Aislinna wrote: »

So, if you join a random dungeon run and get 3 speedrunners, while you want to run a different pace, you would downvote each player? And they in turn can all downvote you too? So, 1 disapprove and 2 approves for each of the speedrunners and 3 disapproves for you? Are you sure it's the speedrunners who will be playing alone?

Or maybe I just stay quiet, rush through the dungeon like crazy to “fit in,” and then… Disapprove! Yep.

Aislinna wrote: »

That doesn't sound like "community improvement" to me. And of course, no gaming community would ever abuse such an action lol. Good luck with your idea.

You’re right that any system like this could be abused if it’s just raw majority votes. That’s why safeguards would be important. For example:

1. Ratings could be averaged over time instead of just one dungeon, so a single group can’t “bury” someone.
2. Votes could be weighted by consistency (if a player gets disapprovals from many different groups, that’s a clearer signal).
3. A reporting/review system could filter out obvious trolling or abuse.

The point of the idea isn’t to punish people for having a different pace or playstyle, but to discourage repeated toxic behavior. One unfair vote won’t matter much if the majority of your runs go smoothly.

In the end, it’s about nudging people to be more respectful in group content, not creating a tool for bullying.

Definitely not going to be abused and turned around to people who have some specific idea of theirs to be the right one.

I see from the formulation of this suggestion that you are on the slow pace side on the "slow or speedrun" question.

This kind of rating system would be divisive by design, no matter how you implement it. It would pit the speedrunners against slower players. Both sides downvoting each other and the average you speak of would be based on which side has more active voters. Not players, but those who also vote. It wouldn't tell us if you are a nice player or not. Only that if you conform to the style that happens to be dominant. If speedrunners would be the dominant group, would you be ok with having longer queue times because you don't play like the speedrunners do?

And although I guess you could vote only when you are grouped with someone, that would still open ways for groups and even guilds to systematically downvote someone. We have addons like Toxic Players (a slight misnomer in my opinion, because it has other uses, like notifying if you meet a guildie or a friend) so there would be some addon you can use to share a list of players we like and don't like, so you will get notified in a dungeon "downvote this guy". And there would be very little ZOS could do to stop that kind of addons. And even if there would be, groups and guilds have discord or other methods of communication so even without any addons, they can gather their own list -- pen and paper style.

Not to mention new players and those who are already anxious about joining a group with strangers. Just the knowledge of a ranking system's existence would cause these players to fear even more to use the dungeon finder.

And not only irrational fear. It would place worse players and new players at a disadvantage. You start as a new player, get downvoted to oblivion and then... how do you improve when your queue times are quadrupled? What would motivate you as a new player to join those random groups if all you get is downvotes because you don't have meta sets yet and don't play as well as those who have thousands of hours in the game?

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Might be that this would be a tool created to nudge people in the right direction, but it would definitely become a tool for bullying just by existing, even if no one would be using it.

😆

No. Just no.

1. There will be people who downvote everyone for no good reason.
2. There will be people who downvote perfectly good and cooperative players because they didn't run the dungeon exactly like the voter wanted them to.
3. There will be people who game the system by queuing with people they know and upvoting themselves over and over again.
4. There will be people who abuse the system in ways I haven't thought of.

Social credit scores are bad. They're bad in real life and they would be bad in this game.

I don't really care about the speed runner issue, I try not to fall on either side. If I want a specific group I post it in discord or look for guild mates. I'm an officer in my guild and I always encourage the same of my members. Suggestions like this are ripe for abuse. It's a dungeon, not an Uber driver. Let's try to keep it that way.

This seems like a good idea in theory, but I can see plenty of room for this to be abused such that it wouldn't actually pan out as being a good thing. Imagine a situation where someone gives a rating to someone that is not reflective of their performance in the game. For example, imagine giving a bad rating for a player in your group that you don't like because:

a. They killed you in Cyrodil, Imp City, BGs, or a duel
b. They undercut your listing on a high-price item in the same guild trader
c. They looked at you funny and now you are offended.
d. You don't approve of their gamer tag or gamer profile picture
e. You had a bad day and your just in a mood.
f. Your crankypated.

You catch my drift. You could be downgrading a player's rating intentionally and for reasons that are completely UNRELATED to combat performance. This, in turn, will impact how that person is able to get grouped with other players? Seems unfair to me.

And by the way, this could totally work in reverse, where you artificially inflate a person's rating so that they get grouped with other high-rated players, when they could be ill prepared to tackle hard content.

We just need to accept that when it comes to groupfinder, there is no PERFECT system to get people grouped to do content. The best way to be able to take on content, then, is to join a group or have friends that you can group with to do content so you don't have to deal with the random nature of the groupfinder.

@BXR_Lonestar totally agree.

of course, like an old fahrt i could rant: there is so little respect nowadays, but, wait a minute, time is irreversible.
i get massively downvoted at reddit for sincere newbie questions (like what node outputs how many layers LLM consumes in VRAM and how many are offloaded to DRAM?" - and the funny thing - i am getting no answers, just them downvotes, though a knowledgeable elitist could write me a single line containing the answer (it took me 12 days to find it by myself. as neither Google nor ChatGPT helps with that) rant over).
Not only reddit - Uber drivers can tell you stories they are downvoted for absolutely irrelevant reasons.

and here - i see an offer to implement a Huge red "#@$@ THEM!" button after a group dungeon run. so i wonder if it will be punched?

why i decided to reply: The Orville s01e07 "Majority Rule" - so nice TV series. hope you watched this certain episode :-)

I’ve even seen people come to the forums specifically to complain about people actively doing their jobs. “My healer is using Chakram and I think that skill looks ugly! Downvote!”

People will target anything. “Oh, that character is a sorc and I hate flappies!” “Arc beams are OP so them beaming everything down before I get there is rude!” “Their character is wearing an outfit that suggests they have politics that differ from mine!” “This player did not submit their character name to the Lore Police for approval so it doesn’t match that race/gender combo!”

I don’t PuG because I don’t want to deal with people like that. I love dungeons… but I’m running exclusively with friends and guildies. I’d rather solo something than have to subject myself to some of the inane things I used to see again.

You want to guarantee a quest run? Guildies. You want to guarantee a speed run? Guildies. You want to guarantee a run that hits all side areas? Guildies.
But if you decide to PuG, you get random people. And you can’t demand anything from randos.

No only is this a terrible idea, but we also don't need yet another complaint thread about getting grouped up with a speedrunner in a normal base game dungeon. Get ESO+ for DLC dungeons or queue for veteran and you'll notice that speedrunnners aren't there anymore.

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

I think this is a great idea and will fix all of the random dungeon problems just like MMR has fixed all of the problems in battlegrounds.

Well, I was going to say this is a bad idea, but a system similar to MMR would be a better option. i.e. Group Dungeon players based on CP, Equipment, previous number of clears of the dungeon and dungeon achievements. This should result in grouping of people with similar ability together and that will improve the experience for everyone.

Of course the above falls apart if the pool of players to select from is small and spread over a large range of capability.

I do think this would result in less fake queuing, equally matched groups, and would be better than the current system and the proposed player rating/review system.

<sarcasm>Maybe we can get it so dps are forced to submit parses to get approved by GM's to be able to queue for respective difficulty levels, if not they are not allowed to queue at all. </sarcasm>

I don't see this being a good idea, I deleted my Reddit account because of these types of things. If you don't like or agree with someone, down vote.

Personally I don't think there are issues with the system as it is, however I do wish it took into account if you have someone blocked if they match with you in the future. Most of other games seemed to do this, and it just makes sense. I am guessing they cannot find a coder willing to do it though, if they haven't at this point.

No. I can see nothing but gate keeping and elitism and toxicity coming from such a system.

There is already a rating list in game ... it's called the Friends list.