Let us Devour our Companions (or use other corpse abilities on them)

Erickson9610 · September 18

When a player character dies (ally or otherwise) you can use their corpse for Werewolf's Devour synergy, Templar's Repentance ability, or any of the Necromancer corpse consuming abilities, but Companions do not let you use any sort of corpse consuming ability on them.

Here's what it looks like to have your Companion fall in combat:

And here's what freshly-slain corpses usually look like:

For reference, an eligible corpse glows red while in Werewolf form, glows yellow if Repentance is slotted in the human form, or glows blue when any Necromancer corpse consuming ability is slotted in the human form while Repentance is not slotted:

Since I'm in Werewolf form, the corpse glows red if it's eligible to be consumed, and I get the option to use the Devour synergy if my crosshair is over the corpse. However, Companions never let you use corpse abilities on them, even when fallen players and NPCs do. In the case of allied players, you get the option of using corpse abilities on them or resurrecting them, so it's bizarre that Companions only give you the option of resurrecting them without letting you use corpse abilities on them.

I want to be able to use corpse abilities on fallen Companions because it would be useful in combat, and it's already possible to use corpse abilities on fallen allied players. Plus, it would be fun to use corpse abilities like Devour or Bitter Harvest on the Companions we don't like.

spartaxoxo · September 18

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Plus, it would be fun to use corpse abilities like Devour or Bitter Harvest on the Companions we don't like.

....I ain't touching that comment....but I support this change!

Ragnarok0130 · 12:09AM

You're a monster and Ember doesn't deserve that. If you want to devour your companion you permanently lost that companion on that toon for balance.

Erickson9610 · 1:15AM

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

You're a monster

Thanks!

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Ember doesn't deserve that.

Well, if you look at her Silver Dawn outfit, she probably had it coming to her.

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

If you want to devour your companion you permanently lost that companion on that toon for balance.

Obviously that's a terrible idea in the event a player accidentally uses a corpse ability on the wrong target, but it would be funny to get a remark regarding that from the Companion after they're revived. Players sometimes send you hate tells for using corpse abilities on their bodies, so it would only be fitting.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Plus, it would be fun to use corpse abilities like Devour or Bitter Harvest on the Companions we don't like.

....I ain't touching that comment....but I support this change!

When I first read this response, I thought I may have gone a little too far with that comment of mine, but then I realized that people have been doing things like this for ages to characters they dislike, like Nazeem from Skyrim.

ESO_player123 · 1:21AM

Eww.. You spent so much time gaining their trust rapport and now this

LootAllTheStuff · 1:25AM

I would think you should at least take a significant hit to rapport for doing that, so it would have to be a carefully considered decision and not something you'd automatically hit whenever they die.

Erickson9610 · 1:32AM

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

I would think you should at least take a significant hit to rapport for doing that, so it would have to be a carefully considered decision and not something you'd automatically hit whenever they die.

How would this work with AoE corpse consuming abilities like Repentance and Bitter Harvest?

IncultaWolf · 1:38AM

Ember deserves this 100%. She hates werewolves

Erickson9610 · 1:55AM

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Eww.. You spent so much time gaining their trust rapport and now this

Even a man who is pure at heart and says his prayers by night may become a wolf when the wolfsbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.

BretonMage · 1:58AM

You should lose the companion that you feed on. No one should have to put up with being eaten (can't believe I have to spell out the obvious). Also, lore-wise, they're not like a player, who's a vestige, when you feed on them, they die. It's not like a vampire, who can just drain a little blood.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

[
When I first read this response, I thought I may have gone a little too far with that comment of mine, but then I realized that people have been doing things like this for ages to characters they dislike, like Nazeem from Skyrim.

I have always thought the violently spiteful reactions to Nazeem were beyond strange. Wanting to stab a person who makes a condescending remark to you is just.. yeah, no.

Erickson9610 · 2:27AM

BretonMage wrote: »

You should lose the companion that you feed on. No one should have to put up with being eaten (can't believe I have to spell out the obvious). Also, lore-wise, they're not like a player, who's a vestige, when you feed on them, they die. It's not like a vampire, who can just drain a little blood.

Why is it that Companions can be revived with Soul Gems? They're not the Vestige, so the reason has to be about gameplay mechanics. Yet, certain Companions will have dialogue when you revive them, meaning that their death and resurrection is canonical. Also, how can a Companion just revive on the spot after combat ends? This is an inconsistency that, ultimately, doesn't mean much.

It shouldn't matter if the player consecrates the Companion's soul (via Repentance) or siphons the life from their corpse (via Restoring Tether) or devours their corpse, if there is no consequence to the Companion dying in the first place. Their body and soul do not change whatsoever.

So, in an effort to make Companions more consistent with the combat system, their bodies should be eligible for use with corpse consuming abilities, up until the point where they are revived. That's how it works for players.

BretonMage · 3:00AM

Being killed in combat and revived is a gameplay mechanic, yes. Feeding is a choice though.

In any case, there are issues that feeding on someone presents. To feed on a helpless companion without their consent should not be an option. Otoh, to have a companion who will consent to being literally ravaged and consumed is just, well, hmm.

Syldras · 3:04AM

BretonMage wrote: »

In any case, there are issues that feeding on someone presents.

Are these issues also issues for werewolves, necromancers and evil cultists?

spartaxoxo · 3:26AM

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

You're a monster

Thanks!

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Ember doesn't deserve that.

Well, if you look at her Silver Dawn outfit, she probably had it coming to her.

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

If you want to devour your companion you permanently lost that companion on that toon for balance.

Obviously that's a terrible idea in the event a player accidentally uses a corpse ability on the wrong target, but it would be funny to get a remark regarding that from the Companion after they're revived. Players sometimes send you hate tells for using corpse abilities on their bodies, so it would only be fitting.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Plus, it would be fun to use corpse abilities like Devour or Bitter Harvest on the Companions we don't like.

....I ain't touching that comment....but I support this change!

When I first read this response, I thought I may have gone a little too far with that comment of mine, but then I realized that people have been doing things like this for ages to characters they dislike, like Nazeem from Skyrim.

I mean the vibes are a little bit off with that too but I was just joking around. It's not a big deal. And definitely shouldn't be a reason to limit actual gameplay functionality.

Erickson9610 · 3:27AM

BretonMage wrote: »

Being killed in combat and revived is a gameplay mechanic, yes. Feeding is a choice though.

In any case, there are issues that feeding on someone presents. To feed on a helpless companion without their consent should not be an option. Otoh, to have a companion who will consent to being literally ravaged and consumed is just, well, hmm.

Are we calling into question the morality of unsolicited use of corpse consuming abilities on slain characters?

Yes, I'm sure we all know that necromancy in general is bad. So is devouring the flesh of slain bodies. Though, I'm not sure how you'd rank the act of consecrating someone's soul.

Players don't ask these questions when given the choice to do these things to other players in the game because it's just a video game. I usually Devour other players before reviving them, because I want more time in Werewolf Transformation. I love using Repentance because it's a free emergency sustain and crossheal ability. And I get extra penetration when I'm using Detonating Siphon via the Dismember passive.

So how exactly is using corpse abilities on a player any different from using them on an NPC or a Companion? Why is it suddenly an issue to do these things to fictional characters with no real emotion, when it's perfectly fine to do these things to player characters who are controlled by real life human beings?

Grizzbeorn · 3:40AM

As a werewolf, myself, the desire to devour a Companion, or other ally, makes absolutely no sense to me.
You won't convince me otherwise, so don't even try. It's just wrong.

Erickson9610 · 3:45AM

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

You're a monster

Thanks!

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Ember doesn't deserve that.

Well, if you look at her Silver Dawn outfit, she probably had it coming to her.

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

If you want to devour your companion you permanently lost that companion on that toon for balance.

Obviously that's a terrible idea in the event a player accidentally uses a corpse ability on the wrong target, but it would be funny to get a remark regarding that from the Companion after they're revived. Players sometimes send you hate tells for using corpse abilities on their bodies, so it would only be fitting.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Plus, it would be fun to use corpse abilities like Devour or Bitter Harvest on the Companions we don't like.

....I ain't touching that comment....but I support this change!

When I first read this response, I thought I may have gone a little too far with that comment of mine, but then I realized that people have been doing things like this for ages to characters they dislike, like Nazeem from Skyrim.

I mean the vibes are a little bit off with that too but I was just joking around. It's not a big deal. And definitely shouldn't be a reason to limit actual gameplay functionality.

Yeah, I was trying to make the title of the thread be a bit humorous and eye-catching (after all, who specifically asks to devour their companions?) but the point I'm trying to make is that functionally, Companion corpses are an outlier and should be adjusted so that players with corpse consuming abilities can make use of them. I could've done without that comment of mine, but at least this thread has a lot of conversation in it now.

Erickson9610 · 3:49AM

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

As a werewolf, myself, the desire to devour a Companion, or other ally, makes absolutely no sense to me.
You won't convince me otherwise, so don't even try. It's just wrong.

How about the other corpse consuming abilities? Would you use Bitter Harvest on your slain ally or Companion for extra Ultimate and healing, or Repentance on them to heal yourself and nearby living allies while restoring Stamina to yourself?

I can understand how it feels "wrong" to use Devour on an ally or Companion, but it's really not that different from using any other corpse ability on them. Devour just restores Health and transformation timer to yourself, rather than Ultimate+Health or Health+Stamina.

Syldras · 4:14AM

I look at this from a roleplaying perspective:

In ESO, you can murder innocent people, including sending their souls to the Void by using the Blade of Woe. You can cause horrible outcomes deliberately in some base game side quests, leading to the death of innocent people. You can steal. You can threaten and rob travelling merchants. You can raise the dead. You can generally use skills that count as a crime in Tamriel.

Also in other TES games, you could make horrible choices, if you think of some of the daedric quests in Skyrim, for example, including the ones for Namira (luring an Aedra priest into a lair of cannibals, sacrificing him and participating in the following feast) and Boethiah (sacrificing your companion at Boethiah's shrine).

Simply put: You can play a horrible/immoral/evil character. So why should you not be able to eat your dead companion if you choose to? That really doesn't sound any worse than the things player characters can already do in TES games.

I don't play any werewolves, by the way, and neither am I interested in harming the companions I use here. I just don't think what OP suggested is scandalous compared to other things possible in this game and other TES games.

BretonMage · 4:58AM

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So how exactly is using corpse abilities on a player any different from using them on an NPC or a Companion? Why is it suddenly an issue to do these things to fictional characters with no real emotion, when it's perfectly fine to do these things to player characters who are controlled by real life human beings?

Can you use that ability on a player? I don't think it's perfectly fine to use it on another player without asking, or without being grouped up at least.

Syldras wrote: »

I look at this from a roleplaying perspective:

In ESO, you can murder innocent people, including sending their souls to the Void by using the Blade of Woe. You can cause horrible outcomes deliberately in some base game side quests, leading to the death of innocent people. You can steal. You can threaten and rob travelling merchants. You can raise the dead. You can generally use skills that count as a crime in Tamriel.

Also in other TES games, you could make horrible choices, if you think of some of the daedric quests in Skyrim, for example, including the ones for Namira (luring an Aedra priest into a lair of cannibals, sacrificing him and participating in the following feast) and Boethiah (sacrificing your companion at Boethiah's shrine).

Yup, you can do all those things which are seen as reprehensible, but it results in the death of the NPC. Which is part of the reason why a couple of us here are suggesting your companion should no longer be available to you after.

Also, take someone like Sharp. I think he would definitely want to leave if you did that to him. Probably Isobel as well.

Erickson9610 · 5:49AM

BretonMage wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So how exactly is using corpse abilities on a player any different from using them on an NPC or a Companion? Why is it suddenly an issue to do these things to fictional characters with no real emotion, when it's perfectly fine to do these things to player characters who are controlled by real life human beings?

Can you use that ability on a player? I don't think it's perfectly fine to use it on another player without asking, or without being grouped up at least.

Yes, you can use corpse abilities on slain players. You see this in PvP all the time. Requiring players to be grouped would mean we could never use corpse abilities on enemy players, which would not be a good change.

BretonMage wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I look at this from a roleplaying perspective:

In ESO, you can murder innocent people, including sending their souls to the Void by using the Blade of Woe. You can cause horrible outcomes deliberately in some base game side quests, leading to the death of innocent people. You can steal. You can threaten and rob travelling merchants. You can raise the dead. You can generally use skills that count as a crime in Tamriel.

Also in other TES games, you could make horrible choices, if you think of some of the daedric quests in Skyrim, for example, including the ones for Namira (luring an Aedra priest into a lair of cannibals, sacrificing him and participating in the following feast) and Boethiah (sacrificing your companion at Boethiah's shrine).

Yup, you can do all those things which are seen as reprehensible, but it results in the death of the NPC. Which is part of the reason why a couple of us here are suggesting your companion should no longer be available to you after.

Also, take someone like Sharp. I think he would definitely want to leave if you did that to him. Probably Isobel as well.

The Companions are already dead by the point we would be able to use corpse abilities on them. Anything we could do to these Companions is undone when they revive, because there is no lasting effect from their death.

In other words, Companions should have no issue with what corpse abilities we use on them, because they're dead — and we're expected to be able to do those same abilities on them when they die again. We can use one corpse ability on a slain player each time they die; and when they die again, we get to use another corpse ability on them.

BretonMage · 12:41PM

Erickson9610 wrote: »

In other words, Companions should have no issue with what corpse abilities we use on them, because they're dead — and we're expected to be able to do those same abilities on them when they die again. We can use one corpse ability on a slain player each time they die; and when they die again, we get to use another corpse ability on them.

I'd find it strange to treat a friend (as these companions are supposed to be) as literal cattle. I guess where I differ from you is that I see them as just unconscious when downed, not killed (despite the soul gem revival, which I see as a mechanic). So yeah, your feeding on an unconscious and not dead companion would be problematic, while if they're actually dead, then it's less bad but still on the limit of ick. IMO, of course, you as werewolf would probably see it differently.

old_scopie1945 · 12:56PM

Never happen in my case, and if you see it happen, may you cast down a righteous spear from on high to deliver immediate retribution on the perpetrator.

alternatelder · 2:51PM

Probably one of the funniest request posts I've ever seen here.

Erickson9610 · 3:21PM

BretonMage wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

In other words, Companions should have no issue with what corpse abilities we use on them, because they're dead — and we're expected to be able to do those same abilities on them when they die again. We can use one corpse ability on a slain player each time they die; and when they die again, we get to use another corpse ability on them.

I'd find it strange to treat a friend (as these companions are supposed to be) as literal cattle. I guess where I differ from you is that I see them as just unconscious when downed, not killed (despite the soul gem revival, which I see as a mechanic). So yeah, your feeding on an unconscious and not dead companion would be problematic, while if they're actually dead, then it's less bad but still on the limit of ick. IMO, of course, you as werewolf would probably see it differently.

The group member list on the top left of the HUD lists a downed Companion as "dead".

Artim_X · 4:28PM

I too would like to be able to "devour" our companions, but for different, more nuanced reasons hehe 😜

Gabriel_H · 4:38PM

Oddly, Zerith's skill Perigean Armor generates a corpse - a Templar's Repentance works on this corpse.

Syldras · 5:18PM

BretonMage wrote: »

Yup, you can do all those things which are seen as reprehensible, but it results in the death of the NPC. Which is part of the reason why a couple of us here are suggesting your companion should no longer be available to you after.
Also, take someone like Sharp. I think he would definitely want to leave if you did that to him. Probably Isobel as well.

I'm not against it having negative affects in terms of disposition - like a huge disposition drop. That would be realistic.

But I'm all for giving players the option to play any character they like, no matter if it's a morally good knight or an evil cultist. This freedom has been a thing in all TES games. I wish we would see that more in ESO, also in quest choices. Greymoor, years ago, would have been a great opportunity to let us choose sides. The current Worm Cult story would have been another one. Unfortunately, what we got was rather unflexible.

metheglyn · 6:32PM

Syldras wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Yup, you can do all those things which are seen as reprehensible, but it results in the death of the NPC. Which is part of the reason why a couple of us here are suggesting your companion should no longer be available to you after.
Also, take someone like Sharp. I think he would definitely want to leave if you did that to him. Probably Isobel as well.

I'm not against it having negative affects in terms of disposition - like a huge disposition drop. That would be realistic.

But I'm all for giving players the option to play any character they like, no matter if it's a morally good knight or an evil cultist. This freedom has been a thing in all TES games. I wish we would see that more in ESO, also in quest choices. Greymoor, years ago, would have been a great opportunity to let us choose sides. The current Worm Cult story would have been another one. Unfortunately, what we got was rather unflexible.

Part of the sticking point for me in letting players choose to be full evil is accurately representing the consequences of it in game, particularly in an MMO. I've never played a vampire, but from what I understand if your character is one, there is a point where merchant npcs won't interact with you--a pretty realistic consequence based on how the populace in general views these matters. I don't know the details of how that works, but it is the kind of game mechanic I'm in favor of, adding to the realism of the world.

However, I've seen complaints on the forums often enough about people not wanting these kinds of consequences--using certain necromancer skills in towns being one of them. If people want to play evil, or morally grey, or purely mercenary, there should be consequences. There could even be consequences for playing the fully upstanding moral hero, because it stands to reason there are people in Tamriel who might not want to get involved with such a person, either. But I think all of that is more detail than we'd ever see, for various reasons. Even if you do get fully negative rapport with your companions, they never outright leave you, which I think is a pity, but I understand why it works that way.