Let us Devour our Companions (or use other corpse abilities on them)

AcadianPaladin · September 19

I could almost forgive it in Ember's case - given her hairstyle.

metheglyn · 12:22AM

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Part of the sticking point for me in letting players choose to be full evil is accurately representing the consequences of it in game, particularly in an MMO. I've never played a vampire, but from what I understand if your character is one, there is a point where merchant npcs won't interact with you--a pretty realistic consequence based on how the populace in general views these matters. I don't know the details of how that works, but it is the kind of game mechanic I'm in favor of, adding to the realism of the world.

Absolutely. Decisions should lead to reactions, including negative ones if you behave in a way that an npc would condemn (if there are surviving witnesses). Actually, an actual disposition system for characters and factions (beyond just the few companion characters) would have been an interesting thing. I know, it might be a bit much, especially over 10 years into the game. But they could at least give us a bit of this during some of the quests. And actually, they did something like this in the base game, rudimentarily, where some npcs would also comment negatively on quest choices you made. But it was just random ambient dialogue, basically.

I've even seen people complain about the random ambient dialogue, saying how they don't like these npcs griping at them. While I might wonder exactly how everyone in Tamriel seems to know exactly what I did and when, I do think these types of comments by npcs are a good thing to have. Besides, I amuse myself by coming up with comebacks to the griping and grouchy npcs.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

However, I've seen complaints on the forums often enough about people not wanting these kinds of consequences--using certain necromancer skills in towns being one of them.

I've seen those posts. My stance is that it is an rpg, the depicted societies have a moral system and know the difference between acceptable behavior and crimes, so criminal behavior should have consequences. If we say raising the dead in the middle of town is fine, why do we punish murder or theft? Then we could just abolish the game's justice system altogether.

I agree. I think people do have a point when they say it doesn't make sense for sorcerers to be able to have their daedric summons trailing along after them in town. Seems like the people of Tamriel wouldn't want to see scamps and twilights and clannfear strolling through the markets. And since, in the wild, my characters often come across daedric summonings gone wrong and have to rescue the mages from their own folly, I can see why it might be hard to trust that the sorcerers are in complete control of their summons.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

If people want to play evil, or morally grey, or purely mercenary, there should be consequences. There could even be consequences for playing the fully upstanding moral hero, because it stands to reason there are people in Tamriel who might not want to get involved with such a person, either. But I think all of that is more detail than we'd ever see, for various reasons. Even if you do get fully negative rapport with your companions, they never outright leave you, which I think is a pity, but I understand why it works that way.

Still I think it would be possible to get into more morally grey territory within quests, at least. And that goes for quest npcs alike. Now we mostly have a very black and white view: Either heroes or villains. You never see an "evil" character acting against the clichéd expectations. Which would be much more interesting. I wrote it in another thread: For example some turn of events that forces you to cooperate for once.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but what happens after that specific turn of events is taken care of and the need to cooperate no longer exists? Does the story end there and we all go our separate ways, or do we have to then figure out what to do with the "bad guy who helped us this once"? I know that's a simplistic representation, but depending on the "badness" of the npc in question, how do we resolve the matter once the need for cooperation is gone?

Elvenheart · 1:29AM

I’ve always hated the fact that companions can “die” in battle and then come back to life afterwards or be resurrected in battle like a player. I think they should simply fall to their knee, with maybe a synergy similar to resurrection where we can get them back on their feet without using a soul gem, or then they just get up automatically after the fact. Hardly anything would be different in the mechanic, but it would just simply make more sense.

Erickson9610 · 1:38AM

Elvenheart wrote: »

I’ve always hated the fact that companions can “die” in battle and then come back to life afterwards or be resurrected in battle like a player. I think they should simply fall to their knee, with maybe a synergy similar to resurrection where we can get them back on their feet without using a soul gem, or then they just get up automatically after the fact. Hardly anything would be different in the mechanic, but it would just simply make more sense.

That's how it works in the Portals to the Unknown in the Infinite Archive. If a player or Companion's health drops to zero (such as when dueling Aramril in the Theatre of War) they instead fall to their knee, and a player can use a synergy to revive them.

While that would be an alternative, I don't necessarily think it's a good one. For one, the resurrection by synergy is instant, so you could constantly revive your Companion whenever they die with no danger to your own survival, removing a sense of consequence for not protecting them in combat. Also, this would defeat the purpose of the newly-introduced Shared Burden crafted set, which automatically revives slain Companions once every 12 seconds.

Syldras · 10:29AM

metheglyn wrote: »

I've even seen people complain about the random ambient dialogue, saying how they don't like these npcs griping at them. While I might wonder exactly how everyone in Tamriel seems to know exactly what I did and when, I do think these types of comments by npcs are a good thing to have. Besides, I amuse myself by coming up with comebacks to the griping and grouchy npcs.

If I play an rpg, I expect and enjoy (it just contributes to a lively world) a more or less "realistic" depiction of people - meaning that there's a variety of opinions, beliefs and factions, which naturally means that not everyone will like the decisions my character made. Then again, I never cared to be praised, neither in games nor in real life (I just don't care what random people think about me, be it positive or negative), so I don't get this strong aversion against people disagreeing anyway. What I care for in a game is atmosphere. An npc admiring Naemon disapproving me for supporting Ayrenn contributes to the atmosphere just the same way as another npc cheering at me for saving his village.

metheglyn wrote: »

I agree. I think people do have a point when they say it doesn't make sense for sorcerers to be able to have their daedric summons trailing along after them in town. Seems like the people of Tamriel wouldn't want to see scamps and twilights and clannfear strolling through the markets. And since, in the wild, my characters often come across daedric summonings gone wrong and have to rescue the mages from their own folly, I can see why it might be hard to trust that the sorcerers are in complete control of their summons.

According to the lore background, daedric summonings seem to be much more accepted. The Mages Guild even uses lesser daedra like scamps as couriers. Summoning a dancing fire attronach just as entertainment also seems to happen. It's risky, of course, but the people of Tamriel don't seem to completely disagree with it and seem to usually assume that the summoner has everything under control.

If ZOS decided to ban daedra within towns just because they block things and the flapping annoys other players, I still would be fine with it, by the way. I usually unsummon them anyway if I don't need them anymore since the flapping also annoys myself. But if they ban these, maybe they should be as consequential when it comes to daedric pets, mounts, half-rotten zombie horses, etc

metheglyn wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but what happens after that specific turn of events is taken care of and the need to cooperate no longer exists? Does the story end there and we all go our separate ways, or do we have to then figure out what to do with the "bad guy who helped us this once"? I know that's a simplistic representation, but depending on the "badness" of the npc in question, how do we resolve the matter once the need for cooperation is gone?

Probably part ways, in most of the cases? It really depends on the situation. I don't want to derail this thread too much.

metheglyn · 12:57PM

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I agree. I think people do have a point when they say it doesn't make sense for sorcerers to be able to have their daedric summons trailing along after them in town. Seems like the people of Tamriel wouldn't want to see scamps and twilights and clannfear strolling through the markets. And since, in the wild, my characters often come across daedric summonings gone wrong and have to rescue the mages from their own folly, I can see why it might be hard to trust that the sorcerers are in complete control of their summons.

According to the lore background, daedric summonings seem to be much more accepted. The Mages Guild even uses lesser daedra like scamps as couriers. Summoning a dancing fire attronach just as entertainment also seems to happen. It's risky, of course, but the people of Tamriel don't seem to completely disagree with it and seem to usually assume that the summoner has everything under control.

If ZOS decided to ban daedra within towns just because they block things and the flapping annoys other players, I still would be fine with it, by the way. I usually unsummon them anyway if I don't need them anymore since the flapping also annoys myself. But if they ban these, maybe they should be as consequential when it comes to daedric pets, mounts, half-rotten zombie horses, etc

Yeah, the mounts and pets do stretch plausibility a bit at times, don't they? Warden bears, too.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but what happens after that specific turn of events is taken care of and the need to cooperate no longer exists? Does the story end there and we all go our separate ways, or do we have to then figure out what to do with the "bad guy who helped us this once"? I know that's a simplistic representation, but depending on the "badness" of the npc in question, how do we resolve the matter once the need for cooperation is gone?

Probably part ways, in most of the cases? It really depends on the situation. I don't want to derail this thread too much.

Yeah, I was thinking we were getting close to derailing the thread. I'll bow out and let the werewolves continue to make their case.

Erickson9610 · 1:15PM

metheglyn wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but what happens after that specific turn of events is taken care of and the need to cooperate no longer exists? Does the story end there and we all go our separate ways, or do we have to then figure out what to do with the "bad guy who helped us this once"? I know that's a simplistic representation, but depending on the "badness" of the npc in question, how do we resolve the matter once the need for cooperation is gone?

Probably part ways, in most of the cases? It really depends on the situation. I don't want to derail this thread too much.

Yeah, I was thinking we were getting close to derailing the thread. I'll bow out and let the werewolves continue to make their case.

I do want to stress that this thread isn't solely about werewolves. It also applies to Templars and Necromancers who would want their Companion to count as a corpse.

spartaxoxo · 1:59PM

Elvenheart wrote: »

I’ve always hated the fact that companions can “die” in battle and then come back to life afterwards or be resurrected in battle like a player. I think they should simply fall to their knee, with maybe a synergy similar to resurrection where we can get them back on their feet without using a soul gem, or then they just get up automatically after the fact. Hardly anything would be different in the mechanic, but it would just simply make more sense.

I agree with this and have felt this way for a while now. The companions dying in battle and needing a soul gem to be revived makes me feel like the devs forgot the story of their game. We can only do that because we're the vestige. There's even a quest where a character that knows who and what we are wants to use our undying state to help them.

Mirri and the others should be downed and not dead. I get the gameplay reasons they die. I support a devour for that reason. But lore wise it does not make sense. I just have to disregard it as non-canon video game stuff the same way I disregard every guard in the universe knowing our bounty.

katanagirl1 · 7:40PM

I would think that using corpse-consuming abilities on Companions would mean that they could not be resurrected and would be permanently dead.

Then the argument that they are just downed and not dead makes more sense. That would make the OP request impossible, though.

zaria · 8:02PM

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

You're a monster

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

If you want to devour your companion you permanently lost that companion on that toon for balance.

Obviously that's a terrible idea in the event a player accidentally uses a corpse ability on the wrong target, but it would be funny to get a remark regarding that from the Companion after they're revived. Players sometimes send you hate tells for using corpse abilities on their bodies, so it would only be fitting.

Yes like you fight an world boss with many adds as an stamplar you would obviously use Repentance, and if companion dies you might not notice, more so if its multiple other in the fight. Most corpse abilities use all corpses around.