Lekjih wrote: »

My biggest current issue with the writing is that every character has amnesia about who I am and what I know. My character has conflicting recall about what I've done. Sometimes you can't continue a quest unless you ask a stupid question that was already answered in the same conversation.

Lekjih wrote: »

How Ithelia was handled absolutely rankled. I was forced to take the side of a rampant misogynistic narcissist in Hermaeous Mora (the misogyny wasn't worded as such, but the masculine daedra saying the feminine daedra was hysterical and unpredictable...).

Lekjih wrote: »

Zerith-var's story, by contrast, was excellent. The one flaw, I don't like that a lot of Khajiit are forgetting to refer to themselves as "this one", given that they still do it in Skyrim.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

So where does one find one of these fabled good assistants?

Not among mercenaries, that's for sure.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I really do think the ticket cap could do with being raised. I understand why there is a cap, sort of (one of those MMO gates) but twelve is just so low.

I think 20 would be fine, so you could actually skip an event sometimes (because realistically, not everyone has time to play every day throughout the year) and still buy the new collectible parts introduced during it. Often it's just 1, and then the 12 tickets might be sufficient, but some events introduce 2 new parts, then it gets a bit annoying to catch up, especially if it's near the end of a quarter and the parts disappear again until the December event. I know of course that things will never get too convenient, since they want event participation, and tickets are also sold through the store.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

There's always the chance it comes up later in some way.

There's also a chance a lore bit might just be forgotten and will never come up again. I really hope we'll learn more about this at some point, though. It's always a pity if a new concept or world lore gets introduced, but then never picked up again.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, it's definitely made me wonder and speculate a lot about part two. I'm hoping for at least a moderately satisfying conclusion. I know all my questions won't be answered, and I know I may not like some of the answers I get. But if the motivations make sense for the characters involved, that would be the best.

The worst outcome for me personally would be if the end of the story would be more or less void of actual background lore. Basically just an "action" focused story: Huge sinister ritual, Vanny is intended to be sacrificed because "Worm Cult = evil", we of course stop the ritual in the last second, Mannimarco dies once more, story's over; and we learned nothing about Wormblood, nothing new about Mannimarco, nothing about why there were daedra in the Worm Cult, not much about the new locations, no background info on the Wall despite the striking similitary to Dunmeri ghost fences,... Yeah, that would be boring for me personally, because the lore is the reason I'm here. Of course I enjoy a good, entertaining story, but I really like TES lore, so I want to explore it and learn about this world.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I really am worried for the Great Mage. They kidnapped him for a reason, and clearly didn't intend to hand him over for the Gift of Death (even if we had been sincere on our end of that bargain). They want him for something, and I don't like where this is heading.

It's clear that, if they just wanted to remove him, they would have already killed him. The big question is: For what exactly do they keep him? I mean, if it had been Mannimarco who had kidnapped him, and we'd be lore accurate, I'd be less worried for his life, to be honest (he would keep him prisoner, but I don't think he'd want to kill him). But if we assume Wormblood is not Soul Shriven Mannimarco: Did he know that Mannimarco has a personal interest in Vanny? If not, the reason for the kidnapping can only be some kind of ritual, probably.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Hmm, well, maybe it's just the angle of the screenshot, but the dagger looks to be more over his shoulder than his heart. If he even has a heart.

I'd assumed the rhombus shaped thing on his armor is on the middle of his chest, basically above the sternum. The dagger seems to point directly next to it, on the left side. No matter if he's a mortal or a daedra, his heart should be there (unless he's suffering from situs inversus, but Razum-dar can't know that ).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It really doesn't make sense, and I do wonder why they did that. That could simply be necessary for the plot. We needed to see the sarcophagus; we couldn't get to the east side of the island; therefore sarcophagus gets brought to the west.

It would be interesting to learn how the first outline of the story looked like, since we have all those hints that the resurrection might have been supposed to take place there, originally.

Right now it looks to me like they might have just decided at some point that it would be awesome to put the Colored Rooms into the story and bring Darien back, to they moved the resurrection scene there and gave us that dramatic ending - but it made all those transports of the sarcophagus really implausible.

Now, since we couldn't go to East Solstice but had to see the sarcophagus somewhere, I'd have rather prefered some scene where we find it on a ship somewhere at the coast (Maybe at the shore outside the mine - isn't there even a Worm Cult camp anyway?) - basically witnessing the transport to Solstice, from where ever it had been before. That would have made more sense than it being in East Solstice before and then being brought to West Solstice for absolutely no reason.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, there's keeping oneself in hand in the normal day to day of necromancer life, and then there's having all one's plans scuttled and one's entire self usurped. I would think the latter would be cause for anger, no matter how self-controlled one is. And while we might think what happened was justified and that he brought it on himself, would he? He didn't seem any too pleased or calm about it when he realized what was about to happen.

He wanted to bring Mannimarco back. He brought him back. From my point of view, that was a success

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

They can do both, though. Why can't we learn more about Wormblood and get more interesting characterization of Mannimarco? I'm not saying I want Wormblood to be the main character or anything, but I don't see why he was so quickly tossed aside.

Of course I'd prefer to see more lore on both. But if they focus on Wormblood as a more morally grey character, there's the risk it will get a really black/white story and Mannimarco would probably end up being just "that evil guy", and that's it. I somehow just can't see them giving us a lot of lore on both of them. Think of the scope of the story - it probably won't be longer than Part 1, and there's so much that would need explanation and characterization. They'll have to limit themselves. So, if I had to choose, I'd rather see more nuance about Mannimarco, since he's a character important for TES lore overall.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, I agree. It has never made sense to me that the Worm Cult is back. Finding out they're working for Molag Bal again is just as unbelievable.

I don't mind the return of the Worm Cult that much. Mannimarco having a plan B doesn't seem that unreasonable. I'd also have liked some more personal "Mannimarco's corpse was brought to his Corelanya family after his death and some relative gets stupid ideas" story. But still being allied with Molag Bal? After the ending of the base game main quest, it doesn't make sense.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It's possible...maybe just slightly possible...that Mannimarco did somehow talk Molag Bal around on the subject of the Worm Cult and having him as leader of it again. I don't think that would be a good story, or even a likely one, but Mannimarco is supposed to be that accomplished smooth talker, so...maybe?

It feels unrealistic to me. Mannimarco might have rhetorical talent, but fooling Molag Bal once more after what happened?! He can't be that dumb. It would even be more believable if he just found it funny to see Mannimarco failing.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It's always portals. Or magical horses. Maybe now and then an enchanted boat.

Unless the story wants us to walk, or be stopped by some kind of barrier or puzzle, then for some reason portals aren't possible.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Always so vague with the answers! Are you afraid I'll start hiring a bunch of assistants and leave you without as many candidates? I know you run through assistants pretty quickly, and honestly I don't think it's fair if you're hiring up all the good ones just to place them in mortal peril.

How's that not fair? At least the good ones have a chance to survive. Now if I would hire 30 idiots instead and they'd all die during their first assignment - that would be cruel! But I'm not a cruel person

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

That would be a lackluster ending. However, something that makes me a little more optimistic is the line about "will change Tamriel forever" that they're using to hype up the Wall event. Kevin said it's a reference to the story and the impact it will have, so to my mind the ending can't be a simple "and we defeated the bad guys and everything's back to normal." If something is going to change the world, there's got to be lore for it, right? (Is there a hopeful-face emoji? If so, insert here!)

I mean, in a way, the Wall event will change the world: The Wall will be gone, both in story/lore as well as the physical object That's not a more spectacular change than any character being added to the game or dying, but it's a change.

Maybe it's indeed the fact that the Wall will be gone after that for everyone - regardless whether they've ever started the Solstice story, right? That's the first time something bigger just disappears from the landscape forever (smaller changes take place all the time - an entrance for a new trial or dungeon getting added, some rocks disappearing because a purchasable house gets placed somewhere, etc) - which is actually a pity since I like that thing - , and will probably be replaced by something else for players who purchase ESO (or Solstice) sometime in the future.

Now when it comes to other changes... How big can they be? We have to keep in mind that it can't be something that interferes with other stories and zones. Maybe it will just be some metaphysical lore, if at all, that becomes a fact of the world then, without being noticeable when actually playing the game?

Syldras wrote: »

Makes me wonder now, by the way, what will happen if the Wall collapses. I mean, what's with all those souls? Do all dead resurrect? Maybe it will explain why all dead npcs tend to return But apart from that, what magical impact might that event have on the whole world? Don't tell me the Wall's explosion alters the laws of nature so much that suddenly, everyone can levitate or gains a new skill line

Syldras wrote: »

What also makes a difference, I think, is this: The statement was made about the Wall event, not the conclusion of the whole story. The Wall's fall might change something, but the rest of the story could still be the standard "stop the sinister ritual, defeat Mannimarco" stuff.

What statements do we have about the event so far, generally? I've just checked the official thread and just found this:
"Get ready for a once-in-history event that will change Tamriel forever."
"Be a part of history. Together."
"Just to clarify, the "change Tamriel forever" is more for the story we are telling with the Writhing Wall than game function. But also, this is the first time we are running an event like this. So kinda fits theme wise there as well."
"However, if you miss the event, we’ve written the Solstice zone main story in a way that it connects the Seasons of the Worm Cult Parts 1 and 2 story. There is an additional quest that is separate from the Writhing Wall event that will be available in the Solstice zone once the event goes live. This quest will continue to be available even after the Writing Wall event ends, and it bridges the overall story."

Makes me wonder what that one quest is. I suspect it's related to the item people in that new event camp are talking about all the time - they just have it, there's no dialogue on how they got or created it. I bet the quest is about creating that thing. I can guess what it consists of, but we're probably still missing a few parts that we need to gather then.

Syldras wrote: »

I also noticed a cavern-like entrance in the mountain range that I'm sure not whether it's been there before. Its name could be translated to "Fissure Ruin" or something like that, and the entrance is not useable ("enter" is grayed out and nothing happens). Is that new or is that some exit from a dungeon that I can't remember? It's not blocked by anything and directly at ground level, though, which looks suspicious to me.



And there's also some weird bismuth-filled hole in Sunport, inaccessible since it's behind a fence, and you can only see it from the right angle. That thing has been there since Solstice released.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I know, and that's why I'm worried! There are worse fates than just death. If they kill him (which I also don't think was their plan) that would be bad enough (and not lore accurate according to other sources), but if they use him as a magicka battery that would be worse. I don't want the Great Mage tortured by endless rituals. I want him back to proclaim himself the Great Mage and be his usual pompous self.

From the stories we've seen so far, I'd say: If someone's a captive somehow, we'll free that person. It's always been like that. We already freed Vanny once, we freed the Ayleid king, we freed Fennorian - if someone's trapped somewhere, the great hero will come and save the day. The biggest risk is Vanny dying through that procedure - or indeed a story how the Worm Cult intends to sacrifice him to harvest his energy and he gets killed for that. Although I'd find that very implausible considering all we know about him and Mannimarco (At worst he's become so insane and obsessive that he intends to merge Vanny's soul with his own - but I'm also not sure about that; I'm wondering now, by the way, whether the 100 ft Vanny statue that Mannimarco builds some time later, according to lore, might mark his resting place? The timeline is rather unclear and we don't even know whether he's already dead during Daggerfall; all we know is that at the time of Oblivion, he is - or he's supposed to be, at least; all we know is that at that point, Mannimarco had him and he never was seen by anyone ever again after that - unless he suddenly resurfaces in TES6 ).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

As to what Wormblood might have known (or guessed) about the prior relationship between Mannimarco and Vanny, it's possible that Mannimarco left instructions referring to the Great Mage in a general way, but it's unlikely he would have let anyone know any details. It's unclear how much of Wormblood's plan was set in motion by Mannimarco and how much was Wormblood adapting to circumstances. Did Mannimarco's back-up plans include capturing the Great Mage, or did Wormblood come up with that on his own?

They all keep private diaries, you know? I'd really find it interesting to read Mannimarco's. At least if it shows a more private side and differences to his public persona. Yes, the wish for nuance, once more.

But yes, I also don't think Mannimarco would openly talk about his past (and neither would Vanny). Not that there would even be any need to explain himself to his followers. If the cult leader says "Catch the Great Mage and keep him prisoner until I'm back", they'll do it. Or if Vanny's capture was initiated by Wormblood on his own terms, whatever his plans were - I don't think they matter much anymore now that he's gone and Mannimarco's back in charge.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

There's apparently no limits to what Razum-dar can know! I still think, in the screenshots, the dagger is more shoulder-adjacent than heart-adjacent, but we'll go with dagger over heart scenario. From the way Wormblood is squirming around, he seems pretty firmly pinned, so perhaps he couldn't move enough to effect any kind of escape.

It's funny that a cat sitting on him would stop him, considering he's such a powerful mage Freshly resurrected or not.

Syldras wrote: »

Still wondering, of course, who he might be, considering they also emphasized in the story that he'd be much more powerful than anyone else, and that the Worm Cult had more power than ever now with the Wall and their Soul Reapers and what not. I mean: Where does that suddenly come from? A cult almost defeated makes such a glorious return? They must be funded by Molag Bal in person or something like that. And some random nephew or Mannimarco fanboy being that powerful also seems nonsensical, so I'm still wondering: Some kind of "hero"? Daedric champion (basically something like Darien, but from the baddie side)? Daedra? Wormblood can't be some average rando. And I doubt he's a mortal, too.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

But what if your point of view was Wormblood's point of view? Would you be so sanguine about it then?

I personally can accept defeat without problems. If I've messed up, I accept the outcome. That includes dying (yes, yes, I know, a much too severe anecdote for this forum - but I had a horrible accident years ago where I was certain that it was over for me, and I was completely calm and fine with it; I was more appalled when noticing I survived). The question isn't though how I'd react, but how Wormblood would - and to imagine that, we just don't know enough about him.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Mannimarco having a Plan B makes just enough sense, but how detailed was it?

I think there was a lorebook/letter where some cultist (or was it Wormblood?) wrote that "Lord Mannimarco's old notes" led them to Solstice or something? Now, of course, Mannimarco could just have generally found out about the Gift of Death through some old tomes and researched it because he thought it might come handy some day (maybe not even knowing for sure what it does exactly), and Wormblood later found those notes by chance; or it was indeed already part of his plan B in case of his death? We don't know.

I know I'll have to search for that lorebook once more to check what it said

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I didn't think it was realistic, either, but it's the one way I could see it possibly working. Although maybe this is the start of us finding out that Molag Bal is really quite stupid.

Idiot cultists for an idiot Daedric Prince. Wonderful.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Yeah, portal magic isn't very well defined; by which I mean, it works great until it doesn't, and it usually doesn't for plot reasons. Then we're given explanations like, "the island is riddled with magic that makes portals unstable!" (Or whatever it was Farinor told us.)

Well, we know they arrived with the Worm Cult Fleet because of that! Or with these cars:



I honestly do like the style. Also the tent style. Although it's funny they have their crest on them so everyone immediately knows they're evil necromancers



And they must have lots of artisans to make those for them. I've been wondering about the style, by the way. Are they supposed to look like rolling coffins? Or maybe some kind of treasure, war or funerary carriages? It also looks a bit Dunmeri to me, from the general shape and design (but that also goes for the Wall ). What do they even transport in those? Cultists? Corpses? Can't be a special funeral carriage for the sarcophagus since they've got at least two of those.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Cruelty is in the eye of the beholder. I'll ask your remaining living assistants and see what they say.

Ask the Bosmer after his return; he'll agree with me.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I'm not expecting some big change to the landscape other than the wall not being there. I also don't think there will be a big change to other stories or zones. I'm expecting some lore, perhaps relating to the metaphysics of souls and the realms of oblivion. I'm aware it can't contradict what lore is in the earlier games, which take place later.

I also rather expect background lore. If it's truly "world changing", it must be something remarkable - maybe some story that explains some fact we saw in one of the singleplayer TES games set later in the timeline? Some kind of origin story, basically? Is there something some collapsing wall of souls could explain?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

For people who play the zone after the wall event, I wonder if the wall will be in place for them until they do that bridge quest, and then the wall comes down. So the eastern half will still be locked until they do the requisite quest.

The whole situation sounds rather confusing to me, to be honest. I mean, regardless whether a person has already finished Solstice Part 1 or not, they can participate in the Wall event. Also directly on Solstice, not only on Stirk or wherever. If the destruction of the Wall is caused by using the Light of Meridia (amplified through some device for which we probably need to gather parts in the first event quest - that's my theory, at least), that would already cause a lore contradiction, because that person would have not come across that Light yet, if they didn't finish Part 1.

And then, the finale of the Wall event will be the deactivation of the Wall - I guess it will be a visual effect? But how would that function for someone who witnesses it but hasn't played Part 1 of the story? They'd see the Wall collapse but still couldn't go through? Or maybe they could, but then the whole dialogues of Part 1 wouldn't make sense anymore. Unless they remove everything that refers to the Wall (I'm wondering now whether that might happen. Were all mentionings of the Wall in seperate dialogue parts unrelated to the rest of the dialogues?). Or wait, there are also several side quests referring to the Wall, so they can't just act like it never existed.

There really must be something that keeps people who haven't finished Part 1 yet from wandering to East Solstice even if the Wall is gone. But what? Or maybe we imagine the whole situation differently than planned, and the "collapse" of the Wall won't just deactivate the glowy parts but the whole mountain range will collapse somehow (didn't happen with the Ghostfence, but whatever), leading to the passages being blocked by rubble? Then there might be an extra quest for finding a way through - of course only available if you've finished Part 1 of the story. For some reason.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I don't remember that particular one, so it could be a new one for the event. I would be surprised if you had overlooked it in your initial wanderings!

Especially since I usually try to climb everything. Yesterday I was facade climbing in Sunport. No, seriously: It's a super weird town, so many balconies everywhere, but almost none of them have a door, not even a locked/fake one! They're just there and serve no purpose.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It's true that we usually free the captives, but what if we don't this time? What if they are doing something different? I would say Mannimarco wouldn't kill the Great Mage, or allow him to be killed, but that doesn't mean the Great Mage doesn't get killed.

Would Mannimarco willingly risk Vanny's life?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

You see, that is why the return of the Worm Cult makes very little sense to me. We dealt them such a resounding defeat, how did they claw their way back? Why would Molag Bal care about their success now, since the person who was leading them betrayed him? Enter Wormblood, I guess, but like you said: how did he get so powerful? Well, likely we'll never know, so we can just make up what we want and go with that. If Meridia can take a mortal and make them a champion, so can Molag Bal (and he probably would, because those two have a habit of copying one another, only with a twist). So, there: that's Wormblood, Molag Bal's personal champion. And now that Mannimarco has defeated/subsumed/whatever Wormblood, Molag Bal can be doubly angry and upset with Mannimarco. (As to why Molag Bal's champion would be trying to bring back Mannimarco...eh, don't worry about it. Just accept it and go with it. )

I was just checking the list of Solstice lorebooks on UESP and found this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Our_Darkbinder_Allies
"While cooperating with the Darkbinders is not easy, they can be counted on to dutifully carry out Molag Bal's commands. Since the Order of the Black Worm plays a crucial part in the plans of the God of Schemes, the Darkbinders are committed to our cause. We can rely on them until our great work is completed."

So this reads like the reverse Planemeld was a plan by Molag Bal and he's using the Worm Cult for that. How plausible is this? Would he even care that much for another Planemeld? Did he release Mannimarco so he can have another try? Or was Mannimarco's freedom basically supposed to be the reward for a successful Reverse Planemeld (I still can't see why he would ever trust him again)? If not, how would it work that Wormblood tried to bring Mannimarco back, while he's supposed to be worshipping and working for Molag Bal? Wormblood = just another betrayer? I don't get it.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

They are rather ornate for the Worm Cult, aren't they?

Astoundingly so. I actually like them. Could need one, drawn by four black Vvardvarks

Syldras wrote: »

I found something on bismuth, by the way. Unfortunately, there's only a part 3, and the other parts either don't exist or aren't on UESP yet:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bismuth_Experiment_3

I also read this note once more and wondered how many "Passages Beneath" there might be:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Partially_Burned_Missive

Where was this from?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Cultist_Orders

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

That's why I won't ask him. He'll agree with anything you say, poor fellow!

He's happy.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, I don't know. It's been so very long since I played any of the single player TES games. But they don't contain the entirety of the world's lore, so it's possible we learn something truly new about Tamriel, and as long as it doesn't contradict anything that is already established lore, it should be fine.

The Wall's explosion rips time and space and Ithelia will return and take us to a different dimension There, we meet our evil twin and drink tea with the Ascendant Lord's friendly twin. Now, that would indeed be world-changing.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Anyway, I was thinking the wall would end up being like a phased area of the zone. Until you meet X requirement (the bridge quest, in this case) the wall remains up and unpassable, and the eastern side inaccessible. Once you do that quest, the wall comes down and you're free to go to the eastern half. That's just my guess. They said they had taken the presence of the wall into consideration for people who go through the content after the event, so we'll just have to see how that plays out.

But then, people who haven't finished the story yet would not really see the Wall fall during the event. Wouldn't that look disappointing especially since they announced it as a kind of spectacle (without mentioning finishing Part 1 first as a requirement anywhere)? Although, how many people will be present in game in that very moment anyway?

Syldras wrote: »

But still, I'm really wondering now whether that blue part of the Wall might not just fade away. The "Passages Beneath" I already mentioned are spoken of in several letters. I also re-read this one...
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Tarnur_Mine_Report
"In addition to access to the Passages Beneath, Tarnur Mine can serve as a valuable base in western Solstice until we're ready to take total control of Sunport."
...which shows that "Passages Beneath" is not just some other name they used for the Tarnur Mine so we'd not know immediately what cavern they might mean, but a seperate thing - it reads like a whole tunnel system. Who knows, maybe the location I posted a screenshot of earlier is the entrance to that. So maybe the mountains will indeed collapse and to get on the other side, we'll need to fight our way through the tunnels after the collapse anyway?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

You're not supposed to pay any attention to the man behind the curtain! It's all for show, the illusion of a bustling city!

Balconies should have at least fake doors

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

To be honest, I don't know what he's capable of when it comes to the Great Mage. But even if he wouldn't willingly risk Vanny's life, that doesn't mean Vanny's life might not somehow be risked. I know Mannimarco thinks he's in full control of the cult and all that, but it is possible that something could happen he didn't intend and didn't want.

If that unexpected event doesn't kill Vanny, I'd actually prefer that over some very clear, formulaic story.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I don't get it, either. I could see Molag Bal trying for another planemeld. I could see him using idiot cultists to do it. I cannot see him letting Mannimarco in on it or letting him roam around again. So Wormblood trying to bring back Mannimarco does seem like a betrayal. It's like a lite version of Mannimarco performing a lite betrayal of Molag Bal.

It would totally be the time for a schism between Mannimarco and Molag Bal now.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Ah, so the Worm Cult must've been mining bismuth for its soul-containing properties.

And not only mining most probably. The whole island seems to be filled with that stuff, after all. We learnt that Soul Reapers send souls to a specified location. If they'd send them into the bismuth that the whole island seems to be filled with, this might power everything of interest there - the Wall, Mor Naril, and what ever else they might have there.

Although that, of course, would make the Wall a very different thing than the Dunmer ghost fences, because those don't need any storage material for the ancestors' souls (most likely since ancestral ghosts don't need to really be trapped at a location because they protect their people willingly).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I don't remember where that note was from. Did it have anything to do with the prologue? Maybe something about moving soul reapers around?

That's possible. For a moment I had been wondering whether there might be any hint on where they got the sarcophagus from - I mean, from which place they transported it to Solstice. They must have stored it somewhere else before, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to wait for its delivery which is mentioned in a note somewhere.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Depending on the tea, that could be fun.

The tea will be made with sunflowers and lots of sand. It's not like they have much else on that island.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

That's a good question: will the wall just blink out of existence when the server meets the goal, or will there be a specific time it comes down with accompanying fanfare and effects? As to the other point: if the wall coming down is part of the progression of the story, why should people see it gone before they've completed the story? Wouldn't that be odd? (I do wonder how many people might be on Solstice, participating in the event, without having done the main quest.) You know, they could make use of a cut-scene in this case, so people could see the wall coming down via speaking to an npc after the server meets the goal and the quest is done.

Well, I do expect some kind of visual effect, the blue gleam just disappearing wouldn't be very spectacular, would it?

It's still all a bit odd. But you're right, the event leading to some end quest being triggered, if you've finished part 1 before (Although it would probably be better if they announced that early enough before the event so it won't lead to frustration among some players who haven't progressed far enough until then?), makes most sense, since then, you would clearly see the destruction of the wall no matter when you log in.

I'm wondering now whether there will be crafting stations or locations for surveys and treasure maps on the other side of the island? Might also be a bit frustrating then if people get them but don't have access to that side yet. Then again, you have the same problem for the North of Coldharbor (when it comes to antiquities and treasure maps).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Not if they're those strange decorative balconies some buildings have, where they're too small for anyone to stand on and, at most, you can fit a potted plant on them. Then all you need is a window big enough to reach through and water the plant.

French balconies. They usually also have some kind of door, though. You can't just drop your plants through a window, you know

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Yes, that could be an interesting path for the story to take.

Maybe something horrible could be awakened in Mor Naril. A huge argonian stone thing. No, I know, it's probably not Argonian in origin. Maybe a daedric doomsday machine? But why would anyone even build something like that?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

More of one, you mean? Last I checked, they weren't exactly on good terms. The Schism 2: this time it's personal!

Anything really that cuts all ties between the Worm Cult and Molag Bal, which would also fit the situation we see later in Daggerfall.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

If the Worm Cult was stuffing souls into all the bismuth in the island, that could lead to some interesting developments.

Do souls float? Maybe the island could start to float, too! That would be unexpected. No random visits by unknown cultists anymore either, then. At least not by boat.

Syldras wrote: »

Did we learn anything in detail about how or why the island is thought of as being cursed? Maybe it's weird energies related to all the bismuth or Mor Naril?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I did think of the sarcophagus first when reading that, but then I thought: why Grahtwood?

The sarcophagus must have been kept somewhere before its transport to Solstice. I guess I'd just like to have a bit of into on what happened with Mannimarco and the cult between the base game ending and the current story.

Syldras wrote: »

I'm really curious how the East will look like. Well, not in terms of landscape - I guess that will just be mostly like Coldharbor. But what has been built there? How do people live? They said the Worm Cult had already been there for a while before the Wall appeared? Who knows how long they might have hidden if there had been a dense jungle or so.

You know what would be fun? A necromancer-friendly parallel society Basically Worm Cult vacation paradise where every necromancer can do whatever necromancers enjoy doing, without any negative judgement. Maybe some sinister Argonian tribes and some Corelanya revivalists would also appreciate that.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Wait, what island? I thought we were going to a different dimension. You mean we'll still be stuck on Solstice? No, no, I don't want that. If I'm going to a different dimension, it needs to be different...like, a lot.

Okay, how about that other dimension from the Ithelia story then... that one where no magic exists? Then all our skills will be gone and we could become farmers, or artisans or, in case of unnaturally old wizards, just die of old age or something.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are two more crafting stations on the east side, because isn't there only one on the west, and there's usually three total? Along with another public dungeon, and three delves, and three world bosses, and all the associated treasure maps and surveys.

I've always wondered why the numbers are kept the same in every zone. In the end, a zone or map is just a plot of land, and all of them could consist of really different things.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Couldn't you? If the window was large enough?

Then, it's basically a door

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I fully expect something horrible to be found in Mor Naril. As to why anyone would build a Daedric doomsday machine, wasn't that what the Mortuum Vivicus was? Or do you mean why would any non-daedric entity build something like that? Well, as we've seen with the Dagon cultists, some people just want to destroy the world.

The Mortuum Vivicus was a gift by Molag Bal to eradicate a specific rival city of Meridia worshippers. So, in a way, it served a purpose; also, it was a gift Now I just hope we won't just get a new Mortuum Vivicus in the current story.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Probably this most recent failure of the Coldharbourization of Nirn will do it. Assuming we totally stop it from progressing past eastern Solstice. I would think, after two failed planemelds, even Molag Bal would want to end that relationship.

I'm quite sure we'll stop it. What I'm more curious about now is whether the effect on East Solstice might be reversed as we progress the questline?

What's also strange is that you don't see any darkening of the sky above or behind the Wall right now, although normally, you'd be able to see that from the Western side, I guess?

And yes, I do hope it's over for the Mannimarco Molag Bal alliance after this story, so Mannimarco can finally pursue some non Molag Bal related plans with his cult. That might become more interesting, especially since I wouldn't enjoy seeing a third Planemeld in another decade. If he "survives", and we know that he will, in one way or another, since he returns in Daggerfall and Oblivion, they could still make another story about him some day - preferably just not the same one another time.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Of course souls float! We talk to floating souls/spirits all the time.

But is their buoyancy high enough to pull the island with them while floating?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I don't think we did learn outright. I think we drew certain conclusions from reading lore books about Mor Naril, though.

I think there was also one or even several lorebooks that were more about myths or seafarers stories about the island that also mentioned those rumours that it was cursed. Dense fog I think I remember. But what else? I guess I have to check those once more, later today. Because I'm wondering whether any of those reports fits anything that could have to do with the bismuth or Mor Naril or any other necromantic or daedric stuff doing on there.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, they took the body from Sancre Tor, which is in the Colovian Mountains of Cyrodiil. The sarcophagus may or may not have been available at that time, but let's say it was. Where would it have most logically been? So they stuff the body in it, and then want to keep it safe. Where would have been the best place for that? Would you leave a dead body in a forest mostly inhabited by Bosmer? Really?

Maybe a body filled with huge amounts of necromantic energy is unfit for consumption; then, it would be Bosmer-safe.

Syldras wrote: »

I'm wondering though whether the Worm Cult base in Scourg Barrow might already exist at this point? Then that might also have been a good place to keep him there for a while. Also, Craglorn isn't that far away from Sancre Tor, at least compared to other places in Tamriel (then again, they might have used portal magic anyway).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

For all we know, the Stone Nest are that necromancer-friendly society!

Perfect! The Worm Cult might just stay there and everyone's happy?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I'm curious about the eastern side, too. How long were the Worm Cult there before the wall went up? Did they build anything there? What structures were there before? In what state of ruin/decay/abandonment (if any)? If the Xanmeer are still inhabited by Argonians, how different will they look from the Xanmeer in other parts of the game? And so forth.

I really hope for something unique, not only in terms of architecture, but also culturally.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Perfect! Peace at long last.

Not sure about that; even without magic and daedra, the people of Tamriel would probably get into all kinds of conflicts fast.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I think it might have been due to efficiency and time constraints. It's probably easier and faster to develop a new zone if you have a basic outline for what's needed and know in advance where you'll need to allocate resources. That's of course only my guess. I think part of the intention of the new season format is to allow for different things to be created, so it's not all the same thing over and over again. So, I guess we'll see when we learn what the next season is, because as of now, this season looks just like any previous chapter when it comes to zone activity design.

One complaint I saw at times over the years here at this forum was that the zones were too formulaic - always the same number of world bosses, delves, public dungeons, and 1 type of specific world event. I think to change this, it wouldn't have been necessary to give up the zone concept. They could have just decided to be more open when it comes to designing the zones. But yes, let's wait and see what we'll get next year.

Which reminds me, there was one reply I saw in the Reddit AMA about how they develop the story idea for a zone. It basically was that they have some basic story ideas ready, an increasing list over the years even, and then just see to which zone or Tamrielic culture they might fit for that story idea. Or they might make up a new place entirely, like we saw this year, I guess. So the idea is there first, and then they look where they might place that on the map.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Lol...point ceded.

Today's early evening activity was climbing Li-Xal Pass without a grapple bow, by the way I mean, I would have prefered some climbing aid, but unfortunately, you lose it after the quest ends, so the Pass becomes more or less inaccessible after that point (If you try, you can still get up, but it's much more complicated of course - and there's a high risk of getting stuck between all that rubble there!). It's a pity because it's actually a nice place and interesting to explore. Unless absolutely necessary for story reasons, I prefer places to remain explorable outside of quests!

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

A gift, huh? Like the kind of gifts you give to Gothren?

A gift just as useful and dangerous. Basically like a poisoned moustache comb. Just bigger and daedric.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

So was the Mortuum Vivicus a one-use only kind of thing? I thought it was a weapon of terrible power that could be used over and over again.

It was a permanent weapon. Some vortex of daedric energy or something like that. Magical, immaterial. The purpose why Molag Bal created it was that he intended to gift it to some Ayleid city that worshipped him, so they could use it against some Meridia worshipping enemy Ayleid city. It was to kill everyone there and send their souls directly to him to Coldharbor. It was not one-use, so they (or everyone else who got their hands on it) probably could have used it against other enemies after that as well. Well, not anymore, since we destroyed it at the end of the base game Fighters Guild quest.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

If we do get a new Mortuum Vivicus, I hope it has a different name. Sees-All-Colors was overly fond of saying the name, repeating it often enough that it made my character a little crazy. Which, now that I think of it, was probably her plan all along, being as she was a Meridia acolyte, and Meridia is cruel like that, too.

Since I suspect that the current story isn't only supposed to be a sequel to the base game main quest, but also to the original guild quests (or at least the Fighters Guild questline), I highly suspect that we will see something roughly similar again. Probably at Mor Naril. I also hope for a less fake-Latin name

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Maybe the reverse planemeld hasn't progressed far enough yet to darken the sky. Or maybe it's a technical limitation. I hadn't considered that before, but realistically you should be able to see dark skies from far away, even past mountain ranges.

Once we're there, I fully expect the other half of the island to look like Coldharbor, to be honest. If the sky looked normal, especially if it's sunny, that would seem... not very threathening.

Which again leads me to the theory that we might not just simply walk through the mountain passages when the Wall collapses, but that it will rather collapse entirely and block the passes with rubble. So we'd need to go through some tunnels and - surprise! - once we're exiting them on the other side, we get loaded on a new extra map for East Solstice, and then the sky might be the usual dark Coldharbor sky there.

Since indeed there are technical limitations, I think. It's only one sky for a whole map. No matter where you are, it looks the same everywhere. So there must be loading screens between West and East Solstice to have a different looking sky on both sides.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I guess that depends on how many souls they're stuffing into the bismuth. Put enough of them in there, and we can pull up that island! Because islands are just discs floating on the ocean, right? Their land doesn't go all the way down to the ocean floor or anything.

Of course islands aren't just floating planes of rock, not even in ESO The souls' propulsion would need to be strong enough to rip the island from the bottom of the sea. How many souls would one need for that? Now that would be an interesting experiment. I'd need to propose that to the Council.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Dense fog and perpetually rough seas were what I mostly recall. Sailor myths can't really be relied on, though. Those folks imagine all sorts of wacky things when they've been at sea long enough. Then again, in a world with magic, anything goes.

Didn't have time for a more thorough search yet, but this is the one I had mainly been thinking of:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Cursed_Island
Now that stuff about the monster that ate all the pirates might just be a myth. But this is an interesting bit still:
"A place full of cursed temples, strange structures, and Daedric edifices, surrounded by rough and stormy seas."
So what might we see on the East? Stone Nest cities, certainly. But lots of Daedric buildings, too? More than just Mor Naril? Or maybe it's all... less accurate to what we'll actually see in game. I mean, we don't ever see any of those horrible storms surrounding the island, either.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Would the Bosmer know that just by looking at the body? Or would they need a nibble or two to figure it out? Is Mannimarco's body missing any toes? I think you really do need to get your hands on that sarcophagus!

Maybe necromantic energy smells weird (Now imagine it would smell of something unexpected, that would be fun; something like strawberries or vanilla or so ).

Syldras wrote: »

I mean, it's certainly not very digestible, and if a Bosmer would try to eat a powerful necromancer, I'm sure they'd notice. Not sure how many bites that would take. It would certainly be another interesting, uhm, field of study. Luckily, I know many Bosmer who would surely be happy to assist.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

With their portal magic ability, it makes one wonder why they ever bother with ships in the first place. It would be interesting to find out where they had kept it all this time...er, however much time it's been.

Regardless of whether they portaled or carried Mannimarco's corpse to that place or not, it would be interesting if we ever found out whether there's already a Worm Cult base in Scourg Barrow, really. Maybe a location for another future story - maybe finally one where we can see Mannimarco transition from "evil daedra worshipper" to the fine questgiver gentleman we met in Daggerfall

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Is the Worm Cult capable of happiness? Or perhaps I should say contentment. I can't imagine them settling for half an island.

Evil wizards can be really happy, so why would necromancers be not? I'd honestly find an openly necromantic location/society an interesting thing to explore.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Agreed. The western half wasn't all that unique, considering it was meant to be such an isolated island. It's possible I expected too much from the initial descriptions of the island.

I'm really curious how much the Worm Cult might have built on the other side. It can't be just Coldharbor 2 (or specifically Haj Uxith, just in larger scope), right?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

That's interesting. I wonder how basic those ideas-in-waiting are. Is it as simple as "dwemer machine malfunctions" and then, when they decide where to place it, they fill in more details, or do they have bit more to go on than that? I know you can't answer that; I'm just musing about the process.

I can't remember the exact wording, but I think it sounded like it's just some basic outline. And it was more about a zone's main storyline, I think, not so much side quests.

I mean, we've already noticed that the zones seem to have some overall theme, or maybe several smaller ones (Summerset had great tragedies, High Isle had obtrusive flirting, and Solstice has family/heritage/traditions and Protect the environment). A different mood, too, which was already noticeable in the early chapters. I somehow have the feeling the earlier themes were more... how to put it? More unordinary. "Greater" somehow. From some people's perspective, maybe less down to earth, but I personally liked them more than what we got in later chapters.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Yes, I wish some places would remain accessible, too. There's been places where I wanted to have another look around, or where I thought I might have missed something, but couldn't get back in.

It's a pity, especially if within the story you're told the situation is urgent and you need to hurry, and therefore only run through. Of course one could decide just not to - but at least during my first playthrough, I play along, because I want to immerse in the situation.

Now, with Li-Xal Pass it's especially a pity because it's a beautifully designed location. It's not like they're rushing you through so you can't look around much because then you'd notice some flaws or so - no, there are no flaws, it's really a nice place and it would be fun to just climb around there with that grapple bow a bit more.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I actually do remember the Fighters Guild quest and how we were following in the footsteps of the Aylieds to destroy the thing. Delodiil vs. Abagarlas. Meridia vs. Molag Bal. Always and forever. What was your judgment of Sees-All-Colors at the end of that story? My main character didn't kill her, but did have her expelled from the guild. In his eyes, she was just another daedric-loving cultist sacrificing others in service to her prince.

I decided differently on different characters. My main didn't kill her, others were less lenient.

In any way I hope the current artifact or thing or whatever it is that we'll find won't be too similar to what we saw in the old Fighters Guild story. While the first story wasn't bad, I don't need a repetition of the same thing just with different names and places.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It's all going to come down to Mor Naril, isn't it? Well, this time the replacement Vivicus probably can't be undone by a prismatic core. I feel like Molag Bal would have learned from the last time and taken precautions. Then again, maybe not.

I don't think we'll encounter something new in Mor Naril. Isn't it supposed to be some ancient thing? So it might have been constructed even before the Mortuum Vivicus, with the same or even worse flaws

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

You know, I hadn't considered a separate map with loading screen for the eastern half. I was thinking we'd be able to walk from one side to the other freely, but you make a good point about the skybox. Well, the livestream preview is tomorrow, so perhaps that will answer the map question.

I'm really curious what we'll see. Especially if there will be a hub city (if not, some people might really be unhappy about it, especially if it's really a seperate zone) and if so, what kind of city? Because you'd expect the Worm Cult to have overrun everything. But who knows, maybe they missed some hidden Argonian village or people fleeing have built a new small settlement or camp somewhere.

I'm generally wondering how the quests there would look like. Rescueing people, probably. But I imagine the themes might be rather limited by the current situation? At least it's hard to imagine that people would care for, let's say, a bardic competition right now. It's probably more between "The Worm Cult kidnapped my brother" and "The Worm Cult kidnapped my guar".

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

That would be so many souls, though! Where are you going to find that many assistants?

Maybe it would be reasonable to just use all those souls of fighters dying in Cyrodiil. Then those might not be entirely wasted.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I think that particular pirate captain is spinning a fantastical tale to cover up how he marooned his crew on Solstice so he could keep all their ill-gotten gains for himself. And because he doesn't want them rescued to contradict his tale, he's trying to scare everyone away from the island. I've been to Solstice, you know. You can hang out on the beaches in perfect safety. Most of them, at least.

That's very much possible when it comes to the main point of the tale, but the description of the island itself might have some truth in it, maybe? Ah, I don't know. What we saw so far was neither remote nor scary, that's true.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Lol! "Do I smell strawberry shortcake?" "No, that's just Syldras, exuding necromantic aroma."

Now imagine how East Solstice must smell! Althrough strawberries and sulphur might not mix too well.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Now you just need to find a dead necromancer somewhere.

I don't think there's any shortage of them right now.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I wonder if we ever would see the beginnings of Mannimarco's transition from "all evil" to "enigmatic and maybe evil."

I hope so, as that would be an interesting story and would also make him a much more interesting character! His background lore has so much potential, it's a pity when we actually see him in game so far, he's just "that evil necromancer" and not much beyond that.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

An openly necromantic society could be interesting, but where in Tamriel could it peacefully exist? Is there a place where necromancy might be viewed as just another branch of magic rather than the evil practice it's often presented as?

They could just invent some new remote island no one ever heard of before?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, I hope not!

Actually, it's a little confusing. When Nirn was sucked into Coldharbor, all those settlements that we found there... I mean, that was fine, wasn't it? They could have been from anywhere on the continent, since we never saw the whole continent, and on top of that it was the beginning of the whole story. It was believable that those people and buildings could stem from somewhere on Tamriel. - But now, with the Reverse Planemeld? I mean, we saw all of Coldharbor in the base game, no? Then logically, only things we saw there could be sucked into Nirn now. So it might be Coldharbor 2 after all Well, I just hope that the original structures of East Solstice are more interesting, then!

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It's an interesting process and makes me wonder how many ideas-in-waiting they have by now.

They said it's quite some.

Generally speaking: I don't mind such a process (I mean, it's not mine to decide anyway how other people write their stories), it's always more a question of the execution. If done with care, there's no problem. If one gets too focused on some theme one wants to portray (or even some message one wants to present or a statement to make), maybe even bending lore a bit accordingly, the result might feel too obviously constructed. It also depends on the themes, of course; some might fit better with the established lore of a fictional medieval-ish society, some less. If I write a story, my focus is the world's lore first and foremost. But that's an individual decision.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I think the earlier chapters/dlc had more mystery to them, whereas later chapters started relying on "urgency, world-ending calamity" too much. High Isle certainly tried to have a mystery, but it was, shall we say, not very mysterious, and then it turned to super-villain after all.

It might just be the translation I'm playing, I don't know, but I personally feel a shift in style and themes, basically. Early chapters often had some literary feel to them (generally; not every single side quest, some of them on the more humorous side, of course), whilst later chapter's themes and writing style felt more mundane (not meant as an insult, but as the opposite of getting literature's big stories - basically more like real life, more worldly topics, not the classic literature tragedies). There's this distinction between "high literature" and "low literature" some people make; I'm a bit careful with that because some people assume "low" means "bad" - but it's not that. It's just the difference between, let's say (since we see these works referred to in the early chapters) Milton's Paradise Lost or Cervantes' Don Quixote on the one side, and some modern mainstream novel on the other side. They both are valid, can both be entertaining or showcase interesting ideas, people are free to enjoy both, either or none, but it's a different style and different themes. Let's say there's no "high literature" about obnoxious flirting (yes, the theme appears in all kinds of stories and even myths, but it's portrayed in a different way) or environmental protection In the end, it's a question of individual taste. I personally prefer stories that make you think a bit more and are more out of the ordinary. My way of thinking is just this: If I want obtrusive flirting I could just go outside, I don't need that as a fictional story. And for environmental protection, it's the same: I rather go outside and do something, if that's a topic I care for, instead of interacting with the theme in a narration. In fantasy narrations, I want to come across situations that are not part of normal real life for me. It' doesn't even necessarily need to be about being the great hero or all those huge threats, but I prefer situations I can't just come across in reality by leaving my appartment for 5 minutes.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I admit, I do get caught up in the urgency of the quests the first time I play them. My main character is invested in the story as much as he can be. It's only on subsequent playthroughs that I dawdle.

For me, it's a question of immersion. Sometimes it works well the way it is, sometimes I basically need to create this feeling of urgency in my own head (and I want that because it makes the experience more entertaining). That flirting in that Argonian ruin in Part 1 of the current story was a situation that broke my immersion completely. In that moment, it really was over. And since with completely shattered immersion I couldn't probably appreciate what might come next in that ruin (in the first playthrough, I didn't know what would come, of course, I expected something really eerie or dramatic), I logged off. Because I knew in that very moment, after I was shaking my head at that innuendo so much, I wouldn't have been able to be immersed in the coming scene, which would have been a pity for the possibly intense atmosphere. So I took a break first, and logged in again an hour or several later, already knowing what would come in dialogue, so I just ignored that and clicked it away, and then continued the story. To be fair, that was the first time something like that happened while playing ESO, and I've played all story content since base game (except for the trial and some group dungeon quests, and the quests in the Cyrodiil war zone), but it wasn't a good experience and I hope I'll not come across something like that again. Immersion is important. Breaking it with some "joke" isn't fun, at least not for me.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

My most recent person to go through the Fighters Guild quest killed her, too, but since my main is the one whose decisions become canon in my Tamriel, she's technically out there somewhere, roaming the land, guild-less.

Still, she'll most probably never return, unlike some characters that actually died

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I was thinking of some new weapon the Worm Cult would have brought in to kind of hook up to Mor Naril to power it. But, yes, if they're after something that's been there for a long time, it's probably ancient and easily unraveled.

I'm not sure why, but I often tend to think more of some "sleeping" creature. Or maybe that creature might just be some kind of visual embodiment of some magical energy, basically like the Mortuum Vivicus showed as an orb (or vortex, or what was it?). I just hope it won't be one of Molag Bal's and Vivec's children

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

A hub city wouldn't make much sense. I mean, not for crafting and dailies like that. I could see us setting up in a Stone Nest Xanmeer, but our attention would still be on ridding the island of the Worm Cult.

It wouldn't really fit, but I'm wondering they might not have something like that nonetheless for player convenience (Maybe some Stirk Fellowship camp growing over time? Like the Hollow City filled while you were questing in Coldharbor; just that in this case, people might not just move in, but palisades and shacks might appear over time?) - because if it's a bigger zone (and compared to ones like Hew's Bane or Bleakrock it is), people might want it and complain if there's nothing like that. And for reasons I mentioned I do consider East Solstice basically a seperate zone. Unless we'll be surprised and you can indeed seamlessly walk from one side to the other without any loading screen (which I don't think, because of the skybox problem; it's true that you can already walk over a country border in ESO right now, but you'll get a longer loading screen and it's seperate zones, and I think we'll see something similar on Solstice).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Every writer likely has their own process when they write on their own, but for ESO, they're collaborating. I've never done creative writing like that, but I would think that would alter my writing process at least somewhat, particularly if the setting and lore wasn't something I had created myself.

For me, it would probably depend on how vague or not the topic is as well as how culturally specific it is. If the theme is, let's say, "cultural changes", then that's a much more general theme than if I'd say I'd want to write a story about "a tonal generator malfunctioning and theathening the people" - then, a lot would already be predefined by background lore: Where do Dwemer cities exist? Where could a tonal generator have been excavated recently? Do we want to involve a new quest character or a returning one (or one of Tamriel's factions or groups), and if so, who might have the right background for that? And then it comes to things like cultural sentiments and morals, it gets even more complicated, because not all Tamrielic cultures would argue on a moral topic the same way. In fact, based on their specific culture, the outcome could be vastly different. Which then leads to the question through whose lens you'd want to show the story, or whether you might want to use the topic to show how different factions tackle the same thing in their own differing way. But I'm just babbling now

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

The writing has changed over time--I wasn't saying it hadn't. But I think the difference between the literary and mundane that you mention doesn't affect me as much. I appreciate the literary feel more, yes, and the less obvious stories and themes--they are more memorable, too--but the more modern/mundane stories are ok.

The thing I'm wondering about is whether it's an intentional shift driven by the wish to appeal to more players. Maybe there's the idea that something closer to real life would be more relatable to people? And I think, for some people it might be. But when you've also got players who really dislike that and want expecially fantasy fiction to be very different to their everyday real world experience, be it out of the wish for escapism or just because they enjoy exploring foreign concepts and find (fantasy) fiction a wonderful medium for that. Now, you can't cater to everyone, of course, especially if there are completely contrary wishes. Well, I'm just wondering what caused the change and how well-received it actually is. Since usually, in polls, the biggest praise I see is still for the base game and first few chapters, before the shift to the more modern or mundane topics.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

The flirting option didn't bother me to the extent that it did you. I did think it was an odd place for it, but in any case my character was never going to flirt with Razum-dar anyway, so I just chose a different option. I think that particular quest would have been better off without the flirting option, but it didn't break my immersion for the beat of the story we were there for.

I think I just focused a lot on that atmophere: the danger, the urgency, the "we're sneaking through an ancient abandoned ruin now". The effect that line had was basically like... if you're in a silent room, fully focused on some task that needs concentration, and somebody suddenly slams the door. That might get me jumping, but not only that, the concentration would be gone for some time, To get back into the same mode of concentration would take a while. I could decide to continue nonetheless; I would still get it done, but the result is just better without any disturbances or only half of the attention.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

They did mention in one of the lore books "awakening" Mor Naril, didn't they? That does give sleeping creature vibes.

I think so. It's rather vague, though. It could also be a machine that begins to function again, or some magicka streams that re-start flowing after everything was dormant in that ruin for many centuries. What ever it is, it might need some energy to be restarted or "awaken".

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

The Vivicus was a big, glowing orb. Orbs are the go to shape for magical energy

Which reminds me of these things now:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Feast
The way they translated their name in German is extremely funny since they used a rather outdated (and today mostly humorous) term for something really tasty (basically like "delicacy" or "treat"), which doesn't only have a funny sound, but also carries connotations of merriment and happiness - more so than the term "feast". I actually like they chose that translation because it's just horribly amusing in that context - floating around to feed some dangerous daedric being (Or Kinlord Rilis - how did he become daedric, by the way? It's so long since I've played that story).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

As to the spawn of Molag Bal and Vivec...have we ever encountered one of them?

Well, we need to keep in mind that the description is highly symbolic and Vivec even refers to a sword and to Baar Dau as his alleged children (so basically real things - at times at least - , although one can doubt he actually gave birth to them). But some had a beastly form and the story says they had become too dangerous for the world, so Vivec had to kill them. With Necrom, we got this statue with the sewered hand of Gulga Mor Jil:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-misc-Necrom_Vivec_Statue.png
And there's also a dreugh population near Gnisis that allegedly is the offspring of Vivec's dreugh child The Ruddy Man.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, having watched (and enjoyed) the livestream, I now know it's one zone, no loading screen between.
The stream did get me excited for the wall event and part 2 of the story. Here are a few points that struck me.
1. Continuous zone, in which the sky does change above certain areas. At least, it did get threatening dark when they went to a part that had been Coldharbourized.

The whole thing is less coldharborized than I thought. I was surprised that there are lots of locations that don't seem very threatening, but really just like an extention of West Solstice (which then probably means there will be a bigger variety of quest topics). I was also astounded that there were several Altmer structures/buildings of some kind. I had imagined East Solstice as more of a dense jungle with mostly Argonian Stone Nest xanmeers (less explored, more remote, with the landscape generally being more primordial - at least I got that impression from dialogues and lorebooks in Part 1), also very affected by the Worm Cult and the Reverse Planemeld, with an entirely, well, darker and more dangerous atmosphere. So far it didn't seem very urgent somehow, and I'm not entirely sure what to think about that - but I'm not someone who makes judgements before having explored things in detail, so I'm curious how the story will go.

Syldras wrote: »

In terms of world design, some places really look awesome. Mor Naril indeed looks very ominous (and huge!) - even if you just pass by, it's creepy somehow. Other buildings or delve interiors also looked beautiful, including that one delve we already got a screenshot for when they announced the whole season months ago

When it comes to the variety of architectural styles, I'm curious how that will work for me in terms of general atmosphere. Don't get me wrong: I'm curious and I don't want to complain about beautifully built places. I'm just wondering whether a more consistent style and atmosphere for the whole region might have been more powerful in inducing a certain feeling. If we look at the daedric realms, for example, they all have a very distinctive atmosphere. Even if there's a split between two regions - like we saw in the Deadlands or in Apocrypha - , it was a very clear-cut split and they were consistent in design within their area, while the impression for East Solstice seems more scattered (at least during the stream). I'm curious how that will work for me.

Syldras wrote: »

What we saw also made me wonder again how long the Worm Cult might have already been there. They seem to have quite a lot of buildings there, after all - unless those are of older origin (there have always been enough necromancers on that island to build something with bone adornments, I guess). And then there's that player house... Ah well, you could also buy a house in the Deadlands, after all!

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

2. More quest options that might actually change quest outcomes, even including the possibility of failure. They said they really leaned into the player response options.
3. More recognition from npcs of what our characters have done, which is always nice.
Mostly I appreciated what they said about player choice in quests and it has me hoping for a more dynamic story and more interesting questing.

Yes, that sounded awesome! I'm wondering how detailed it will be and how much it will go beyond those quest choices we saw back then in the base game. Some of these quests also had a horrible ending, depending on what decision you made, after all (the prime example for me are still the Forbidden Crypts with those cannibals in them). In any way, very much appreciate that they focused on choices in questing and more dialogue options. That's wonderful news for roleplayers and generally story-focussed players.

It also caught my attention that they emphasized how there will be (at least two, I think) different endings for the main questline this time - for the first time in ESO, they said. You can make a choice. And of course I wondered immediately what choice that might be.

Would the choice whether to swap Darien for Gabrielle in the end be such a great difference that you'd consider it "two different endings"? Or whether to sacrifice someone or not (of course I'd never sacrifice Vanny, don't worry)? It's not new in ESO either that we got to choose, although usually in side quests so far, whether to save someone or not, or whom of several individuals to save or to sacrifice. Thinking of those two merged people in Coldharbor, or the story of Shazah and Khali. Or that situation with the Earth-Turner family. And the choice whether to let Mannimarco run free or not also isn't exactly a new one

If it's about siding with someone, that would be something that would happen earlier in the story and not just at the end, right? Still, I did wonder, but my ideas might be very much influenced by our discussions here, of course, whether the question will be about how to handle Mannimarco. Well, beyond letting him go or not - more like defining our stance towards him. Because then that might actually led to transitioning his character type more to how he was in Daggerfall.

As for how that matters, if it's the end of the story...? It only makes a difference if we interact again in a later story, doesn't it? Which then leads to the question how the game would handle that - beginning a story with entirely different stances between factions, some players still being enemies with the Worm Cult and others having a more open stance and a willingness to cooperate? That would basically be almost two completely different stories then. Not that I wouldn't appreciate that, quite the opposite! It just sounds like lots of work to get that done.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

But I like writing process babbling!

Now if we only got the actual writers to babble with us It would be interesting! I'd especially love to talk to the Corelanya Manor person (or people, if several people worked on it).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

There might have been a conscious choice to bring in more relatable (or what is perceived as relatable) topics and try to make them fit within the world, with varying levels of success. It's really hard to say what either the intent was or the audience reception of it. I've seen people say they don't want anything that approaches "real world topics" to show up in game, and I've seen people praise those stories. And, of course, I only see what people say on these forums, which is a small percentage of the player base.

I have the impression that some people also tend to label things they dislike as "real world", despite being more universal and not modern time topics. My personal stance is that it always really depends on whether something is plausible for the game world with its cultural lore or not. A problem ensues if it doesn't feel it fits into the world. Let's take the good old "environmental protection" topic. I see it's an important topic today in reality, and that one might think it's something especially younger people care a lot about and a topic they appreciate and enjoy seeing in fiction too - but that's not the question for me. The question is whether it fits the medieval-ish world we see in ESO. And the way they did it, it just didn't feel like an organic part of that world to me, but more like "We want to adress that topic, so we put it in somehow". And that's a thing I personally dislike, even if the portrayed topic is something I might care for in real life. But just because I care for something I don't need to see that topic everywhere in the media I engage with, and especially not if it feels artificially grafted into that world. I know there are also people who just dislike a topic and don't want to bothered by it, but that's not even in case for me. I just care for lore consistency and plausibility. If it feels plausible for the world, and is done with the neccessary care, any topic can be adressed; I might find some topics more interesting and others less, but there's nothing I'm generally averse to.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I understand why it took you out of the scene and was jarring to you; it just didn't have that effect on me, is all. Part of that was my impression that we weren't trying to sneak anywhere--we were going in to bust some heads and grab the gift of death before the Worm Cult could. It's interesting to me that the same quest text can be interpreted differently, or evoke a different impression/feeling in players.

In my case it might not be so much about text interpretation - just about how differently people tackle tasks. Part of my immersion and roleplay behavior is that I'd do what I (or my character) would find reasonable to do - in the scope it's possible to choose that in this game. And you won't ever see me running into some ruin that's ancient and possibly unstable. That's not ruin-safe behavior

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Sometimes I think these things are left vague on purpose so the reveal can be whatever they decide on later. After seeing Mor Naril (or glimpsing it, to be more accurate) on the stream, it wouldn't surprise me if all kinds of things were in there.

I was surprised by how huge it looks. Of course I took a screenshot



There's an Anchor above it. There are daedric titans flying. Although I'd say the most stuff we see there are the recent Worm Cult fortifications - actual Mor Naril seems to be whatever spiky crystal stuff there is high above. It's still strange, by the way, thatt you see nothing of that from the West, despite that mountain or whatever it is looking extremely huge.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Hmm, from what I recall, he didn't become daedric; he just bargained to learn daedric magic.

Oh, he was, in Banished Cells 2:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:High_Kinlord_Rilis_(Banished_Cells_II)

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Of course the Warrior Poet killed them all. Of course he did. Then he probably wrote a long sermon about it. Long and convoluted.

He did, and I honestly find his sermons interesting. In a way it makes sense that as the "god" of his realm, he might want to portray himself as the father (and mother) of all kinds of things that exist in this realm. There are all kinds of creation myths in the real world, so this isn't even the strangest one I've come across.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I was expecting more Coldharbour, too, but am pleased to be wrong in this case. I did wonder if the Altmer structures were somehow from before the time of the treaty, when the Altmer were still trying to colonize the entire island. I know at one point they got pushed out of the eastern side, or left the eastern side to the native Argonians.

For something old, they looked rather clean and well-maintained. Generally, not much there actually looked like wilderness. Normally, you'd have plant overgrowth in just a few years.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I think it's hard to know how dangerous a place might be when all we see is someone riding quickly through the landscape with whatever developer code/cheat they have on to make themselves not get attacked. I think the sense of urgency will come with the quests (or not, depending).

Oh, I don't know of course, but I found it partially strangely peaceful looking? I didn't expect that.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I think coming across some Coldharbour sections in a otherwise tropical area will actually create more tension than not, because it will be more out of place and wrong. Like the Wildburn in West Weald.

I think I might actually just walk around on PTS a bit next week. Not even questing, just looking around. I'll probably state my impressions here then - spoilerfree.

Syldras wrote: »

Strangely, the Wildburn somehow reminded me of photographs of WW1. Because that's what was left of the fields and forest of Ypres and other places: just mud and tree stumps. But I have strange associations at times.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I did wonder that, too. I was noticing some of the bone decor and thinking: who put those up? Obvious answer: Worm Cult. Not so obvious is when. And also why. Well, I guess they thought they were going to be there a good long while; may as well decorate.

They have huge structures there. Even in a world with magic, it must have taken a while building all that - years, maybe even over a decade - , especially considering they aren't such a big group of people (or shouldn't be - I still think that necromancers aren't that common, no matter in which Tamrielic society).

I'm wondering why no one noticed earlier? The Wall appeared just recently, after all. So people must have come across these buildings, but no one wondered what it's about?! Unless those structures might not be of Worm Cult origin, but much older. Just ruins now reused by the Worm Cult, basically. Then they might have not drawn any attention, if those buildings had already been there for centuries.