an optimized group are counted as 12, even though they may be the equivelent of 36.

Now design a scaling formula where you don't know the group make-up? You can't. So you have to revert to the straight line scaling.

Edit: Typos

PS. That's not even taking into account companions.

zaria · October 15

Gabriel_H wrote: »

There is scaling. The problem is the cap on it. The code has to be set so that you have a minimum and a maximum.

To achieve that on a staright line basis you get: y = mx + c (y = boss health; m is player numbers, x is scale value, c is base amount)

1 player has the power of 1 player, but 2 players buff each other and so they are the equivelent of 2.5 players, a 12 player group becomes like having 24 individual players. So the scaling can't be a simple straight line.

Now add some reality to that. 12 players in an optimized group are more powerful than 12 players non-grouped. Even though the latter are getting buffs, the optimized group is doing it better. The former may be the equivelent of 36 players, and the latter may be 18 players - and there is no way for the game to determine that.

As such, ZOS scale to the lowest common denominator. The newbie solo player. So 12 players on a boss = 12 players for scaling. It means that an optimized group are counted as 12, even though they may be the equivelent of 36.

Now design a scaling formula where you don't know the group make-up? You can't. So you have to revert to the straight line scaling.

Edit: Typos

PS. That's not even taking into account companions.

Yes even without buffs, you has the 2 players have agro 1/2 of the time so they each take half damage from direct attacks while dealing double so I say 2 players will do 3-4 times as well.
Add that boss reset if you solo it and dies, with more players you can rez and fight again.
Then 2 on a boss and other die it's extremely smart to play very defensively is if you die now, boss resets, if the other player is up and you die it not much of an issue. Now this factor goes down as players goes up
The boss reset issue goes away with more players. Then you have the group buffs and healing,
And not talking organized groups, some who know the mechanics and has communication, has an dedicated tank and healer,
if so add 2-3 times

Orbital78 · October 15

tomofhyrule wrote: »

As I said in the last thread you made on this topic: The Siege Camps do have scaling. They will sometimes spawn a second final boss.

The problem is that scaling is designed to go from groups of around 4-6 to 12-18. They aren’t going to scale all the way to 60+ players since they’ll never get those populations again after people stop grinding them. The dev team is not infinite, and they can’t release a patch to adjust every boss every week (and yes, adjusting mechanics or damage output does require a client patch)

Give it a week or two for everyone to get bored, and people will be begging for help in zone.

The only camp I've seen a second boss is the one near the wayshrine, it spawns one every time. Unless the patch changed something, which I sure as heck hope so (despawning attacks was super annoying).

More of the sweeper bosses like IC would be fun, I see many players getting wrecked (myself included) when they jump you from behind running clear across the camp to attack one specific person.

I've done IC sewer farms, so I kind of know their attack sets but they are still a decent challenge, I just hope they don't knock you through the floor like IC.

Gabriel_H · October 15

The solution to the problem for this Event is to have a much lower player cap per instance. But, then everyone is going to be claiming the zone is dead and the event a failure. ZOS can't win.

I have issues with how ZOS approach things, and the recent changes they have made, but an objective view has to be taken or it's just whining.