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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Vengeance Test 3 Request
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AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »
I like theory crafting builds. MY BUILDS...that I come up with.
Vengeance takes away the many MANY builds I bring to the fight by "dumbing down" PVP to the lowest common denominator.
I've said it many times and I will say it again: All of you that love the simpler style of vengeance...where were you when RAVENWATCH was NO-CP + No-Proc????
All we had was people complaining about not being able to use the new proc sets. This will not fix anything. I know how to fix PVP balance, its VERY VERY simple , but no one cares.
REMOVE HEALING POWER SCALING OFF OF DAMAGE. Boom PVP balance fixed. No more high burst dmg 1 button full health self heals.
I played it and quickly dropped out after theorycrafting. The performance was horrendous, the builds absurdly unbalanced, and the player cap was tiny. At least when it was just no-CP it was clear what sets you can use (all of them!).
Vengeance fixes everything, which is IMO amazing from something that's just a performance debugging test. If you like Cyrodiil, you'll love having >3x the player population and having wars all across the map. That alone makes every sacrifice worth it. And it's just a test!
The devs made it absolutely clear, they said it over and over.
Vengeance fixes nothing. It's a totally different game than live Cyrodiil. ZOS is not dealing with vengeance as though it's just a test. Look at what they do, not listen to what they say.
Vengeance was literally proven to fix the lag and playercap issue. If you had played earlier on in eso the combat is much closer to the more clear and concise almost fighting game appeal that made PvP popular to begin with. Also zos is quite literally using vengeance as a test......MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
Vengeance isn't PvP in the traditional sense. It's more like templated PvE with other players.
People are not making the connection of how vengeance mode decouples PvP from the need to do any PvE in the game. Vengeance will be one of the last changes ZOS makes before shutting down ESO if it becomes mandated.
Vengeance is literally raw pvp quite literally in its traditional sense. Sorry it just doesn't have proc effect sets to crutch on.
Also funny to say considering live pvp is down to 5-6 12 man groups now adays....it is near the point where you might as well turn it into 12v12 bg matches.
No it wasn't. Lag and performance was HORRIBLE the last vengeance "test". Even with ultra dumbed down skills and no sets performance still tanked during the big fights. It's simply false to claim that performance was great during the last vengeance "test".3 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Vengeance was literally proven to fix the lag and playercap issue. If you had played earlier on in eso the combat is much closer to the more clear and concise almost fighting game appeal that made PvP popular to begin with. Also zos is quite literally using vengeance as a test......
~snip~
At this point it's clear they didn't play Vengeance for more than a hot minute if at all. Vengeance was super glorious for the couple of days I had the free time to play, and whatever they did in the backend and how they managed the skills put Cyrodiil back into a top tier PvP experience.
...For those couple of days I played. Because Vengeance ended, and we went straight back to the zombie that is Cyrodiil present.
Even just hard recoding the skills to untangle the years of spaghetti. You know how many devs and interns could been messing around in there over 10 years? At least as they go adding other systems like mundus and food and passives we may see more balancing done so bear haunch isn't the only food. Redoing passives and these other systems at the same time could be a good way of unpower creeping the game.
If all else fails having a vengeance server for new players and low cp players makes sense too. I'd even get onboard with not allowing u500cp players into Greyhost.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more3 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭AngryPenguin wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »
I like theory crafting builds. MY BUILDS...that I come up with.
Vengeance takes away the many MANY builds I bring to the fight by "dumbing down" PVP to the lowest common denominator.
I've said it many times and I will say it again: All of you that love the simpler style of vengeance...where were you when RAVENWATCH was NO-CP + No-Proc????
All we had was people complaining about not being able to use the new proc sets. This will not fix anything. I know how to fix PVP balance, its VERY VERY simple , but no one cares.
REMOVE HEALING POWER SCALING OFF OF DAMAGE. Boom PVP balance fixed. No more high burst dmg 1 button full health self heals.
I played it and quickly dropped out after theorycrafting. The performance was horrendous, the builds absurdly unbalanced, and the player cap was tiny. At least when it was just no-CP it was clear what sets you can use (all of them!).
Vengeance fixes everything, which is IMO amazing from something that's just a performance debugging test. If you like Cyrodiil, you'll love having >3x the player population and having wars all across the map. That alone makes every sacrifice worth it. And it's just a test!
The devs made it absolutely clear, they said it over and over.
Vengeance fixes nothing. It's a totally different game than live Cyrodiil. ZOS is not dealing with vengeance as though it's just a test. Look at what they do, not listen to what they say.
Vengeance was literally proven to fix the lag and playercap issue. If you had played earlier on in eso the combat is much closer to the more clear and concise almost fighting game appeal that made PvP popular to begin with. Also zos is quite literally using vengeance as a test......MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
Vengeance isn't PvP in the traditional sense. It's more like templated PvE with other players.
People are not making the connection of how vengeance mode decouples PvP from the need to do any PvE in the game. Vengeance will be one of the last changes ZOS makes before shutting down ESO if it becomes mandated.
Vengeance is literally raw pvp quite literally in its traditional sense. Sorry it just doesn't have proc effect sets to crutch on.
Also funny to say considering live pvp is down to 5-6 12 man groups now adays....it is near the point where you might as well turn it into 12v12 bg matches.
No it wasn't. Lag and performance was HORRIBLE the last vengeance "test". Even with ultra dumbed down skills and no sets performance still tanked during the big fights. It's simply false to claim that performance was great during the last vengeance "test".
That is a good thing though.....the test actual showed something. For us the problem is that we dont know if zos is toggling systems in the background night to night. Like are they enabling the achievement system one night or other hidden subsystems? Otherwise as players we can only think of the changes impacting us like how they introduced more group stacking effects like rapids or barrier, or resto hot aoe spam. Which most people attribute to be the main reason live is so bad.
As far as performance it played fine and my group only had a few stutters PCNA primetime, but was 4x the live population as far as zos tells us. We have to wait for the next data stream when they compare the actual performance. Otherwise its just anecdotal "oh my god the sky was falling i hated vengeance so much"
Atleast monetarily they need pvp players to have to farm gear, so unless zos wants to cut off their own limbs income wise it makes no sense to delete live pvp for the AS IS vengeance, its just not worth worrying about or crying over. At best we will end up with new skills and morphs that are coded from scratch with less decade old issues caused by random devs and interns messing around. We can assume if subclassing is going to stay we are bound to get a lot more rebalancing class skill wise. Considering the 3x power creep we saw, I doubt we are going to stay with all of the passives and slotted bonuses and extra effects on skills.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
Vengeance isn't PvP in the traditional sense. It's more like templated PvE with other players.
People are not making the connection of how vengeance mode decouples PvP from the need to do any PvE in the game. Vengeance will be one of the last changes ZOS makes before shutting down ESO if it becomes mandated.
The tidal back and forth between Keeps with swarms of players certainly felt like PvP to me.
I like theorycrafting and am torn between which I like better, but base Cyro PvP is so much more like PvSetvP with coordinated groups, especially with shared set effects.
(Also sustain sets are "proc" sets giving free damage/actions when you would have otherwise been out of resources.)3 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
Vengeance isn't PvP in the traditional sense. It's more like templated PvE with other players.
People are not making the connection of how vengeance mode decouples PvP from the need to do any PvE in the game. Vengeance will be one of the last changes ZOS makes before shutting down ESO if it becomes mandated.
The tidal back and forth between Keeps with swarms of players certainly felt like PvP to me.
I like theorycrafting and am torn between which I like better, but base Cyro PvP is so much more like PvSetvP with coordinated groups, especially with shared set effects.
(Also sustain sets are "proc" sets giving free damage/actions when you would have otherwise been out of resources.)
A lot of people who are anti vengeance are just taking vengeance as is vs live. In reality zos has to itterate and keep releasing content for us to buy. So any endgame vengeance campaign would have all the normal features of building. The question is whether the split of pve and pvp will make zos also split up the set system in the game. Maybe it would be better to not have pvp sets changed because of pve abuse, like with how pale order was gutted because trials groups ran it as a meme so they could drop healers.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
Vengeance isn't PvP in the traditional sense. It's more like templated PvE with other players.
People are not making the connection of how vengeance mode decouples PvP from the need to do any PvE in the game. Vengeance will be one of the last changes ZOS makes before shutting down ESO if it becomes mandated.
If Vengeance is PvE than what are other alliance players? Are they bot/npc? Thought getting played by player makes character player bot having gear farmed before fight.
How does „decoupling PvP from the need todo any PvE in the game“ turn PvP into PvE? It rather gets turned into PvE by farming Gear in PvE allowing you to slaughter players without that gear without outplaying them in actual combat making farming the gear in PvE the real challenge and the real PvP fight nuisance. Shown by some player insulting you as tryhard and tank when you manage to stay alive against them despite having vastly inferior build.2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭
The whole game including PvE got extremely laggy after maintanence half a week before Vengeance 2 startet so Vengeance 2 was still an improvement even compared to PvE.AngryPenguin wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »
I like theory crafting builds. MY BUILDS...that I come up with.
Vengeance takes away the many MANY builds I bring to the fight by "dumbing down" PVP to the lowest common denominator.
I've said it many times and I will say it again: All of you that love the simpler style of vengeance...where were you when RAVENWATCH was NO-CP + No-Proc????
All we had was people complaining about not being able to use the new proc sets. This will not fix anything. I know how to fix PVP balance, its VERY VERY simple , but no one cares.
REMOVE HEALING POWER SCALING OFF OF DAMAGE. Boom PVP balance fixed. No more high burst dmg 1 button full health self heals.
I played it and quickly dropped out after theorycrafting. The performance was horrendous, the builds absurdly unbalanced, and the player cap was tiny. At least when it was just no-CP it was clear what sets you can use (all of them!).
Vengeance fixes everything, which is IMO amazing from something that's just a performance debugging test. If you like Cyrodiil, you'll love having >3x the player population and having wars all across the map. That alone makes every sacrifice worth it. And it's just a test!
The devs made it absolutely clear, they said it over and over.
Vengeance fixes nothing. It's a totally different game than live Cyrodiil. ZOS is not dealing with vengeance as though it's just a test. Look at what they do, not listen to what they say.
Vengeance was literally proven to fix the lag and playercap issue. If you had played earlier on in eso the combat is much closer to the more clear and concise almost fighting game appeal that made PvP popular to begin with. Also zos is quite literally using vengeance as a test......MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
Vengeance isn't PvP in the traditional sense. It's more like templated PvE with other players.
People are not making the connection of how vengeance mode decouples PvP from the need to do any PvE in the game. Vengeance will be one of the last changes ZOS makes before shutting down ESO if it becomes mandated.
Vengeance is literally raw pvp quite literally in its traditional sense. Sorry it just doesn't have proc effect sets to crutch on.
Also funny to say considering live pvp is down to 5-6 12 man groups now adays....it is near the point where you might as well turn it into 12v12 bg matches.
No it wasn't. Lag and performance was HORRIBLE the last vengeance "test". Even with ultra dumbed down skills and no sets performance still tanked during the big fights. It's simply false to claim that performance was great during the last vengeance "test".
Vengeance Test 1 had practically no lag.
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ADawg✭✭✭Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
There is a test server
Forcing me to play ESO limited is annoying. I am a paying customer. My card is charged and when I log on to play I want to play MY BUILDS, not some elementary builds because 95% of the PVErs cant "figure out PVP". Its really not that hard.3 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
There is a test server
Forcing me to play ESO limited is annoying. I am a paying customer. My card is charged and when I log on to play I want to play MY BUILDS, not some elementary builds because 95% of the PVErs cant "figure out PVP". Its really not that hard.
Right, I want to login and play my characters with my build. Not ESO limited with the builds pre-approved by someone else who has no idea regarding the play styles I enjoy0 -
Darethran✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »
No it wasn't. Lag and performance was HORRIBLE the last vengeance "test". Even with ultra dumbed down skills and no sets performance still tanked during the big fights. It's simply false to claim that performance was great during the last vengeance "test".
You don't understand the difference between server performance and your PC's performance. Server side (action latency, server delays, skills misfiring, sudden load screens, disconnects) was so much better than live that it's absurd to say otherwise.
Now if you had heavy addons active like Harvestmap, particles maxed out, an intel CPU (vs a 5800x3D or better), running at 4k on a RX580? Yeah your game performance is gonna be yucky because that's a big task for your hardware.
Running a 5800X3D with an RTX Titan (2000 series), performance was great on my settings with maxed out draw distances even in big gnarly fights where there's easily over a hundred people fighting on the bridge south of Sejanus.
And no lag! It was awesome.1 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »
No it wasn't. Lag and performance was HORRIBLE the last vengeance "test". Even with ultra dumbed down skills and no sets performance still tanked during the big fights. It's simply false to claim that performance was great during the last vengeance "test".
You don't understand the difference between server performance and your PC's performance. Server side (action latency, server delays, skills misfiring, sudden load screens, disconnects) was so much better than live that it's absurd to say otherwise.
Now if you had heavy addons active like Harvestmap, particles maxed out, an intel CPU (vs a 5800x3D or better), running at 4k on a RX580? Yeah your game performance is gonna be yucky because that's a big task for your hardware.
Running a 5800X3D with an RTX Titan (2000 series), performance was great on my settings with maxed out draw distances even in big gnarly fights where there's easily over a hundred people fighting on the bridge south of Sejanus.
And no lag! It was awesome.
I am a PvP main. I played vengeance every day for hours even though I abhor the game mode and the questionable reasoning being given for it. It doesn't seem like a test.
No, the problem with lag etc. during the last vengeance test was in fact server side, not my connection or anything else. I spend more time in game and dealing with these issues than most. I have an RTX 3080Ti and a system to match it. It's absolutely not my hardware or connection, which I test first thing there are any latency issues.
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MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭I had next to no FPS issues on either test tbh, granted my pc is overkill now. My ping to the Dallas servers is only 45ms, so the only real issues stem from zos's side.
Test 1 had next to no lag or traditional issues we see. There were only some hiccups at that big chalman fight
Test 2 had far more lag issues, freezing, stuttering, input buffering loss typically only for moments......However it was still far better than live and with the population cyrodil should have. As far as us players know, the only difference was that more group tools were added in. Which is not surprising as we expect aoe, over time, stacking, cheap, spammable mechanics are an issue. Look at the state of live pvp, its a joke where coordinated groups were spoonfed mechanics and tools to win against solo and casual players when the game used to be the opposite. Its a design philosophy that has crippled the game. You can't help the most taxing population tax the server more and expect no performance change. (and ive done it all. pugged, pug zerg surfed, ran 72 man zergs, ran 12man coordinated ball groups, ran 4x smallman, ran duo, ran 1vX.)
Test 3 - I honestly don't see any reason why much will change with the added skills. I assume zos will be doing more background stuff that we wont know about.Edited by MincMincMinc on August 23, 2025 9:58PMWe should use the insightful and awesome buttons more2 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Here are the builds / playstyles on live right now:edward_frigidhands wrote: »Right, I want to login and play my characters with my build. Not ESO limited with the builds pre-approved by someone else who has no idea regarding the play styles I enjoy
Assassination turtle-burst
Rushing Agony pull-bomber
Support heal-tank
Anything else you try on live is a worse version of one of these, or relies on one of these to do anything. You can dress these playstyles up different ways but they will all play similarly and ultimately do the same thing in practice.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance5 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
There is a test server
Forcing me to play ESO limited is annoying. I am a paying customer. My card is charged and when I log on to play I want to play MY BUILDS, not some elementary builds because 95% of the PVErs cant "figure out PVP". Its really not that hard.
They already explained why Vengeance is tested on the live servers. Basically, it's about numbers and activity, with the tests on the live servers being a sort of final stage for that particular test. Something like this-- Phase 1 = testing with bots on ZOS closed servers; Phase 2 = testing with real players on PTS; Phase 3 = testing with larger number of real players on live. Bots can help test basic changes to get preliminary results, but they're nowhere good/fast enough to be a replacement for human PvP testers. And PTS lets human PvP testers put changes through the ringers to get more useful results than using bots. But PTS just doesn't have the volume of players needed, hence larger-scale testing on live is needed after the PTS testing.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!2 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »Vengeance had more players in queue the first few days than Grey Host, Blackreach and Ravenwatch together in Cyrodiil so it would get full even without closing GreyHost especially when most vengeance haters rather not play than Vengeance like they say all the time.
Vengeance haters as you call them, the most unreasonable players. It's been ages since PvPers have complained about lag, and the general state of abandonment of the PvP realm by devs. But the moment the devs decide to seriously engage with improving this aspect of their game, some players complain more and refuse to participate in testing things. This is by far the worst moment to desert. Players who have concerns about the future PvP in ESO should participate and give their feedback so they can voice their concerns and ideas, and maybe have an impact on the future shape of their favorite game.
There is a test server
Forcing me to play ESO limited is annoying. I am a paying customer. My card is charged and when I log on to play I want to play MY BUILDS, not some elementary builds because 95% of the PVErs cant "figure out PVP". Its really not that hard.
They already explained why Vengeance is tested on the live servers. Basically, it's about numbers and activity, with the tests on the live servers being a sort of final stage for that particular test. Something like this-- Phase 1 = testing with bots on ZOS closed servers; Phase 2 = testing with real players on PTS; Phase 3 = testing with larger number of real players on live. Bots can help test basic changes to get preliminary results, but they're nowhere good/fast enough to be a replacement for human PvP testers. And PTS lets human PvP testers put changes through the ringers to get more useful results than using bots. But PTS just doesn't have the volume of players needed, hence larger-scale testing on live is needed after the PTS testing.
Not to mention if they hired testers for this you are talking about double or triple Zenimax online's current employee count with temp workers.
Then you have a ton of testers that dont know the game and wont act the same way the real players act. We already see with MyM events when the servers get diluted with questers and PvE players that there are far less calculations because the Vet daily community spreads out and dilutes to other servers. Notice how recent low turnout MyM events were no different than the average day in cyrodil.....it lagged the same because it was the same playerbase. (Or just believe in the conspiracy that they boost the server for a week and purposely let us suffer while screaming the worst publicity to everyone who even glances at the game)
Also would you rather them keep this hidden from us and suddenly decide oh hey this worked, so all of pvp is now vengeance. Versus now we can participate and say, hey it is working except we want the other elements of the game back.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If I were ZOS, I'd actually do what the OP suggests and offer both the regular and Vengeance campaigns at the same time.
That way, they can be 100% sure which of these PvP modes is preferred by their customer base.
If all the "real" and "hardcore" PvPers are right and everyone ignores Vengeance and logs onto the regular servers, then ZOS will know they are wasting their time.
Though the OP needs to understand that Vengeance is not at all comparable to Ravenwatch. All Revenwatch did was remove proc sets. Everything else was still ESO's vision of post 2019 PvP, a PvP that has driven so many of its customers away from the game that they are desperate enough to do these Vengeance tests in the first place.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
aetherix8✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »If I were ZOS, I'd actually do what the OP suggests and offer both the regular and Vengeance campaigns at the same time.
That way, they can be 100% sure which of these PvP modes is preferred by their customer base.
If all the "real" and "hardcore" PvPers are right and everyone ignores Vengeance and logs onto the regular servers, then ZOS will know they are wasting their time.
Though the OP needs to understand that Vengeance is not at all comparable to Ravenwatch. All Revenwatch did was remove proc sets. Everything else was still ESO's vision of post 2019 PvP, a PvP that has driven so many of its customers away from the game that they are desperate enough to do these Vengeance tests in the first place.
Yes for the two modes, but only once Vengeance is complete. You cannot put Vengeance live rn, in the state it is in, and expect it’s gonna be everyone’s favorite. It certainly isn’t my fav so far (need more systems, and I only did the first round coz RL so don’t know if the variety was better during the 2nd round). It remains yet to be seen if it will ever be, although the potential is there.
Big no for two options during testing. Only Vengeance should be accessible so we can test those increased populations that are vital to Cyro’s success.PC EU0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »That way, they can be 100% sure which of these PvP modes is preferred by their customer base.
This is never really going to be the case for example:
A large group of players like to play on empty campaigns and faction stack 1 side to flip the map, does that mean ZOS should introduce single faction campaigns so that players can enjoy just flipping the map?
@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)1 -
Tigor✭✭✭Do not force us to play on the current Cyrodiil any longer. Vengeance testing has been the most amusing pvp for a long time.GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)3 -
Darethran✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »The current version of Cyrodiil is the worst thing to ever happen to Cyrodiil.
And vengeance was the best thing to happen to Cyrodiil (since the reduction of the PvP cap from OG release). It's wild people actually want a widescale PvP mode that is...not widescale.
In Vengeance, each faction had the same population as all the factions in live combined0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »That way, they can be 100% sure which of these PvP modes is preferred by their customer base.
This is never really going to be the case for example:
A large group of players like to play on empty campaigns and faction stack 1 side to flip the map, does that mean ZOS should introduce single faction campaigns so that players can enjoy just flipping the map?
That's totally different. You are talking about players who actively play on non-competitive maps that have nothing to do with the rules. Nobody is suggesting to ZOS that it should introduce a PvP system in which the objective is single faction map flipping
As much as I support the further testing of Vengeance, I think at some point it needs to be put in competition with alternative forms of PvP to see just how attractive the ruleset is to the community at large.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0