New Mythic Concept item: Lariat of the Long Winter

YandereGirlfriend · August 8

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Might be too much with a warden and downside is negligible on a frost build.

That's the whole point, though.

Frost skills are inherently weaker vs. competing options. So if you commit to going all Frost then you're NOT taking best-in-slot meta abilities like JBeam, Beam, Bowproc, etc.

Even with the Mythic at +25% you wouldn't remotely close that gap. But you would become more competitive, which is what Frost enthusiasts want.

ArchMikem · August 8

Increase the damage by 50% and then you'll have me on board.

Noodle damage x 10% is still noodle damage.

ESO_Nightingale · August 8

ArchMikem wrote: »

Increase the damage by 50% and then you'll have me on board.

Noodle damage x 10% is still noodle damage.

5 extra seconds of duration shouldn't be underestimated though

ESO_Nightingale · August 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Might be too much with a warden and downside is negligible on a frost build.

That's the whole point, though.

Frost skills are inherently weaker vs. competing options. So if you commit to going all Frost then you're NOT taking best-in-slot meta abilities like JBeam, Beam, Bowproc, etc.

Even with the Mythic at +25% you wouldn't remotely close that gap. But you would become more competitive, which is what Frost enthusiasts want.

Agreed but with current balance you'd still take bow proc. I could make the downside more severe but i can't actually test it.

BasP · August 9

I really love the idea of the mythic as well as the codex entries you've written. Kudos!

As you said, its hard to see how balanced it would be without being able to test it (as a side note: I'd love to have a private, moddable ESO Server to play around with things like this). On the one hand, the 10% damage increase to Frost Damage is low. On the other hand, extending the duration of Frost Abilities by 5 seconds sounds pretty powerful - it'd turn Northern Storm into a great ultimate, at least.

ESO_Nightingale · August 9

BasP wrote: »

I really love the idea of the mythic as well as the codex entries you've written. Kudos!

As you said, its hard to see how balanced it would be without being able to test it (as a side note: I'd love to have a private, moddable ESO Server to play around with things like this). On the one hand, the 10% damage increase to Frost Damage is low. On the other hand, extending the duration of Frost Abilities by 5 seconds sounds pretty powerful - it'd turn Northern Storm into a great ultimate, at least.

Agreed. I pretty much lifted elfbanes bonus but changed it to frost skills. Since most frost skills are damage over times i figured it'd really amp up the power of the mythic.

SaffronCitrusflower · August 9

As described by the OP I think the item would be too OP, even as a mythic.

However, the idea of a frost oriented mythic is long overdue.

ESO_Nightingale · August 9

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

As described by the OP I think the item would be too OP, even as a mythic.

However, the idea of a frost oriented mythic is long overdue.

Not saying you're wrong but why do you think this?

Desiato · August 9

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

YandereGirlfriend · August 9

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

tomofhyrule · August 9

.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

If your metric for "good source of damage" is "run by all the top parsers," then I feel we should talk about how underpowered fire is because none of the DK lines are used either. In fact, if you're not running Fatecarver, Grim Focus, and Radiant Oppression, then you're super underpowered, right?

But nobody would ever say that fire is underpowered. Or lightning. And I can go onto YouTube and find a bunch of really powerful Frost damage-only builds.

Yes, ESO could have better balance. But trying to force one specific setup to be OP by buffing it to ridiculous levels isn't the answer.

Desiato · August 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

This says a lot about why you think a 25% damage boost would be appropriate.

It is part of the tank meta, yes which includes buffing dps for the entire group with high brittle uptimes.

Furthermore theoerycrafters for years made strong frost warden parse builds that were very close to the damage meta, both with and without frost staffs. Those are two off the top of my head.

The average eso player looks at a 10% boost in damage and some crit and don't see it as a big deal, but they actually are -- especially with how that crit chance synergizes with brittle. Add nunatak in PVP where all the tankiness has incredible value and it could definitely be OP.

YandereGirlfriend · August 9

tomofhyrule wrote: »

.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

If your metric for "good source of damage" is "run by all the top parsers," then I feel we should talk about how underpowered fire is because none of the DK lines are used either. In fact, if you're not running Fatecarver, Grim Focus, and Radiant Oppression, then you're super underpowered, right?

But nobody would ever say that fire is underpowered. Or lightning. And I can go onto YouTube and find a bunch of really powerful Frost damage-only builds.

Yes, ESO could have better balance. But trying to force one specific setup to be OP by buffing it to ridiculous levels isn't the answer.

Flame has been the Golden Child of the three "elements", enforced by the mechanics of the game itself, since basically forever.

I am definitely old enough to remember when Lightning and Frost Staves were instant deconstruction fodder for DDs because Flame was the only element that mattered. It is STILL the only element of those three with unique elemental debuffs (Engulfing Flames, Flame Wall, Encratis) that are used by every raid group (well, perhaps not Encratis) and that incentivizes stacking it. Before they were slightly rebalanced, Burning was THE status effect, and if you were using, say, a Shock glyph as a DD then you were very much doing it wrong.

Prior to subclassing, Flame was also the only element that you could even construct a full rotation out of without insane self-imposed nerfs. Gradually, bones have been thrown to Frost, but Shock is by far the most unloved element with respect to this in the current day, particularly if you're not wanting to be trapped as a petSorc or HA build (e.g. to be a proper Shock Mage).

I'd agree that better balance would be welcome (as I agree that the current Flame Staff tuning is underwhelming) but that means that Frost (and Shock) have equal seats at the table not once again as junior partners to Flame.

YandereGirlfriend · August 9

Desiato wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

This says a lot about why you think a 25% damage boost would be appropriate.

It is part of the tank meta, yes which includes buffing dps for the entire group with high brittle uptimes.

Furthermore theoerycrafters for years made strong frost warden parse builds that were very close to the damage meta, both with and without frost staffs. Those are two off the top of my head.

The average eso player looks at a 10% boost in damage and some crit and don't see it as a big deal, but they actually are -- especially with how that crit chance synergizes with brittle. Add nunatak in PVP where all the tankiness has incredible value and it could definitely be OP.

Winter's Embrace is definitely not the problem in PvP or even particularly represented. That would be Animal Companions.

Also, nobody is using Nunatak in PvP, either, because it is impossible to force skilled players to sit in a small stationary AOE for four seconds. Even if you Fossilized or Charmed someone inside of it you could get perhaps 2 ticks.

You seem to want Frost to stay in tank jail which is precisely the perspective that the Frost community has been trying to change over the years.

Navaac223 · August 9

Desiato wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

Furthermore theoerycrafters for years made strong frost warden parse builds that were very close to the damage meta, both with and without frost staffs.

The first one was in u42, when ice staves boosted piercing cold so it was actually the best weapon for a warden. Now, this parse wouldn't be possible

The second one is a highland/siroria build so of course it would get high dps. Sure, it's good, but a sorc would have gotten more dps

The main thing to look at, though, is subclassing : while meta builds have gotten way better, frost builds haven't really improved.. there's still only one frost damage line, and taking bone tyrant for ghoslty embrace (zos please give us back the cc on this one) doesn't make sense for parsing. You can't really subclass into another line without having to use non frost skills to deal damage, so frost DDs didn't get the huge dps increase everyone else has access to. That's why a 25% boost to frost damage isn't crazy, especially with a 10% debuff to the other damage types

BasP · August 9

tomofhyrule wrote: »

.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

If your metric for "good source of damage" is "run by all the top parsers," then I feel we should talk about how underpowered fire is because none of the DK lines are used either. In fact, if you're not running Fatecarver, Grim Focus, and Radiant Oppression, then you're super underpowered, right?

Ardent Flame is actually pretty great - this 178K DPS build with Ardent Flame, Herald of the Tome and Assassination is a good example of a build that uses it. And with the upcoming nerf to Grim Focus, it looks like Ardent Flame might be better than Assassination on builds with Fatecarver as well. See this 155K DPS parse on the PTS, for example.

When it comes to Frost DPS - I'm definitely no top parser myself, so I only did 158K DPS on the current PTS with that same Ardent, Herald and Assassination setup. It dropped to 149K when I swapped Ardent Flame for Winter's Embrace, though. While that might still be alright, I just tried to turn it into a full-fletched Frost Damage build with two Ice Staves as well and only did 129K DPS (and the sustain was horrendous to boot). Even with this hypothetical mythic, such a build would still be relatively bad.

ESO_Nightingale · August 9

BasP wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Yes, Winter's Embrace. Run by all the top parsers in the game! Oh wait....

If your metric for "good source of damage" is "run by all the top parsers," then I feel we should talk about how underpowered fire is because none of the DK lines are used either. In fact, if you're not running Fatecarver, Grim Focus, and Radiant Oppression, then you're super underpowered, right?

Ardent Flame is actually pretty great - this 178K DPS build with Ardent Flame, Herald of the Tome and Assassination is a good example of a build that uses it. And with the upcoming nerf to Grim Focus, it looks like Ardent Flame might be better than Assassination on builds with Fatecarver as well. See this 155K DPS parse on the PTS, for example.

When it comes to Frost DPS - I'm definitely no top parser myself, so I only did 158K DPS on the current PTS with that same Ardent, Herald and Assassination setup. It dropped to 149K when I swapped Ardent Flame for Winter's Embrace, though. While that might still be alright, I just tried to turn it into a full-fletched Frost Damage build with two Ice Staves as well and only did 129K DPS (and the sustain was horrendous to boot). Even with this hypothetical mythic, such a build would still be relatively bad.

Thanks for the tests.

ESO_Nightingale · August 10

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Sure. There is a gameplay justification that you're asking for. Firstly, like is commonly asked for, the mythic replaces the blocking bonuses on the ice staff for damage focused ones. Which by itself is already a reason to have a mythic like this. But that isn't the entire reason i made it. Secondly, it aims to promote a pure frost damage dealing build which despite your claims that "frost is already very strong" is not even close to competitive with other builds. Whether or not the downsides i gave it are strong enough is another question but that is the intention. Either way you look at it, this mythic aims to be used by people looking to play a pure frost damage build and to get more competitive numbers from it. I never said i wanted +25-50% frost damage done because i agree that that is too much. There are other mythics in the game that do more overall. Such as velothi and oakensoul. +10% frost damage done has already proven to not be as powerful as it sounds as piercing cold was buffed to 15% on the pts and it's still not insane. +5 seconds to all DoTs is a lot more powerful especially on ultimates, though outside of ultimates would have limited impact in pvp. -10% cost reduction on frost damage abilities is there because the game does not support pure resource builds, so it's there to make it a lot easier to run pure frost damage builds that inevitability will run into sustain issues given that 99% of frost skills are magicka scaling. These bonuses are all listed together due to the oppertunity cost of running this mythic and the limitations you have to impose on your build to run it.

YandereGirlfriend · August 10

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can imagine this being OP in Nunatak Winter's Embrace builds in PVP.

I don't really see the gameplay justification outside of the desire for frost themed high damage build. I like that frost and fire damage have different identities and mechanics that can compliment each other in group compositions.

Does there need to be more gameplay justification than that? mythics have been created with more niche purposes than this that see no play at all.

Yes, I think there absolutely should be a gameplay justification for gameplay changes. Especially in a game in the midst of a gameplay crisis.

Frost is already very strong, even if a lot of players posting in this thread can't see it based on their recommendation of a 25-50% damage buff(!!!)

I think ZOS did a good job of making all elemental damage types relevant -- and in the larger picture, all damage types. I especially like how Frost is brittle themed.

Plus Winter's Embrace is obviously one of the best skill lines in the game.

Sure. There is a gameplay justification that you're asking for. Firstly, like is commonly asked for, the mythic replaces the blocking bonuses on the ice staff for damage focused ones. Which by itself is already a reason to have a mythic like this. But that by itself is not enough. Secondly, it aims to promote a pure frost damage dealing build which despite your claims that "frost is already very strong" is not even close to competitive with other builds. Whether or not the downsides i gave it are strong enough is another question but that is the intention. Either way you look at it, this mythic aims to be used by people looking to play a pure frost damage build and to get more competitive numbers from it. I never said i wanted +25-50% frost damage done because i agree that that is too much. There are other mythics in the game that do more overall. Such as velothi and oakensoul. +10% frost damage done has already proven to not be as powerful as it sounds as piercing cold was buffed to 15% on the pts and it's still not insane. +5 seconds to all DoTs is a lot more powerful especially on ultimates, though outside of ultimates would have limited impact in pvp. -10% cost reduction on frost damage abilities is there because the game does not support pure resource builds, so it's there to make it a lot easier to run pure frost damage builds that inevitability will run into sustain issues given that 99% of frost skills are magicka scaling. These bonuses are all listed together due to the oppertunity cost of running this mythic and the limitations you have to impose on your build to run it.

AFAIK Frost Torch is the actual only Stam-costing Frost Damage ability in the game.

But that skill is so bad on so many different levels that nobody would ever willingly use it as their spammable.

Which is less to you and more to all of the Frost Doubters out there that pure Frost definitely is crippling on sustain.

PureeEvil · August 10

why is there no "disagree" button? there are three "agree" buttons and no "disagree" buttons. It seems that you have to smile all the time on the forum, or you'll get banned.

lets calculate

3 skill from scribing with good ice damage (realy more skills but realy good its3)
15% damage from warden
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill - 44% in heare
5-15% from buffs.
so we get same dame damage what give arc laser or templar

lets calculate fire damage
5% from DK
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill -
5% from Ernakis or what name of that set. - 39% only

so ice damage can be powerfull on 5% and you tell ice damage havent some? its havent only low cost spawn skill what you can get from scribing. ice damage now one or powerfulls damage in game. about what you telling?

ESO_Nightingale · August 10

PureeEvil wrote: »

why is there no "disagree" button? there are three "agree" buttons and no "disagree" buttons. It seems that you have to smile all the time on the forum, or you'll get banned.

lets calculate

3 skill from scribing with good ice damage (realy more skills but realy good its3)
15% damage from warden
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill - 44% in heare
5-15% from buffs.
so we get same dame damage what give arc laser or templar

lets calculate fire damage
5% from DK
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill -
5% from Ernakis or what name of that set. - 39% only

so ice damage can be powerfull on 5% and you tell ice damage havent some? its havent only low cost spawn skill what you can get from scribing. ice damage now one or powerfulls damage in game. about what you telling?

you're looking at numbers at face value without any actual gameplay context. this is meaningless.

PureeEvil · August 10

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

why is there no "disagree" button? there are three "agree" buttons and no "disagree" buttons. It seems that you have to smile all the time on the forum, or you'll get banned.

lets calculate

3 skill from scribing with good ice damage (realy more skills but realy good its3)
15% damage from warden
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill - 44% in heare
5-15% from buffs.
so we get same dame damage what give arc laser or templar

lets calculate fire damage
5% from DK
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill -
5% from Ernakis or what name of that set. - 39% only

so ice damage can be powerfull on 5% and you tell ice damage havent some? its havent only low cost spawn skill what you can get from scribing. ice damage now one or powerfulls damage in game. about what you telling?

you're looking at numbers at face value without any actual gameplay context. this is meaningless.

ok lets look on actual gameplay context. all fire spam skill have nearley same damage with Wield Soul what ice bild can use like spam. for bonus that skill can be mostley cheap and have good debuff.

what els from gameplay context you mean? numbers tell ice damage in normal. numbers dont lie.

ESO_Nightingale · August 10

PureeEvil wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

why is there no "disagree" button? there are three "agree" buttons and no "disagree" buttons. It seems that you have to smile all the time on the forum, or you'll get banned.

lets calculate

3 skill from scribing with good ice damage (realy more skills but realy good its3)
15% damage from warden
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill - 44% in heare
5-15% from buffs.
so we get same dame damage what give arc laser or templar

lets calculate fire damage
5% from DK
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill -
5% from Ernakis or what name of that set. - 39% only

so ice damage can be powerfull on 5% and you tell ice damage havent some? its havent only low cost spawn skill what you can get from scribing. ice damage now one or powerfulls damage in game. about what you telling?

you're looking at numbers at face value without any actual gameplay context. this is meaningless.

ok lets look on actual gameplay context. all fire spam skill have nearley same damage with Wield Soul what ice bild can use like spam. for bonus that skill can be mostley cheap and have good debuff.

what els from gameplay context you mean? numbers tell ice damage in normal. numbers dont lie.

Numbers don't lie but they also don't tell the whole story. Builds that focus on using frost damage are not historically competitive with other damage builds, 1, because there's not enough frost damage skills outside of area of effect damage over time skills. 2, because the ice staff is not a weapon that is good for dealing damage and 3, investing into increased frost damage is not worth the oppertunity cost of not running a more meta set with weapons and skills that just do more damage.

Just because a spammable is cheaper and does more tooltip damage on 1 build does not at all mean that that build is overpowered. What matters is testing it's actual output over a long encounter.

PureeEvil · August 10

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

why is there no "disagree" button? there are three "agree" buttons and no "disagree" buttons. It seems that you have to smile all the time on the forum, or you'll get banned.

lets calculate

3 skill from scribing with good ice damage (realy more skills but realy good its3)
15% damage from warden
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill - 44% in heare
5-15% from buffs.
so we get same dame damage what give arc laser or templar

lets calculate fire damage
5% from DK
12% damage from lithning stuff
12% damage from maelstorm gun -
5% damage from ARC skill -
5% from Ernakis or what name of that set. - 39% only

so ice damage can be powerfull on 5% and you tell ice damage havent some? its havent only low cost spawn skill what you can get from scribing. ice damage now one or powerfulls damage in game. about what you telling?

you're looking at numbers at face value without any actual gameplay context. this is meaningless.

ok lets look on actual gameplay context. all fire spam skill have nearley same damage with Wield Soul what ice bild can use like spam. for bonus that skill can be mostley cheap and have good debuff.

what els from gameplay context you mean? numbers tell ice damage in normal. numbers dont lie.

Numbers don't lie but they also don't tell the whole story. Builds that focus on using frost damage are not historically competitive with other damage builds, 1, because there's not enough frost damage skills outside of area of effect damage over time skills. 2, because the ice staff is not a weapon that is good for dealing damage and 3, investing into increased frost damage is not worth the oppertunity cost of not running a more meta set with weapons and skills that just do more damage.

Just because a spammable is cheaper and does more tooltip damage on 1 build does not at all mean that that build is overpowered. What matters is testing it's actual output over a long encounter.

oh lol you run with frost stuff and whant see damage? get lithning, what the mater what light attak you have?
ice damage same with other now. ice damage batter in aoe burst damage then other.
need skill?
https://eso-hub.com/ru/scribing-simulator?combination=215731,7,34,64,5&utm_medium=website&utm_source=esohubcom&utm_campaign=share_button

https://eso-hub.com/ru/scribing-simulator?combination=217462,7,24,55,5&utm_medium=website&utm_source=esohubcom&utm_campaign=share_button

https://eso-hub.com/ru/scribing-simulator?combination=222678,7,24,57,5&utm_medium=website&utm_source=esohubcom&utm_campaign=share_button

https://eso-hub.com/ru/scribing-simulator?combination=217061,7,34,44,5&utm_medium=website&utm_source=esohubcom&utm_campaign=share_button

https://eso-hub.com/ru/scribing-simulator?combination=217228,7,29,67,5&utm_medium=website&utm_source=esohubcom&utm_campaign=share_button

wellcome. 5 ice damage skills with buffs/debuffs and sustane

realy youre words about ice damage is whorst then fire is wrong. you just need bild its correct. i havent now completley ice bild on eso hub with subclass update but i drop it here some late.

PureeEvil · August 10

Avid Boneyard - good burst damage from yreself sinergy
Tentacular Dread - good damage frost burst aoe with +5% of all damage up + upt status efect and efect damage from line

7 skills its Not enough for you?

The destruction staff line simply doesn't have any skills with similar power. Taking the frost staff for an ice damage build is like breaking it right away. You don't need the frost staff or its skill tree, as there's no place on panel for it in an ice build.

PureeEvil · August 10

more. ice bild now mostley stabil cose you have resist buff in warden frost line and good healing skill. so you get 3 dd line with out any compromise.

Navaac223 · August 10

PureeEvil wrote: »

Avid Boneyard - good burst damage from yreself sinergy
Tentacular Dread - good damage frost burst aoe with +5% of all damage up + upt status efect and efect damage from line

7 skills its Not enough for you?

The destruction staff line simply doesn't have any skills with similar power. Taking the frost staff for an ice damage build is like breaking it right away. You don't need the frost staff or its skill tree, as there's no place on panel for it in an ice build.

7 bad skills is still 0 good skills :
You're comparing frost to flame, so let me show the actual numbers (after all, numbers don't lie right ?) : boneyard's synergy has 2249 base damage and tentacular dread 2002. That's pretty good... except that molten whip (spammable unlike boneyard and costs hald as much as the frost skills you mentionned) has 2323 base damage (on top of being easily buffable with sreething fury)

Those skills are good, but not great
Fire has flames of oblivion, whip, fire breath, leap, deep breath... all of them great skills. Why do you think frost builds use reach/scribing to get their skills when fire builds use regular skills ? It's because fire skills are almlst always better. You don't see dks using fire reach as a spammable, do you ?

Navaac223 · August 10

Here's a fire build (for pvp), I hope your frost build will have better stats, since frost is so op

PureeEvil · August 10

Navaac223 wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

Avid Boneyard - good burst damage from yreself sinergy
Tentacular Dread - good damage frost burst aoe with +5% of all damage up + upt status efect and efect damage from line

7 skills its Not enough for you?

The destruction staff line simply doesn't have any skills with similar power. Taking the frost staff for an ice damage build is like breaking it right away. You don't need the frost staff or its skill tree, as there's no place on panel for it in an ice build.

7 bad skills is still 0 good skills :
You're comparing frost to flame, so let me show the actual numbers (after all, numbers don't lie right ?) : boneyard's synergy has 2249 base damage and tentacular dread 2002. That's pretty good... except that molten whip (spammable unlike boneyard and costs hald as much as the frost skills you mentionned) has 2323 base damage (on top of being easily buffable with sreething fury)

Those skills are good, but not great
Fire has flames of oblivion, whip, fire breath, leap, deep breath... all of them great skills. Why do you think frost builds use reach/scribing to get their skills when fire builds use regular skills ? It's because fire skills are almlst always better. You don't see dks using fire reach as a spammable, do you ?

wow wow wow buddy you comparing target and aoe skills now and thats wrong.

https://eso-hub.com/en/scribing-simulator?combination=215731,7,34,64,5&utm_medium=website&utm_source=esohubcom&utm_campaign=share_button

thats spam target skill from ice damage. ya its some weaker then Molten Whip but Molten Whip its Close combat skill havent breach and have muthc prase. some time you cant hit it if enemy get distanse. all that nevelate 500-1000 damage lost from Chilling Soul.

you cant tell scribing skill from my list bad with sereosley face.

ESO_Nightingale · August 10

Navaac223 wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

Avid Boneyard - good burst damage from yreself sinergy
Tentacular Dread - good damage frost burst aoe with +5% of all damage up + upt status efect and efect damage from line

7 skills its Not enough for you?

The destruction staff line simply doesn't have any skills with similar power. Taking the frost staff for an ice damage build is like breaking it right away. You don't need the frost staff or its skill tree, as there's no place on panel for it in an ice build.

7 bad skills is still 0 good skills :
You're comparing frost to flame, so let me show the actual numbers (after all, numbers don't lie right ?) : boneyard's synergy has 2249 base damage and tentacular dread 2002. That's pretty good... except that molten whip (spammable unlike boneyard and costs hald as much as the frost skills you mentionned) has 2323 base damage (on top of being easily buffable with sreething fury)

Those skills are good, but not great
Fire has flames of oblivion, whip, fire breath, leap, deep breath... all of them great skills. Why do you think frost builds use reach/scribing to get their skills when fire builds use regular skills ? It's because fire skills are almlst always better. You don't see dks using fire reach as a spammable, do you ?

Its very telling when all of the skills listed are from scribing. The only one that is actually good is chilling contingency.

listing chilling throw is hardcore trolling.