1.1 (Craglorn) Cannot support Solo / RP gamers

Phantax · May 2014

With Craglorn due for release we will see the first increase in player levels VR11+VR12 but what has just dawned on me is that this is going to put a massive handicap on those players who are Solo or RP gamers !

With the way the current VR levelling system is VR9-10 requires approx 4.3 million points. That means VR12 is going to require well in excess of 5 million points. BUT... where are these points coming from? As it stands we would have used up almost every available quest/point just to reach VR10 (there certainly wont be 10 million points spare to fill the next two level gaps)

It seems unlikely that nobody at Zeni realised that 2 out of the four player types (solo PvE, Group PvE, RP and PvP) would get left behind with no realistic way of levelling?

It'll be interesting to see how they handle this issue ???

NicoleOnyxheart · May 2014

well i remember the patch notes also saying that there's going to be a significant increase in VR points for quests and kills in PvE and PvP; also the enemies in cyrodiil are being raised to VR5 in the craglorn patch to my knowledge

Auric_ESO · May 2014

Phantax, let me ask you this....do you have the RIGHT to have access to all types of content no matter what type of player you are? If you are an RP-er do you have a right to be able to PVP on equal footing with PVP players?

Hmm, that's not the best way to put it. Lemme think....

How about should all content be available to all types of users. Like group dungeons should be solo-able too or can some content be aimed at certain types and other content be aimed at more solo players?

Phantax · May 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

Phantax, let me ask you this....do you have the RIGHT to have access to all types of content no matter what type of player you are? If you are an RP-er do you have a right to be able to PVP on equal footing with PVP players?

Hmm, that's not the best way to put it. Lemme think....

How about should all content be available to all types of users. Like group dungeons should be solo-able too or can some content be aimed at certain types and other content be aimed at more solo players?

In short... YES !
Everybody playing the game is paying their sub, so why should one group be left out.
Secondly you are trying to make it sound as if 'I' am asking for something. AS a player who loves group and PvP play I'm likely to lose nothing. However there are many people in the game (and on this forum) who quite obviously don't give a flock about other players.
I'm a big fan of this game, I want to see it succeed and for that to happen we have to act like a community. By that I mean support and stand up for each other, not just get all high and mighty like you just did. Maybe you should also think about the other people playing this game before berating somebody who is !

Auric_ESO · May 2014

I very much AM thinking about the game when I made my comment. I am thinking that craglorn is great for raiders and groupers of which I am not and thus dont expect to ever see and I'm fine with that. But when other content comes out like thieves guild and assassins guild content or pvp changes I will be cheering as its much more oriented towards me as I AM a solo-er and RP-er and eventually PVP-er. All I am saying is that each piece of content isnt for everyone and that its okay.

And if I came across as high and mighty my apologies, its written text and doesnt come with all the verbal and physical cues that would have let you know it wasnt meant as such. My apologies for not writing clearer. as you can see from my original post I was trying to find a way to say it properly.

ipkonfigcub18_ESO · May 2014

Phantax - I could not agree with you more but the fanbois of the game will never let this happen. To me when I hit V10 the game is done for me. I have no reason to continue playing after this. I will group up for dungeons that require a group when I want too. Instead we're being forced to group quest? No thanks, I'll pass.

Zenimax, like every game developer, loses its sites rapidly when their heads get overlarge by the fanbois - and yes I'm anti-fanbois as they ruin games faster than gravity.

Phantax · May 2014

You just got a +1 Awesome, not many people have the decency to apologise. If as you say, you are a RP/Solo player I'd hate to think you guys will have to wait 3 months before getting any meaningful content.

JD2013 · May 2014

Some don't want to team up, others accuse the game of there not being enough teaming up content. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Phantax · May 2014

JD2013 wrote: »

Some don't want to team up, others accuse the game of there not being enough teaming up content. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Oh I agree, can't please all the people all the time. But hopefully when Zeni release the next new content they can try to balance it out a little.

Niliu · May 2014

Dollars to donuts the area will be nerfed to some degree or another to let people play solo. Like all the group quests from Burning Crusade and Wrath that are now solo...

Auric_ESO · May 2014

Phantax wrote: »

You just got a +1 Awesome, not many people have the decency to apologise. If as you say, you are a RP/Solo player I'd hate to think you guys will have to wait 3 months before getting any meaningful content.

Dont mind waiting. Still leveling up my main and not even past 30yet so I have lots of time and I've been here since early access. And crafting and still working on that damn mages guild lore book thing. *grumble* No idea how people got v10 in like a week.

Ack! Forgot, thank you for understanding and hearing that I meant the apology. Too many close minded people around here.

Wavemoore · May 2014

This was my first thought when they announced that the Craglorn questing zone itself was designed for 4 player content. I have no issue with grouping but the problems I immediately see with this based on my leveling experience so far:

1.) Schedules vary within the guild, and grouping with the same 4 people to stay synchronized quest-wise will be very difficult.

2.) Quest phasing makes it hard to find people on the same stage of a quest as you. Sure, on day one it will be easy to find 3 other people to run with. After that, once everyone gets spread out, finding 3 others on the exact same quest steps as you will become more and more difficult.

3.) Let's face it, I like to play at my own pace. That's primarily why I'm a solo leveler. I love group content like dungeons and world bosses, but on a long leveling grind such as the VR levels, I tend to solo at my own pace. I don't think this will be possible in the new zone.

This to me makes getting beyond VR10 a true logistical challenge. I'm not on PTS, so maybe I'm missing some mechanics that level this out, but it is a real concern.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO · May 2014

ESO have hundreds of hours of solo content as it stands. As grouped endgame content goes, there are 3 dungeons that can be cleared in less than 20mins each. There is a glaring hole that needs filled and to be frank this should have been in the game from the beginning.
I understand where you are coming from, but i think its unrealistic to expect that no focus will be put on grouped content in a genre that is essentially all about interacting with others.
Endgame is a driving force in all MMO's to my knowledge. ESO will have to make an effort to approach the lack of it or too many people will unsub.
I can ofcourse only speak for myself and the people i associate with, but if Craglorn wasn't coming soonish we would just stop playing now.

Wavemoore · May 2014

When I think of grouped endgame content, I think of new, harder dungeons, world bosses, and raids (in this case trials I guess). But not actual questing zones. That's a progression gate in terms of leveling that I'm not too crazy about.

The other methods I mentioned are gear progression gates that I'm totally fine with. The top x% who put in that effort deserve the top rated gear. I've always held that opinion.

Gating leveling progression behind group content however is another issue. Hopefully it's not as bad as I am thinking.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO · May 2014

Wavemoore wrote: »

2.) Quest phasing makes it hard to find people on the same stage of a quest as you. Sure, on day one it will be easy to find 3 other people to run with. After that, once everyone gets spread out, finding 3 others on the exact same quest steps as you will become more and more difficult.

I have been wondering about this myself. Im hoping they will have a good solution for this.

Phantax · May 2014

Wavemoore wrote: »

When I think of grouped endgame content, I think of new, harder dungeons, world bosses, and raids (in this case trials I guess). But not actual questing zones. That's a progression gate in terms of leveling that I'm not too crazy about.

The other methods I mentioned are gear progression gates that I'm totally fine with. The top x% who put in that effort deserve the top rated gear. I've always held that opinion.

Gating leveling progression behind group content however is another issue. Hopefully it's not as bad as I am thinking.

Personally I'm looking forward to 1.1 I just hope it doesn't start to breed Elitism, especially since we're going to have leader boards. If we're not carefull its going to be Dalaran all over again. Gear checks and select friends only type game play. (which will make it even harder for any non-group players to catch up)

Geez... its a scary thought

Amfijakerwb17_ESO · May 2014

Im my eyes Craglorn is just an innovative way of delivering grouped endgame content. Im really hoping they pulled it off with this zone. But lets see, im not 100% confident in Zenimax by now

This subject is not made any easier with the decision of raising the level cap a month after launch.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

Nah , i would probably quit anyway , since being a templar was a mistake and im not willing to reroll DK , still im trying to get to vr10 (which means finish the story on all factions) with my char.

Then the solo content end and so will my subscription.

While i can understand the "endgame" for solo players in ESO i do think they made a mistake , other games add things to do everyday and to keep doing over and over , ESO just added a VERY LONG quest line , but you can finish it , it has an end.

kevjon74_ESO · May 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

Phantax, let me ask you this....do you have the RIGHT to have access to all types of content no matter what type of player you are? If you are an RP-er do you have a right to be able to PVP on equal footing with PVP players?

Hmm, that's not the best way to put it. Lemme think....

How about should all content be available to all types of users. Like group dungeons should be solo-able too or can some content be aimed at certain types and other content be aimed at more solo players?

In a perfect world with perfect designers, then yes, of course. Why the hell wouldn't you???

Rhoric · May 2014

They need to have content for both solo and group and current solo stuff needs and option for grouping.

Phantax · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

While i can understand the "endgame" for solo players in ESO i do think they made a mistake , other games add things to do everyday and to keep doing over and over , ESO just added a VERY LONG quest line , but you can finish it , it has an end.

Yes, we definitely need some kind of 'daily' questing added (and soon). AS long as they keep it varied and interesting. Zenimax should take a good hard look at Rift and GW2, there are two games that managed to get the 'Daily quest' thing done right !

tordr86b16_ESO · May 2014

They are increasing the VR point gain, so aoe grind to your hearts content.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO · May 2014

Phantax wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

While i can understand the "endgame" for solo players in ESO i do think they made a mistake , other games add things to do everyday and to keep doing over and over , ESO just added a VERY LONG quest line , but you can finish it , it has an end.

Yes, we definitely need some kind of 'daily' questing added (and soon). AS long as they keep it varied and interesting. Zenimax should take a good hard look at Rift and GW2, there are two games that managed to get the 'Daily quest' thing done right !

Agree. Looking back, Rift was actually a pretty damn solid game.

Jade1986 · May 2014

I have no problem with it being group oriented, what I do have a problem with is the way they are d oing this. they are releasing a new land mass, which I CANNOT explore unless I am in a group, that, that I have a problem with. If they want to make dungeons in that land mass group oriented, fine, but don't make the WHOLE land mass group oriented.

Phantax · May 2014

Craglorn is blocked entry to people not in a group ? (didn't realise that)
If that is the case then that sucks even more !

Sakiri · May 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

Phantax, let me ask you this....do you have the RIGHT to have access to all types of content no matter what type of player you are? If you are an RP-er do you have a right to be able to PVP on equal footing with PVP players?

Hmm, that's not the best way to put it. Lemme think....

How about should all content be available to all types of users. Like group dungeons should be solo-able too or can some content be aimed at certain types and other content be aimed at more solo players?

Im not one for the "I pay my sub so Im entitled" card but there hasnt been a sinhle game Ive played that didnt put solo/casual content iut in a patch that raised a level cap. More AA points? More levels? Solo quest lines.

Thats what I got out of OP too.

Our options for getting those two VR ranks is mob grinding. Thats... kinda bullshart.

Sakiri · May 2014

Niliu wrote: »

Dollars to donuts the area will be nerfed to some degree or another to let people play solo. Like all the group quests from Burning Crusade and Wrath that are now solo...

I solod most of those then.

Prot pally and warlock.

/flex

Who needs a group?

Ashtaris · May 2014

As mainly a PVE player, I don't expect all new content to be tailored to my playing preference. I realize that Craglorn is going to be great for the PVP players who are able to get to VR12, and I'm happy for all of those who will be able to participate. On the other hand, I also think it would be fair for ZOS to come out with some major PVE content, perhaps in the next content update after Craglorn. Like one of the posters mentioned, there are a lot of us PVE players also, and we pay our subs just like everyone else.

Jade1986 · May 2014

Phantax wrote: »

Craglorn is blocked entry to people not in a group ? (didn't realise that)
If that is the case then that sucks even more !

No you can go in, but the WHOLE area is dedicated to group players, as in, get in a fight with a mob, and die. You cannot explore the area without constant fear of death. If they would have made certain dungeons, like the group dungeons in the main game, that are separated through an entrance, it would have been fine. But as it stands now, I am getting a sinking feeling that half of tamriel will eventually be inaccessible to me due to having to constantly group. I have nothing against grouping, but they went about this all wrong.

Catsocks · May 2014

Phantax wrote: »

Craglorn is blocked entry to people not in a group ? (didn't realise that)
If that is the case then that sucks even more !

No, it's not. You can zone into Craglorn without a group. You can explore as a VR1. It's just the actual dungeon content itself that would require a group.

driosketch · May 2014

Help me understand, why can't an RPer group? I would think they would have the strongest groups.

Also, you can explore Craglorn solo, I have. Aside from beating some enemy groups, the only thing that seems to absolutely require a group are the trials.