Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
BretonMage wrote: »If they reverted the nerf to lightning staff HA AOE, wouldn't that make Oakensoul more competitive with the Arcanist beam?
Destro Staff was wildy OP compared to all other heavy attack builds, this one build/playstyle should not throne over everything else as hard as it does.
BretonMage wrote: »If they reverted the nerf to lightning staff HA AOE, wouldn't that make Oakensoul more competitive with the Arcanist beam?
Also others have mentioned (on this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/677186/proposed-change-to-oakensoul) possibly allowing backbar passives to work on Oakensoul, or for minor versions of buffs to be reverted to their major versions.Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
Actually, it looks like subclassing will give other builds the means to achieve the passives that Oakensoul has, giving Oakensoul an even bigger relative nerf. I think it needs buffs to compete with subclassed builds.
Release oakensoul was beyond broken. Pure classes are getting nerfed in the name of subclassing, buffing oakensoul to compete with subclassing is a very greedy take, so is reverting the destro staff nerf. Destro Staff was wildy OP compared to all other heavy attack builds, this one build/playstyle should not throne over everything else as hard as it does.
Oakensoul still deals more then enough damage to complete all content, this mythic should have some drawbacks not just slap it on and forget about everything else. Its not just the damage but the survivability too.
Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
Your idea of all content and mine differ. All solo content, yes.
BretonMage wrote: »If they reverted the nerf to lightning staff HA AOE, wouldn't that make Oakensoul more competitive with the Arcanist beam?
Yes it would, but I don't expect ZOS to do that because Arcanist is a paid class and lightning staff passives are free. After all, they only nerfed lightning staff channeled AoE to push everyone into their paywalled accessibility class when it released.Destro Staff was wildy OP compared to all other heavy attack builds, this one build/playstyle should not throne over everything else as hard as it does.
The answer to this could have been to make heavy attacks for weapon skill lines channeled multi-hits via an optional passive, rather than shaving the majority of the lightning staff's AoE off.
Frankly, the way lightning staff's HA AoE works now - tied 100% to the fully charged hit - sucks. Heck, people would've accepted the tic AoE damage being nerfed by 50-75% rather than removed completely, because at least then it would still be useful in AoE scenarios.
Your idea of all content and mine differ. All solo content, yes.
Dlc HM's is also incredibly easy on 1 bar heavy attack but very boring. Its argusbly easier even then 2 bars, since you dont have to worry about incomming damage at all.
All i do is 1t 3dd dlc Hardmodes on repeat. (stone garden, scriveners, earthen root, oathsworn pit, bedlam, coral aerie, etc) the ones that gives u motifs u can sell for good money
All vet trials should be an incredibly easy clap with 8 oakensorcs if you wanted to, some HM's on trials i wont go into since im not that big of a trial guy, but put 8 end game harmode players on an oakensorc build they will probably crush it.
Hyperioxes have soloed vCA hardmode on heavy attack build, although with pale order instead.
There rlly isnt much you cant do in this game on an oakenbuild.
We all get to eat dirt in the name of subclassing.
francesinhalover wrote: »
Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
So for PvE, you’re right, Oakensoul is still fine for all of that content … but … for PvP, Noooo, Oakensoul has quickly fallen behind.
The issue is that subclassing has raised the bar on PvP builds. Not globally but definitely across the metas. Subclassing as confined the metas and slightly elevated them by enabling builds to slot combinations of mechanics that previously were unavailable and, in the opinion of most, shouldn’t be accessible.
Subclassing has enabled players to avoid aspects of diminishing returns or the “play vs counterplay” aspect across the metas. This leaves Oakensoul even further behind because those builds have fewer slots and flexibility to elevate their build.
Oakensoul is still feasible in PvE because it offers some of the most beneficial PvE buffs in the game; freeing up slot space to get them. But in PvP, those PvE buffs are still in play but are not at all relevant.
Think about it, anyone running NB’s Shadow line and Sorcs Storm Calling line already get the biggest PvP buffs that Oakensoul offers and only have to use 2 bar slots! One of those abilities doesn’t even require a trigger, only to be slotted; but those abilities go a step farther than Oakensoul by providing either persistent healing or more flexibility by playing into the skill line passives.
Oakensoul either needs a perma change to its stats, OR, what I would recommend would be that when Battle Spirit isn’t active Oakensoul stays as it is now, but when Battle Spirit is active the PvE specific buffs are replaced with ones more relevant to PvP; I’d suggested named buffs relating to: Healing received, health pool, or additional damage reduction.
The reason I say that is because the mechanics that meta builds are pairing with subclassing are making high crit damage dealers even more durable than they were before and that’s a problem. Oakensouls major lack in PvP is durability.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
So for PvE, you’re right, Oakensoul is still fine for all of that content … but … for PvP, Noooo, Oakensoul has quickly fallen behind.
The issue is that subclassing has raised the bar on PvP builds. Not globally but definitely across the metas. Subclassing as confined the metas and slightly elevated them by enabling builds to slot combinations of mechanics that previously were unavailable and, in the opinion of most, shouldn’t be accessible.
Subclassing has enabled players to avoid aspects of diminishing returns or the “play vs counterplay” aspect across the metas. This leaves Oakensoul even further behind because those builds have fewer slots and flexibility to elevate their build.
Oakensoul is still feasible in PvE because it offers some of the most beneficial PvE buffs in the game; freeing up slot space to get them. But in PvP, those PvE buffs are still in play but are not at all relevant.
Think about it, anyone running NB’s Shadow line and Sorcs Storm Calling line already get the biggest PvP buffs that Oakensoul offers and only have to use 2 bar slots! One of those abilities doesn’t even require a trigger, only to be slotted; but those abilities go a step farther than Oakensoul by providing either persistent healing or more flexibility by playing into the skill line passives.
Oakensoul either needs a perma change to its stats, OR, what I would recommend would be that when Battle Spirit isn’t active Oakensoul stays as it is now, but when Battle Spirit is active the PvE specific buffs are replaced with ones more relevant to PvP; I’d suggested named buffs relating to: Healing received, health pool, or additional damage reduction.
The reason I say that is because the mechanics that meta builds are pairing with subclassing are making high crit damage dealers even more durable than they were before and that’s a problem. Oakensouls major lack in PvP is durability.
Plenty of Mythics are better in PvE than PvP and vice versa. Plenty of Mythics are good for nothing at all.
It's fine as it is.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Pretty sure subclassing in itself makes oakensoul stronger? Really not seeing the argument for buffing it more.
So for PvE, you’re right, Oakensoul is still fine for all of that content … but … for PvP, Noooo, Oakensoul has quickly fallen behind.
The issue is that subclassing has raised the bar on PvP builds. Not globally but definitely across the metas. Subclassing as confined the metas and slightly elevated them by enabling builds to slot combinations of mechanics that previously were unavailable and, in the opinion of most, shouldn’t be accessible.
Subclassing has enabled players to avoid aspects of diminishing returns or the “play vs counterplay” aspect across the metas. This leaves Oakensoul even further behind because those builds have fewer slots and flexibility to elevate their build.
Oakensoul is still feasible in PvE because it offers some of the most beneficial PvE buffs in the game; freeing up slot space to get them. But in PvP, those PvE buffs are still in play but are not at all relevant.
Think about it, anyone running NB’s Shadow line and Sorcs Storm Calling line already get the biggest PvP buffs that Oakensoul offers and only have to use 2 bar slots! One of those abilities doesn’t even require a trigger, only to be slotted; but those abilities go a step farther than Oakensoul by providing either persistent healing or more flexibility by playing into the skill line passives.
Oakensoul either needs a perma change to its stats, OR, what I would recommend would be that when Battle Spirit isn’t active Oakensoul stays as it is now, but when Battle Spirit is active the PvE specific buffs are replaced with ones more relevant to PvP; I’d suggested named buffs relating to: Healing received, health pool, or additional damage reduction.
The reason I say that is because the mechanics that meta builds are pairing with subclassing are making high crit damage dealers even more durable than they were before and that’s a problem. Oakensouls major lack in PvP is durability.
Plenty of Mythics are better in PvE than PvP and vice versa. Plenty of Mythics are good for nothing at all.
It's fine as it is.
No. Because unlike other Mythics, Oakensoul was intended to be broad-build oriented.
Other mythics are niche, and that’s the point. They’re made to complement specific roles or builds. Oakensoul is different, it’s not particular to any one role or class or guild. It carries a massive cost, the loss of an entire bar.
Before subclassing I wound agree but now, not with subclassing.
Oakensoul was added to the game to encourage and support one bar builds but it’s falling short.
Factually, I needs a buff of some sort.
I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
I don’t know where you’re getting that from.
Not only is Oakensoul intended to be broad use (non class specific), we can tell it was intended for PvP with the onset of the Oakenfathers set. It was put into the game as a direct counter to Oakensoul. So no, I’m not reading more into it.
As for what’s wrong with Oakensoul now; it’s not PvE, Oakensoul is fine in PvE, the problem is PvP.
Currently PvP is crit meta and Oakensoul users don’t have the build flexibility to compete with that; especially with subclassing. Yes Oakensoul gives buffs but it ONLY gives you buffs. Slotting abilities or skill line passives provide these buffs PLUS other benefits.
This wasn’t a big deal before subclassing because classes were limited to what they could slot based on their class. But now, with subclassing; classes have overlaps in PvP that Oakensoul users can’t match due to the lack of a back bar.
So the only way to fix that would be to adjust the benefits Oakensoul gives while in PvP. Hence, adjustments to the buffs only when Battle Spirit is active.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
I don’t know where you’re getting that from.
Not only is Oakensoul intended to be broad use (non class specific), we can tell it was intended for PvP with the onset of the Oakenfathers set. It was put into the game as a direct counter to Oakensoul. So no, I’m not reading more into it.
As for what’s wrong with Oakensoul now; it’s not PvE, Oakensoul is fine in PvE, the problem is PvP.
Currently PvP is crit meta and Oakensoul users don’t have the build flexibility to compete with that; especially with subclassing. Yes Oakensoul gives buffs but it ONLY gives you buffs. Slotting abilities or skill line passives provide these buffs PLUS other benefits.
This wasn’t a big deal before subclassing because classes were limited to what they could slot based on their class. But now, with subclassing; classes have overlaps in PvP that Oakensoul users can’t match due to the lack of a back bar.
So the only way to fix that would be to adjust the benefits Oakensoul gives while in PvP. Hence, adjustments to the buffs only when Battle Spirit is active.
Still not seeing the issue.
I also think it's quite a stretch to equate Oakensoul to Oakfather. Just because they both have Oak in the name doesn't really mean anything.
The other issue is just handing out random buffs to people in a competitive environment. Monsters don't object when it happens in PvE but other human players do - and for good enough reason.
Whatever someone's reason for using Oakensoul, it should not enable basically developer mode where you just console command yourself every buff in the game. We sort of had that already when Oakensoul launched and it was completely bonkers how broken it was. I remember getting zerged-down by like 60 AD in Ravenwatch spamming multiple Meteors per second on me because everyone had 100% Major Heroism uptime. We also had DKs out there with 100% Corrosive uptime immortality (which, in turn, got that skill nerfed into Oblivion for everyone else).
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
I don’t know where you’re getting that from.
Not only is Oakensoul intended to be broad use (non class specific), we can tell it was intended for PvP with the onset of the Oakenfathers set. It was put into the game as a direct counter to Oakensoul. So no, I’m not reading more into it.
As for what’s wrong with Oakensoul now; it’s not PvE, Oakensoul is fine in PvE, the problem is PvP.
Currently PvP is crit meta and Oakensoul users don’t have the build flexibility to compete with that; especially with subclassing. Yes Oakensoul gives buffs but it ONLY gives you buffs. Slotting abilities or skill line passives provide these buffs PLUS other benefits.
This wasn’t a big deal before subclassing because classes were limited to what they could slot based on their class. But now, with subclassing; classes have overlaps in PvP that Oakensoul users can’t match due to the lack of a back bar.
So the only way to fix that would be to adjust the benefits Oakensoul gives while in PvP. Hence, adjustments to the buffs only when Battle Spirit is active.
Still not seeing the issue.
I also think it's quite a stretch to equate Oakensoul to Oakfather. Just because they both have Oak in the name doesn't really mean anything.
The other issue is just handing out random buffs to people in a competitive environment. Monsters don't object when it happens in PvE but other human players do - and for good enough reason.
Whatever someone's reason for using Oakensoul, it should not enable basically developer mode where you just console command yourself every buff in the game. We sort of had that already when Oakensoul launched and it was completely bonkers how broken it was. I remember getting zerged-down by like 60 AD in Ravenwatch spamming multiple Meteors per second on me because everyone had 100% Major Heroism uptime. We also had DKs out there with 100% Corrosive uptime immortality (which, in turn, got that skill nerfed into Oblivion for everyone else).
It’s not a stretch at all, it’s literally in the 5 piece description! The more buffs a player has the harder the set hits! It’s not just the name it’s the legit set mechanics. If you read it’s pretty clear.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667833/oakfathers-retribution-amazing-crap-ok#:~:text=they have active.-,Gain 20 Weapon and Spell Damage against enemies for each,some opinions on Oakfather's Retribution.
Your experiences aren’t reflective of Oakensoul as a whole, in fact, Oakensoul doesn’t even provide Major Heroism.
Nobody said anything about giving players developer mode or every buff in the game; we’re talking about fact based balancing. Now players have the access to slot the most relevant buffs through passives or abilities with multiple benefits. Oakensoul doesn’t do that. Because of that Oakensoul users have to sacrifice either damage output or durability.
Prior to subclassing Oakensoul was fine but it isn’t anymore. Subclassing changed a lot.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
I don’t know where you’re getting that from.
Not only is Oakensoul intended to be broad use (non class specific), we can tell it was intended for PvP with the onset of the Oakenfathers set. It was put into the game as a direct counter to Oakensoul. So no, I’m not reading more into it.
As for what’s wrong with Oakensoul now; it’s not PvE, Oakensoul is fine in PvE, the problem is PvP.
Currently PvP is crit meta and Oakensoul users don’t have the build flexibility to compete with that; especially with subclassing. Yes Oakensoul gives buffs but it ONLY gives you buffs. Slotting abilities or skill line passives provide these buffs PLUS other benefits.
This wasn’t a big deal before subclassing because classes were limited to what they could slot based on their class. But now, with subclassing; classes have overlaps in PvP that Oakensoul users can’t match due to the lack of a back bar.
So the only way to fix that would be to adjust the benefits Oakensoul gives while in PvP. Hence, adjustments to the buffs only when Battle Spirit is active.
Still not seeing the issue.
I also think it's quite a stretch to equate Oakensoul to Oakfather. Just because they both have Oak in the name doesn't really mean anything.
The other issue is just handing out random buffs to people in a competitive environment. Monsters don't object when it happens in PvE but other human players do - and for good enough reason.
Whatever someone's reason for using Oakensoul, it should not enable basically developer mode where you just console command yourself every buff in the game. We sort of had that already when Oakensoul launched and it was completely bonkers how broken it was. I remember getting zerged-down by like 60 AD in Ravenwatch spamming multiple Meteors per second on me because everyone had 100% Major Heroism uptime. We also had DKs out there with 100% Corrosive uptime immortality (which, in turn, got that skill nerfed into Oblivion for everyone else).
It’s not a stretch at all, it’s literally in the 5 piece description! The more buffs a player has the harder the set hits! It’s not just the name it’s the legit set mechanics. If you read it’s pretty clear.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667833/oakfathers-retribution-amazing-crap-ok#:~:text=they have active.-,Gain 20 Weapon and Spell Damage against enemies for each,some opinions on Oakfather's Retribution.
Your experiences aren’t reflective of Oakensoul as a whole, in fact, Oakensoul doesn’t even provide Major Heroism.
Nobody said anything about giving players developer mode or every buff in the game; we’re talking about fact based balancing. Now players have the access to slot the most relevant buffs through passives or abilities with multiple benefits. Oakensoul doesn’t do that. Because of that Oakensoul users have to sacrifice either damage output or durability.
Prior to subclassing Oakensoul was fine but it isn’t anymore. Subclassing changed a lot.
The reason that Oakensoul does not have Major Heroism anymore is because it was wildly overpowered and was nerfed down to Minor Heroism. Precisely BECAUSE handing out these ultra-rare Major buffs for basically free was overpowered. It did not matter that you lost access to a back-bar because having permanent uptime on something as powerful as Major Heroism was way more than worth it. The exact same thing would be true for Major Berserk and Major Courage, etc. Those buffs are rare for a reason.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I love Oakensoul for the roleplay... Because going into battle with 1 weapon is much more realistic than spazz-swapping 2 weapons every few seconds.
The enormous combat disadvantage of using Oakensoul is backwards. It needs to grant a significant power opportunity to make it competitive and offset the losses.
There are lots of ways to go about it. One idea:
Nerf Empower from 70% to 20%, then add Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Minor Resolve.
Huh?! At that point you have basically every named buff in the entire game. That is worth way more than a back-bar slot.
What even is the "problem" that is being solved here? Oakensoul players can already do basically anything.
It doesn't sound like you've actually used Oakensoul.
Yes you lose back bar slots, but you also lose a ton of raw power. If you go Bow or Lightning Staff for example, you completely lose the ability to turtle on an Ice or SnB back bar, meaning you take a lot more damage overall. And vice versa, if you go Ice or SnB, you lose a lot of damage.
As it currently exists, Oak just gives you a handful of buffs that most 2-bar builds already have. Meaning you are making a big sacrifice without much reward at all.