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Is it time for ZOS to give us an official statement of intentions regarding future vengeance plans?
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Lucasl402✭✭✭YesFour_Fingers wrote: »On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?
What if PvEers did try to PvP, got lagged to death, got ballgroup-steamrolled over and over, got bombed on every ram, flag, or door-repairing, got farmed countless times by players abusing broken sets, and simply figured they had better things to do if there is nothing really fun about the current Cyrodiil?
Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?
I’m going to answer your questions, respectfully.
1. What if they did try to PvP and weren’t successful?
They’d be PvPing….. maybe storing years of resentment and finally voicing it on the forums since they see a sliver of opportunity to get revenge on those ornery PvPers by gutting the only part of the game they have. Muhahahah
(Reality is, player vs player is survival of the fittest. If Vengeance were to replace normal Cyro, and actual PvPers had to play it, you would get killed in the exact same ways you do now, maybe worse cause numbers matter more in that terrible mode)
2. Are PvErs wrong to ask for a PvP campaign that’s easy?
Yea, pretty much. If that’s what we’re doing, let PvPers get a group finder for easy trials/arenas that give the same rewards as hard mode. Somewhere we can just stand in the back (similar to a wall of a keep) and LA with our bows, I’d really like to get that perfected maul.
You aren't even answering my questions; you answer to some twisted interpretation, respectfully.
Questions are clearly indicated with the question mark:
1. What if PvEers figured they had better things to do than deal with op ballgroups, broken builds, lag, etc?
For some reason, you make it about being unsuccessful and resentful, while it is simply about being tired of the unbalanced mess that is the current PvP.
2. Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?
“A mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy” means a balanced environment and improved performance. At least Vengeance has improved performance, and imbalance is atm less game-breaking than on live.StihlReign wrote: »ZOS keeps using a vocabulary like “experimenting”, etc. It is clear that they are testing different ideas and systems, and none of those has any guarantee of becoming permanent. Vengeance might disappear entirely once all data is collected. I’m not sure why PvPers are panicking so badly, I guess deep inside they know that current PvP is just too broken on many levels.
PvPer's see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see in a FUTURE PvP environment so they've asked for clarity. Panic seems like a stretch but here you are.
PvEers see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see and don't care about. They would rather see a new chapter with more quests.
On what grounds do PvPers reserve the exclusive right to decide what the FUTURE PvP will look like? What's wrong with having regular Cyrodiil and a second, Vengeance-like campaign, both enabled at the same time?StihlReign wrote: »We gave PvErs a simple solution via CP and an easy to purchase 2 pc set to stop them from getting bombed and ganked during events. It was nerfed in record time, about 2 weeks. The info is in the patch notes.
LOL. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS? PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers, and now are also trying hard to take away any possibility of an additional PvP mode from those who would welcome such an alternative.StihlReign wrote: »Reading comprehension and objectivity are severely lacking in any Vengeance discussion. Also, the discrimination against PvE mains' voices and opinions, even when they pvp regularly (or used to), is disappointing. It gives an image of a PvP community that is a self-proclaimed elite but one devoid of vision, open-mindedness, and the ability to embrace change.
Also devoid of reading skills.
I'm not a PvP main since beta; claiming on this forum that you're a PvPer is pointless, and it just derails any discussion. Anyway, as I said, I don't care about what happens to the current version of PvP, and yes, I'm not going to play it as it is right now; it's an awful experience.
But I'm all in for testing a potential alternative PvP version. If Vengeance's results help fix the current PvP, then I'm happy for those who enjoy it. If Vengeance becomes a mode in its own right, much enhanced than what we saw so far, then I'm going to play it on a regular basis. If Vengeance gets deleted once testing is over, then I get at least 1 week of PvP every 3 months, while it lasts, that is fun when populations are balanced.
PvE has received an incredible amount of resources from the devs. PvP has one main zone and the devs couldn't be bothered to make even simple changes suggested by the players. Things are left half done, unexplained, ignored, mocked or given some of the worst excuses - while doing nothing, or something no one asked for. Why is clarity an unreasonable request?
This is patently false. Back in 2021, ZOS tested some players' ideas, like disabling crosshealing outside of groups or disabling proc sets, so yeah, devs bother from time to time. They also introduce things no one asked for, but since it's their game, they can do whatever they deem best, whether we agree or not.
Nobody is asking for a blind trust in ZOS, but rather that PvPers chill so they can access clarity of thinking and their reading skills again, and stop jumping to misguided conclusions like "Vengeance will replace all of PvP" or "PvEers hate us and want PvP deleted from the game."
Yet for most of the history of ESO there have been people on this forum posting regularly that the game would be better if PvP was removed. Right below this thread there is even a poll asking if the 3 banners war should end with the next patch.
I guess you just missed those hundreds of threads over the years.
I guess you just missed those hundreds of votes that I cast over the years in polls asking for a PvE version of Cyrodill.
Thank you for proving my point.2 -
aetherix8✭✭✭YesFour_Fingers wrote: »On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?
What if PvEers did try to PvP, got lagged to death, got ballgroup-steamrolled over and over, got bombed on every ram, flag, or door-repairing, got farmed countless times by players abusing broken sets, and simply figured they had better things to do if there is nothing really fun about the current Cyrodiil?
Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?
I’m going to answer your questions, respectfully.
1. What if they did try to PvP and weren’t successful?
They’d be PvPing….. maybe storing years of resentment and finally voicing it on the forums since they see a sliver of opportunity to get revenge on those ornery PvPers by gutting the only part of the game they have. Muhahahah
(Reality is, player vs player is survival of the fittest. If Vengeance were to replace normal Cyro, and actual PvPers had to play it, you would get killed in the exact same ways you do now, maybe worse cause numbers matter more in that terrible mode)
2. Are PvErs wrong to ask for a PvP campaign that’s easy?
Yea, pretty much. If that’s what we’re doing, let PvPers get a group finder for easy trials/arenas that give the same rewards as hard mode. Somewhere we can just stand in the back (similar to a wall of a keep) and LA with our bows, I’d really like to get that perfected maul.
You aren't even answering my questions; you answer to some twisted interpretation, respectfully.
Questions are clearly indicated with the question mark:
1. What if PvEers figured they had better things to do than deal with op ballgroups, broken builds, lag, etc?
For some reason, you make it about being unsuccessful and resentful, while it is simply about being tired of the unbalanced mess that is the current PvP.
2. Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?
“A mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy” means a balanced environment and improved performance. At least Vengeance has improved performance, and imbalance is atm less game-breaking than on live.StihlReign wrote: »ZOS keeps using a vocabulary like “experimenting”, etc. It is clear that they are testing different ideas and systems, and none of those has any guarantee of becoming permanent. Vengeance might disappear entirely once all data is collected. I’m not sure why PvPers are panicking so badly, I guess deep inside they know that current PvP is just too broken on many levels.
PvPer's see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see in a FUTURE PvP environment so they've asked for clarity. Panic seems like a stretch but here you are.
PvEers see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see and don't care about. They would rather see a new chapter with more quests.
On what grounds do PvPers reserve the exclusive right to decide what the FUTURE PvP will look like? What's wrong with having regular Cyrodiil and a second, Vengeance-like campaign, both enabled at the same time?StihlReign wrote: »We gave PvErs a simple solution via CP and an easy to purchase 2 pc set to stop them from getting bombed and ganked during events. It was nerfed in record time, about 2 weeks. The info is in the patch notes.
LOL. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS? PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers, and now are also trying hard to take away any possibility of an additional PvP mode from those who would welcome such an alternative.StihlReign wrote: »Reading comprehension and objectivity are severely lacking in any Vengeance discussion. Also, the discrimination against PvE mains' voices and opinions, even when they pvp regularly (or used to), is disappointing. It gives an image of a PvP community that is a self-proclaimed elite but one devoid of vision, open-mindedness, and the ability to embrace change.
Also devoid of reading skills.
I'm not a PvP main since beta; claiming on this forum that you're a PvPer is pointless, and it just derails any discussion. Anyway, as I said, I don't care about what happens to the current version of PvP, and yes, I'm not going to play it as it is right now; it's an awful experience.
But I'm all in for testing a potential alternative PvP version. If Vengeance's results help fix the current PvP, then I'm happy for those who enjoy it. If Vengeance becomes a mode in its own right, much enhanced than what we saw so far, then I'm going to play it on a regular basis. If Vengeance gets deleted once testing is over, then I get at least 1 week of PvP every 3 months, while it lasts, that is fun when populations are balanced.
PvE has received an incredible amount of resources from the devs. PvP has one main zone and the devs couldn't be bothered to make even simple changes suggested by the players. Things are left half done, unexplained, ignored, mocked or given some of the worst excuses - while doing nothing, or something no one asked for. Why is clarity an unreasonable request?
This is patently false. Back in 2021, ZOS tested some players' ideas, like disabling crosshealing outside of groups or disabling proc sets, so yeah, devs bother from time to time. They also introduce things no one asked for, but since it's their game, they can do whatever they deem best, whether we agree or not.
Nobody is asking for a blind trust in ZOS, but rather that PvPers chill so they can access clarity of thinking and their reading skills again, and stop jumping to misguided conclusions like "Vengeance will replace all of PvP" or "PvEers hate us and want PvP deleted from the game."
Yet for most of the history of ESO there have been people on this forum posting regularly that the game would be better if PvP was removed. Right below this thread there is even a poll asking if the 3 banners war should end with the next patch.
I guess you just missed those hundreds of threads over the years.
I guess you just missed those hundreds of votes that I cast over the years in polls asking for a PvE version of Cyrodill.
Thank you for proving my point.
It's a fact that every now and then there are people posting threads about PvE Cyrodiil, especially around WSM. How are players who vote 'no' proving your point? What even is your point? That every PvEer hates PvP and wants it deleted? In such a case, my reply pretty much undermines your point.PC EU - V4hn10 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭Yes
1. What if PvEers figured they had better things to do than deal with op ballgroups, broken builds, lag, etc?
2. Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?
3. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS?
4. PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers
5. Frankly, I couldn't care less whether PvPers keep the current version or not, as it doesn't exist for me anyways. In general, I suspect that PvEers don't really care either, they have other problems, like hats and economy. PvPers can try and dictate whatever they want to PvEers, it doesn't change that Cyro populations are shrinking.
1. Don't play
2. No. They aren't wrong. But "stand a chance" alludes to the fact that you either have no skill, or you want things handed to you in some easy mode to help you win. Learn to play.
3. Since ZOS said PvPers work for them on this forum. But that isn't what I was referencing and you know it. See the next comment.
4. Yes PvPers have. We've given tons of advice, builds and techniques to PvErs. The easiest to verify are the the tons of posts before every MYM. There's also a ton of requests from PvErs on how to survive in IC, or collect items in IC without PvPing. PvPers help you with this and show a ton of grace when they could say - Learn to Play.
5. This rings untrue; however, here we are answering questions for someone with an agenda. You can't PvP, you want an ez mode to help you, you'd prefer to PvP on some imaginary even playing field rather than develop skill. Every player in the current environment is under the same ruleset as every other player, so what's your problem? How can we help you get better?
PvPers aren't asking ZOS for new abilities or skills. They want a more performant environment and one without heal, buff, and shield stacking. They've asked repeatedly for a removal or detuning of certain skills and armor sets and named them. They've asked ZOS for the results of tests and for follow through on past promises to provide information. Now they've become paid testers for ZOS while the devs fall back to ignoring requests for updated information regarding the direction of the current tests."O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS2 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭edward_frigidhands wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?
Maybe they would enjoy a less laggy and more balanced experience rather than the current state. PVD is a more enjoyable experience right now.
Maybe my PVE builds would stop getting decimated because they cannot use battle spirit as well.
Your builds were nerfed because they were overpowered in PvE. PvP had nothing to do with it.
false0 -
Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭Yesedward_frigidhands wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?
Maybe they would enjoy a less laggy and more balanced experience rather than the current state. PVD is a more enjoyable experience right now.
Maybe my PVE builds would stop getting decimated because they cannot use battle spirit as well.
Your builds were nerfed because they were overpowered in PvE. PvP had nothing to do with it.
false
It's true tho. As much as a vocal group of PvE players want to gaslight the community that PvP are responsible for everything bad in PvE, an overwhelming majority of balance changes done in PvE throughout eso history are done because of PvE, not PvP.Ps4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -4 -
aetherix8✭✭✭YesStihlReign wrote: »
1. What if PvEers figured they had better things to do than deal with op ballgroups, broken builds, lag, etc?
2. Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?
3. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS?
4. PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers
5. Frankly, I couldn't care less whether PvPers keep the current version or not, as it doesn't exist for me anyways. In general, I suspect that PvEers don't really care either, they have other problems, like hats and economy. PvPers can try and dictate whatever they want to PvEers, it doesn't change that Cyro populations are shrinking.
1. Don't play
2. No. They aren't wrong. But "stand a chance" alludes to the fact that you either have no skill, or you want things handed to you in some easy mode to help you win. Learn to play.
3. Since ZOS said PvPers work for them on this forum. But that isn't what I was referencing and you know it. See the next comment.
4. Yes PvPers have. We've given tons of advice, builds and techniques to PvErs. The easiest to verify are the the tons of posts before every MYM. There's also a ton of requests from PvErs on how to survive in IC, or collect items in IC without PvPing. PvPers help you with this and show a ton of grace when they could say - Learn to Play.
5. This rings untrue; however, here we are answering questions for someone with an agenda. You can't PvP, you want an ez mode to help you, you'd prefer to PvP on some imaginary even playing field rather than develop skill. Every player in the current environment is under the same ruleset as every other player, so what's your problem? How can we help you get better?
1. Quite an underwhelming option. I would rather play, but cannot, since no-proc Ravenwatch disappeared. It was a much better PvP experience, and it was more new-player friendly, without op ballgroups, bombers on every step, and other issues caused by broken sets. I hope Vengeance will one day arrive at this much enhanced point, where it can permanently replace the U50 or the no-CP campaign.
2. Read the comment above. I achieved AR50 on three toons while playing on no-proc Ravenwatch, and I acquired a degree of skill in the process. I would have continued improving my skill if no-proc RW still existed. And it was never an easy mode, just free from all the issues plaguing GH.
3. Please provide a link to such an official statement from ZOS to back up your claim that PvPers work for ZOS.
4. You should have said all of that previously instead of saying
AFAIK only ZOS retains the power to give systems or item sets to any player, PvE or PvP. I agree with giving advice and knowledge sharing.StihlReign wrote: »We gave PvErs a simple solution via CP and an easy to purchase 2 pc set (...).
5. That's because you don't know me so my words obv don't work with your false assumptions about me.StihlReign wrote: »PvPers aren't asking ZOS for new abilities or skills. They want a more performant environment and one without heal, buff, and shield stacking. They've asked repeatedly for a removal or detuning of certain skills and armor sets and named them. They've asked ZOS for the results of tests and for follow through on past promises to provide information.
Is there like an official statement or something that you were chosen to speak for the entire PvP community? Speak for yourself. There are also some PvPers who wouldn't mind at all an alternative, learner friendly campaign, and some would even play it on a regular basis.StihlReign wrote: »Now they've become paid testers for ZOS while the devs fall back to ignoring requests for updated information regarding the direction of the current tests.
Please provide a link to such an official statement from ZOS to back up your claim that PvPers work for ZOS and are even getting paid. I would like to apply.PC EU - V4hn10 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭Yes3. Please provide a link to such an official statement from ZOS to back up your claim that PvPers work for ZOS.
No. Don't be lazy. Look it up. I told you it's here. Find it.
"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS0 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesStihlReign wrote: »ZOS keeps using a vocabulary like “experimenting”, etc. It is clear that they are testing different ideas and systems, and none of those has any guarantee of becoming permanent. Vengeance might disappear entirely once all data is collected. I’m not sure why PvPers are panicking so badly, I guess deep inside they know that current PvP is just too broken on many levels.
PvPer's see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see in a FUTURE PvP environment so they've asked for clarity. Panic seems like a stretch but here you are.
PvEers see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see and don't care about. They would rather see a new chapter with more quests.
On what grounds do PvPers reserve the exclusive right to decide what the FUTURE PvP will look like? What's wrong with having regular Cyrodiil and a second, Vengeance-like campaign, both enabled at the same time?StihlReign wrote: »We gave PvErs a simple solution via CP and an easy to purchase 2 pc set to stop them from getting bombed and ganked during events. It was nerfed in record time, about 2 weeks. The info is in the patch notes.
LOL. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS? PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers, and now are also trying hard to take away any possibility of an additional PvP mode from those who would welcome such an alternative.StihlReign wrote: »Reading comprehension and objectivity are severely lacking in any Vengeance discussion. Also, the discrimination against PvE mains' voices and opinions, even when they pvp regularly (or used to), is disappointing. It gives an image of a PvP community that is a self-proclaimed elite but one devoid of vision, open-mindedness, and the ability to embrace change.
Also devoid of reading skills.
I'm not a PvP main since beta; claiming on this forum that you're a PvPer is pointless, and it just derails any discussion. Anyway, as I said, I don't care about what happens to the current version of PvP, and yes, I'm not going to play it as it is right now; it's an awful experience.
But I'm all in for testing a potential alternative PvP version. If Vengeance's results help fix the current PvP, then I'm happy for those who enjoy it. If Vengeance becomes a mode in its own right, much enhanced than what we saw so far, then I'm going to play it on a regular basis. If Vengeance gets deleted once testing is over, then I get at least 1 week of PvP every 3 months, while it lasts, that is fun when populations are balanced.
PvE has received an incredible amount of resources from the devs. PvP has one main zone and the devs couldn't be bothered to make even simple changes suggested by the players. Things are left half done, unexplained, ignored, mocked or given some of the worst excuses - while doing nothing, or something no one asked for. Why is clarity an unreasonable request?
This is patently false. Back in 2021, ZOS tested some players' ideas, like disabling crosshealing outside of groups or disabling proc sets, so yeah, devs bother from time to time. They also introduce things no one asked for, but since it's their game, they can do whatever they deem best, whether we agree or not.
Nobody is asking for a blind trust in ZOS, but rather that PvPers chill so they can access clarity of thinking and their reading skills again, and stop jumping to misguided conclusions like "Vengeance will replace all of PvP" or "PvEers hate us and want PvP deleted from the game."
Putting vengeance up as the only PvP option IS, IN FACT, forcing PvP players to do work for ZOS.0 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yesedward_frigidhands wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?
Maybe they would enjoy a less laggy and more balanced experience rather than the current state. PVD is a more enjoyable experience right now.
Maybe my PVE builds would stop getting decimated because they cannot use battle spirit as well.
Your builds were nerfed because they were overpowered in PvE. PvP had nothing to do with it.
false
It's true. The vast majority of everything ZOS does is in relation to PvE.0 -
aetherix8✭✭✭YesSaffronCitrusflower wrote: »StihlReign wrote: »ZOS keeps using a vocabulary like “experimenting”, etc. It is clear that they are testing different ideas and systems, and none of those has any guarantee of becoming permanent. Vengeance might disappear entirely once all data is collected. I’m not sure why PvPers are panicking so badly, I guess deep inside they know that current PvP is just too broken on many levels.
PvPer's see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see in a FUTURE PvP environment so they've asked for clarity. Panic seems like a stretch but here you are.
PvEers see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see and don't care about. They would rather see a new chapter with more quests.
On what grounds do PvPers reserve the exclusive right to decide what the FUTURE PvP will look like? What's wrong with having regular Cyrodiil and a second, Vengeance-like campaign, both enabled at the same time?StihlReign wrote: »We gave PvErs a simple solution via CP and an easy to purchase 2 pc set to stop them from getting bombed and ganked during events. It was nerfed in record time, about 2 weeks. The info is in the patch notes.
LOL. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS? PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers, and now are also trying hard to take away any possibility of an additional PvP mode from those who would welcome such an alternative.StihlReign wrote: »Reading comprehension and objectivity are severely lacking in any Vengeance discussion. Also, the discrimination against PvE mains' voices and opinions, even when they pvp regularly (or used to), is disappointing. It gives an image of a PvP community that is a self-proclaimed elite but one devoid of vision, open-mindedness, and the ability to embrace change.
Also devoid of reading skills.
I'm not a PvP main since beta; claiming on this forum that you're a PvPer is pointless, and it just derails any discussion. Anyway, as I said, I don't care about what happens to the current version of PvP, and yes, I'm not going to play it as it is right now; it's an awful experience.
But I'm all in for testing a potential alternative PvP version. If Vengeance's results help fix the current PvP, then I'm happy for those who enjoy it. If Vengeance becomes a mode in its own right, much enhanced than what we saw so far, then I'm going to play it on a regular basis. If Vengeance gets deleted once testing is over, then I get at least 1 week of PvP every 3 months, while it lasts, that is fun when populations are balanced.
PvE has received an incredible amount of resources from the devs. PvP has one main zone and the devs couldn't be bothered to make even simple changes suggested by the players. Things are left half done, unexplained, ignored, mocked or given some of the worst excuses - while doing nothing, or something no one asked for. Why is clarity an unreasonable request?
This is patently false. Back in 2021, ZOS tested some players' ideas, like disabling crosshealing outside of groups or disabling proc sets, so yeah, devs bother from time to time. They also introduce things no one asked for, but since it's their game, they can do whatever they deem best, whether we agree or not.
Nobody is asking for a blind trust in ZOS, but rather that PvPers chill so they can access clarity of thinking and their reading skills again, and stop jumping to misguided conclusions like "Vengeance will replace all of PvP" or "PvEers hate us and want PvP deleted from the game."
Putting vengeance up as the only PvP option IS, IN FACT, forcing PvP players to do work for ZOS.
You're free to play another game, as, IN FACT, nobody is forced to participate in Vengeance tests. You can just do a week long break from ESO; think of it as an extended maintenance.PC EU - V4hn10 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesSaffronCitrusflower wrote: »StihlReign wrote: »ZOS keeps using a vocabulary like “experimenting”, etc. It is clear that they are testing different ideas and systems, and none of those has any guarantee of becoming permanent. Vengeance might disappear entirely once all data is collected. I’m not sure why PvPers are panicking so badly, I guess deep inside they know that current PvP is just too broken on many levels.
PvPer's see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see in a FUTURE PvP environment so they've asked for clarity. Panic seems like a stretch but here you are.
PvEers see a ton of money going into the development of features they don't want to see and don't care about. They would rather see a new chapter with more quests.
On what grounds do PvPers reserve the exclusive right to decide what the FUTURE PvP will look like? What's wrong with having regular Cyrodiil and a second, Vengeance-like campaign, both enabled at the same time?StihlReign wrote: »We gave PvErs a simple solution via CP and an easy to purchase 2 pc set to stop them from getting bombed and ganked during events. It was nerfed in record time, about 2 weeks. The info is in the patch notes.
LOL. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS? PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers, and now are also trying hard to take away any possibility of an additional PvP mode from those who would welcome such an alternative.StihlReign wrote: »Reading comprehension and objectivity are severely lacking in any Vengeance discussion. Also, the discrimination against PvE mains' voices and opinions, even when they pvp regularly (or used to), is disappointing. It gives an image of a PvP community that is a self-proclaimed elite but one devoid of vision, open-mindedness, and the ability to embrace change.
Also devoid of reading skills.
I'm not a PvP main since beta; claiming on this forum that you're a PvPer is pointless, and it just derails any discussion. Anyway, as I said, I don't care about what happens to the current version of PvP, and yes, I'm not going to play it as it is right now; it's an awful experience.
But I'm all in for testing a potential alternative PvP version. If Vengeance's results help fix the current PvP, then I'm happy for those who enjoy it. If Vengeance becomes a mode in its own right, much enhanced than what we saw so far, then I'm going to play it on a regular basis. If Vengeance gets deleted once testing is over, then I get at least 1 week of PvP every 3 months, while it lasts, that is fun when populations are balanced.
PvE has received an incredible amount of resources from the devs. PvP has one main zone and the devs couldn't be bothered to make even simple changes suggested by the players. Things are left half done, unexplained, ignored, mocked or given some of the worst excuses - while doing nothing, or something no one asked for. Why is clarity an unreasonable request?
This is patently false. Back in 2021, ZOS tested some players' ideas, like disabling crosshealing outside of groups or disabling proc sets, so yeah, devs bother from time to time. They also introduce things no one asked for, but since it's their game, they can do whatever they deem best, whether we agree or not.
Nobody is asking for a blind trust in ZOS, but rather that PvPers chill so they can access clarity of thinking and their reading skills again, and stop jumping to misguided conclusions like "Vengeance will replace all of PvP" or "PvEers hate us and want PvP deleted from the game."
Putting vengeance up as the only PvP option IS, IN FACT, forcing PvP players to do work for ZOS.
You're free to play another game, as, IN FACT, nobody is forced to participate in Vengeance tests. You can just do a week long break from ESO; think of it as an extended maintenance.
How many posts do you think you've made condemning those who've said they refuse to participate in Vengeance? I know I've read at least a few.
You've made it pretty obvious you're stance on vengeance is not a good faith stance.0