Warden Charm: we all know.

The_Meathead · 2:29AM

All right, mighty powers that be.

We all know it, you *should* know it, so if you could just go ahead and change/delete/nerf the Warden Class Script, that would be swell.

There have been a zillion threads on this and it can't take much for you guys to notice the uptick in Wardens in Cyrodiil and BGs, so can we please just scoot along to the productive stage and go ahead and fix the problem? It would be much appreciated if we can go ahead and halve the usual 9 month waiting process.

ESO_Nightingale · 3:05AM

i want it to be good in pve. if it dropped a frost damage field, or even a magic damage field instead of an annoying charm, that'd be better for everyone.

IncultaWolf · 3:06AM

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

SkaiFaith · 7:27AM

What I always get as the issue in these threads is the fact, like old fear, it makes your character force-move and get stuck in walls.
IMO, if they remove just that feature as they did with fear and leave it as it is now for the rest, it would be enough of a change.
It doesn't need to be reworked entirely.

EDIT: by the way, it's annoying in PvE too when you apply it to a trash pack and they start running around in circles becoming "un-aimable".

Chrisilis · 11:32AM

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

Hello, just wanted to say Ive gotten stuck in a few walls and also some bridges, just got knocked in there and couldnt get out. The "Get me Unstuck" feature in the help menu works in Bg's. It kills you so you can respawn just as tho ko'd by an enemy player.

Thumbless_Bot · 11:41AM

Chrisilis wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

Hello, just wanted to say Ive gotten stuck in a few walls and also some bridges, just got knocked in there and couldnt get out. The "Get me Unstuck" feature in the help menu works in Bg's. It kills you so you can respawn just as tho ko'd by an enemy player.

Typical zos. Let's introduce problems and not fix the problem. Let's just make a bandaid for it. I am honestly surprised there isn't a five piece that does this... everything, from broken classes, to ball groups is solved with a new five piece. Smh

Ive gotten stuck a few times. Can't use this if you.are stuck in combat. Need a five.piece for that as well i guess.

MincMincMinc · 12:49PM

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

You forgot the part where it brushes your teeth too

The charm should just be put on the greenbalance ult which is hardly used and should function as a peel support ult. Then just make the warden class script a cleanse or something.

Æthërnüm · 12:54PM

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

it can be "prepared" and healed up LMAO.
about undodgeable/unblockable stuns: streak, fossilize, javelin isn't an issue for you, but charm is?
learn to deal with it guys, if you lack of skill, then don't ask someone to make it easier for you.

MincMincMinc · 1:22PM

Æthërnüm wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

it can be "prepared" and healed up LMAO.
about undodgeable/unblockable stuns: streak, fossilize, javelin isn't an issue for you, but charm is?
learn to deal with it guys, if you lack of skill, then don't ask someone to make it easier for you.

Are we going to pretend that single target, gcd locked uncounterable stuns with no burst are the same as the strongest healing skill in the game that also gives the strongest healing buff in the game can have an effect that on its own could be an entire skill or even ultimate?

At least on streak the damage is non existent compared to the healing tooltip
Streak's mobility probably is comparable to major vitality, however this is also a bane too because it makes streak not usable for offense in alot of fight scenarios.
As far as the stun or charm comparison the core issue is that it is rather clear when an enemy streaks. Versus the ground effect that most people cant see in combat because of the other million effects going off with their own animations. There used to be a point in this game where the design team would highlight important animations like stuns or ultimates instead of making every little proc animation look as crazy as possible.

Avran_Sylt · 2:39PM

I mean I don't like how janky it is, but it would be cool if there was a CC type that took Magicka to break free from. (but not relegated to a single script).

Æthërnüm · 2:51PM

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Æthërnüm wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

it can be "prepared" and healed up LMAO.
about undodgeable/unblockable stuns: streak, fossilize, javelin isn't an issue for you, but charm is?
learn to deal with it guys, if you lack of skill, then don't ask someone to make it easier for you.

Are we going to pretend that single target, gcd locked uncounterable stuns with no burst are the same as the strongest healing skill in the game that also gives the strongest healing buff in the game can have an effect that on its own could be an entire skill or even ultimate?

At least on streak the damage is non existent compared to the healing tooltip
Streak's mobility probably is comparable to major vitality, however this is also a bane too because it makes streak not usable for offense in alot of fight scenarios.
As far as the stun or charm comparison the core issue is that it is rather clear when an enemy streaks. Versus the ground effect that most people cant see in combat because of the other million effects going off with their own animations. There used to be a point in this game where the design team would highlight important animations like stuns or ultimates instead of making every little proc animation look as crazy as possible.

if you can't see ground effect - it's your issues, i see it always and i have no problems when warden's charm used against me. If you know how to counterplay it - it's not harmful at all. when you see that thing under you - heal up and get ready to break free. But streak and fos is something different, you can't be ready to it when your opponent prepare full nuke combo. Dude, you're talking bs.

Gabriel_H · 4:30PM

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Typical zos. Let's introduce problems and not fix the problem. Let's just make a bandaid for it. I am honestly surprised there isn't a five piece that does this... everything, from broken classes, to ball groups is solved with a new five piece. Smh

Standing Still of Agony
2 items: Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
3 items: Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 items: Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
5 items: Getting stuck in a wall creates an area under the enemy that put you in the wall enemies within 12 meters after 0.8 seconds. After 2 seconds, deal 1705 Physical Damage to all enemies within 7 meters of you and teleporting you 50m into the air and allowing you to fall back down without taking damage. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage. The pull will not apply Crowd Control Immunity but works once every 7 seconds per target.

StihlReign · 4:51PM

MincMincMinc wrote: »

As far as the stun or charm comparison the core issue is that it is rather clear when an enemy streaks. Versus the ground effect that most people cant see in combat because of the other million effects going off with their own animations. There used to be a point in this game where the design team would highlight important animations like stuns or ultimates instead of making every little proc animation look as crazy as possible.

No, the core issue is the ability sucks and should never have made it off the drawing board.

Why is it so difficult to remove rather than validate, troll abilities and sets?

EDIT: Spelling

TheDreamstride · 5:01PM

Æthërnüm wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

it can be "prepared" and healed up LMAO.
about undodgeable/unblockable stuns: streak, fossilize, javelin isn't an issue for you, but charm is?
learn to deal with it guys, if you lack of skill, then don't ask someone to make it easier for you.

Hard agree here. Lots of fights are won via streak, javelin etc. I feel like charm is only getting attention because it's a mastery skill that stands out a lot compared to others. Undodgeable? Bombers leave little to no room for counterplay. Cannot be blocked? Javelin exists. Streak wins duels pretty much all the time. Charm has a ground aoe indicator with a delay. If you can't take 3 seconds of your time to get away from your opponent to avoid charm, that's on you.

I've seen it a couple of times being buggy and I 100% agree it should be fixed, apart from that it's not a massive problem in pvp atm.

StihlReign · 5:04PM

It's horrible in PvP, pushes us into rocks, under the terrain, into walls, can stack and you can be stuck in the charm unable to break free except for logging out. The ability functions like a bug.

Major_Mangle · 5:09PM

The issues with charm are the following if you ask me:
1. It puts you into solid objects forcing you to use the /stuck command. It should for obvious reasons be fixed.

2. The sustain offered from the class script when failing to charm/cc a target should either be reworked or removed completely. The skill doesn´t need to refund around half its cost if you failed to do what you aimed to do. Sustain is already too easy to cover in PvP (especially in CP PvP).

A funny trick if you find yourself being caught by the charm often is to dodge roll while inside the charm. Even if you get charmed/cc:d, the dodge roll "avoidance window" will remain while you´re charmed and any attack that doesn´t ignore dodge roll mechanics (such as AoE´s or DoTs) will be avoided while you´re charmed.

El_Borracho · 8:38PM

Æthërnüm wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I lost count of how many threads there are about this issue at this point. My main problem with it is the fact that it cannot be blocked and cannot be roll dodged on top of the 70% snare and huge aoe leaving little counterplay. I think it's doing too much compared to other class mastery scripts and I'd rather see something like an increased cooldown or lower resource restore than just nuking it.

I remember doing a battleground, and it forced my character into a wall, and I had to sit there until the game ended. Couldn't take damage or cast abilities. They changed the old fear mechanic a long time ago for the same reason because it would make your character run away and cause you to get stuck. Just apply battlespirit to the script so it stuns instead of charm perhaps?

it can be "prepared" and healed up LMAO.
about undodgeable/unblockable stuns: streak, fossilize, javelin isn't an issue for you, but charm is?
learn to deal with it guys, if you lack of skill, then don't ask someone to make it easier for you.

If charm, javelin, and fossilize are identical, then why has warden become one of the most popular classes in Cyrodiil since the class mastery skill entered the game? Numbers don't lie. Before this charm skill went live, Templars were relegated to niche play or players who were adept at playing them, normally in a support role. DKs hardly ever use Fossilize as there are better tools in their kit. Neither were at the numbers that warden is now.

But as others said, you glossed over the biggest part: a massive radius AND can be combined with the biggest heal in the game AND can be combined with another buff when cast. Put 2-3 wardens together and the AOE gets to the point where you can not get out of it in time. Let me know when javelin and fossilize come with those options.